What Would It Say For Federer If He Loses?

#1
Especially against Djokovic in the final,how will it affect his legacy? I mean,this is a guy who is claimed by most to be the greatest grass court player ever but he would be 0-3 in Wimbledon finals against one of his biggest rivals. How can he make that claim when someone else has his number? Who dominated Borg on grass,or Sampras? Or against Nadal he would be 2-2 H2H on his favourite surface. You can bring up age,but when Federer lost the 2014 Wimbledon final he was 32. Djokovic is 32 now and dominating Wimbledon and if Federer is playing well enough to get to the final,well he can't be that bad can he?
 
#7
Especially against Djokovic in the final,how will it affect his legacy? I mean,this is a guy who is claimed by most to be the greatest grass court player ever but he would be 0-3 in Wimbledon finals against one of his biggest rivals. How can he make that claim when someone else has his number? Who dominated Borg on grass,or Sampras? Or against Nadal he would be 2-2 H2H on his favourite surface. You can bring up age,but when Federer lost the 2014 Wimbledon final he was 32. Djokovic is 32 now and dominating Wimbledon and if Federer is playing well enough to get to the final,well he can't be that bad can he?
Federer lost the W final, narrowly, at age 32, playing another ATG, who was in his prime at 27.

If Novak Djokovic wins the W final, at age 32, he'll do it against another ATG, who is past his prime, aged either 37 or 33.

Thus, incorrect comparison.
 

Benben245

Professional
#9
Its very unusual to concede a player has been out of his athletic prime for a decade but that his loses at 38 hurt his legacy. If the final against Djokovic, should Fed get there, were actually against Bautista agut, and fed lost, would any of us say that his legacy is tarnished? No, we would in unison agree, he's old. Just because its Djokovic, and just because Djokovic is nipping at the heels of Fed's slam record, doesn't mean much of anything considering Federer is way past his prime.
 

Towny

Professional
#10
Federer played Djokovic at Wimbledon aged 30, 32 and 33. If they meet in the final, he'll have played him age 37. Djokovic was 25, 27 and 28 in those encounters. He has always had the age advantage at Wimbledon. In spite of that, Federer beat him in 2012 and took him to 5 at age 32. That was after not making a slam final in 2 years. Only in 2015 was Djokovic significantly better. Right now, Djokovic doesn't have an ATG who is 6 years younger to play against, let alone a GOAT candidate at his second best slam. I highly doubt Djokovic would want to play himself from 2015 in the final.

Federer has won 8 Wimbledon titles with 11 finals overall. The next best is Sampras, with 7 titles and 7 finals overall. Even if Djokovic wins this tournament, he will have 5 titles. So Federer will be the Wimbledon GOAT regardless of the outcome of this tournament.
 
#11
Federer played Djokovic at Wimbledon aged 30, 32 and 33. If they meet in the final, he'll have played him age 37. Djokovic was 25, 27 and 28 in those encounters. He has always had the age advantage at Wimbledon. In spite of that, Federer beat him in 2012 and took him to 5 at age 32. That was after not making a slam final in 2 years. Only in 2015 was Djokovic significantly better. Right now, Djokovic doesn't have an ATG who is 6 years younger to play against, let alone a GOAT candidate at his second best slam. I highly doubt Djokovic would want to play himself from 2015 in the final.

Federer has won 8 Wimbledon titles with 11 finals overall. The next best is Sampras, with 7 titles and 7 finals overall. Even if Djokovic wins this tournament, he will have 5 titles. So Federer will be the Wimbledon GOAT regardless of the outcome of this tournament.
Oh, well I am hearing this ends the GOAT debate and means Rafa is just as good if not better than Fed on grass...
 
#16
Hey don't get me wrong,Federer is actually my favourite of the 3 but all I'm saying is,if they all finished on 20 slams (it's looking increasingly likely that all 3 will finish on 20+) this is an argument that is going to come up time and time again - Federer has come up short when it counts against his 2 biggest rivals more often than he came out on the winning side,these are just facts no matter how you spin it with age. These guys had beaten Federer multiple times in slams before he was 30 and well within his peak still...
 
#19
Hey don't get me wrong,Federer is actually my favourite of the 3 but all I'm saying is,if they all finished on 20 slams (it's looking increasingly likely that all 3 will finish on 20+) this is an argument that is going to come up time and time again - Federer has come up short when it counts against his 2 biggest rivals more often than he came out on the winning side,these are just facts no matter how you spin it with age. These guys had beaten Federer multiple times in slams before he was 30 and well within his peak still...
Only Nadal can claim that with his wins at 2008 W, 2009 AO.

