Snipergene
Rookie
Until mid last year (2009), I've been away from the game for 20+ years. What's so special about the St. Vincent Pro Staff? Just curious, thanks.
What's so special about the St. Vincent Pro Staff?
- Thread starter Snipergene
- Start date
supineAnimation
Hall of Fame
Sampras used only St. Vincent PS 85s during his career. Or, possibly, at least once he earned enough clout to be able to be that discerning. I'm sure somebody on this forum can tell you the exact differences in their particular manufacturing process, but I doubt it would make all that much difference to the sub-pro player. I certainly wouldn't go crazy trying to find one if that's what you're considering. It's tough enough to find any PS 85 these days.
goran_ace
Hall of Fame
Basically the Sampras mystique, the story behind it, and the rarity is what makes them special.
Here's the St. Vincent story
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Reviews/60/StVincent.html
Here's the St. Vincent story
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Reviews/60/StVincent.html
VGP
Legend
If I had to boil it down to one word, it's feel.
Wilson Pro Staff Midsize rackets made in St. Vincent have a distinctive feel - as pointed out in the now classic TW link. Whether or not you enjoy how the frame feels and plays, well, that's up to you.
If you dig around here, there are numerous threads about SV PS85s and how much people like them......but the discussion is dying down as the years pass.
Many people that used to play PS85s have moved on. The frames are "collector's" pieces now and people aren't willing to spend $250+ for one in decent shape to use as a player frame.
Just like with any frame, you have to try them out to see if you like them. As for being able to feel the difference between the different models of PS85s? You don't have to a be a pro to tell the difference. I am FAR from a "pro" but I know what it feels like to use a SV, Taiwanese, or Chinese PS85 (haven't used a Chicago). Each has ther distinct feel and response.
Snipergene, if you've been away from the game for 20+ years, are you one that used Wilson PS85s, Dunlop 200gs, Head PC600s, Pro Kennex Silver Aces, POG Mids......or you one born of the hollow widebody, high modulus graphite generation?
If you enjoy using - relatively and historically speaking - small-headed, hefty, thin beamed, solid frames, where the graphite had that "rough" quality then I definitely recommend giving the Wilson SV PS85 a spin. If not, then you may be "disappointed" and wonder what the big fuss is all about. That's ok too.
But......I am well aware that the frame is a dinosaur. Extinct and never to return. Although, if someone could truly clone and resurrect a dinosaur, I'd think that would be super cool!
Wilson Pro Staff Midsize rackets made in St. Vincent have a distinctive feel - as pointed out in the now classic TW link. Whether or not you enjoy how the frame feels and plays, well, that's up to you.
If you dig around here, there are numerous threads about SV PS85s and how much people like them......but the discussion is dying down as the years pass.
Many people that used to play PS85s have moved on. The frames are "collector's" pieces now and people aren't willing to spend $250+ for one in decent shape to use as a player frame.
Just like with any frame, you have to try them out to see if you like them. As for being able to feel the difference between the different models of PS85s? You don't have to a be a pro to tell the difference. I am FAR from a "pro" but I know what it feels like to use a SV, Taiwanese, or Chinese PS85 (haven't used a Chicago). Each has ther distinct feel and response.
Snipergene, if you've been away from the game for 20+ years, are you one that used Wilson PS85s, Dunlop 200gs, Head PC600s, Pro Kennex Silver Aces, POG Mids......or you one born of the hollow widebody, high modulus graphite generation?
If you enjoy using - relatively and historically speaking - small-headed, hefty, thin beamed, solid frames, where the graphite had that "rough" quality then I definitely recommend giving the Wilson SV PS85 a spin. If not, then you may be "disappointed" and wonder what the big fuss is all about. That's ok too.
But......I am well aware that the frame is a dinosaur. Extinct and never to return. Although, if someone could truly clone and resurrect a dinosaur, I'd think that would be super cool!
VGP
Legend
I'll also shoot out a plug for the Wilson Pro Staff Midsize by directing you to the wiki page. Not just info on SVs, but all the models in general.
People mention Sampras, but the PS85 encompasses several elements that make it "special."
- it has become a defining frame of the early non-wood era, a characteristic model
- the frame was well used at the recreational and professional level
- there is a definite connection to several accomplished professional players (not just Sampras)
I think the irony is that despite the claims of 'rarity' and the current inflated prices, millions were made and are still available even though it's been discontinued for thirty years (SVs). Several are always available for sale on e-bay any given day - another indicator of its popularity.
If it weren't for the mix of old-school nostalgia from players that demand the feel of the racket and the connection to great players of the past, the PS85 would just be considered old junk and frames could be had for less than $30.
People mention Sampras, but the PS85 encompasses several elements that make it "special."
