forzamilan90
Legend
federer still hasn't achieved the holy grail of tennis records. Beating Nadal at Roland Garros. Only Soderling can boast that, and it wasn't in the final.
This year's the year.
What will it take for Federer to get re-motivated?
- Thread starter zam88
- Start date
This year's the year.
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
Tired Djoker? This just proves you're wearing the rose tinted glasses. Novak got a day and a half of rest after a 3.5 hour 5 setter and he was tired? Novak played quite well in that final, it's just that Rafa was too good.
And complaining about draws is bs, Nadal's faced Novak at majors more times than he has Murray.
And how can you say Fed keeps getting Murray now that he's playing well? He's had ONE SF match against Murray in his whole career. Fed failed against Berdych at the USO LOL.
You're whinging about the draw BEFORE the tournament, I'm telling you that doesn't matter, in reality Federer has won 6 majors without facing a top 4 opponent. The draws panned out easier for him and I'm not blaming Fed for it, I'm just saying a fact is a fact and he had it easier. I know it's hard for you to accept the truth that your idol is a paper champion that has only won 2/17 majors by beating Nadal, but you're just going to have to face reality.
Povl Carstensen
Legend
The reality is that he has been in 24 major finals and won 17. Seems you have the hard time accepting.
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NatF
Bionic Poster
Apparently you have to beat Nadal for a major to count? Poor Federer, someone should have told him that when he beating the guys who slapped Nadal silly in the earlier rounds. He shouldn't have bothered.
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
I think Wimbledon 2012 should have stopped the day Rosol walked onto Centre Court....I mean, what is the point, right?
NatF
Bionic Poster
Yep, I don't understand why they didn't just had the winners trophy to Rosol, suspend the rest of the season and cancel the Olympics.
Povl Carstensen
Legend
5 of those at RG, its ok against a probable surface goat.
NatF
Bionic Poster
If only Federer had the chance to meet Nadal 14 times indoors and only 4 times on clay.
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
And the US Open, and the AO Open....Jeez
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
No, Baggy was worse and you know it. Not to mention Novak would've whooped Fed's arse anyway (Federer has never taken a set off Novak at plexicushion AO) and he was in worse form this year than last.
Oh so Fed took Gonzo out of his comfort zone? You mean like the way Berdych takes Fed out of his comfort zone? Good now you can't make that stupid Fed played like crap excuse then, it's not that he played crap, Berdych just took him out of his comfort zone.
Stop mucking around, Gonzo was definitely not playing at the same level in the final.
Federer faced exhausted Tsonga, Davydenko who fell to pieces and watch out... Andreev. Yes this man makes the draw really hard, the champion that is Andreev. LOL ok he's a bad match up for Fed but come on do you really think it's a big deal that Fed beat Andreev? That's like me saying RG 2011 was hard because of Isner in the first round LOL.
As for Murray, he played decent, but NOTHING like his QF form, that was his best match for the year.
No not useless in the final, it's just a nickname us Aussies gave Mark after we realised that to him "it's only a tennis match".
As for your numbers and crap, it's pointless, I already said it would be harsh to slam Fed's 03WIM draw since it was his first major. It's just part of the stat which is why I brought it up.
Oh watch out, major champion Haas was in form. LOL. Yes, never mind an in form Rafa, no, no, now his draw was hard, in form Haas was floating about.
Roddick cracked when it mattered most in that final and you know it. Had he hit that BH volley Federer would have 6 Wimbledon titles and that 15 jacket would've gone in the bin, but like a mug he misses it by a mile and then goes on to lose the next set TB as well before finally growing some balls against Fed and fighting his way back into the match. Only to crack again at the end.
Ummm, you do realise Sod was facing in form Rafa the next year don't you? Fed's 09 RG level is nowhere near the same universe as Rafa's level in 2010 RG. Rafa is the RG GOAT, when he's in form of course Sod's only going to play well in patches, that happens to everybody. Sod certainly did better against in form Rafa at RG than Fed did in 08
The only time Sod had something go his way in 09 was when that nutcase ran onto the court and distracted Federer's concentration.
Better in 09 LOL I shouldn't be surprised by your dumb trolling.
The way Fed was playing in RG09 Murray would've pushed him to 5 sets too, his form was that bad.
Yes it does. According to you *******s, Rafa's 2011 RG was easy because Fed took Novak out, so why should 09 be considered any different? The ballerina danced his way to an easy, cheap RG title. Fed could never beat his rival up there, whereas his rival stitched him up at his favorite slam. Honestly as a Nadal fan, if he had won Wimbledon because someone else took Federer out in 08, the title would feel hollow. The one dimensional pusher Nadal was willing to make changes to his game to beat his rival at Wimbledon because he realised to have any chances he HAD to. Super dimensional, multi talented Fed otoh didn't have the balls to change his gameplan with his topspin CC BH into the Nadal FH thinking it was going to get the job done lol. At least in 2011 RG he played more aggressive, but even with Rafa in bad form, he still couldn't even take 2 sets off him.
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
No, he didn't have to beat Nadal everytime to win a major, but out of 10 attempts he's only been able to do it twice. Which means he's LUCKY that he didn't have to face Nadal more often.
