Whatever happened to the ceramic era racket revolution?

Your wish is my command. :lol:
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^^^And this, my friends, is the finest frame ever made. I had one in HS, later sold it to a friend to get the Agassi Pro One. Big mistake. Finally, about 7 yrs ago, found a used Spectrum Comp 110 on the 'bay and got my first love back :) I strung it up recently with NXT OS, and it plays sweet; just as I remember it. I liked this one better than the Original Graphite. (Maybe it was the color!)

Great pics, Princegod
 
So did the earlier GTX Pro have kevlar in it?

So what is composition of GTX Pro?

And Lendl apparently used the GTX Pro throughout his career (later paint jobbed as GTX Pro-T and Mizuno) and didn't actually use the GTX Pro-T at all?

Anyone know the answers please?
 
The first version of the Adidas Lendl GTX Pro was indeed a paintjobbed Kneissl White Star Lendl Pro. Made in the Kneissl factory in Kufstein, Tirol, Austria, and same composition of Graphite/Fiberglass/Kevlar.

Then Adidas bought the moulds and began producing the frame in a factory in France. This generation, and the subsequent ones, did not have Kevlar in them, but were Graphite-Fiberglass composites. Back in Austria, Kneissl carried on with the (G/F/K) White Star Pro Masters, having lost the Lendl endorsement a year or two before.

The Lendl GTX Pro-T was merely a 1985 cosmetic update of the French GTX Pro, and did not change the layup. This generation did seem across the board to be progressively lighter in weight than the previous one, however.
 
The first version of the Adidas Lendl GTX Pro was indeed a paintjobbed Kneissl White Star Lendl Pro. Made in the Kneissl factory in Kufstein, Tirol, Austria, and same composition of Graphite/Fiberglass/Kevlar.

Then Adidas bought the moulds and began producing the frame in a factory in France. This generation, and the subsequent ones, did not have Kevlar in them, but were Graphite-Fiberglass composites. Back in Austria, Kneissl carried on with the (G/F/K) White Star Pro Masters, having lost the Lendl endorsement a year or two before.

The Lendl GTX Pro-T was merely a 1985 cosmetic update of the French GTX Pro, and did not change the layup. This generation did seem across the board to be progressively lighter in weight than the previous one, however.

As always this is superb information thanks:)

From what I've heard then, Lendl never used any of the standard GTX PRO (T) racquets made in France, his personal racquets always had Kevlar in them from 81 onwards?

(I now think this post is wrong, see below)
 
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The first version of the Adidas Lendl GTX Pro was indeed a paintjobbed Kneissl White Star Lendl Pro. Made in the Kneissl factory in Kufstein, Tirol, Austria, and same composition of Graphite/Fiberglass/Kevlar.

Then Adidas bought the moulds and began producing the frame in a factory in France. This generation, and the subsequent ones, did not have Kevlar in them, but were Graphite-Fiberglass composites. Back in Austria, Kneissl carried on with the (G/F/K) White Star Pro Masters, having lost the Lendl endorsement a year or two before.

The Lendl GTX Pro-T was merely a 1985 cosmetic update of the French GTX Pro, and did not change the layup. This generation did seem across the board to be progressively lighter in weight than the previous one, however.

Having read other information elsewhere, I've realised that what you've said above differs slightly from the perceived wisdom about these racquets!

I actually think that what you've said above is exactly correct, but others may disagree!

I've realised my previous post is likely to me entirely wrong. It seems Lendl maybe never used a racquet with Kevlar in it, I'll try and explain my theory in next post:)
 
I'm really interested in this as it rare for a player to use exactly the same racquet for his entire career, and yes I know there are exceptions, and many players use a very similar racquet, but Lendl seemed to use the exact same racquet for about 15 years on the Pro circuit!

I still havn't found any proof of his pre 79 White Star Pro, but from 79 his Kneissl White Star Pro was Graphite/Fibreglass. He then switched to Adidas at the beginning of 81 and used paint job of this Kneissl White Star Pro racquet, that's all that I know for definite!

