What would it take for a new player to enter the GOAT debate in the next couple decades?

[Arjuntino]

Hypothetical question.
Obviously, ~25 slams would be a condition.
But if and when that happens how would a player with a Serena type contestant pool with a couple of smaller rivalries compare with a big three 2.0?

Would they need to be ahead by a couple of slams or would just one slam beat enough?

 

[kunos]

the only necessary ingredient is enough dumb people willing to open and discuss these useless "goat" conversations.

 

[itrium84]

Hypothetical question.
Obviously, ~25 slams would be a condition.
But if and when that happens how would a player with a Serena type contestant pool with a couple of smaller rivalries compare with a big three 2.0?

Would they need to be ahead by a couple of slams or would just one slam beat enough?

It's easy, new GOAT contender would have to achieve:
1. Similar number of GS and other big titles
2. Similar number of weeks and years no1
3. Very high domination peak
4. Very widespread success variety

If he is clearly ahead of Novak in (at least) 2 out of these 4, yeah - there's a lot of room for debate

 

[ppma]

Whoever comes next can win 30 slams agains the utter mug era that tennis is right now, and it will be meaningless. The point is that there is no objective GOAT. It makes no sense since all GOAT contender players cannot play in the same era, with their primes and peaks happening at the same time, and using the same technology.

This is all a discussion about personal preferences.

 

[AleYeah]

...there is no objective GOAT. It makes no sense since all GOAT contender players cannot play in the same era, with their primes and peaks happening at the same time, and using the same technology.

This is all a discussion about personal preferences.

A sticky-worthy comment.

 

[nolefam_2024]

It's easy, new GOAT contender would have to achieve:
1. Similar number of GS and other big titles
2. Similar number of weeks and years no1
3. Very high domination peak
4. Very widespread success variety

If he is clearly ahead of Novak in (at least) 2 out of these 4, yeah - there's a lot of room for debate

This is comprehensive

No one needs to copy the goat just be better than goat in many criterias

It's not rocket science

 

[TheGoldenEra1990’s]

Considering the weakness of the tour 30 slams minimum is a must IMO. Djoker had to deal with Fedal for like the first decade of his caree . A dominant player today doesn’t even have to deal with their mentally challenged cousins

Maybe even 35 slams I don’t know. It’s pretty bad right now. I need evidence of a stronger tour. I don’t see any evidence at all

 

[Djokovic_is_the_best#1]

Get 25 slams and assuming Djokovic stays on 24 and that’s your new GOAT. Getting a bunch of other records to go alongside 25 would look better too.

 

[Sport]

It's easy, new GOAT contender would have to achieve:
1. Similar number of GS and other big titles
2. Similar number of weeks and years no1
3. Very high domination peak
4. Very widespread success variety

If he is clearly ahead of Novak in (at least) 2 out of these 4, yeah - there's a lot of room for debate

If he's ahead of Novak both in Slams total and weeks at #1, there would be no debate.

 

[nolefam_2024]

If he's ahead of Novak both in Slams total and weeks at #1, there would be no debate.

100%

 

[James_Bolt]

As far as numbers are concerned, in these categories:
- Grand Slams
- ATP Finals
- Olympics
- Masters1000
- Big Titles

Tick the majority of these boxes:
- Most titles.
- Most consistent: Has been achieved repeatedly year after year.
- Most versatile: Has been achieved on different surfaces
- Highest peak: Reached the highest level over 12 month.

And these categories as well:
- Ranking (weeks#1, Year-end #1)
- Wins (H2H, top5 wins, top10 wins)

 

[nolefam_2024]

A GOAT will have these numbers locked in future. We don't have to worry about

Oh how could we define such a complex term

It's not complicated aside from agendas.

 

[Djokovic_is_the_best#1]

Considering the weakness of the tour 30 slams minimum is a must IMO. Djoker had to deal with Fedal for like the first decade of his caree . A dominant player today doesn’t even have to deal with their mentally challenged cousins

Maybe even 35 slams I don’t know. It’s pretty bad right now. I need evidence of a stronger tour. I don’t see any evidence at all

25 is enough. I think it could actually be tougher to get that number because apart from Alcaraz there appears to be nothing between the rest of the field.

It could be like golf or other sports where they just take slams off each other and there’s new winners every year. Only Alcaraz to me has the Potential to maybe do it due to his talent and mentality but again I’m not sure if his body will hold up and he can be a little bit more error prone compared to big 3 especially on his bad to mediocre days.

The big 3 were that good, consistent and had amazing mentality that they were always there and kept it up for so many years.

It is still questionable how long Alcaraz can keep his style of play going and running around for. He will need to adapt but he might. The rest of the players I don’t see coming anywhere near 20 so we will have to see after Alcaraz. It Alcaraz or bust so far but we don’t know who could come.

 

[nolefam_2024]

I think basketball is more physical today than in 70s and the players are still having longer careers today's.

If the same is in tennis then raz despite his injuries can eclipse Djokovic's numbers

 

[James_Bolt]

This is the current benchmark.

The new GOAT has to take away from Djokovic the majority of the boxes.

