GRASScaraz
Professional
I think we were denied some epics
What would be the outcome of Federer and Djokovic played at RG from 2007-2010?
- Thread starter GRASScaraz
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nolefam_2024
Talk Tennis Guru
Who cares
Sinner is in the final. Fed retired long time ago.
Sinner is in the final. Fed retired long time ago.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Exactly
platypus50
Semi-Pro
2007 - Fed
2008 - toss-up (Djoker finally beat Fed in a major in AO that year but Fed won their Monte Carlo match...so really not sure), that would have been battle for runner-up since Nadal was waiting in the final and we all know his record in RG finals
2009 - Fed (Djoker had a wonky serve and was gassed at RG after his clay trilogy battles against Nadal leading up to RG that year - Monte Carlo, Rome, Madrid)
2010 - Fed
2008 - toss-up (Djoker finally beat Fed in a major in AO that year but Fed won their Monte Carlo match...so really not sure), that would have been battle for runner-up since Nadal was waiting in the final and we all know his record in RG finals
2009 - Fed (Djoker had a wonky serve and was gassed at RG after his clay trilogy battles against Nadal leading up to RG that year - Monte Carlo, Rome, Madrid)
2010 - Fed
Subway Tennis
Legend
Can we add a poll?
Sport
G.O.A.T.
My untestable, therefore irrelevant, take:
I'd strongly favor Federer in 2007, 2009 and (slightly less strongly) 2010 over Novak
I'd strongly favor Novak in 2008 over Federer. Novak did not receive a bagel and made the 1st and 3rd sets competitives against Rafa. Novak won 10 games and forced a tie-break against the King of clay, Roger won 4 games and forced no tie-break against Rafa
I'd strongly favor Federer in 2007, 2009 and (slightly less strongly) 2010 over Novak
I'd strongly favor Novak in 2008 over Federer. Novak did not receive a bagel and made the 1st and 3rd sets competitives against Rafa. Novak won 10 games and forced a tie-break against the King of clay, Roger won 4 games and forced no tie-break against Rafa
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Lleytonstation
Talk Tennis Guru
Lleytonstation
Talk Tennis Guru
Yeah, without Rafa, Djoker might have 15 RG titles...
Lleytonstation
Talk Tennis Guru
08 mono Fed still wins.
Sport
G.O.A.T.
So the guy who got bagelled and only won 4 games against Rafa would undoubtedly beat in 3 sets (4 max.) the guy who won 12 games, received no bagel, made 2 sets competitive and forced a tie-break against Rafa?
No wonder why hypothetical Federer is unbeatable. Unbelievable.
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Holmes
Hall of Fame
And Roger would have 15 finals...
Lleytonstation
Talk Tennis Guru
jackson vile
G.O.A.T.
Federer couldn’t beat Nadal at FO, but Novak did
BGod
G.O.A.T.
Are we to look at the actual years?
Cause Fed might only lose 2010. Really hard to gauge that one though because how do we even begin to compare Soderling to Melzer???
2008 has been done to death. Federer was both mentally scarred and Nadal was at his peak. The freaking bagel is a MEANINGLESS stat considering it was the 3rd set. That match ended after the 1st set. How exactly does a 21 year old Novak step into that shadow???
All we have for surrounding metrics is the MC encounter Novak retired down a set and break. I get 2009 might be more intriguing with back to back 3 set victories for Novak but I'd still personally wager Fed in 4 or 5.
The much, MUCH better question should obviously 2009-2011 Fed vs. 2019-21 Novak.
Cause Fed might only lose 2010. Really hard to gauge that one though because how do we even begin to compare Soderling to Melzer???
2008 has been done to death. Federer was both mentally scarred and Nadal was at his peak. The freaking bagel is a MEANINGLESS stat considering it was the 3rd set. That match ended after the 1st set. How exactly does a 21 year old Novak step into that shadow???
All we have for surrounding metrics is the MC encounter Novak retired down a set and break. I get 2009 might be more intriguing with back to back 3 set victories for Novak but I'd still personally wager Fed in 4 or 5.
The much, MUCH better question should obviously 2009-2011 Fed vs. 2019-21 Novak.
BGod
G.O.A.T.
You do realize how tennis sets are actually measured in the real world right?
If the server has a high hold rate every set essentially comes down to asingle break. Your logic would then dictate Pete Sampras was inferior because he routinely had his opponents manage 3+ games a set, let alone forcing tiebreaks. It's as if him not caring to break them multiple times is some sort of weakness....
Had Novak won an actual set against Nadal you would have an obvious point. Nevermind the mental baggage Fed had acquired at that point Novak did not.
For Fed losing that first set already meant he was going to be embarassed once again and at that point him winning any games without taking a set was IRRELEVANT.
The two had actually met on clay once before the tournament and Fed looked at winning 2-0 before Novak just retired seeing the inevitable. So yeah, that's more to go off than Novak losing better on paper in straights...
Incognito
Legend
Rafa was 2 breaks up in that 3rd set.
Incognito
Legend
Im sure 2007 Fed would want to play Rafa in 2015 and 2021 versions as well
It’s a completely different match up. How they both did vs Nadal doesn’t indicate how they would perform vs each other.
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
Fed would win the majority of these. The only one Djokovic might win is 2008.