I then reckon he continued to use this Graphite/Fibreglass Kneissl White Star Pro paint job racquet until Adidas started making this racquet in France as GTX PRO Ivan Lendl, and when the slight changes were made in 85 for the slightly lighter GTX PRO-T Ivan Lendl, he continued to use the original French made GTX PRO Ivan Lendl version (which was actually his Kneissl White Star Pro) in paint jobs (GTX PRO-T Ivan Lendl and then Mizuno Ivan Lendl) through until the end of his career. Only using a Bosworth version (slightly different smaller mold) of the larger GTX MID-T Ivan Lendl at Wimbledon in 85 and the Mizuno Lendl (90sq in) at Queens and Wimbledon in 90, and the larger Bosworth custom frame a few times in 93 and 94.

So I reckon Lendl never used any of the Kevlar racquets; the Kneissl White Star Pro Ivan Lendl (which we already know to be the case), but also the Austrian made GTX PRO and Austrian made GTX PRO Ivan Lendl!

This is my theory:)

I wonder what others think?
 
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I have one of Lendl's GTX-Pro T and it says made in France on it.....According to Kneissl the White Star Pro came out in 1978.
Kneissl develops the first fully synthetic tennis racket “White Star Pro”, a real “silver bullet”
http://www.kneissl.com/
 
I have one of Lendl's GTX-Pro T and it says made in France on it.....According to Kneissl the White Star Pro came out in 1978.
Kneissl develops the first fully synthetic tennis racket “White Star Pro”, a real “silver bullet”
http://www.kneissl.com/

Thanks:)

But I still think the first commercially available Kneissl White Star Pro was the one from 79 with the blue/green chevron on it on the throat. Nobodies shown me any evidence that this is not the case. Lendl might have been using a custom Kneissl White Star Pro in 78 or even 77 but I've seen no evidence it went to the public to buy until 79 in the blue/green chevron version?

By the way I've started a new thread about this in the Pro Racquet section if anyone is interested, as this has nothing to do with Ceramic rackets as far as I'm aware!
 
I'm really interested in this as it rare for a player to use exactly the same racquet for his entire career, and yes I know there are exceptions, and many players use a very similar racquet, but Lendl seemed to use the exact same racquet for about 15 years on the Pro circuit!

I still havn't found any proof of his pre 79 White Star Pro, but from 79 his Kneissl White Star Pro was Graphite/Fibreglass. He then switched to Adidas at the beginning of 81 and used paint job of this Kneissl White Star Pro racquet, that's all that I know for definite!

I then reckon he continued to use this Graphite/Fibreglass Kneissl White Star Pro paint job racquet until Adidas started making this racquet in France as GTX PRO Ivan Lendl, and when the slight changes were made in 85 for the slightly lighter GTX PRO-T Ivan Lendl, he continued to use the original French made GTX PRO Ivan Lendl version (which was actually his Kneissl White Star Pro) in paint jobs (GTX PRO-T Ivan Lendl and then Mizuno Ivan Lendl) through until the end of his career. Only using a Bosworth version (slightly smaller mold) of the GTX MID-T Ivan Lendl at Wimbledon in 85 and the Mizuno Lendl (90sq in) at Queens and Wimbledon in 90, and the larger Bosworth custom frame a few times in 93 and 94.

So I reckon Lendl never used any of the Kevlar racquets; the Kneissl White Star Pro Ivan Lendl (which we already know to be the case), but also the Austrian made GTX PRO and Austrian made GTX PRO Ivan Lendl!

This is my theory:)

I wonder what others think?

Jon, that's a sound theory, but I'd imagine only IL and/or Warren Bosworth know the absolute truth.

I had more than a passing interest in these Kneissl and Adidas frames as a junior playing tournaments in the mid-80's. I used the Kneissl White Star Pro Masters in 1983-1984 (the G/F/K layup), then switched to the Adidas Lendl GTX Pro (G/F, France) for tournaments in 1985 (I was fully kitted out in Adidas Lendl gear, looked like a mini-Lendl as did a few other kids that year), then to the Kneissl Masters 10 in 1986-1987. Then Kneissl stopped producing these wonderful frames. I didn't like the Adidas as much as the Kneissls; in stock L3 form it was almost 1 ounce heavier (at 13 ozs.), less head-light, and felt a great deal stiffer overall... not the easiest frame for a Junior to play, although many of Germany's top juniors did use the Lendl GTX Pro (including Boris Becker and Claudia Kohde-Kilsch). But for me as a 8-stone, 15-year-old stick of a kid, it was an arm killer. I did work up a pretty nice Popeye/Guillermo Vilas forearm that year, swinging that club 4-6 hours a day in training and matches!