- it has become a defining frame of the early non-wood era, a characteristic model
- the frame was well used at the recreational and professional level
- there is a definite connection to several accomplished professional players (not just Sampras)
I think the irony is that despite the claims of 'rarity' and the current inflated prices, millions were made and are still available even though it's been discontinued for thirty years (SVs). Several are always available for sale on e-bay any given day - another indicator of its popularity.
If it weren't for the mix of old-school nostalgia from players that demand the feel of the racket and the connection to great players of the past, the PS85 would just be considered old junk and frames could be had for less than $30.
Snipergene
Rookie
My rackets before last year's return were the Prince OG (110) and the Yonex R-7. Still have them and will restring them some day for fun. I remember the Wilson Profiles just coming out when I stopped playing. Maybe it's been closer to a 25 year absence? I started playing when I was a kid in the mid 70's. Wilson Pro Staff Wood, Head Aluminum (blue) and Head Arthur Ashe were rackets I used to use until the graphite rackets came out.
I'm not looking to buy a St. Vincent. Just saw some discussions here and saw a few on e B a y asking some pretty high prices and got curious.
That's to all for educating me!
athiker
Hall of Fame
Interesting thread...I had wondered about this frame too after reading so many references to it on the board...also the infamous 10 at a garage sale bogus thread.
:roll:Thanks for the article link...also found it interesting all the talk in the article about quality control only to be followed by the supposed story that the molds loosened up and didn't close well making the frames from St. Vincent a bit thicker!? Didn't seem to jive...that part sounds more like myth but idk.
Too bad they had to close the plant as it sounds like they had a good labor crew working there.
pshulam
Hall of Fame
Yes, it's too bad. Whoever can produce it at the lowest cost will be the OEM manufacturer.
cork_screw
Hall of Fame
I think some guy named sampras played with it or something. But let's focus on the bigger picture, what is donald young up to? Let's hope this year he cracks the top 1200. I figure by the year 2016 he'll be top 500 material. Crossing my fingers...
D
decades
Guest
it doesn't say "made in china" on it. Roger doesn't seem to mind...
volleymaster2
New User
The St Vincent model is very different to all the others. I own all except Chicago version and Belgium version. I also have the rf85.
The St Vincent just feels more solid and buttery with every hit. It's neither too stiff nor too flexible. The materials used from the area just make it unique. All top ten pros tried the Taiwanese models for a short period, none of them got on with them, they all wanted the St Vincent models. The only racquet that comes close to the same feel is the Pro Staff K88, even though it's made in China. That racquet was made for Sampras, so Wilson had to make it almost identical playability with a slightly larger head. In my opinion, they succeeded.
Butt cap codes, along with red primer under the paint job, are the only way to tell where the racquet was manufactured. Anything with a Q in it is pre-Taiwan from St Vincent. Even they have their own batch chronology, from H*Q to B*Q, the latter being the ones Sampras used due to them being more available as it was the last batch.
The St Vincent just feels more solid and buttery with every hit. It's neither too stiff nor too flexible. The materials used from the area just make it unique. All top ten pros tried the Taiwanese models for a short period, none of them got on with them, they all wanted the St Vincent models. The only racquet that comes close to the same feel is the Pro Staff K88, even though it's made in China. That racquet was made for Sampras, so Wilson had to make it almost identical playability with a slightly larger head. In my opinion, they succeeded.
Butt cap codes, along with red primer under the paint job, are the only way to tell where the racquet was manufactured. Anything with a Q in it is pre-Taiwan from St Vincent. Even they have their own batch chronology, from H*Q to B*Q, the latter being the ones Sampras used due to them being more available as it was the last batch.
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Grieeegoorr
Semi-Pro
Good chance. No registered trademark symbol, often the bottom part of the Q is not there, I read on here somewhere that O wasn't used in the codes so if it looked like an O it was most probably really a Q. Butt caps can be swapped out though so the real test is going to be the red primer. Have a good look over the racquet for any scratches, scrapes of dings that go through the top layer of paint to the undercoat.
volleymaster2
New User
The butt code suggests it is, but I would need some pictures of the whole frame, the tension range, along with any chips/marks/dents you have around the frame. If you are able to post those, then one could be more certain.0 new items by Benjamin Rio
photos.app.goo.gl
Do you think that's a St Vincent please?
markwillplay
Hall of Fame
I never got the hype. I played with. Max 200g for years in the 80s. The Wilson seemed stiff and sweet spot tiny. There was no comparison between the two for me. And I tried to play with it numerous times. I thought the 200g was superior in every way.
volleymaster2
New User
Completely different racquet. Pro staff has a stiffness of mid 60's. Max 200G was below 50.
200g was too flexy for me, more of an old wood feel. Great for hitting flat shots, but so much more power with the pro staff.
markwillplay
Hall of Fame
Yea I think the thing I loved about that frame was that the sweet spot was the whole damn face. That stick is still easy to play with. Flexible on grounders but solid as a rock when blocking pace. I played with it first and could not get on with the Wilson. Graph got plenty of power from it.
