What's Plan C?

Thanatos

Thanatos

Semi-Pro
When I play an opponent, I try to force my will onto them. I usually start off with Plan A, which is attack mode. If that doesn’t work , then I revert to Plan B. But I don't have a Plan C: What should my Plan C be? Thanks.

Plan A:
-Chip-n-charge my opponent's 1st and 2nd serve.
-Force him to earn his service games.
-All short balls will be met with an approach shot to opponent's BH side, then converge onto the net for a volley.
-Serve-n-Volley to opponent's BH side and attack the net.
-Goal #1 is to put as much pressure on the opponent as possible.
-Goal #2 90% net and 10% baseline.

Plan B:
-Serve and stay back.
-Exchange rallies at the baseline.
-Hit all groundstroke to opponent's BH side and create UFEs.
-Goal #1 is to do stroke for stroke matchup and create UFEs
-Goal #2 10% net and 90% baseline.

Plan C: ?
 
Grimjack said:
I suppose you might, at some point, want to find out if the guy has a forehand.
Click to expand...
lol :D

If somebody can beat you when you are at the net and they can beat you from the baseline, you don't have too many options. You could go into junkball mode- slice and dice with varied speeds to throw him off. Another option is just to get everything back with safe shots and make him come up with shots to beat you.
 
You can try this out for plan C:

Rub your shoes on the surface and try to make squeaky sounds when he serves.
Fart loudly and burp when he has to make crucial shots.
When the ball was nearly in, call it out.
Start questioning him often.
Delay as often as possible to break the rythm of the game.
Say something to make him self conscious like did you comb your hair today?
If you see a zit, tell him it looks really bad and he should put on some makeup.
Tell him he has a big brown patch on the back of his shorts and it doesn't look right.

If you still lose, tell him, he deserved it what else?
 
What you describe isn't really a strategy. It's just a small collection of tactics without strategic objectives to aim them at. There's much more to the game than that.

If your opponent is any match for you, just hitting everything to his backhand won't win. But it will ensure that you are hitting way too many shots down the line. And that in turn will ensure that you hit more shots into the net and out long or wide. Instead, drive the ball crosscourt with moderate topspin unless you have a REASON to do otherwise on a particular shot. That's playing the percentages.

About every third shot you will get that reason to depart from your bread-and-butter shot. It will come in the form of a short ball, an opening on one side of your opponent's court, a shot that comes looking like the kind of shot you love to roll sharply crosscourt, a shot that comes looking like the kind of shot you love to slice, an opponent caught in no man's land, and so forth.

In other words, you can't plan shots before the match. You can't even plan them two shots ahead. (Exception: If your next shot sets up the one after it, you CAN plan two shots ahead. Examples are fairly rare, but here is one every tennis player needs to know: An approach shot sets up the first volley from no man's land, which sets up the second volley from the net. So you hit the first two shots in this three-shot pattern deep down the line and the third shot crosscourt for a winner to opening you have created.)

If I wanted to achieve the net as a strategic objective against a particular opponent, I wouldn't be so easily discouraged. If I couldn't achieve success one way, I'd try another. Maybe I'd have to stop trying to follow second serves. Then if I find I'm getting too few chances to follow serve because I miss too many first serves, I will let up on it a bit, so I can serve-and-volley more.

In short, if you become a student of the game itself (not the mechanics of stroke production), you will have a game, a strategy for every match, and many appropriate tactics to pick from.
 
I would say plan C would be to vary your game so that you can avoid your opponent's strengths as much as possible. If his forehand passing shots are too good then don't go to net to his forehand side. If he is better at baseline rallies, then hit drop shots and short slices that bring him to net. Basically figure out how he is beating you and then try to stop the bleeding while still using as many of your strengths as possible. Don't give up on plan A too soon, or don't forget to go back to plan A if plan B doesn't work either and you have no plan C. Sometimes changing strategies can throw off your opponent for a couple games if it doesn't throw yourself off first.
 
What you've said really just seems like a collection of tactics, as Kathy said.