 

[InsuranceMan]

Once Popyrin wins the DCYGS it will be clear.

 

[weakera]

There's no one answer. For example if one player won 8 consecutive slams but got hit by a car before attempting his 9th, he would be the GOAT according to many, despite being nowhere near 25 slams.

 

[TheSlicer]

Eye test is enough for me, i dont care about titles

 

[Mark-Touch]

Next couple of decades?
Multiple players have ALREADY entered the GOAT debate on TTW!

 

[GabeT]

the only necessary ingredient is enough dumb people willing to open and discuss these useless "goat" conversations.

Reads like a definition of TTW!

 

[mental midget]

man i just don't see anyone replicating the 20+ slam thing.

one thing that might make for an interesting conversation was if someone could get to, say, 15 or 16 w/ 2 cygs.

 

[nolefam_2024]

man i just don't see anyone replicating the 20+ slam thing.

one thing that might make for an interesting conversation was if someone could get to, say, 15 or 16 w/ 2 cygs.

man i just don't see anyone replicating the 20+ slam thing.

one thing that might make for an interesting conversation was if someone could get to, say, 15 or 16 w/ 2 cygs.

WRONG

 

[forehand-slice]

If somehow Carlos were to get a CYGS plus a three slam year the following year, everyone will be calling him GOAT.

Nole fam want to live in an eternal present of Nole glory, but given their hero's lack of on court charisma or 'factor x' he can quickly become yesterdays news.

 

[weakera]

Eye test is enough for me, i dont care about titles

Based

 

[nolefam_2024]

This is what nolefams need to counter. We don't want nole to be eternal. Let's give credit to Carlos if he wins but not for the things he didn't win

Popularity can go to hell.

 

[Juice4080]

If someome came along who won 3-4 consecutive CYGS and never won anything else that would be enough for me to crown him the GOAT. He doesn't have to surpass Novak numbers. He'd simply have to have a stretch of dominance beyond anything we've ever seen before

 

[nolefam_2024]

4 CYGS sounds like 2004-07 without Nadal and Safin to me.
It takes a great rivalry to be a great player nowadays as well.
Only peak will not yield you GOATness this is 2024 not 1900s. A lot has happened.

 

[THUNDERVOLLEY]

Hypothetical question.
Obviously, ~25 slams would be a condition.
But if and when that happens how would a player with a Serena type contestant pool with a couple of smaller rivalries compare with a big three 2.0?

Would they need to be ahead by a couple of slams or would just one slam beat enough?

If he or she wins the Grand Slam, he or she is beyond debate, as they would be a recognized GOAT, like others with that distinction.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Peak + Longevity will matter.
Forget about these discussions, Djokovic has closed them for good at least right now. If in future a GOAT comes, we will see.
Theoretical means nothing

If if if doesn't exist.

 

[Djokovic_is_the_best#1]

If someome came along who won 3-4 consecutive CYGS and never won anything else that would be enough for me to crown him the GOAT. He doesn't have to surpass Novak numbers. He'd simply have to have a stretch of dominance beyond anything we've ever seen before

Record numbers is still more important in my eyes. As that dominance you describe would be great but just a short run. I’d much prefer a longer career of winning and getting over 24 slams then say 2 CYGS and couple of others to give you 10-11 slams.

The CYGS is overrated as it’s just 4 slams. It isn’t going to make you GOAT/best of all time if you still way behind in every other category and especially total slams.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Record numbers is still more important in my eyes. As that dominance you describe would be great but just a short run. I’d much prefer a longer career of winning and getting over 24 slams then say 2 CYGS and couple of others to give you 10-11 slams.

The CYGS is overrated as it’s just 4 slams. It isn’t going to make you GOAT/best of all time if you still way behind in every other category and especially total slams.

CYGS is not overrated

But these guys will bring it everyday like its in their backyard. Last time it happened was in 2016 and before that all the way back in 1969. Its pretty tough.

A guy winning that 4 times will certainly be worthy to be GOAT but that is neither here nor there. You know.

Talk in reality.

 

[MichaelNadal]

Slayage in an epic kit and great still photos

 

[Djokovic_is_the_best#1]

CYGS is not overrated

But these guys will bring it everyday like its in their backyard. Last time it happened was in 2016 and before that all the way back in 1969. Its pretty tough.

A guy winning that 4 times will certainly be worthy to be GOAT but that is neither here nor there. You know.

Talk in reality.

A guy has 4 peak years but say doesn’t do anything else that’s not GOAT in my eyes. It is an insane achievement but it isn’t do anything to be the best unless you build on it. It is still just 16 slams. Put it this way would you prefer Novak to win all 4 slams in 2011, 2015, 2021 and 2023 but nothing else or the career we seen him have? It is option 2 every time.

 

[itrium84]

If he's ahead of Novak both in Slams total and weeks at #1, there would be no debate.

Yes, there would be.
A strong one-dimensional clay-court player could gather 25 slams and 430 weeks, 18 RGs - but never win Wimbledon, YEC, 4/9 m1000s. Never dominate the field for a full year, gets yeNo1 only 4 times, wins less than 30 m1000s.
Imagine Rafa, but with no game variety or career versatility.

