RajS
Semi-Pro
The answer... it also has some interesting observations.
What's it like to face a 150 MPH serve?
- Thread starter RajS
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happyloman
Semi-Pro
awesome find
Gazelle
G.O.A.T.
Maximax would have been crushed by LeeD if the latter had gotten those 150MPH serves inside the box. Max was very lucky that day.
WildVolley
Legend
I've witnessed serves in the mid-140mph range from seats just behind the baseline. If the returner doesn't read the serve direction he just doesn't have time to get to the ball. The fastest serves I've seen of this sort were hit by Sam Groth and Gulbis.
This year at IW, Gulbis dropped at least 2 serves at 145mph down the T. He also hit one at 154mph that caught the tape and didn't go over. A body serve at that pace would be frightening because there is so little time to react. Remember how embarrassed Santoro became when Roddick body served him at over 140mph and he had to duck it at the US Open?
This year at IW, Gulbis dropped at least 2 serves at 145mph down the T. He also hit one at 154mph that caught the tape and didn't go over. A body serve at that pace would be frightening because there is so little time to react. Remember how embarrassed Santoro became when Roddick body served him at over 140mph and he had to duck it at the US Open?
Enga
Hall of Fame
Seems kinda scary. Especially if it bounces towards head height because your opponent is so tall.
Though, I guess if you play tennis all day every day, theres probably little risk of getting pelted by a serve. Stkll, I remember seeing Nadal get hit in the face by Roddick's serve after he framed the ball. He didnt look hurt, but if the ball hit his eye it could have been game over for anyone's career.
Though, I guess if you play tennis all day every day, theres probably little risk of getting pelted by a serve. Stkll, I remember seeing Nadal get hit in the face by Roddick's serve after he framed the ball. He didnt look hurt, but if the ball hit his eye it could have been game over for anyone's career.
mightyrick
Legend
I hit with a guy who hits in the 120s and sometimes low 130s. I don't return most of his serves, but I agree with Ash... you do get a read after awhile. As long as you can get racquet on it cleanly... all you need to do is redirect it.
However, the second they throw any spin on it... it is a nightmare. I have to stand right on the baseline to even have a chance. If you don't take those serves early, they move way too much to remotely have a chance of returning it cleanly.
However, the second they throw any spin on it... it is a nightmare. I have to stand right on the baseline to even have a chance. If you don't take those serves early, they move way too much to remotely have a chance of returning it cleanly.
tennis4me
Hall of Fame
I've only played against someone who said he used to serve at 120s (when he used to play for D-1 college). He told me that when I asked him after the friendly match, how fast he thought the serve that he served right at my body was (I had to duck
). Had absolutely no time to react. It can get scary, but I think if I have enough practice, I can get used to it.
). Had absolutely no time to react. It can get scary, but I think if I have enough practice, I can get used to it.
movdqa
Talk Tennis Guru
BTW, the fastest I've ever driven is 94 MPH. Kind of amazing that
I've only played against someone who said he used to serve at 120s (when he used to play for D-1 college). He told me that when I asked him after the friendly match, how fast he thought the serve that he served right at my body was (I had to duck
You can also stand really far back as the speed attenuates with distance.
Tennisanity
Legend
It's amazing Mac did ~110 with that racquet.
mikeler
Moderator
I've only played against someone who said he used to serve at 120s (when he used to play for D-1 college). He told me that when I asked him after the friendly match, how fast he thought the serve that he served right at my body was (I had to duck
I played a huge lefty one time that had the biggest serve I've ever seen. So I asked him how fast he had been clocked at and he said in the 130s. I stood back by the fence to return his serve. Like others have said, the flatter faster serve was not all that bad to return. When he slowed it down slightly and added some spin it was incredibly difficult to return.
tennis4me
Hall of Fame
Yes, that's what I do now. If you stand all the way back, though, it opens up the angle quite a bit. But, having a chance to return the serve at all (by standing way back) is a big plus. If the server ended up serving a perfect "T" or wide, nothing you can do anyway - even at the Pro level - that would be an ace.
Sports Illustrated ran this excerpt from the book The Sports Gene, explaining that for most fast ball sports (including baseball, tennis, and cricket), human visual/neurological/muscular reaction time is too slow to permit returns/hits based solely on reacting from when the ball is struck or released. Returners/batters are only able to do what they do by anticipating and picking up cues in the delivery, based on their thousands and thousands of hours of experience. This allows them to make predictions about the ball before it starts moving towards them, so that they can start their swings in time to meet the ball when it gets to them.
http://www.si.com/more-sports/2013/07/24/sports-gene-excerpt
http://www.si.com/more-sports/2013/07/24/sports-gene-excerpt
LoboLaw1984
Rookie
Lol, sure buddy. Returning a 130 mph serve is "not so bad."