In your A game, you're always at the net and forcing service games. Volleying seems to be your strength. However, in your B game, you sacrifice this weapon almost ALTOGETHER -is that really considered effective? At no point should you give up your weapon. At groundstroke exchanges, experienced baseliners are bound to beat you, and by forcing yourself to constantly attack backhands, you're extremely predictable and forcing yourself to attempt low percentage shots.

STICK with your strengths. Although you may want to stay back, in that "B game" set up points until you can approach. Put yourself on the offensive, I can guarantee you'll lose against any players 4.5 and up with your B game. Many 4.0s as well.
 
Thanks Kathy, Kevhen, and everyone else. I appreicate the input. I'm still learning the game.

For example last night I played a USTA 4.0 match and was using Plan A. When I got to the net, my opponent was hitting good passing shots, topspin that barely got over the net forcing me to volley up for a sitter, or just plain UFE vollies on my part. He was probably winning 80% of points when I was at the net. My opponent took the first set 6-4. On the 2nd set, I guess he expected me to play the same strategy. I changed to Plan B and started long rallies with him. I would hit several shots to his BH side (since his FH was good) and eventually (with alot of patience) started forcing the errors. Of course I hit some shots to his FH. I used his BH to open up the FH side.
I ended up winning the 2nd set and the match. This Plan A and B has gotten me out of several bad matches in the past. I just wanted some advice in case Plan A and B doesn't work out. So far, I'm 4-0 in my local leagues and 3-0 in my USTA league.
 
Kana Himezaki said:
What you've said really just seems like a collection of tactics, as Kathy said.

In your A game, you're always at the net and forcing service games. Volleying seems to be your strength. However, in your B game, you sacrifice this weapon almost ALTOGETHER -is that really considered effective? At no point should you give up your weapon. At groundstroke exchanges, experienced baseliners are bound to beat you, and by forcing yourself to constantly attack backhands, you're extremely predictable and forcing yourself to attempt low percentage shots.

STICK with your strengths. Although you may want to stay back, in that "B game" set up points until you can approach. Put yourself on the offensive, I can guarantee you'll lose against any players 4.5 and up with your B game. Many 4.0s as well.
Click to expand...

Thanks Kana Himezaki..you may have a point there with always try to play into your own strength.
 
When I got to the net, my opponent was hitting good passing shots, topspin that barely got over the net forcing me to volley up for a sitter, or just plain UFE vollies on my part. He was probably winning 80% of points when I was at the net.
Click to expand...

I'd be willing to bet that the problem was your approach shot. It should drive your opponent deep, give him no passing angle, and draw a floater (by making him hit off the back foot). One more thing: though you never hit approach shots softly, don't wham them either, because you want them to eat some time. That's time you use to get closer to the net for your first volley.

To minimize the Angle of Return, hit the approach shot down the line. To drive him deep, hit the approach deep and, usually, with topspin. The long topspinning bound drives him deeper and makes up for it if your approach shot isn't as deep as you'd like. (A short underspin approach shot is fatal.) Also, many players like to play topspin on the decent of its bounce. So topspin approach shots are particularly useful against them, because they willingly retreat very deep to return topspin. The deeper they are, the less of a passing angle they've got.

This doesn't mean that underspin approach shots are never a good choice. In special cases they are. If you must approach crosscourt, minimize the angle to minimize the Angle of Return. That's how you keep from getting passed.

Don't try to put away your first volley from no man's land. The percentages on that are terrible. Instead, hit the ball back deep to the same, down-the-line corner. When it ball returns (as another floater), you'll be all the way to net, and the other side of his court will be wide open for your putaway volley crosscourt. It's a shot pretty hard to blow.
 
