What would two a return to two separate tours look like?

[tonylg]

The ATP and ITF have been engaged in an escalating cold war for many years. It goes way back, but recently has taken the form of ATP scheduling to disadvantage the ITF Davis Cup and replace it with their own ATP Cup.

The ITF, through the FFT has escalated things in the past week by unilaterally rescheduling the French Open without consultation to the exact same dates as the ATP Laver Cup and there are rumours of legal action by the ITF and FFT for breach of contract against the ATP if players skip the French to attend an ATP event.

Ignore the fact there may still be no tennis played by the time that rolls around. Where does this put the future of the sport? What would separate tours look like? Would the AO and USO stay solid with the ATP? What would Wimbledon do?

On the surface, it looks like the ATP would probably control everything except the little dirt tournament in France, but what if in order to play an ITF Futures event a young player had to sign a 10 year ITF contract? The old pro circuit had their own versions of slams, so there's no reason both sides couldn't have complete tours.

So, what would separate tours look like? Without the ATP, the ITF could move back to home and away Davis Cup. Without the ITF, the ATP would have to do more than just promote events and take on more stewardship of the game. If all grand slams went with the ITF, what Masters would be elevated to ATP Slem status?

 

[Federer and Del Potro]

Honestly I have been waiting for years for Federer to make his own tour. Think the Laver Cup is just the beginning of his takeover.

Will be interesting to see how TTW weighs Federer slams moving forward.

Outlined it a bit here:

The year is 2022 - Organized tennis no longer exists as it was. Federer, Nadal, and Djokovic have all created their own leagues and dominate the 3 respectively.

Statistician Lew posts thread proving Djokovic's league has the highest ELO, and that Djokovic League slams are 2.5 times as prestigious as the original slams.

Federer has just won the Swiss Federer open for the 2nd straight year. But his league comprises of 2003-2007 players only, the only way old man Fraud can win anymore, I guess. His slams count for less than the Laver cup.

Then there's the Mallorcan Moonball League, which Nadal is 88-0 in and is only played on the Mud.

TTW has been overrun - it is no longer moderated. This is the world now.

 

[tonylg]

Fed would naturally stay with the ATP due to commercial interests, but would Nadal break up the Fedal bromance or turn his back on the French Open. I think the former. The Spaniards and South Americans might go with him to make up the numbers with a few staying to vulture the new Rio ATP clay slem.

Djokovic is obviously very involved the ATP, but would he play second fiddle to Fed? Your prediction of 3 tours instead of 2 is looking more and more likely.

 

[tonylg]

For the record, I'd welcome a bust up. Tennis is in the toilet and competing tours might actually motivate someone to offer a better product.

 

[OldschoolKIaus]

Honestly I have been waiting for years for Federer to make his own tour. Think the Laver Cup is just the beginning of his takeover.

Will be interesting to see how TTW weighs Federer slams moving forward.

Outlined it a bit here:

That outlined vision is just pure art.

 

[Deon Sanders]

They should just cancel the French Open and never bring it back

 

[BGod]

Well it would depend on the success of the new Davis/Fed Cups and I think an additional 3 tournaments.

3 additional tournaments that would have say a 64 player bracket with Bo3 until QF or SF where it goes Bo5.

Why I say 3 is because of scheduling, sports precedence with the number 7 and geographic locations.

Inbetween AO-FO you have near 4 months. I am certain they wouldn't attempt to directly compete with Sunshine double but February is an open month. Has to be done in warm climate and South America makes most sense as there's no Masters there. Brazil or Argentina obviously. There would have to be good money in it and it would be a clay tournament. The 2nd tournament in April would also be clay and would have to be in Europe but competing with ATP unlikely to be Italy or Spain. Germany makes the most sense here. I don't know the legalities of Hamburg but surely there are German options. The 3rd tournament would almost certainly be both after USO and indoors. Given geography, it would make sense to be in Asia. Again I don't know the legalities if Shanghai could be stolen outright or you'd have another venue in China, South Korea or Japan.

The points system for these secondary tournaments would probably be slightly above 1,000 to make up for less events. I think 1,200 makes sense while Slams would retain 2,000. 1,200 could be even broken down for 800-500-300 point totals.

You'd also have to consider a year ending tournament. Which would probably be back at the O2.

 

[The Blond Blur]

The ITF obviously has the 4 slemz as well as Davis Cup and the Olympics. Since it was the ATP that took away BO5 set Masters1000 and WTF finals (which has contributed to the wussifictation of the men's game) the ITF can bring it back across the board. The ATP can be the boy's league and the ITF can be the men's league. From there, they can create their own events (or bring back defunct tournaments) to fill out their opposing calendars. The ATP has already made a knock off Davis Cup, so they can make knock off slemz.

 

[tonylg]

The ITF obviously has the 4 slemz

They obviously have the French. If the tour fractured do you really think it's obvious that AO and USO would go with the ITF?

 

[The Blond Blur]

They obviously have the French. If the tour fractured do you really think it's obvious that AO and USO would go with the ITF?

Considering they already have them, yes.

 

[tonylg]

Considering they already have them, yes.

Historically, yes. Now, I'd say that's a fluid situation and in the past week both have looked far more aligned with the ATP.

 

[The Blond Blur]

Historically, yes. Now, I'd say that's a fluid situation and in the past week both have looked far more aligned with the ATP.

I think it appears that way because they’re salty the FFT made a power move. The day after the FFT moved RG to its current slot the ITF came out and said that they were suspending all events until June 8th. There must have been meetings with all the tournaments that were being cancelled this year, and when the FFT found out their event was being cancelled they basically took matters into their own hands. With the situation in NY going on, I think that the USTA is just annoyed because now they can't push their event back a week or 2 since RG now claimed that time slot. Also, this year Laver Cup is scheduled to take place in Boston. The USTA must have some hand in helping that event take place in the states. I’m sure they’re pissed that the dates are now conflicting, and the only household names willing to play that vs RG would be Ol’ Rog and Nicky.

I think the reason AELTC hasn’t come out against the FFT is because they know that if the suspension goes on past their time slot they’re screwed since the courts won’t play well in the fall. They’re also a lot more entrenched in their traditions so I can’t see them jumping ship.

As far as Tennis Australia is concerned, they really don't have a leg to stand on after holding a tournament while the host country was burning. That would be like if I invited a bunch of people out of town to my house while my back yard is on fire. They caught a lot of flak for that, so now that someone else is in the doghouse they're getting in their shots.

 

[tonylg]

As far as Tennis Australia is concerned, they really don't have a leg to stand on after holding a tournament while the host country was burning. That would be like if I invited a bunch of people out of town to my house while my back yard is on fire. They caught a lot of flak for that, so now that someone else is in the doghouse they're getting in their shots.

Another one to the ignore list.

 

[The Blond Blur]

Another one to the ignore list.

 

[heftylefty]

I am old enough to remember when the ATP was a Players Union and the tournaments outside of the Slam were independently ran. The ATP set up its own ranking system and lobbied on behalf of players.

Fast forward to today, the ATP now run the tour and we from independent tournaments owners to basically franchisees operating under the umbrella of the ATP.

Up until the late 90s you had an US indoors season and an European indoors season after the US Open. That has vanished. I wish the ATP go back to being a players' union.

 

[OldschoolKIaus]

If ATP returns to Bo5 at Master1000:

Connors in 4.

 

[Third Serve]

Asterisks everywhere.