Topspin Shot
Legend
I'm sure it wasn't so bad for Ash; he was a pretty good player.
I don't know if I've faced 130+, but I've faced 120+ and can return it as long as the server isn't painting the corners. 150+ is mind-bogglingly fast.
Devil_dog
Hall of Fame
I, too, have played a guy that can hammer his serve around 120+. It took me awhile to get accustomed to the speed but once I got my timing dialed in for his pace, I was at least able to get some of his serves back and start the point. Got aced a bunch but I expected that from that sort of velocity. Upside? Every other opponent's serve seems like a cake walk.
goran_ace
Hall of Fame
Totally agree. I've faced a lot of big servers in college and if the guy is hitting the same flat serve over and over again it doesn't take long to get a read on it. At that point he's not going to be able to just overpower you with his serve, it becomes more an issue of can he hit different spots. If he's moving it around well sometimes you just have to guess and pick a side, but if he has tendencies like always going to the outside corner on the deuce side you start to look for that one and you're going to lean that way knowing you can get a racket on it. Yeah no backswing. Guide it back using his own power against him. I'd rather face a guy who gives you flat pace all day on the serve than a guy who has a nasty kicker or lefty slice. Toughest guys to return against are the ones who have a lot of variety and can hit different spots, and especially when they can do different things off the same toss/contact point.
racket king
Banned
Even Federer couldn't return that serve. Yet, you two think it's pretty easy? Just LOL.
Ask Djokovic what it was like trying to return Kevin Anderson's serves.
You two have clearly been on the shandys with LeeD.
goran_ace
Hall of Fame
Never said it was easy. Just saying that a big serve isn't the be-all end-all of tennis. Federer handled Groth 6-4, 6-4, 6-7, 6-2. Djokovic had to go the distance against Anderson but he still got the W. There's a reason why the biggest servers on the tour aren't at the top. Dangerous guys to have in same section of the draw and are threats to upset, but I'm not looking at them to go straight through to the semi's or take it all the way.
And you quoted me out of context. I wasn't referring to the 150 mph serve. I was talking about playing against big serves in my college tennis days.
Ash_Smith is well respected around here for his knowledge of the game and as an instructor. He's not known for making incredulous statements.
Nostradamus
Bionic Poster
so
So they are saying it is eeasy ?? only 73 mph when you strike it. that is Nothing.........
So they are saying it is eeasy ?? only 73 mph when you strike it. that is Nothing.........
But the speed before that determines how fast you can react
I have no idea.
But around 130, you need to first figure out bounce height, ONE grip for either side and defending your body. Timing is tough, as most guys hitting fast serves vary the speed by at least 15 mph on their first serves.
Block it, slight underspin, aiming up the middle at first and adjust if server comes to net or punish's your return.
But around 130, you need to first figure out bounce height, ONE grip for either side and defending your body. Timing is tough, as most guys hitting fast serves vary the speed by at least 15 mph on their first serves.
Block it, slight underspin, aiming up the middle at first and adjust if server comes to net or punish's your return.
Ash_Smith
Legend
Think you've misunderstood my point a little (or perhaps I didn't explain it very well). The OP asked what it is like to return a big serve - I was trying to make the point that the pace alone is not that big a deal. The minimum physical reaction time in a human being is 0.2 of a second, at that serve pace you have about 0.4 of a second, which for people who play a lot of sports or video games (i.e. gen x) it is not too quick to react too. So once you get dialled into the pace, it isn't such a big deal.
Now, if you add in spin or a guy who is painting the lines, then you have a different story - in fact a guy who paints the lines at 110+ is going to be ridiculously difficult to return against as although we can react fast enough in the right direction, we do not necessarily have the athleticism to get there.
Ash_Smith
Legend
I'm sure it wasn't so bad for Ash; he was a pretty good player.
I don't know about that... but I did hit this backhand this morning...
wings56
Hall of Fame
This is very true. Look at the direction on Federer's serve most of the tournament. Not blowing people out of the water, but impeccably placed.
Look at what Serena did in her last few matches. Perfect placement coupled with serves 15-20 MPH faster than the other women.
wings56
Hall of Fame
And it is all relative when you're talking about being "not so bad" to return 130+ mph serves.
Obviously a 90 mph serve is going to be easier to return than 130 mph, but in the scope of returning 130 mph serves, most people that can generate that type of pace...ones that we would be on the court with... will typically not have much directional control on it... same serving patterns...etc that lead to getting a read on it and being able to return it.
