Whatever happened to the ceramic era racket revolution?

droliver

Professional
Does everyone remember the ceramic revolution in racket tech in the late 1980's?

For a brief period, it was in vogue for all the manufacturers to start incorporating ceramic fibers into many of their models. Just as quickly, it disappeared. All the PR surrounding that material's promise just vaporized. I'm still not sure what it was supposed to have offered. You could make similar observations about boron, kevlar, nanotech graphite, etc...

Watching HEAD jump desperately from tech to tech (Twaron, liquid metal, intelligence fibers, flexpoint, microgel, YouTEK) on an annual basis makes me more and more cynical that there's been little substantive advances in racquet material in 30 years since fiberglass and graphite emerged.
 

Sleepstream

Semi-Pro
What was the last racquet to use ceramic fibers?

I believe Fischer used them in the VT Pro 98 along with the first Pro No 1 racquets. That was in the late 90s early 00s.
 

Tennis Man

Hall of Fame
Does everyone remember the ceramic revolution in racket tech in the late 1980's?

For a brief period, it was in vogue for all the manufacturers to start incorporating ceramic fibers into many of their models. Just as quickly, it disappeared. All the PR surrounding that material's promise just vaporized. I'm still not sure what it was supposed to have offered. You could make similar observations about boron, kevlar, nanotech graphite, etc...

Watching HEAD jump desperately from tech to tech (Twaron, liquid metal, intelligence fibers, flexpoint, microgel, YouTEK) on an annual basis makes me more and more cynical that there's been little substantive advances in racquet material in 30 years since fiberglass and graphite emerged.

I can't speak for ceramic revolution (can't stand composite frames) but in my opinion Head didn't "jump desperately from tech to tech". They have been making great players frames out of graphite from earlier 1980s to mid 2000 when they ended Liquidmetal series. Flexpoint was a flop and I haven't tried anything since but the most successful formula ever (graphite + Boron/Twaron/Kevlar).
 

Princegod

Rookie
I never understood what ceramic was supposed to enhance? Was it supposed to be crisper(?), have more feel(?), stiffer? Or was it simply a case of all marketing? Maybe it had fire retardant capabilities? :D
 

PBODY99

Legend
It seemed to damp vibrations in he Pro Kennex models that I used, the Ceramic Ace which was out of the same mold as the Silver Ace. The lay up was similar with just 5% Ceramic fibers replacing the fiberglass.
 
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vwfye

Semi-Pro
Ceramic was a way to lessen the vibration to the arm. THe issue is that when ceramic fails, it goes to powder.
 

Princegod

Rookie
Found these two links:
http://shopping.msn.com/content/buy...ext=contentname:buyer-s-guide-tennis-racquets
Ceramic. Similar to fiberglass, ceramic materials are used in some composite frames with graphite. Ceramic materials offer stiffness, but their weight and brittleness limit their popularity.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1605554/ceramics_in_sports_how_ceramics_is.html
Ceramic fibers in tennis racquets are said to increase the power on the ball when hit by 15%; it also reduces tennis elbows. Many tennis players would recommend getting a tennis racquets with ceramic fibers. The return ball will have more speed - harder for your opponent to return.
 

Bud

Bionic Poster
I can't speak for ceramic revolution (can't stand composite frames) but in my opinion Head didn't "jump desperately from tech to tech". They have been making great players frames out of graphite from earlier 1980s to mid 2000 when they ended Liquidmetal series. Flexpoint was a flop and I haven't tried anything since but the most successful formula ever (graphite + Boron/Twaron/Kevlar).

You do realize at least 3/4 (actually 87%) of the racquets on your beloved "Wall of Fame" (as well as your Prestige Pro) are composite frames? If you can't stand them, why are you collecting and displaying them? The graphite Pro, one of the best frames ever produced, is graphite and fiberglass composite.

Have you ever bothered hitting with a ceramic frame? They are sweet hits. Open your ears and your mind and you'll learn a thing or two (from those of us you claim don't contribute anything but noise to this board).

I believe silicon carbide is also another name for ceramic (think Wilson SC2000)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_carbide

Perhaps VSB or Retro can educate us all on when Ceramic arose and why it wasn't successful in the long haul. I know the Wilson SC2000 is one awesome frame.


Wilson SC2000 (for sale, BTW :))

P1050831.JPG
 
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Bud

Bionic Poster
I never understood what ceramic was supposed to enhance? Was it supposed to be crisper(?), have more feel(?), stiffer? Or was it simply a case of all marketing? Maybe it had fire retardant capabilities? :D

They definitely seemed to be stiffer frames, as opposed to all graphite or graphite composites (of graphite and fiberglass).