Anything post 2010 doesn’t mean much... 2-3 vs Djokovic in 2011-2012. All slow court meetings with prime Nadal were losses, to be expected.
 
#22
Borg retired soon after McEnroe dethroned him at Wimbledon.

Sampras also didn't stick around for long after his loss to Federer, losing even earlier the next year.

Federer has done a tremendous job going so deep at Wimbledon to this day, making the second week in the 2010s every time except 2013, and winning another two titles. Falling short against Djokovic (who is the second best on the surface in the last 20 years and a very consistent, quality machine) for the third time wouldn't make him lose his status as the greatest grass player.
 
#23
What should Roger have done? Retire at 32 or 33 to protect his legacy? Nadal and Djokovic SHOULD beat him at this point! If they don't what does that say? The guy is basically 38 years old in a sport normally for the young, 20 to 30 years old. He is turning in results far past any realistic expectations. That he continues to do well is a bonus.
 
#27
Especially against Djokovic in the final,how will it affect his legacy? I mean,this is a guy who is claimed by most to be the greatest grass court player ever but he would be 0-3 in Wimbledon finals against one of his biggest rivals. How can he make that claim when someone else has his number? Who dominated Borg on grass,or Sampras? Or against Nadal he would be 2-2 H2H on his favourite surface. You can bring up age,but when Federer lost the 2014 Wimbledon final he was 32. Djokovic is 32 now and dominating Wimbledon and if Federer is playing well enough to get to the final,well he can't be that bad can he?
Federer dominated Sampras on grass. Oh, and what age did Sampras retire again? And Borg?
 
#31
Especially against Djokovic in the final,how will it affect his legacy? I mean,this is a guy who is claimed by most to be the greatest grass court player ever but he would be 0-3 in Wimbledon finals against one of his biggest rivals. How can he make that claim when someone else has his number? Who dominated Borg on grass,or Sampras? Or against Nadal he would be 2-2 H2H on his favourite surface. You can bring up age,but when Federer lost the 2014 Wimbledon final he was 32. Djokovic is 32 now and dominating Wimbledon and if Federer is playing well enough to get to the final,well he can't be that bad can he?
So who is this 27 year old ATG that djoker has to face like Fed did back in 2014? We talking RBA or Goffin?
 
#32
The bigger threat to Fed’s legacy from losing to Novak on Sunday would not be the loss itself. At almost 38 and against an ATG 6 years younger this would be expected. But in this scenario Nole ends with 16 slams (and likely to win several more) and 5 Wimbledons. It also probably ensures a 6th YE1, surpassing Fed. All of that is more relevant in any comparison of legacies.
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
#33
Especially against Djokovic in the final,how will it affect his legacy? I mean,this is a guy who is claimed by most to be the greatest grass court player ever but he would be 0-3 in Wimbledon finals against one of his biggest rivals. How can he make that claim when someone else has his number? Who dominated Borg on grass,or Sampras? Or against Nadal he would be 2-2 H2H on his favourite surface. You can bring up age,but when Federer lost the 2014 Wimbledon final he was 32. Djokovic is 32 now and dominating Wimbledon and if Federer is playing well enough to get to the final,well he can't be that bad can he?
Federer has nothing to lose other than his record for total slams by not prevailing at Wimbledon 2019. The Federistas have relentlessly whining about the firm, true, high bouncing conditions because it does make the courts slower. This clearly helps Djoko and Nadal so Federe has a 2nd excuse beyond infirmity should he crash out here.

If Djoko gets 5 here then he's in with the Borg and Connors type grass court playerer; this does not diminish Federer. Its like saying McEnroe diminished Borg.

In the GOAT sweepstakes, Federe might be able to withstand Nadal at 21 given Nadal so, so RG heavy. Djoko is the enemy for sure. If Federe somehow wins this Wimbledon of course you do realize he's like the GOAT five times overer?:sneaky: 2019 Wimby would just GOAT him up for good.
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
#34
Hey don't get me wrong,Federer is actually my favourite of the 3 but all I'm saying is,if they all finished on 20 slams (it's looking increasingly likely that all 3 will finish on 20+) this is an argument that is going to come up time and time again - Federer has come up short when it counts against his 2 biggest rivals more often than he came out on the winning side,these are just facts no matter how you spin it with age. These guys had beaten Federer multiple times in slams before he was 30 and well within his peak still...
The complete fail on this is that Federe adapted to a huge technology change. Nadal and Djoko were the first great players born and bred on Poly string. There games developed around it. Federe should not be winning anything, let alone when he's in his 38th year. He should be long gone like Roddick, Hewitt, Ferrero, and many, many more.