Plan C: Unload.. become the gonzo of your club.. lock and load, swing away, grip it - rip it

Plan D: Become the wall.. hit everything back medium pace, make no mistakes.. get ready to run anything down.. footspeed is your ally. your goal is to touch the ball with your racquet at all costs

Plan E: Pull all the old tricks in the book.. underhand serve, moon balls, dropshots and dinks, behind the leg, summersaut splits, yell, yaun, fistpump, and when worst comes to worst, start blasting the ball off out of the park/club until there are no more balls to play
 
The first 2 plans are proactive, so I would get reactive and:
Plan C would be my move to try to quit imposing my "strengths" in a losing contest. I would adapt my game to pick on any of my opponent's weaknesses or hit shots he does not seem to like to hit against.
 
montx said:
You can try this out for plan C:

Rub your shoes on the surface and try to make squeaky sounds when he serves.
Fart loudly and burp when he has to make crucial shots.
When the ball was nearly in, call it out.
Start questioning him often.
Delay as often as possible to break the rythm of the game.
Say something to make him self conscious like did you comb your hair today?
If you see a zit, tell him it looks really bad and he should put on some makeup.
Tell him he has a big brown patch on the back of his shorts and it doesn't look right.

If you still lose, tell him, he deserved it what else?
Click to expand...

You gave me a good laugh - wife even wanted to know what was so funny.
 
Kathy, good post but I was somewhat surprised that you advised going "down the line" to avoid the angles on returns as compared to going down the middle. Maybe I misunderstood you on that part.
 
Kathy - As for your note on approach shots, I can personally verify that deep, down the line topspin approach shots work because they carry people off the court.

But...slicing only in certain situations? It's my primary approach. Especially when they're on the run, the player is forced to get down UNDER the ball if your shot is any success. Which means that instead of hitting it low, or even having the time to hit an effective passing shot anyway, on good approach shots they are forced to hit UP a little. Meaning...a nice, easier volley for the putaway.

The same concept is why backspin volleys are considered standard. It allows for depth and drive, and on any subsequent points the opponent must try to get under the ball.

Also, against righties, or the majority of players, your down the line slice is running to their forehand. Most players in this day and age use semiwestern or Western grips, especially juniors. The low slice doesn't help their situation, and they're forced to make even more adjustments to get the ball back into play.

Not to mention topspin, their usual priority in succeeding at both attacking and keeping the ball in, is much, much, much harder because they can't get adequately under the ball with a low to high motion.

Thanks, I'm just curious as to why topspin approach shots are considered more effective than slices. Even on effective slices, the backspin is providing the time you need to get to net, another effective feature.



papa - When moving to the net, going down the line is actually most effective when cutting off angles. When aiming down the line, the opponent can aim for both sides. Also, from wherever they previously were, it's a large, large percentage they can get to this new ball down the middle. Meaning that they'll also have more time to set up their passing shot. An approach shot is built to force an ineffective return to be put away or angled easily.

When aiming down the line, you cover more angles. When aiming for the sides, they can only aim for one, and crosscourt shots are forced to pass over the middle area - a spot you can more easily cover. When the ball passes over the net, or right before contact usually -you're only giving it two options instead of three possibilities to cover.
 
Sometimes after trying my A,B,C, and D plan and I still can't find my rythm I have tried a couple of things with good and bad outcome.

plan E: as Twistserve said, I start blasting winners Gonzo style as I have nothing to lose and sometimes it's gotten me back into matches. but the down side is that many times it's made me look like a match tanker.

plan F: totally out of desperation my last try is right out of GB's book. ask for a bathroom break, change socks, do something to get a few minutes to analyze things and get yourself together. in the mean time the man at the other side of the net might lose some mommentum.... or so you hope, he can actually get that much better and come back fresh and close it quicker than you expect. but it's worth giving it a go I think.
 
Those points are well taken. As for putting the approach shot in the corner...

The advantage is that it opens up the other side of his court. It probabaly also runs him a little farther. But it also gives him a better Angle of Return than a centered approach shot. So, unless you're getting close enough to go for the putaway on your first volley (which should be rare), you can certainly center the approach shot and then put the first volley in the corner to open the other side of the court for the putaway volley.

I usually don't go to either extreme. I put it on the down-the-line side, concerned more for depth than corner placement. If your opponent is one of those players who doesn't return well when stretched out, aim more for the corner. But an approach shot shouldn't be risky, so it doesn't pay to flirt with the lines. If you are getting passed, center the approach more. The main thing is not to hit it crosscourt. That's the dangerous angle.