I notice that the majority of ceramic frames are light-colored or white. They also had a tendency to chip very easily. Was the ceramic also in the paint on these racquets or was it a coincidence that they were chip-magnets?

Were there any graphite/ceramic composite frames that were a color other than white?
 
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coachrick

Hall of Fame
They definitely seemed to be stiffer frames, as opposed to all graphite or graphite composites (of graphite and fiberglass).

I notice that the majority of ceramic frames are light-colored or white. They also had a tendency to chip very easily. Was the ceramic also in the paint on these racquets or was it a coincidence that they were chip-magnets?

Were there any graphite/ceramic composite frames that were a color other than white?

Funny how fashion drives so much in the sporting goods industry. The white rackets that 'signaled' ceramic really did look ugly after a few scrapes and chips. Dunlop had a white non-ceramic cheap model that outsold their SC model by a long way--wasn't a bad racket but sold like crazy because of the color.

A couple of ceramic models were really tough on the arm, brittle feeling sticks. Hard hitters enjoyed the Prince Spectrum but non-accomplished players(those who wanted a white racket) had much trouble with the Spectrum and Wilson Ceramic of the time. The Yamaha White Gold series, on the other hand, was a marshmallow of a frame--especially in the full oversize--highest rated racket ever up to that point.

Then, there were those gadawful white and grey grips dyed to go with the white frames. Slicker than your opponent's line calls! Even the rush to white/white string produced some really nasty stuff, brittle, dead--all in the name of fashion.

Yeah, the white color was just a 'suggestion' of ceramic composition. Prince had a special edition Spectrum in bright yellow...a really hot seller for about three weeks!!!
 

Bud

Bionic Poster
Funny how fashion drives so much in the sporting goods industry. The white rackets that 'signaled' ceramic really did look ugly after a few scrapes and chips. Dunlop had a white non-ceramic cheap model that outsold their SC model by a long way--wasn't a bad racket but sold like crazy because of the color.

A couple of ceramic models were really tough on the arm, brittle feeling sticks. Hard hitters enjoyed the Prince Spectrum but non-accomplished players(those who wanted a white racket) had much trouble with the Spectrum and Wilson Ceramic of the time. The Yamaha White Gold series, on the other hand, was a marshmallow of a frame--especially in the full oversize--highest rated racket ever up to that point.

Then, there were those gadawful white and grey grips dyed to go with the white frames. Slicker than your opponent's line calls! Even the rush to white/white string produced some really nasty stuff, brittle, dead--all in the name of fashion.

Yeah, the white color was just a 'suggestion' of ceramic composition. Prince had a special edition Spectrum in bright yellow...a really hot seller for about three weeks!!!

I'd like to see a pic of one of those :)
 

jimbo333

Hall of Fame
I can't speak for ceramic revolution (can't stand composite frames) but in my opinion Head didn't "jump desperately from tech to tech". They have been making great players frames out of graphite from earlier 1980s to mid 2000 when they ended Liquidmetal series. Flexpoint was a flop and I haven't tried anything since but the most successful formula ever (graphite + Boron/Twaron/Kevlar).

I'm sorry, but you seem confused with your terminology. (Graphite + Boron/Twaron/Kevlar) is clearly a composite frame which you apparently can't stand???

The frames you seem to dislike are the ones with lots of fibreglass from what I can understand???

So why not say "I can't stand Composite frames with lots of fibreglass", then in my opinion most people would understand you:)
 

Tennis Man

Hall of Fame
I'm sorry, but you seem confused with your terminology. (Graphite + Boron/Twaron/Kevlar) is clearly a composite frame which you apparently can't stand???

The frames you seem to dislike are the ones with lots of fibreglass from what I can understand???

So why not say "I can't stand Composite frames with lots of fibreglass", then in my opinion most people would understand you:)

Ok, I think I found a solution. How about I put you and Bud in my "ignore" list (never had to do it but I've had it). You girls don't seem to understand what is the main point and focus on "words" out o context, some knots and fly **** when I'm talking about something else. Just ignore my threads if you don't mind.
 

jimbo333

Hall of Fame
Ok, I think I found a solution. How about I put you and Bud in my "ignore" list (never had to do it but I've had it). You girls don't seem to understand what is the main point and focus on "words" out o context, some knots and fly **** when I'm talking about something else. Just ignore my threads if you don't mind.

