What's the Correct Call?

[tennismonkey]

Help me out TW peeps.

i'm returning a serve in doubles. i'm on the deuce side and i rope a return down the alley. as the ball lands the net guy calls OUT while at the same time his partner, the server, calls IN and he makes the hand signal as well. we are playing on har-tru so the net guy runs over to where he thinks the ball landed and points to an out mark.

so what's the correct call?

1 -- the ball is out because there is a mark visible.
2 -- the point goes to monkey because they are in disagreement with conflicting calls.
3 -- i should not be playing on har-tru because it's goofy.

 

[spot]

You go off of the ball mark.

 

[Taxvictim]

From the Code:

14. Partners’ disagreement on calls. If doubles partners disagree about whether their opponents’ ball was out, they shall call it good. It is more important to give your opponents the benefit of the doubt than to avoid pos-sibly hurting your partner’s feelings by not overruling. The tactful way to achieve the desired result is to tell your partner quietly of the mistake and then let your partner concede the point. If a call is changed from out to good, the point is replayed only if the out ball was put back in play.

But wait, if it's on clay, you can check the mark:

22. Calling balls on clay courts. If any part of the ball mark touches the line on a clay court, the ball shall be called good. If you can see only part of the mark on the court, this means that the missing part is on the line or tape. A player should take a careful second look at any point-ending placement that is close to a line on a clay court. Occasionally a ball will strike the tape, jump, and then leave a full mark behind the line. The player should listen for the sound of the ball striking the tape and look for a clean spot on the tape near the mark. If these conditions exist, the player should give the point to the opponent.

So I agree with spot. If both opponents agree it's the right ball mark, then the ball was out. Play on.

 

[tennismonkey]

thanks! they wound up giving me the point. scored a free point but will have to remember that next time on har-tru.

 

[Cindysphinx]

On several occasions, I have hit a shot to the baseline that the baseline player calls out but her partner at net calls in. The net player then says, "Oh, she had the better look at it, so I'm going with her call."

I attribute this to the rule change that disagreement between partners is loss of point.

That, and the fact that some of my opponents have sportsmanship issues.

 

[samarai]

I think the net player has a better angle on that call.

 

[kylebarendrick]

Cindy, disagreement between players was always a loss of point. The rule change was about changing your call.

 

[NTRPolice]

There is no such thing as "a better angle for a call". If one person calls it good, its good regardless of where that person was.

I dont know why people dont learn to keep their mouth shut if they dont know about a particular line call. If I didnt see it, I just dont say anything and let my partner call it. If my partner doesnt say anything within a second or two, I call it good.

Both players do not need to "agree" nor do both players have to actually make a call. The only thing that cannot happen are two players disagreeing over a call.

Rules of doubles line calling:

1) If you didnt see it, let your partner call it. If you dont know what you saw... dont say anything.
2) If your partner cant call it, or asks you what you saw, call it good immediately and dont "discuss" the call.
3) If you see it good, call it good. If your partner calls it out and you saw it good, overrule them.
4) If you feel like you have to ask your opponents what they saw you should just give them the point and not even ask.

 

[Baxter]

There is no such thing as "a better angle for a call". If one person calls it good, its good regardless of where that person was.

I dont know why people dont learn to keep their mouth shut if they dont know about a particular line call. If I didnt see it, I just dont say anything and let my partner call it. If my partner doesnt say anything within a second or two, I call it good.

Both players do not need to "agree" nor do both players have to actually make a call. The only thing that cannot happen are two players disagreeing over a call.

Rules of doubles line calling:

1) If you didnt see it, let your partner call it. If you dont know what you saw... dont say anything.
2) If your partner cant call it, or asks you what you saw, call it good immediately and dont "discuss" the call.
3) If you see it good, call it good. If your partner calls it out and you saw it good, overrule them.
4) If you feel like you have to ask your opponents what they saw you should just give them the point and not even ask.

I couldn't have put it better myself. This should be posted at every changeover bench.

 

[Cindysphinx]

Cindy, disagreement between players was always a loss of point. The rule change was about changing your call.

The problem is that certain folks seem to be unwilling to acknowledge their disagreement.

 

[Taxvictim]

4) If you feel like you have to ask your opponents what they saw you should just give them the point and not even ask.

Good post, but this is the only one I disagree with. If you're at the net and duck as the opponent slams one really close to you, you might not have any idea if the ball was long. In those cases, I have immediately asked the other player "was it in?" Sometimes they admit it was long.

 

[NTRPolice]

Good post, but this is the only one I disagree with. If you're at the net and duck as the opponent slams one really close to you, you might not have any idea if the ball was long. In those cases, I have immediately asked the other player "was it in?" Sometimes they admit it was long.

You should really turn around and keep an eye on the lines even when you're "protecting" yourself, lol. It's almost like a "skill" or a "discipline".

But, if your opponent is willing to be honest in this case, then you're probably playing against a decent person. I've had a person tell me "Sorry, I cant help you." when I asked their opinion. The guy hit an overhead right between my legs while I was at the baseline. I jumped, spread, and tried to watch the ball but I blinked. I swear the ball was like 1.5 to 2 ft. long, but I wasnt sure...

I asked him what the thought and he said he couldnt help me, but his partner confirmed it was out. His partner, btw, was a guy who called my serve "wide" because he didnt take into account that the spin was pulling the ball back in play. The serve he called wide was probably 2 inches on the inside if the line, lol, so I guess he gave us this call because of his obviously bad call earlier which is partner ("I cant help you" guy) did not reverse.

 

[downs_chris]

what were you doing on the duece side?

 

[tennis tom]

...I swear the ball was like 1.5 to 2 ft. long, but I wasnt sure...

If you're sure enough to "swear" it was out then call it out. You're opponents can't see your baseline better then you. I don't question opponent's baseline calls unless I can clearly SEE it out from my side--then I know they are cheating. If they call every single ball near the baseline out during a match I can figure they are cheating because I know I don't hit every single ball near the baseline out--but I won't call them on it unless I can see it with my own eyes. That's when my benefit of the doubt to them on line calls starts getting a bit less generous.

I play rec with a lot of old farts and they question every ball near the line like your're ****ing them. They're the same ones who call the score for their opponent's--just four old farts trying to one up each other for decades since the last millenium.

I've witnessed from the side lines, players who call every ball on the line by their opponent's out. Unless your a bonafide judge like Bud Chandler, you're better off not interfering from the peanut gallery--according to the code. But when you play them, you know what **** they are pulling and adjust your sight accordingly.

 

[NTRPolice]

If you're sure enough to "swear" it was out then call it out. You're opponents can't see your baseline better then you.

That's not always true.

If your opponent is a 6'3 dude at net hitting an overhead he might be able to see your line better than you, especially if he hits a 100 mph overhead between your legs and you're busy jumping out the the way.

That's kinda like what happened to me haha.

I'm gonna have to say I was using about 10% of my maximum effort to make the like call and about 40% trying to protect my "vitals" and the last 50% on dodging.

10% of my efforts being used to make a line call about an overhead rocketed into my crotch area while im at the baseline was more than enough for me to doubt what I saw!