We can try to take away McEnroe's 1984 with graphite just like Fed's 2004, but then compare the results afterwards. Federe is very special and something Djoko and Nadal can never match as they had it very easy in their youngerer years when they were the wolfs among the all court sheep. Fed had competition during his earliest years. The rest of the Big 4 had it very easy coming up with only Fed off clay and Nadal on clay. Hoovering up in a vacuum created by technology change. Yes it was hard to get the early slam, but plenty else ready for consumption especially with Federer slam focused and Nadal not near his hard court prime.
 
#36
The bigger threat to Fed’s legacy from losing to Novak on Sunday would not be the loss itself. At almost 38 and against an ATG 6 years younger this would be expected. But in this scenario Nole ends with 16 slams (and likely to win several more) and 5 Wimbledons. It also probably ensures a 6th YE1, surpassing Fed. All of that is more relevant in any comparison of legacies.
Weeks at number 1 will hurt when it comes next year. If he keeps this level up for another year or more it will all be in his hands.
 
#38
Weeks at number 1 will hurt when it comes next year. If he keeps this level up for another year or more it will all be in his hands.
Yes. And that’s a big issue in the GOAT debate, the gradual chipping away of some, possibly many, of Fed’s records. If Fed ends up with more slams but Nole with more YE 1 and more weeks at #1, and if someone else is the clay GOAT and Fed is only GOAT of one surface and co GoAT of another the differences between the Big start blurring in more and more.
 
#40
Fed is the new Gatekeeper taking duties from ex-Prince swining Ferrer yet he just doesnt know it yet
He thinks he can win on the slower grass court surface in history, unfortunately Mirka
will be woffing her nails and stocking up on lots of hair dye for both of them after this.
Nadal has a great chance to win on Green Clay but Nole if on song will amake ripper final.
 
#41
Fed is the new Gatekeeper taking duties from ex-Prince swining Ferrer yet he just doesnt know it yet
He thinks he can win on the slower grass court surface in history, unfortunately Mirka
will be woffing her nails and stocking up on lots of hair dye for both of them after this.
Nadal has a great chance to win on Green Clay but Nole if on song will amake ripper final.
 
#42
Especially against Djokovic in the final,how will it affect his legacy? I mean,this is a guy who is claimed by most to be the greatest grass court player ever but he would be 0-3 in Wimbledon finals against one of his biggest rivals. How can he make that claim when someone else has his number? Who dominated Borg on grass,or Sampras? Or against Nadal he would be 2-2 H2H on his favourite surface. You can bring up age,but when Federer lost the 2014 Wimbledon final he was 32. Djokovic is 32 now and dominating Wimbledon and if Federer is playing well enough to get to the final,well he can't be that bad can he?
Federer is 12 years past his peak! Think about that, so many players don’t even have careers that long. The fact that he has made the semis is all credit to him
 
#47
There is no reason for Fed to lose this.
  • He is ranked 3 in the world and seeded 2 in this tournament meaning that he is playing well enough for age not to be an excuse.
  • He is seeded above Rafa on the famous / infamous Wimbledon grass seedings
  • He is the grass GOAT - He could be excused for losing to Rafa at RG but this is his turf to defend
Although I would love to see a Rafa win - especially because it is a Fedal match, a win for Rafa is a bonus (made the semis again, defended 2018 points and a loss to the grass GOAT at Wimby is no disgrace), but a loss for Federer again to Rafa on Fed's court would unacceptable - Rafa wouldn't let it happen at RG.
 
#50
There is no reason for Fed to lose this.
  • He is ranked 3 in the world and seeded 2 in this tournament meaning that he is playing well enough for age not to be an excuse.
  • He is seeded above Rafa on the famous / infamous Wimbledon grass seedings
  • He is the grass GOAT - He could be excused for losing to Rafa at RG but this is his turf to defend
Although I would love to see a Rafa win - especially because it is a Fedal match, a win for Rafa is a bonus (made the semis again, defended 2018 points and a loss to the grass GOAT at Wimby is no disgrace), but a loss for Federer again to Rafa on Fed's court would unacceptable - Rafa wouldn't let it happen at RG.
When Rafa is 38 we will see if he would lose to another ATG who is 5 years younger ate RG. Oh wait, there won't be a younger ATG to play him.
 
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