I don't why you are suddenly having a go at me???

I come on these boards to enjoy myself, learn from people with amazing knowledge like Vsbabolat, Retrowagon (and many others), and supply any knowledge I can to others. You are the only person that's ever been seriously rude to me apart from Deuce (and he dislikes everyone). I'm going to continue to say whatever I like. Hopefully you will change your mind mate!!!
 

Bud

Bionic Poster
Ok, I think I found a solution. How about I put you and Bud in my "ignore" list (never had to do it but I've had it). You girls don't seem to understand what is the main point and focus on "words" out o context, some knots and fly **** when I'm talking about something else. Just ignore my threads if you don't mind.
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I don't why you are suddenly having a go at me???

I come on these boards to enjoy myself, learn from people with amazing knowledge like Vsbabolat, Retrowagon (and many others), and supply any knowledge I can to others. You are the only person that's ever been seriously rude to me apart from Deuce (and he dislikes everyone). I'm going to continue to say whatever I like. Hopefully you will change your mind mate!!!

Everyone is better off ignoring him. He's got absolutely no problem being rude to others members, here. This classic forum was a great place until he showed up and started posting, here with his attitude.
 
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Ross K

Legend
I'm familiar with the following Fischer frames that all had some degree of ceramic I believe - the VT Pro 98, the Pro No 1 (320) and the Pro No 1 (330). I'm no expert on the topic so I can't say quite how much of a factor the ceramic is/was, however I have to say the rich feel and response and feedback of these frames is quite exceptional.

R.
 

Princegod

Rookie
Wow! Those are beauties :)

They are graphite, kevlar, fiberglass and ceramic... they should have just tossed in some boron for good measure ;-)

I know what were they thinking? :D Actually I was cruising the 'bay last night and stumbled across a Weed racquet that did actually have Boron and Ceramic -- a combo I haven't seen. I think Yonex had an off the wall ceramic composite as well, but I'm not too familiar with Yonex racquets.
 

OrangeOne

Legend
I know what were they thinking? :D Actually I was cruising the 'bay last night and stumbled across a Weed racquet that did actually have Boron and Ceramic -- a combo I haven't seen. I think Yonex had an off the wall ceramic composite as well, but I'm not too familiar with Yonex racquets.

I'm sure I played with a 'Fin' frame back in the day that was a Ceramic / Boron composite, I seem to remember thinking it was a bit of everything....
 

schu47

Rookie
Hey Bud,

I think there are a few ceramic racquets that are a different color besides white -- Yamaha produced a whole Ceramic Series of black racquets, beauties too. They came in 90- and 100-sq. in. sizes, at least. They had Gold models, and Silver, and perhaps Bronze? I can't remember. Anyhow, they are solid, terrific racquets, just as good as any 80s graphites, IMO. The Yamaha Ceramic Series Gold, which came out in 1986, was made up of ceramics fibers, graphite, boron, and Kevlar. That about covers the high-tech materials of the time. Not sure what is in the Silver, but probably just a variation on a theme. They certainly don't feel much different from one another.

Yamaha certainly made some sweet frames over the years.


P1020019.JPG


P1020020.JPG


For all of my learned friends on this board, here's a little writeup from a materials testing report done by the Engineering Department of the American University in Cairo about 10 years ago:

"Since the early 1960s, ceramic fibres such as aluminum oxide, (also called alumina [Al203]), silicon carbide (SiC), and boron carbide (B12C3) have been developed mainly for use in heat-resistant composite materials (Ceramics). Many components of helicopters, military aircraft, civil aircraft, missiles, and spacecraft, including satellites and space shuttles, are made from these high-strength, lightweight composites.
Ceramic materials are inorganic compounds, primarily oxides, but also carbides, nitrides, Borides, and silicates. In space technology, ceramic materials and cermets (strong, highly heat-resistant alloys, typically made by mixing, pressing, and then baking an oxide or carbide with a powdered metal) are used to make nose cones, the heat-shield tiles on the space shuttle.
A ceramic material contains both metallic and non-metallic elements. They are used in many applications, such as: bricks, glass, pottery, cooking ware and even the catalytic converter in automobiles exhaust system where it removes harmful elements. They have good properties for high temperature areas, wear, good electrical properties, heat dissipation, long life, strength and hardness, is non corrosive and is relatively lightweight. The disadvantage to ceramics is that they are brittle, not good in high stress areas and they can be very expensive to manufacture for some uses."