NatF
Bionic Poster
If he met Nadal outside of clay from 04-07 I doubt Federer would have lost those matches. Likewise if Nadal met Federer at the AO in 2010 or US Open 2009 Federer was in better form those 2 tournaments. Nadal is lucky he was able to build up a mental advantage against Federer by playing him predominantly on clay. Their primes never actually overlapped and the surface distribution of matches aided Nadal early on.
It's all hypotheticals. Nadal has been the better player in most of his matches with Federer either through level of play (FO 08 for example) or mentally (AO 09 for example). Fact is it doesn't matter because as of now Federer has 6 more slams and is considered the better player by most of the world.
So keep on provoking people if that's how you get your kicks but until Rafa gets to 17 the head to head is of little consequence.
Winning the slam isn't about beating one player but 7 different players. Nadal failed to make the final is because the players who beat him was a better player during that slam despite he was ranked higher. Saying Federer is lucky is no difference than saying Nadal was LUCKY not to meet prime Borg on clay, Safin in 2005 AO, prime Sampras at the USO, etc... You can play the lucky card for any past champions. It's pointless.
Just remember that the top 4 players doesn't necessary means all of them are playing the better than the rest of the field at a particular slam. On paper, the ranking say they are, but in reality, Fed, Nadal, Nole, Murray have all lost to lower ranking players at the slams before. They best players make the final, regardless of the ranking. You look at the 2009 USO, Fed would have a better chance against any top players than Del Potro, who was ranked lower. Oh, and the 2006 AO, Nadal ranked #2 didn't play, but he wasn't going to be a force there anyway. Bagdatis's ranking was low, but he was the 2nd best players in that tournament. The point is high rank players looks good on paper, but it doesn't necessary mean they are automatically the better player at a particular time.
QFT. Nadal's best surface beat Fed's worst surface. But Fed's best surface beat Nadal's worst. As timnz said, you can't disregard surface difference when you look at the player's h2h record.
That was then, and the whole premise of this thread is that his attitude has changed.
Back then, it didn't happen very often and he wasn't approaching the end of his career, with all of the psychological baggage that comes with it. He'll have known that the 2012 Olympics was his last chance to win singles gold, made that bit tougher by having been held at the venue that should have suited him best.
It's even been said that he wants to hang in there until Rio, which if true, means he's got to pace himself for the next three and a half years, and in the meantime, a lot of his play will be half-arsed.
You may not agree with me, but it's a perfectly reasonable suggestion.
On the other hand, I think people (fans) are over-playing his lack of motivation. He only got worked up during the AO semi because he wanted to win it. He's always had trouble playing Murray and for years fans have speculated Fed's must have had a back problem or some other issue after a loss against him. It's not a sign of his decline (physical or emotional), but a sign that he finds Murray a difficult match-up.
pame
Hall of Fame
what streak? 1 match is now a streak? If memory serves correctly, Fed won the previous match they played, Olympics, 6-2, 6-2
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
Hard court streak.
pame
Hall of Fame
one in 09, the other 4 years later... pfffft
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
They're still 2 consecutive wins on hard. (Last 2 matches they've played). IW would be the 3rd. Not that many people have beaten Fed 3 times in a row on hard.
Povl Carstensen
Legend
And half of them was at RG against probable surface goat, it is ok.
"Unlucky, unlucky, oh yes," uncle Toni said. "If there wasn't Federer, perhaps Rafael would have been No. 1 for four years. But with Federer, that was impossible."
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tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
Losing to a cripple, let's say in the QF stage of Indian Wells would do the trick.
+1,
Nobody can beat Federer at FO except Nadal and maybe Djokovic, IMHO.
Top 10 players are beating Federer with more success these days on faster courts.
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The_Order
G.O.A.T.
Nadal didn't fail to make it to Fed in the following slams:
RG05, 06, 07, 08 & 11
WIM06, 07, 08
AO09, 12
Out of those 10 meetings Fed could only win 2. So, if Federer is so great why couldn't he beat Nadal more often in the majors?
And that point you bring up about Borg, Safin and Sampras is bs, they weren't even in any of the draws.
Baghdatis played crap after one set and a half.
Gonzo did not keep up his level from the previous rounds.
Roddick choked in the important moments of the 09WIM final.
Soderling played nothing like he did against Nadal when he faced Fed in the final.
Murray also didn't keep up his form from the QF when he played the final. He basically gave Fed a 2 set head start.
There's a reason they are ranked lower and a big part of it is CONSISTENCY. While they are capable of playing well enough to beat top 4 players, they are not capable of bringing that form for the whole tournament, especially when it's their first major final and the nerves get to them or Murray who gets nervous in every slam final he makes it to.
This is why those guys have never beat 2 of Novak, Fed or Rafa back to back in majors. Only Del Potro and Berdych have done it I think (Berdych beat Fed and Novak in WIM10) (Delpo beat Rafa and Fed in USO09), apart from that nobody has done it. Federer has never even beaten Novak and Rafa back to back to win a slam. Rafa has beat Novak and Fed to win slams and Novak has beat Rafa and Fed also.
gplracer
Hall of Fame
???? and....