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
True. I think Fed probably wins all 4 of these. Only for Novak chance is 2008 but still Fed wouldn’t be bothered by Novak like he was with peak Rafa.
welcome2petrkordaland
Professional
Comparing the anomalously heinous matchup on clay for Federer against Nadal (esp. peak/prime Nadal) with Djokovic-Nadal is apples and oranges, mate. Furthermore, tennis is more about matchups, which I’m shocked such a great and knowledgeable poster like Sport didn’t consider in this post. That’s actually unbelievable.
Mustard
Bionic Poster
That's the wrong way to compare. Focus on Federer vs. Djokovic as a matchup rather than how those two both did against Nadal. Federer beat Djokovic at 2008 Monte Carlo when Djokovic retired with a sore throat. Federer had been leading 6-3, 3-2 ret.
Djokovic's best chance against Federer 2007-2010 time at the French Open is in 2008, but I still think Federer would win.
By the way, Nadal was leading 6-4, 6-2, 3-0 (2 breaks) against Djokovic in the 2008 French Open semi final. Up to that point, Djokovic was getting the same sort of beating as what Federer got in the final.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
All but 08
ibbi
G.O.A.T.
2007 - Federer. Easily.
2008 - Djokovic.
2009/2010 - I mean, who cares? Djokovic wasn't good enough to beat the Austro-Germans. If we're imagining a world where he was then we can imagine any level we like. Djokovic was clearly better through the 2009 clay season, 2010 you can go either way. I give the edge to Federer.
2008 - Djokovic.
2009/2010 - I mean, who cares? Djokovic wasn't good enough to beat the Austro-Germans. If we're imagining a world where he was then we can imagine any level we like. Djokovic was clearly better through the 2009 clay season, 2010 you can go either way. I give the edge to Federer.
inflation_era
Semi-Pro
2008 Fed couldn't beat Nadal, that doesn't mean he's not beating Novak. 2011 showed that a weaker version of Fed could beat the best version of Djokovic. Fed would easily win all 4 therefore.
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
I think Fed wins all of them except maybe 2008, and even that's a 50/50 because I doubt he would play the same way he did against Nadal.
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
glad to hear a bagel is only a possibility and not an inevitability for poor fraud in 2008
Mustard
Bionic Poster
Djokovic had a tough match with Gremelmayr.
Hitman
Bionic Poster
Yes, but I'm talking about more later in the event, they wouldn't be playing in anything but a semi or a final at that stage. By that point Djokovic was playing much better.
BorgTheGOAT
Legend
Djoko won even 12 games but who cares. Nadal is known to raise his level in finals and the 08 was a particularly bad one-off from Fed. Also it says us next to nothing who won more games in their Nadal matches when both were comfortably beaten.
jackson vile
G.O.A.T.
Woulda shoulda coulda, the fact is he didn’tIm sure 2007 Fed would want to play Rafa in 2015 and 2021 versions as well
helterskelter
G.O.A.T.
12 games
This.
welcome2petrkordaland
Professional
I’m curious what posters think about a scenario that kind of keeps the spirit of the OP but ups the ante a bit: Take out Nadal totally; so no Nadal. How many Roland Garros titles would Federer and Djokovic win each? Or who wins more RG: Djokovic or Federer? Or what would the RG title haul be for each with no Nadal? I will post a thread soon on this.
Racquet_smash
Semi-Pro
2007 Fed easily. It was his peak year at RG and Djokovic wasn't that great.
2008 50/50, Djokovic was near prime level that edition while Federer was still very good, even if not as good as 2007.
2009 Federer easily again, Djokovic couldn't even beat Kohlschreiber.
2010 50/50 again, both had a meadiocre tournament this time around.
2008 50/50, Djokovic was near prime level that edition while Federer was still very good, even if not as good as 2007.
2009 Federer easily again, Djokovic couldn't even beat Kohlschreiber.
2010 50/50 again, both had a meadiocre tournament this time around.
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
Disagree. Fed was solid if not particularly outstanding in 2010. Soderling played an incredible match in the QF that was worthy of the 2009 4R against Nadal.
Djokodalerer31
Hall of Fame
Federer wins 3 of the 4, Loses 2008 one...in 2007 Djokovic didn't have enough experience yet to oppose Fedals effectively, and in 2009-2010 stretch he is one of the worst periods of his career, where he struggled with health issues of all kind of sorts, especially breathing related...in 2008 it was the perfect situation for Djokovic to win as Federer wasn't in his blistering best playing at FO that year (and as time proved not at his blistering best at Wimbledon either...) and Djokovic was on the contrary uplifted and and in great shape from winning his maiden slam at the AO and in perfect position to cause upset that year! The momentum back then was on Novak's side rather than Roger's, so i vote 2008 win for Novak if Nadal wasn't standing on his way...the other three go to Roger no contest...Omg they would both have 5+ RG titles were it not for certain clay GOAT! LOL Just like they have at AO and Wimbledon...
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Racquet_smash
Semi-Pro
But Soderling is a player Fed should still beat comfortably by match up alone, much like Wawrinka. Their h2h is 16-1, even on clay Roger dominates 4-1.
It's still a bad loss.
Holmes
Hall of Fame
Don't be silly. 2009 Soderling accomplished an historic feat that was covered on ESPN general reporting for how shocking it was. 2010 Soderling's drubbing of Roger was an excellent effort but by no means comparable to the prior year. C'mon now.
Holmes
Hall of Fame
You seem to have an issue with Fed, as only trolls call him Fraud. I assume his world #200 backhand is what's striking you?
gravemadness
New User
Federer wins all their matches between 2007-10 at RG. If he won in 2011 (vs THAT version of Novak), he was deffo winning against the inferior versions.
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