So there you have it. I always figured the materials in my tennis racquets would be great for the heat shields on the space shuttle. :)
 

droliver

Professional
I can't speak for ceramic revolution (can't stand composite frames) but in my opinion Head didn't "jump desperately from tech to tech". They have been making great players frames out of graphite from earlier 1980s to mid 2000 when they ended Liquidmetal series. Flexpoint was a flop and I haven't tried anything since but the most successful formula ever (graphite + Boron/Twaron/Kevlar).

I was referring to the marketing of whatever the "flavor of the month" is in materials. I'm fully aware that this is in order to push sales of new racquets, but when you sit back and look at things among players racquets, the design and materials are largely unchanged from the early 1980's in many aspects. Ceramic composites were very heavily marketed at the time and then disappeared.

IMO the only substantive tech that came out since graphite followed fiberglass & aluminum, was the widebody phase in the late 1980's and early 1990's which is largely gone on contemporary racquets. Many of the preferred racquets are again 100% (or nearly so) graphite sticks.
 

Bud

Bionic Poster
I was referring to the marketing of whatever the "flavor of the month" is in materials. I'm fully aware that this is in order to push sales of new racquets, but when you sit back and look at things among players racquets, the design and materials are largely unchanged from the early 1980's in many aspects. Ceramic composites were very heavily marketed at the time and then disappeared.

IMO the only substantive tech that came out since graphite followed fiberglass & aluminum, was the widebody phase in the late 1980's and early 1990's which is largely gone on contemporary racquets. Many of the preferred racquets are again 100% (or nearly so) graphite sticks.

I agree with you. Many of this new technology is just gimicky to sell racquets. They take a smidgen of a substance termed microgel or aerogel and mix it with 99.99999% graphite (or a standard composite) then sell it like it's some sort of groundbreaking technology.
 

Bud

Bionic Poster
Hey Bud,

I think there are a few ceramic racquets that are a different color besides white -- Yamaha produced a whole Ceramic Series of black racquets, beauties too. They came in 90- and 100-sq. in. sizes, at least. They had Gold models, and Silver, and perhaps Bronze? I can't remember. Anyhow, they are solid, terrific racquets, just as good as any 80s graphites, IMO. The Yamaha Ceramic Series Gold, which came out in 1986, was made up of ceramics fibers, graphite, boron, and Kevlar. That about covers the high-tech materials of the time. Not sure what is in the Silver, but probably just a variation on a theme. They certainly don't feel much different from one another.

Yamaha certainly made some sweet frames over the years.

For all of my learned friends on this board, here's a little writeup from a materials testing report done by the Engineering Department of the American University in Cairo about 10 years ago:

"Since the early 1960s, ceramic fibres such as aluminum oxide, (also called alumina [Al203]), silicon carbide (SiC), and boron carbide (B12C3) have been developed mainly for use in heat-resistant composite materials (Ceramics). Many components of helicopters, military aircraft, civil aircraft, missiles, and spacecraft, including satellites and space shuttles, are made from these high-strength, lightweight composites.
Ceramic materials are inorganic compounds, primarily oxides, but also carbides, nitrides, Borides, and silicates. In space technology, ceramic materials and cermets (strong, highly heat-resistant alloys, typically made by mixing, pressing, and then baking an oxide or carbide with a powdered metal) are used to make nose cones, the heat-shield tiles on the space shuttle.
A ceramic material contains both metallic and non-metallic elements. They are used in many applications, such as: bricks, glass, pottery, cooking ware and even the catalytic converter in automobiles exhaust system where it removes harmful elements. They have good properties for high temperature areas, wear, good electrical properties, heat dissipation, long life, strength and hardness, is non corrosive and is relatively lightweight. The disadvantage to ceramics is that they are brittle, not good in high stress areas and they can be very expensive to manufacture for some uses."

So there you have it. I always figured the materials in my tennis racquets would be great for the heat shields on the space shuttle. :)

Thanks Schu! I thought I recalled darker colored ceramic racquets and this confirmed it. I wonder what the whole thing with white ceramic frames was all about... perhaps to catch the consumer's eye... so they quickly identified the frame as the 'new' ceramic technology.
 