Conventional wisdom has long advocated sliced approach shots, but conventional wisdom is wrong often enough that I don't buy it unless I can see how it's true. Long experience has shown me that topspin approach shots are very reliable and almost always get you to the net in good shape. I'm in the minority in my opinion, but people like Andre Agassi agree.

If your opponent is on or behind the baseline, you don't need to make him hit up. Only if he plays inside the baseline and takes balls on the rise or at the top of the bounce. Then the low underspin approach shot is often a better idea. But it's a riskier shot. If underspin lands one inch short on you, you're dead. And underspin won't get him hitting off the back foot (a floater) unless it's perilously close to the baseline.

What you say about western-grip players is also true. But, many of them play deep and like to take the ball at the top of the bounce or on the descent. So, in that case, I guess it depends on which type of approach works better on that particular opponent.
 
If you are a 4.0, in good shape and have a strong desire to win(which seems apparent from you strategizing) that plan B would be more effective against a player who is not clearly better than you.

just something to think about, do you have any comments on this from your experiences using both. has one been more effective than the other.

I think plan C(not a completely different plan, but perhaps ulimately a better one) could be learning when to play like Plan A, but primarily sticking to the plan B tactics.
 
Thanks for the response, I'll test out the topspin approach.

What I don't like about it is the pace. If you send a good, down the line topspin drive at 90% to full pace, you're likely to get a weak return if properly set up. However, this doesn't provide you ample time to get to the net. You suggested lowering the pace slightly to give you time, but that simply provides them the time and ability to get to and set up for their passing shot.

Another problem when advocating this to many players is that many, when trying to slow the pace down a bit, over do it and become cautious when working towards slowing it down. The result is not much depth, the lack of pace they wanted, and a pass right away.

Until slightly higher levels of play, when the player can and has developed the depth and topspin in his stroke, the topspin approach is not ideal for the general masses. They will tend to lean towards extremes.

The slice approach comes more naturally and provides both the time and depth. I am certainly not saying that the topspin approach is bad, not at all. But in order to achieve the floater you want (which your approach certainly creates more of) you generally have to put more pace on it. The resulting stroke seems more likely to take place in a baseline rally.

The shot is calling for a stroke many players don't have. It's more suited for an aggressive baseliner that wants to put away a point than someone who wants to get to the net and stay there.

On another note, if the player has developed the approach to add both depth and topspin to the shot, many times, his precision/skill at these groundstrokes outshines his skill at the net. Meaning that at times they will dump these seemingly easy volleys, over do it, chop under the ball, and lose confidence in these volleys.

Until higher levels of play, it's a tradeoff.

Please correct me on anything, I don't have any experience teaching or working with people. I'm just trying to learn.


quick edit:: Every once in a while, I find it effective to add sidespin to slice approach shots. It throws off timing considerably, and I find the floater I've been waiting for. It's more of just a fun specialty than something everyone can use, but I can easily disguise it and mix it in with my normal approaches to keep them effective.
 
Well, you know good topspin makes up for lack of pace. Really. It has forward momentum that drives the opponent deeper. True, you could slow your approach down too much, and that would ruin it. But I have never had to worry about that and neither has anybody I coached. To the contrary, I found it surprising how slow a topspin approach can be and still be a forcing shot that drives the opponent back and draws a floater off his back foot right to you. It's a subtly forcing shot. In fact, I've found that some of these players retreat farther than they need to and hit such a soft, high floater back that you get past no man's land by the time the ball back. Whack! No need to make the first volley a setup then.

The player who will step into a shot he has had to retreat for is rare (except on the two-handed side of good two-handers). So, I bet you'd be surprised how many players give you a floater if you just get them moving backwards with your approach shot. You'll even see this happen among the pros. I don't know for sure what it is -- maybe just some laziness in one-handed shots -- but make them take one step back and they will hit off the back foot. They just don't take the extra step needed to step into the shot.

That's why I use a topsin approach unless I have a specific reason to use underspin in any given match. When I can use topspin approaches, I approach on "short" shots most people wouldn't regard as short. I have that much confidence in it. But when I must use underspin approach shots, I wait for the right kind of short feeder because I don't want to make an error myself or set up my opponent with a short shot to sink his teeth into while I'm on my way to net.