I have an old magazine article which took specs from one of Lendl's GTX Pro-T's in 1986. It reported a total weight of 14 ozs, achieved with 5.2 grams of lead tape added to the inner hoop. The frame thus measured 1/2 inch head light (4 points?) and was strung with his signature Bow Brand gut at 72.5 pounds of tension.

My theory, Jon, is that Lendl used the White Star Pro (G/F) in his Juniors, then Kneissl made the WS Lendl Pro, adding Kevlar to the layup to help strengthen and lighten the frame and make it more palatable to the average player. I'd guess that Lendl continued using the White Star Pro (non-Kevlar) with the minor addition of the "Lendl" name on the throat (a minor "paintjob"), and then used the same Kneissls with Adidas paint once his contract with Kneissl switched over to Adidas. Once the French factory came on-line, I'd say all evidence points to his use of the French frames, all tweaked by Bosworth to a standardized custom weight and balance spec (and with his signature suede 4-5/8" grip). But, I'd repeat, only Mssrs. Lendl and Bosworth know the whole story.
 
Jon, that's a sound theory, but I'd imagine only IL and/or Warren Bosworth know the absolute truth.

I had more than a passing interest in these Kneissl and Adidas frames as a junior playing tournaments in the mid-80's. I used the Kneissl White Star Pro Masters in 1983-1984 (the G/F/K layup), then switched to the Adidas Lendl GTX Pro (G/F, France) for tournaments in 1985 (I was fully kitted out in Adidas Lendl gear, looked like a mini-Lendl as did a few other kids that year), then to the Kneissl Masters 10 in 1986-1987. Then Kneissl stopped producing these wonderful frames. I didn't like the Adidas as much as the Kneissls; in stock L3 form it was almost 1 ounce heavier (at 13 ozs.), less head-light, and felt a great deal stiffer overall... not the easiest frame for a Junior to play, although many of Germany's top juniors did use the Lendl GTX Pro (including Boris Becker and Claudia Kohde-Kilsch). But for me as a 8-stone, 15-year-old stick of a kid, it was an arm killer. I did work up a pretty nice Popeye/Guillermo Vilas forearm that year, swinging that club 4-6 hours a day in training and matches!

I have an old magazine article which took specs from one of Lendl's GTX Pro-T's in 1986. It reported a total weight of 14 ozs, achieved with 5.2 grams of lead tape added to the inner hoop. The frame thus measured 1/2 inch head light (4 points?) and was strung with his signature Bow Brand gut at 72.5 pounds of tension.

My theory, Jon, is that Lendl used the White Star Pro (G/F) in his Juniors, then Kneissl made the WS Lendl Pro, adding Kevlar to the layup to help strengthen and lighten the frame and make it more palatable to the average player. I'd guess that Lendl continued using the White Star Pro (non-Kevlar) with the minor addition of the "Lendl" name on the throat (a minor "paintjob"), and then used the same Kneissls with Adidas paint once his contract with Kneissl switched over to Adidas. Once the French factory came on-line, I'd say all evidence points to his use of the French frames, all tweaked by Bosworth to a standardized custom weight and balance spec (and with his signature suede 4-5/8" grip). But, I'd repeat, only Mssrs. Lendl and Bosworth know the whole story.

Thanks Dave, I've learnt more about this from your 2 posts than anywhere else over the last few weeks!

And I met Lendl briefly at the US Open and instead of asking for his autograph, I should have asked if he ever had Kevlar in the layup of his racquets:)

I'm really pleased that my theory matches yours, and yes Lendl/Bosworth did add lead to his racquets in late 80's and early 90's, depending on the surface etc.

Is there any chance you could please post your last reply in the thread I just started in Pro Racquets? Just in case anyone else is interested in this, and then leave this thread for ceramic racquets!

(Actually I just copied this into the other thread)
 
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Basalt = Ceramic

Basalt is basically a naturally occurring form of silicon carbide composite... ie ceramic. So Basalt frames are ceramic racquets (and there is very very little of it in them I suspect).