Princegod

Rookie
Hey Bud,

I think there are a few ceramic racquets that are a different color besides white -- Yamaha produced a whole Ceramic Series of black racquets, beauties too. They came in 90- and 100-sq. in. sizes, at least. They had Gold models, and Silver, and perhaps Bronze? I can't remember. Anyhow, they are solid, terrific racquets, just as good as any 80s graphites, IMO. The Yamaha Ceramic Series Gold, which came out in 1986, was made up of ceramics fibers, graphite, boron, and Kevlar. That about covers the high-tech materials of the time. Not sure what is in the Silver, but probably just a variation on a theme. They certainly don't feel much different from one another.

Yamaha certainly made some sweet frames over the years.


P1020019.JPG

Very nice! :) What an awesome composite the Gold has! The 80's had some of the most interesting frames ever. Such a wide variety, and most frames were made somewhere else other than China. The frames of today are boring in comparison.
 

Princegod

Rookie
I love the yellow grommets... string... dampener! :grin:

I even went a far a finding some yellow finishing tape for the yellow grip. Did I mention the buttcap is yellow too? :D

LE6.jpg


Also, the Prince Duratred overgrips in yellow were discontinued at least last time I checked, so I kinda use them sparingly.
 

Bud

Bionic Poster
I even went a far a finding some yellow finishing tape for the yellow grip. Did I mention the buttcap is yellow too? :D

LE6.jpg


Also, the Prince Duratred overgrips in yellow were discontinued at least last time I checked, so I kinda use them sparingly.

I'm betting you receive on-court comments about all that yellow :)
 

tball

Semi-Pro
Almost every ceramic racquet I've tried felt horrible to me. That might explain why that fad died out so fast. Has anybody hit with a Ceramic racquet that was any good?
 

pshulam

Hall of Fame
My Slazenger ceramic racket is a solid performer with a soft touch.

I prefer the white Prince Spectrum than the yellow one.
 

plasma

Banned
Cant wait to try my mint spectrum comp, and mint mag pro 90! why no love for the yellow comp??? Those spectrums looked like new BMW's 15 years ago!!! "from a to Zinc!!!"
 

Deuce

Banned
I come on these boards to enjoy myself, learn from people with amazing knowledge like Vsbabolat, Retrowagon (and many others), and supply any knowledge I can to others. You are the only person that's ever been seriously rude to me apart from Deuce (and he dislikes everyone). I'm going to continue to say whatever I like. Hopefully you will change your mind mate!!!
^ Very nice.
And typical.
I'm nowhere near this thread, and you throw out a totally unprovoked, gratuitous cheap shot at me. And you say that I'm rude!

I don't dislike everyone. Only jerks.
I get along quite well with intelligent, honest posters.
It's no mystery which camp you belong to.
 

plasma

Banned
no more personal fights pls. The other sub forums are plagued by it. This place is a temple to me. I wan't thinking and experience related to classic racquets...nothing else pls gentleman...
 

jimbo333

Hall of Fame
^ Very nice.
And typical.
I'm nowhere near this thread, and you throw out a totally unprovoked, gratuitous cheap shot at me. And you say that I'm rude!

I don't dislike everyone. Only jerks.
I get along quite well with intelligent, honest posters.
It's no mystery which camp you belong to.

You are completely out of order, and I won't put up with it.

You are hinting here that I am a jerk and dishonest.

I have done NOTHING to deserve these comments at all. You have made ridiculous claims about hanging racquets on the wall, and did not reply to my questions when I defended myself.

Answer those questions please.

You consistently go around picking arguments, you are a bully and your karma will get you mate!!!
 

Bud

Bionic Poster
You are completely out of order, and I won't put up with it.

You are hinting here that I am a jerk and dishonest.

I have done NOTHING to deserve these comments at all. You have made ridiculous claims about hanging racquets on the wall, and did not reply to my questions when I defended myself.

Answer those questions please.

You consistently go around picking arguments, you are a bully and your karma will get you mate!!!

No worry... 98% of the rest of us here like your forum contributions, Jimbo! Deuce usually acts like a screwball and makes controversial comments that annoy people. It's part of what makes the forums colorful.
 

retrowagen

Hall of Fame
Does everyone remember the ceramic revolution in racket tech in the late 1980's?

For a brief period, it was in vogue for all the manufacturers to start incorporating ceramic fibers into many of their models. Just as quickly, it disappeared. All the PR surrounding that material's promise just vaporized. I'm still not sure what it was supposed to have offered. You could make similar observations about boron, kevlar, nanotech graphite, etc...