In any case, my main point is to look at the topspin approach. You too may find it useful. It minimizes the big risk in rushing the net -- getting passed or having an error forced from you on your first volley in no man's land.

After that, you either can volley well, or you can't.
 
Ah, I'll definitely try it tomorrow.

I'm also thinking of testing approaching on a heavy moonball to an opponent's backhand side every now and then from the baseline. From the information you provided, I'm certain the topspin would push people off the court and the moonball (added height) provide the depth needed.

This is aiming towards most people with one handed backhands. When watching other people hit, I've noticed (especially on high balls) people tend to simply focus on the height of the ball jumping at them. For inexperienced players, the topspin would make the already difficult high backhands a problem. The experienced players, or SOME of the ones I've seen at least, would often be busy focusing too much on the ball than at the person moving to net.

Also, provided you're a righty against a righty (the usual situation for me), hitting a moonball to an opponent's backhand is a down the line shot. Meaning limiting angles still comes into play.

The height and difficulty involved in controlling and successfully hitting the ball also means you're not likely to get a low, difficult return. High balls almost always mean a generally high ball back. If they lob you, you've generally put them on the defensive, and can usually smash back the ineffective backhand lobs at lower levels.

It doesn't help for them that I'm a 6' girl with a lot of reach. :P

So...in your line of topspin approaches, would you consider a moonball a viable option?
 
Yes, moonballs can made good approach shots. Against many players they draw that shoulder high volley right up the center that you want on your way to the net.

Lobs can make good approach shots too. For the same reason.

As a matter of fact, virtually any shot can be adapted to make an approach shot. The crucial thing is to make your approach designed to draw an easy-to-volley return in the center.

I think many people have the idea that an approach shot has to make the opponent feel attacked. But really all it has to do is get him moving backward and hitting off the back foot to give you a first volley in no man's land that is a high percentage shot. That's why I say an approach shot is SUBTLY aggressive. If your opponent doesn't feel very threatened by it, he's unlikely to consider the situation an emergency and step up, hit the ball on the rise, and try to nail you with his return. That's good, because you don't want a hot shot from him while passing through no man's land. That's because the first volley is the tough one, the one you have only a 50-50 chance of success with.
 
Kathy said:
Long experience has shown me that topspin approach shots are very reliable and almost always get you to the net in good shape. I'm in the minority in my opinion...
Click to expand...
Yes. You are in the minority. But if it works for you, great!

... but people like Andre Agassi agree.
Click to expand...
This cracked me up! You can count Agassi's approach shots -- for an entire match -- on one hand.

IMO, one of Roddick's biggest flaws (in the attacking game he has been experimenting with lately) is he hasn't learned the value of the Slice approach shot.

Look at Federer's, JHH's and Luby's approaches. They mix top, slice, side ... and, in Roger's case ... stuff they don't have names for yet(!). But they know how to employ the driven Slice approach very well.

If underspin lands one inch short on you, you're dead. And underspin won't get him hitting off the back foot (a floater) unless it's perilously close to the baseline.
Click to expand...
Tilt!!! The Slice or Side Spin approach shot will not float if properly driven.

I guess it depends on which type of approach works better on that particular opponent.
Click to expand...
This is absolutely correct. Formula Strategies will get you in trouble. IOW, you cannot play every opponent with the same strategy.

+ + + + + + +

One of my practice partners hits *amazing* passing shots when on the run. For him, I hit my approaches right at him, deep, with Slice or Side Spin. For some reason, when he is "set" he cannot counter the approach as well.
____________

Another of my practice partners strikes any low BHs beautifully. For him I Slice approaches to his FH ... and topspin them to his BH. (He cannot handle high BHs well.)

You must tailor your game plan to the competition.

BTW, do you "game plan" your opponents? I keep a notebook of my game plans for everyone I play. (I'm old and forgetful. It helps to review the game plan ... for guys I'll play again ... and for guys I have yet to play.)

- KK
 
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