Obviously a 90 mph serve is going to be easier to return than 130 mph, but in the scope of returning 130 mph serves, most people that can generate that type of pace...ones that we would be on the court with... will typically not have much directional control on it... same serving patterns...etc that lead to getting a read on it and being able to return it.
racket king
Banned
All depends on what level you're talking about. If you're talking about top pro level, then pace is a big deal and I doubt that you could consistently return any 150mph type serve meaningfully for the purposes of a match.
A top server will not be serving at the same pace right onto to your forehand every time. It's going to be to your right, to your left, into your body and so on. You'll be left to guess. Get it wrong and the ball will already be past you before you can react. Also the pace and placement isn't going to be same every time. The placement may be slightly further inside the service box on one occasion, might be deeper on another occasion, and the serve may be at a higher or lower speed from one occasion to the next. That makes it difficult to produce even a controlled blocked return, even if you can get a read on it and get racket onto the ball. Even if you could, it's likely that he'll finish the point off your return.
Also with the exception of maybe Karlovic, very few top servers have a true "completely flat" serve as very few players have the height and reach to hit completey flat down onto the ball. There's usually some sort of movement on the ball, whether its some sidespin or topspin, even if its a small amount. You only have to look at Sampras. That makes it even more difficult to consistently control a return.
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Kalin
Legend
+1
The hardest server I've watched live was Jerzy Janowicz; he was playing against Roger-Vasselin who is an excellent doubles player. JJ was consistently serving flat bombs in the 130's ( a couple touched 140) and as long they weren't in the very corners RV was returning them with ridiculous ease. The moment JJ was taking something off and hitting corners with spin is when he was making aces and service winners.
Great speed is good but good speed with excellent placement and spin is even better.
movdqa
Talk Tennis Guru
The two guys with 120+ that I've played against could only hit those down the middle. I could only return those if I were standing some distance back and could anticipate them hitting them there. One of the guys always hit a kicker-second serve to the backhand. I didn't have any problems returning that. The other guy could hit kickers, slices and flat serves (though slower) to forehand or backhand or body - he was a lot harder to return against.
Yes, some rec players can hit 120+ but there are some rec players with much slower serves that I found were harder to play against because of spin, placement, variation and not telegraphing the serve.
Yes, some rec players can hit 120+ but there are some rec players with much slower serves that I found were harder to play against because of spin, placement, variation and not telegraphing the serve.
kevsaenz
Rookie
A few years ago I tried returning some serves in the 130 to possible 140 range; it's not a lot of fun. As someone else already mentioned, you have to make an educated guess on the direction just to get a racket on it. The thing I found difficult was judging the height of the ball. Since the ball was coming so much faster than what I'm used to, it made it very difficult to judge and anticipate the height and angle of the ball once it reaches you.
donquijote
G.O.A.T.
and suresh too lol.
racket king
Banned
That's funny because against Janowicz, Roger-Vasselin has played 6 and lost 6, and during that time Janowicz has hit over 60 aces past him.... Even when he's not bombing aces, his sheer weight of serve, sets him up for the 3rd shot.
This is Janowicz hitting a 143mph serve against one of the best returners in the game. Murray doesn't even have time to swing his racket before the ball has gone past him. His subsequent serve, at 142mph, wasn't even in the corner and wasn't going away from Murray and he still managed to ace him. His third ace is in the opposite corner to the first one. Murray doesn't even have time to react.
youtu.be/4U5k8_aHzAM?t=49s
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Kalin
Legend
Well, JJ is a better player than RV; he's expected to win. And 60 aces in 6 matches is average 10 aces per match which is hardly excessive for a big server (and a big man) like Jerzy.
Yes, there is no doubt that a big serve, even if returned, causes more trouble for the receiver than a lollipop one so I don't disagree with your premise. But the fact also stands that placement and power is way, way more effective than power alone. I know very well what I saw
During the final they showed Federer's serve placement during the entire Wimbledon. Every single first serve was aimed at the corner of the boxes.
do you always have to bring facts into conversation? What makes you think it makes this forum any better??
Kalin
Legend
Do we have a graph showing the landing sports for aces on Tour? Would be interesting to see how many 'reachable' serves were aces due to speed only
corneliuscobb
Rookie
Block? Forget about blocking. If you can't hit a winner off a 150mph serve you haven't been training hard enough at the LeeD Academy of Tennis!
dgoran
Hall of Fame
Guy I played in a tourney (ex ATP career high 368 in 2008)said he regularly serves 125-130 (with the disclaimer that he said he did not need to use that against me lol) it was still impossible to return as he was painting the lines...I had one service return winner on a second point of our match (which I am proud of) and after that I did not win another point losing 6-0 6-0...