Watching HEAD jump desperately from tech to tech (Twaron, liquid metal, intelligence fibers, flexpoint, microgel, YouTEK) on an annual basis makes me more and more cynical that there's been little substantive advances in racquet material in 30 years since fiberglass and graphite emerged.

Wow, what a messy thread!

Yes, Ceramic (silicon carbide) appeared as a composite ingredient circa late 1985. Wilson offered graphite-ceramic composites (the Wilson "Ceramic," in mid and largehead), and Prince with its Spectrum Comp (also in Series 90 and Series 110 [more like 106] sizes). Yamaha was quick to follow, as also was Kneissl and Fischer, and indeed, others.

The buzz about ceramics was its replacement of Boron as a cheaper stiffness enhancer with better feel attributes. Boron frames were perceived to be arm killers at the time; ceramic composites had a friendlier feel but were in actuality often more flexy than Kevlar-enhanced frames out of the same molds. However, they shed vibration at a different cycle and thus "felt" more brittle. Structurally, I don't think they were either better or worse than other composites, ATBE, in terms of being fragile.

The white graphics of the ceramic frames was a natural acquiescence to an industry trend, which was likely started not only from the concept of a ceramic frame (think bathroom fixtures), but also the preponderance of Kneissl frames (all white, non-ceramic models) in many of the finals throughout 1985 on the mens' and womens' tours. Miami Vice was at its peak, too, we'll recall. As a sidebar, the yellow Prince Spectrum special editions were really garish, but so was the decent-selling Spalding "Taxi" of the same time. Anyone remember that one?

What killed "ceramics" from the main market manufacturers was the widebody revolution of 1988/1989. Amazing stiffness could be achieved with a fat frame instead of with fancy composites. And ceramic frames were largely misunderstood. Some of my tennis mates derided them as "toilet racquets." That so many of them were white didn't help...

However, Fischer soldiered on through the 2000's with it as an ingredient in its top frames. At one point in the 90's, virtually every Fischer non-alloy frame had silicon carbide in its layup. Some would argue it is one of the reasons for the trademark Fischer ball feel. I would.

To the OP: Head's technology was pretty sincere and down-to-earth (that is, devoid of too much marketing hype) until the introduction of the Widebodies in 1990. Twaron (used from 1986 models on) is a Kevlar-like aramide fiber, not really a gimmick like "Liquidmetal" or piezoelectric do-hickys, or flexholes, or squishygraphite or whatever. The Ti series of frames were pretty conventional; subsequent "tech" series after that, really marketing exercises, sad to say.
 
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schu47

Rookie
Wow, what a messy thread!

Yes, Ceramic (silicon carbide) appeared as a composite ingredient circa late 1985. Wilson offered graphite-ceramic composites (the Wilson "Ceramic," in mid and largehead), and Prince with its Spectrum Comp (also in Series 90 and Series 110 [more like 106] sizes). Yamaha was quick to follow, as also was Kneissl and Fischer, and indeed, others.

The buzz about ceramics was its replacement of Boron as a cheaper stiffness enhancer with better feel attributes. Boron frames were perceived to be arm killers at the time; ceramic composites had a friendlier feel but were in actuality often more flexy than Kevlar-enhanced frames out of the same molds. However, they shed vibration at a different cycle and thus "felt" more brittle. Structurally, I don't think they were either better or worse than other composites, ATBE, in terms of being fragile.

The white graphics of the ceramic frames was a natural acquiescence to an industry trend, which was likely started not only from the concept of a ceramic frame (think bathroom fixtures), but also the preponderance of Kneissl frames (all white, non-ceramic models) in many of the finals throughout 1985 on the mens' and womens' tours. Miami Vice was at its peak, too, we'll recall. As a sidebar, the yellow Prince Spectrum special editions were really garish, but so was the decent-selling Spalding "Taxi" of the same time. Anyone remember that one?

What killed "ceramics" from the main market manufacturers was the widebody revolution of 1988/1989. Amazing stiffness could be achieved with a fat frame instead of with fancy composites. And ceramic frames were largely misunderstood. Some of my tennis mates derided them as "toilet racquets." That so many of them were white didn't help...

However, Fischer soldiered on through the 2000's with it as an ingredient in its top frames. At one point in the 90's, virtually every Fischer non-alloy frame had silicon carbide in its layup. Some would argue it is one of the reasons for the trademark Fischer ball feel. I would.