This imaginary guy would be significantly lesser player than Novak.

 

[Mark-Touch]

4 CYGS sounds like 2004-07 without Nadal and Safin to me.
It takes a great rivalry to be a great player nowadays as well.
Only peak will not yield you GOATness this is 2024 not 1900s. A lot has happened.

Nope, Juice is right.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Nope, Juice is right.

Juice gave most hypothetical answer. Not right for sure.

 

[Mark-Touch]

Juice gave most hypothetical answer. Not right for sure.

Oh I see.
And the less hypothetical answers should be given more weight because....
because they are... they are less hypothetical.

I see. That makes total sense. LOL!!!

 

[kishnabe]

Very Weak era is needed.

 

[Casey 1988]

I think basketball is more physical today than in 70s and the players are still having longer careers today's.

If the same is in tennis then raz despite his injuries can eclipse Djokovic's numbers

But LeBron is forcing using good sports lawyers his career in LA beyond where he should. It just currently in other countries in the Olympics they are not even close to the USA when it comes to Basketball as it seems a number of the really good teams in Europe are all mixed of different countries where as in the USA Olympic team the players are some of the best and better in top 100 not just one top level player like Greece would have or Spain might.

 

[nolefam_2024]

But LeBron is forcing using good sports lawyers his career in LA beyond where he should. It just currently in other countries in the Olympics they are not even close to the USA when it comes to Basketball as it seems a number of the really good teams in Europe are all mixed of different countries where as in the USA Olympic team the players are some of the best and better in top 100 not just one top level player like Greece would have or Spain might.

I think the injuries are becoming more manageable for short bursts now.

Which is why slams alcaraz can peak while being injured for some time in between.

 

[Juice4080]

A guy has 4 peak years but say doesn’t do anything else that’s not GOAT in my eyes. It is an insane achievement but it isn’t do anything to be the best unless you build on it. It is still just 16 slams. Put it this way would you prefer Novak to win all 4 slams in 2011, 2015, 2021 and 2023 but nothing else or the career we seen him have? It is option 2 every time.

Yes i would in a heartbeat. It would show a level of dominance over his peers beyond anything he has shown. There wouldn't be any debate as to who was the best at their best which is what the GOAT means to me. Novak has the best case right now IMO but it moreso based on his longevity over the others but whether he was the best we've ever seen play is a little more contentious. I don’t believe anyone has clearly separated themselve from the pack as far as peak level is concerned

 

[messiahrobins]

Hypothetical question.
Obviously, ~25 slams would be a condition.
But if and when that happens how would a player with a Serena type contestant pool with a couple of smaller rivalries compare with a big three 2.0?

Would they need to be ahead by a couple of slams or would just one slam beat enough?

Calendar Slam.

 

[Oval_Solid]

just be the top player that is currently playing
no one is going to be talking about djoker or the big 3 two decades from now
and yes this current top player in the future will be better than any of the big 3

 

[Lleytonstation]

Yes, there would be.
A strong one-dimensional clay-court player could gather 25 slams and 430 weeks, 18 RGs - but never win Wimbledon, YEC, 4/9 m1000s. Never dominate the field for a full year, gets yeNo1 only 4 times, wins less than 30 m1000s.
Imagine Rafa, but with no game variety or career versatility.

This imaginary guy would be significantly lesser player than Novak.

Not possible.

A guy being number 1 for that long and only dominating on clay would never happen.

He would have to be versatile to reach 400 plus weeks.

 

[Lleytonstation]

just be the top player that is currently playing
no one is going to be talking about djoker or the big 3 two decades from now
and yes this current top player in the future will be better than any of the big 3

Likely so. But without the records it will not be looked at as the best.

Numbers are only thing that lasts.

 

[CHillTennis]

Hypothetical question.
Obviously, ~25 slams would be a condition.
But if and when that happens how would a player with a Serena type contestant pool with a couple of smaller rivalries compare with a big three 2.0?

Would they need to be ahead by a couple of slams or would just one slam beat enough?

The slam count does not matter.

That player would need to dominate a series of competitors who are at least on level with the Big 3.

That's the only way that they get into any kind of serious consideration for being the greatest of all time.

 

[CHillTennis]

just be the top player that is currently playing
no one is going to be talking about djoker or the big 3 two decades from now
and yes this current top player in the future will be better than any of the big 3

Nope. Not at the rate that things are going, today.

 

[CHillTennis]

If somehow Carlos were to get a CYGS plus a three slam year the following year, everyone will be calling him GOAT.

Nole fam want to live in an eternal present of Nole glory, but given their hero's lack of on court charisma or 'factor x' he can quickly become yesterdays news.

The popular opinion is often wrong.

 

[Aabye5]

Easy - a Slam. The one thing none of the big 3 could accomplish.

 

[Razer]

He'll need to do what Federer did to Sampras. Chase the slams record with inevitability and break it.... that would be the end of it.

People won't even look at week@1 or year end 1s as a dealbreaker if the slams record falls.