Back in the 80's my lil brother played with a SC95 dunlop and had that thing weighted to nearly 13 oz. It was a really nice frame, box beam and thin profiled.

Basically ceramics are a dampening material and new forms of ceramic composite can be very tough materials.
 
Well, with Prince it was obvious; those were the model names of their Graphite and Composite (80/20 G/F, IIRC) frames, back when they only had three or four models, two of which were aluminum frames. HEAD's use of the word Composite in their model naming scheme dates from 1984 with the introduction of the Composite Edge and Composite Director, bolstering the Composite and Tournament Edges and Directors. For the myriad of other manufacturers, the reasons have to be varied. I suppose they could have used "Graphite/Fiberglass" (sic Fiberglas), but in some places, Owens-Corning held TM for fiberglass, not unlike DuPont with their Kevlar or Enka BV with Twaron. But in a nutshell, I dunno. I could postulate for hours. It would be boring stuff to read and I do have a life :)


Well, Fischer has hung their hat mostly on the 630 cm2 head size (98 sq-in) for their performance frames for quite some time now, but they have made some noteworthy performance Mids over the years. Here's a shortlist:

The Superform Stan Smith or Superform XL have to be considered. My hero, Anders Jarryd, did quite well with these. So did my other hero, Stan "The Man" Smith!
The Superform Open (open throat models) from 1986 on should be included. They were Fischer's first high end open throat composites, moving them conservatively away from the monoshaft designs which were their trademark.
The Vacuum Twin Tec Pro was a fabulous frame (used by Carl-Uwe Steeb at the height of his career), and very technically interesting. I think it measured in at around 95 sq-in. The first two versions of that frame are still highly prized by the cognoscenti, mostly in Europe.
The Vacuum Pro (90 sq-in), the highly regarded frame made famous by Michael Stich, needs no introduction to this audience and has to be the most famous of all the high performance Fischer Mids.
Well, with Prince it was obvious; those were the model names of their Graphite and Composite (80/20 G/F, IIRC) frames, back when they only had three or four models, two of which were aluminum frames. HEAD's use of the word Composite in their model naming scheme dates from 1984 with the introduction of the Composite Edge and Composite Director, bolstering the Composite and Tournament Edges and Directors. For the myriad of other manufacturers, the reasons have to be varied. I suppose they could have used "Graphite/Fiberglass" (sic Fiberglas), but in some places, Owens-Corning held TM for fiberglass, not unlike DuPont with their Kevlar or Enka BV with Twaron. But in a nutshell, I dunno. I could postulate for hours. It would be boring stuff to read and I do have a life :)


Well, Fischer has hung their hat mostly on the 630 cm2 head size (98 sq-in) for their performance frames for quite some time now, but they have made some noteworthy performance Mids over the years. Here's a shortlist:

The Superform Stan Smith or Superform XL have to be considered. My hero, Anders Jarryd, did quite well with these. So did my other hero, Stan "The Man" Smith!
The Superform Open (open throat models) from 1986 on should be included. They were Fischer's first high end open throat composites, moving them conservatively away from the monoshaft designs which were their trademark.
The Vacuum Twin Tec Pro was a fabulous frame (used by Carl-Uwe Steeb at the height of his career), and very technically interesting. I think it measured in at around 95 sq-in. The first two versions of that frame are still highly prized by the cognoscenti, mostly in Europe.
The Vacuum Pro (90 sq-in), the highly regarded frame made famous by Michael Stich, needs no introduction to this audience and has to be the most famous of all the high performance Fischer Mids.
I recently get a brand new Fischer superform Open, not the red pro version, just the 1986 version without tuning system, do you know who ever played with it? thanks!
 
I recently get a brand new Fischer superform Open, not the red pro version, just the 1986 version without tuning system, do you know who ever played with it? thanks!
It seemed as though the Fischer-sponsored ATP and WTA pros didn’t really warm up to the double-shafted Superform Open in 1986. Anders Jarryd carried on with a paintjobbed Stan Smith (monoshaft) Superform, and made the switch to the new Vacuum Pro Mid in 1987, for instance. I recall there were some journeyman (journeywoman?) pros from Austria, such as Gilbert Schnaller, who used the new Superform Open in 1986, but probably the highest ranked player who used this frame was Jo Durie of Great Britain.
 