To the OP: Head's technology was pretty sincere and down-to-earth (that is, devoid of too much marketing hype) until the introduction of the Widebodies in 1990. Twaron (used from 1986 models on) is a Kevlar-like aramide fiber, not really a gimmick like "Liquidmetal" or piezoelectric do-hickys, or flexholes, or squishygraphite or whatever. The Ti series of frames were pretty conventional; subsequent "tech" series after that, really marketing exercises, sad to say.

Retro,
Thanks for bringing sanity and solid, wonderful information to these threads, as always.

Given the negative connotation of "ceramic," racquetmakers probably would have been better off just calling their frames "composites."

BTW, since you mentioned it, here's the Spalding Taxi -- this one's a Taxi II, so there must have been an original, popular Taxi I. It is, like the Prince Special Edition, very yellow, and has some nifty taxi graphics.

I have another Spalding from the same general time called the Denim Cut-Offs, which is even wackier. It's "cut off" to about 25 1/2", even though it's an adult racquet, has a blue-jeans paintjob and even a denim head cover. It is, appropriately enough for this thread, a graphite/ceramic composite.

Not sure what the folks at Spalding were smoking in those days, but the racquets aren't boring, at least. And the Taxi II is a pretty nice racquet, as well -- 90 sq. in., graphite composite. The Denim, on the other hand, is very short.


P4020434.JPG


P4020436.JPG



P1020846.JPG
 

Bud

Bionic Poster
Retro,
Thanks for bringing sanity and solid, wonderful information to these threads, as always.

Given the negative connotation of "ceramic," racquetmakers probably would have been better off just calling their frames "composites."

BTW, since you mentioned it, here's the Spalding Taxi -- this one's a Taxi II, so there must have been an original, popular Taxi I. It is, like the Prince Special Edition, very yellow, and has some nifty taxi graphics.

I have another Spalding from the same general time called the Denim Cut-Offs, which is even wackier. It's "cut off" to about 25 1/2", even though it's an adult racquet, has a blue-jeans paintjob and even a denim head cover. It is, appropriately enough for this thread, a graphite/ceramic composite.

Not sure what the folks at Spalding were smoking in those days, but the racquets aren't boring, at least. And the Taxi II is a pretty nice racquet, as well -- 90 sq. in., graphite composite. The Denim, on the other hand, is very short.


P4020434.JPG


P4020436.JPG



P1020846.JPG

Those a great looking (and wacky) frames. I've seen them around on fleabay.
 
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Tennis Man

Hall of Fame
What killed "ceramics" from the main market manufacturers was the widebody revolution of 1988/1989. Amazing stiffness could be achieved with a fat frame instead of with fancy composites. And ceramic frames were largely misunderstood. Some of my tennis mates derided them as "toilet racquets." That so many of them were white didn't help...

However, Fischer soldiered on through the 2000's with it as an ingredient in its top frames. At one point in the 90's, virtually every Fischer non-alloy frame had silicon carbide in its layup. Some would argue it is one of the reasons for the trademark Fischer ball feel. I would.

To the OP: Head's technology was pretty sincere and down-to-earth (that is, devoid of too much marketing hype) until the introduction of the Widebodies in 1990. Twaron (used from 1986 models on) is a Kevlar-like aramide fiber, not really a gimmick like "Liquidmetal" or piezoelectric do-hickys, or flexholes, or squishygraphite or whatever. The Ti series of frames were pretty conventional; subsequent "tech" series after that, really marketing exercises, sad to say.

Dave, I have 2 questions for you related to the above:

1. Could you explain why many manufacturers specifically display wording like "graphite" on more expensive models or "composite" ("comp") on the cheaper ones. I'm sure your opinion would be appreciated here.

2. What are the best Fischer mid-size pro player frames in your opinion, not necessarily ceramic.

Thank you.
 

vsbabolat

G.O.A.T.
^^^^^^^^^^^^
from Much Ado About Modulus The Graphite Story by Crawford Lindsey

There is no such thing as a 100% graphite racquet. At least 40% of a frame’s material is resin, or matrix, as it is more commonly known. Hyper or not, graphite fiber is actually useless without the resin matrix which binds the fibers, transfers the load to the fibers, and protects them. Together, the fiber and matrix make up the composite. The strength and stiffness of the composite will fall somewhere between those of the fiber and matrix.
 

jimbo333

Hall of Fame
Retro,


I have another Spalding from the same general time called the Denim Cut-Offs, which is even wackier. It's "cut off" to about 25 1/2", even though it's an adult racquet, has a blue-jeans paintjob and even a denim head cover. It is, appropriately enough for this thread, a graphite/ceramic composite.