Unfair comparison based on the age differences. Honestly you just cannot compare. Federer is my favorite player and to me the best of all time. Although, Nadal is also a great champion and one of the best of all time as well. There are just too many factors that cannot be quantified.
What if Nadal was the same age as Federer?
What if Nadal played when there was no poly strings or only wooden rackets?
What if Nadal played in the era when the courts were faster?
What if Nadal was healthy all the time? He is not. Why is that?
What if Federer was younger? Maybe he would do better maybe not.
What if.........
Really guys give it up. Pick your favorite player and be done with it. Trying to convince others that they are wrong will not work. It just goes back and forth forever.
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beast of mallorca
G.O.A.T.
QFT.
But you know that TW forum is going to close down if that happens right ? And the ****s will never listen. But I hear yah...........
No victory is hollow, the only objective metric is actual accomplishments. If you want to argue exactly which subjective perturbative adjustments are necessary and which aren't, it will take all of eternity. No one is required to validate their victory by defeating certain players of different age brackets to project some perceptive satisfaction to anyone. The fine-grain scale at which you can dwell over or deconstruct something knows no bounds, well until you pass the limit of the correspondence principle and stuff starts to get all quantum...
Goosehead
Legend
asterisk against federer at wimbledon 2012..he didnt play nadal in the final so it dosnt count..
in fact a double asterisk as fed somehow avoided meeting rosol on his way to the title as well :twisted:
abmk
Bionic Poster
how was baggy worse ? he was serving for the 2nd set vs fed ...
atleast baggy came through a tough draw - nalbandian, roddick, ljubicic ( & stepanek) ..murray had a cakewalk draw till the QF ....
these days, yes ... berdych can take federer out of his comfort zone , not federer at his peak ...
again,you haven't seen the match, gonzo played well and fought throughout ...fed just played a tactically brilliant match, taking it on from his FH side, quite a bit of net play, playing brilliantly up there and rushed gonzo ...
actually see the final part of my reply. I do consider isner as a factor for rafa's draw in RG 2011 ....
davydenko actually regained his composure and the final set was as hard fought as it can be ..
unlike murray in AO 2013 final vs djoker or murray in wimbledon 2011 vs rafa
part of what stat ? that he didn't face a top 4 player ? lol, when other players are playing better than the top 4 and played well vs fed ... does that really matter ?
what on earth are you talking about ?
what a bunch of cr*p. That missed volley was the only point where he "cracked". If he was that mentally bad, he wouldn't be able to take the 3rd set to breaker nor win the 4th set ...
after so many games of holding from behind in the final, he finally lost his serve. Jeez, that's supposed to be a sign of mental weakness ?
LOL, what BS ....
Ummm, you do realise Sod was facing in form Rafa the next year don't you? Fed's 09 RG level is nowhere near the same universe as Rafa's level in 2010 RG. Rafa is the RG GOAT, when he's in form of course Sod's only going to play well in patches, that happens to everybody. Sod certainly did better against in form Rafa at RG than Fed did in 08
The only time Sod had something go his way in 09 was when that nutcase ran onto the court and distracted Federer's concentration.
Better in 09 LOL I shouldn't be surprised by your dumb trolling.
yes, I do realize he was facing rafa ..
fed's form overall in 2009 RG wasn't close to rafa's level in 2010 RG. But in the final, he played one of his best matches and his level was very high ...
murray would at max get a set vs the federer from QF to the finals .. fed played very well vs monfils, brilliant vs soderling and good vs delpo
the patches of bad play from federer were mainly in the acusaso match in 2R and haas match in 4R
I personally never said rafa's 2011 RG was easy, he did beat in-form federer and isner, even murray wasn't bad ..he did get lucky that he didn't face djokovic, doesn't mean his draw in RG 2011 was easy. Far from it.
there is a difference in saying federer got lucky because he didn't face nadal @ 2009 RG or nadal got lucky because he didn't face djokovic @ RG 2011 from saying that these 2 draws were easy ...
Povl Carstensen
Legend
Exactly. A good player, or a player playing good makes the other player look bad, its all relative. Overall the finalist at a major has done good. The two winners of each half meets to find the overall winner. A pretty good system if you ask me...
Gonzo_style
Hall of Fame
No, that might end his career lol
mariecon
Hall of Fame
we shall see.
kalyan4fedever
Legend
he lost motivation for some reason and is happy with the losses
Cesc Fabregas
Legend
Answer: " a time machine "
I think everyone reaches a point where you get tired of all the training, sponsor commitments and travel.
Especially when you have family and small children. He should do like Sampras and focus on the grand slams that way we might see him around a couple more years.
I think everyone reaches a point where you get tired of all the training, sponsor commitments and travel.
Especially when you have family and small children. He should do like Sampras and focus on the grand slams that way we might see him around a couple more years.
PrinceMoron
Legend
No it wasn't, no he wasn't. ask JMdP how he felt, that was tough. Ask ND about getting no medal at all. Switzerland won a silver. What else is there to know?
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