I have found pics of Jo Durie playing with it, great and thanks!
I have got brand new Superform Stand smith standard (the one with color decal,circa 1979), a brand new superform Stan Smith Midsize (the one Stan Smith and Jarryd both played with, Circa 1985), and the aforementioned Open version, now I am dreaming to get a brand new 1987 red Open Pro, haha.
again,thanks!
 
I have found pics of Jo Durie playing with it, great and thanks!
I have got brand new Superform Stand smith standard (the one with color decal,circa 1979), a brand new superform Stan Smith Midsize (the one Stan Smith and Jarryd both played with, Circa 1985), and the aforementioned Open version, now I am dreaming to get a brand new 1987 red Open Pro, haha.
again,thanks!
You’re welcome!
If you really want an unused red 1987 Open Pro, I might be able to help. Send me an email at retrowagen@yahoo.com.
 
Dave, I have 2 questions for you related to the above:

1. Could you explain why many manufacturers specifically display wording like "graphite" on more expensive models or "composite" ("comp") on the cheaper ones. I'm sure your opinion would be appreciated here.

2. What are the best Fischer mid-size pro player frames in your opinion, not necessarily ceramic.

Thank you.
Fischer Vacuum Pro Ms/90! Best racquet ever
 
I have found pics of Jo Durie playing with it, great and thanks!
I have got brand new Superform Stand smith standard (the one with color decal,circa 1979), a brand new superform Stan Smith Midsize (the one Stan Smith and Jarryd both played with, Circa 1985), and the aforementioned Open version, now I am dreaming to get a brand new 1987 red Open Pro, haha.
again,thanks!
Does anyone think the Superform series was the MAX 200G of its day? I know they talked a lot about the power(I tied for first in a fast-serve contest using the Superform---a YAMAHA contest!!!!!); but the obvious similarity in frame/tube design makes me think Fischer was on to something and gave up too soon. Of course, Johnny Mac's switch was the perfect storm for the success of the 200G...no such switch with Fischer, of course.
 
Does anyone think the Superform series was the MAX 200G of its day? I know they talked a lot about the power(I tied for first in a fast-serve contest using the Superform---a YAMAHA contest!!!!!); but the obvious similarity in frame/tube design makes me think Fischer was on to something and gave up too soon. Of course, Johnny Mac's switch was the perfect storm for the success of the 200G...no such switch with Fischer, of course.
I am big fan of vintage frames, Fischer superform series and Dunlop Max200G were both charming collections for me. in my view, Fisccher paid less attention to their racket business than Dunlop. whatever, I am still looking for brand new Fischer superform and dunlop max200G versions as my collection.
 
Spalding Graphite Accomplice.
85in2 Head Size. 330g Strung Weight. 14x18 String Pattern (not common?).
Cover claims that it’s a Ceramic/Graphite Composite, yet on the racquet itself it says Graphite Fiberglass Composite.
Does anyone know any more details/background on this model?
chevron gas station with diesel
 
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Spalding Graphite Accomplice.
85in2 Head Size. 330g Strung Weight. 14x18 String Pattern (not common?).
Cover claims that it’s a Ceramic/Graphite Composite, yet on the racquet itself it says Graphite Fiberglass Composite.
Does anyone know any more details/background on this model?
chevron gas station with diesel
I know Spalding Accomplice wood racket. In 1979, Spalding introduced a beautiful boron composite reinforced wood frame, Spalding Accomplice, which was regarded as one of the most beautiful wood frame ever made. American Dick Stockton switched to it from Wilson Advantage, another ultra-beautiful wood frame. In my view, yours was a following version of early wood frames.
 
I know Spalding Accomplice wood racket. In 1979, Spalding introduced a beautiful boron composite reinforced wood frame, Spalding Accomplice, which was regarded as one of the most beautiful wood frame ever made. American Dick Stockton switched to it from Wilson Advantage, another ultra-beautiful wood frame. In my view, yours was a following version of early wood frames.
Thanks for that. Hopefully then as much consideration of the design and performance of the original Accomplice was put into its graphite ceramic successor.
 
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