The Denim, on the other hand, is very short.



P1020846.JPG

What a wacky looking racquet, like it:)
 

retrowagen

Hall of Fame
1. Could you explain why many manufacturers specifically display wording like "graphite" on more expensive models or "composite" ("comp") on the cheaper ones. I'm sure your opinion would be appreciated here.

Well, with Prince it was obvious; those were the model names of their Graphite and Composite (80/20 G/F, IIRC) frames, back when they only had three or four models, two of which were aluminum frames. HEAD's use of the word Composite in their model naming scheme dates from 1984 with the introduction of the Composite Edge and Composite Director, bolstering the Composite and Tournament Edges and Directors. For the myriad of other manufacturers, the reasons have to be varied. I suppose they could have used "Graphite/Fiberglass" (sic Fiberglas), but in some places, Owens-Corning held TM for fiberglass, not unlike DuPont with their Kevlar or Enka BV with Twaron. But in a nutshell, I dunno. I could postulate for hours. It would be boring stuff to read and I do have a life :)

2. What are the best Fischer mid-size pro player frames in your opinion, not necessarily ceramic.
Well, Fischer has hung their hat mostly on the 630 cm2 head size (98 sq-in) for their performance frames for quite some time now, but they have made some noteworthy performance Mids over the years. Here's a shortlist:

The Superform Stan Smith or Superform XL have to be considered. My hero, Anders Jarryd, did quite well with these. So did my other hero, Stan "The Man" Smith!
The Superform Open (open throat models) from 1986 on should be included. They were Fischer's first high end open throat composites, moving them conservatively away from the monoshaft designs which were their trademark.
The Vacuum Twin Tec Pro was a fabulous frame (used by Carl-Uwe Steeb at the height of his career), and very technically interesting. I think it measured in at around 95 sq-in. The first two versions of that frame are still highly prized by the cognoscenti, mostly in Europe.
The Vacuum Pro (90 sq-in), the highly regarded frame made famous by Michael Stich, needs no introduction to this audience and has to be the most famous of all the high performance Fischer Mids.
 

jimbo333

Hall of Fame
Wow, what a messy thread!

Yes, Ceramic (silicon carbide) appeared as a composite ingredient circa late 1985. Wilson offered graphite-ceramic composites (the Wilson "Ceramic," in mid and largehead), and Prince with its Spectrum Comp (also in Series 90 and Series 110 [more like 106] sizes). Yamaha was quick to follow, as also was Kneissl and Fischer, and indeed, others.

The buzz about ceramics was its replacement of Boron as a cheaper stiffness enhancer with better feel attributes. Boron frames were perceived to be arm killers at the time; ceramic composites had a friendlier feel but were in actuality often more flexy than Kevlar-enhanced frames out of the same molds. However, they shed vibration at a different cycle and thus "felt" more brittle. Structurally, I don't think they were either better or worse than other composites, ATBE, in terms of being fragile.

The white graphics of the ceramic frames was a natural acquiescence to an industry trend, which was likely started not only from the concept of a ceramic frame (think bathroom fixtures), but also the preponderance of Kneissl frames (all white, non-ceramic models) in many of the finals throughout 1985 on the mens' and womens' tours. Miami Vice was at its peak, too, we'll recall. As a sidebar, the yellow Prince Spectrum special editions were really garish, but so was the decent-selling Spalding "Taxi" of the same time. Anyone remember that one?

What killed "ceramics" from the main market manufacturers was the widebody revolution of 1988/1989. Amazing stiffness could be achieved with a fat frame instead of with fancy composites. And ceramic frames were largely misunderstood. Some of my tennis mates derided them as "toilet racquets." That so many of them were white didn't help...

However, Fischer soldiered on through the 2000's with it as an ingredient in its top frames. At one point in the 90's, virtually every Fischer non-alloy frame had silicon carbide in its layup. Some would argue it is one of the reasons for the trademark Fischer ball feel. I would.

To the OP: Head's technology was pretty sincere and down-to-earth (that is, devoid of too much marketing hype) until the introduction of the Widebodies in 1990. Twaron (used from 1986 models on) is a Kevlar-like aramide fiber, not really a gimmick like "Liquidmetal" or piezoelectric do-hickys, or flexholes, or squishygraphite or whatever. The Ti series of frames were pretty conventional; subsequent "tech" series after that, really marketing exercises, sad to say.

As usual fantastic informative information:)
 
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