What has happened in the last 4 years to Nadal on grass where he is getting hammered by guys out of the top 100 and joker is so consistent? Is it just movement? Is joker that much better of a mover? Is it jokers ability to hit more winners? I mean Nole wasnt crushing winners over this tourney. You would think if joker was that much better of a mover than Nadal that it would transfer to the french as well but he cant get through rafa there. I just find in interesting how they are so close on clay but Noles game on grass is light years ahead of Nadal now.
Whats the difference between Nadal and djokovic on grass?
- Thread starter insideguy
- Start date
Rafa is done on grass. I realized this reality after Darcis defeat last year. He cant move and his reactions on grass is like an old player.I am not sure how much his heart is into Wimbledon as well anymore.Djoko is much more in his prime years than Rafa in general not just on grass.
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MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Well for one thing Nadal wins the FO every year and actually tries to play differently on grass. Novak, as great as he is, plays exactly like he does on Margaret Court, because his game is pretty much suited for anything. Nadal's grass game depended on movement that he simply no longer has.
dirtballer
Professional
Rafa's forehand isn't really suited for the skidding bounce on grass and his footing isn't as sure on the grass.
Eh. He seems to come across guys alot at wimbledon now a days who smoke him. I could be wrong but I have never heard of anyone who has played so well on grass( 5 finals) and now is getting pounded by nobodies before he is out of his prime. It would be the equivalent of Nole getting beat by wildcards or kids with great potential in the early rounds of the french. No player in history has gone from what Nadal has done on grass to basically getting crushed by qualifiers in such a short period of time. It is truly one of the most amazing things in tennis.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Because Djokovic[and Federer and Murray also] are much better than Nadal at handling servebots/ballbashers on grass these days.
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Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Fixed it for you.
torpantennis
Legend
Nadal avoids bending his knees, and that means trouble on grass.
D
Deleted member 3771
Guest
the difference is the knees
I hope you realize that Nadal is also a "ballbasher". A player who plays a large percentage of his shots from behind the baseline is by definition a "ballbasher".
Down_the_line
G.O.A.T.
Djokovic can handle the pace on grass. Moreover, he has the ability to carry over HIS game on to the grass. Nadal could do that in his absolute peak but seemingly not anymore.
Nadal at his peak was a better grass court player than Djokovic though. Djokovic, like I said, just seems to be able to play his game on grass.
Nadal at his peak was a better grass court player than Djokovic though. Djokovic, like I said, just seems to be able to play his game on grass.
Down_the_line
G.O.A.T.
This argument doesn't do it for me because Djokovic routinely goes far at the French Open as well. Ditto for Federer up until the last couple years.
Nadal enjoyed an absolute peak period for 5 years when he was able to force his way through the draw and get to 5 finals and win two of those. Before that and since then he hasn't been able to maintain that level on grass.
The_Mental_Giant
Hall of Fame
Rafa has played 5 finals and defeated prime federer. Nole has played only 3 and defeated 32 years old 11 months declined federer.
CrazyTennisFan
Rookie
The left knee
The weird thing is he went from an absolute peak to a below average grass player overnight. I mean think about it. In the last three years who has nadal beat who is any good on grass?
But overall Nole has been much more consistent. Nadal went from great on the surface to a guy who can hardly beat anyone in the top 50.
The Green Mile
Bionic Poster
WhiskeyEE
G.O.A.T.
10char
You could make the exact same thread titled "What's the difference between Nadal and Djokovic on indoor HC?"
I actually think Nadal is better on indoor hard now than grass by miles. Not that Rafa is a world beater on indoor hard. I mean he made the finals in london, and the semis in Paris.
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The Green Mile
Bionic Poster
Mmm. I still cannot fathom how Nadal come back from two sets down against an amazing indoor hardcourt player like Ljubicic, in the final of Madrid 2005. :shock:
Down_the_line
G.O.A.T.
Nadal on grass from 2012-present: 5-5
Wins over: Lukas Lacko, Thomaz Bellucci, Martin Klizan, Lukas Rosol and Mikhail Kukushkin.
Losses to: Philipp Kohlschreiber, Lukas Rosol, Steve Darcis, Dustin Brown and Nick Kyrgios.
Reminds me of Sampras at the French Open during his career, although Nadal was obviously better during his peak on grass than Sampras was on clay, but you get the idea. Nadal gave grass all he had and was actually very successful for a time. He should be commended for what he was able to accomplish. Outside that, he's ultimately not a good grass-court player.
Murrayfan31
Hall of Fame
Djokovic hits and is naturally better at returning serve closer to the baseline. Nadal has to make adjustments to his game on grass.
Adjustments that he was able to make before but apparently cant make them now. Like I said its probably the biggest collapse on a surface in the history of tennis. 5 finals then losing to guys who play on the challenger circuit. It would be one thing if he was 35. But he started losing to these guys when he was 25.
Yea I can see a small similarity to Sampras on clay. But really Pete never was never close to reaching the level Rafa did on grass. He had a couple decent runs but wasnt a clay courter. Rafa made five wimby finals and I think a couple other grass finals and but now its like he could lose to literally ANYONE. And that isnt even being hyperbolic.
DRII
G.O.A.T.
again, Nadal has great lapses in health, unlike Federer and Nole who have been very fortunate with their lack of injuries; even though Federer himself has a a early rd loss at Wimby.
and Nadal was not smoked by N.K. or loser rosol, they were relatively tight to extremely tight matches...
Dude are you saying Nadal has been hurt the last three grass court seasons? Come on. Fed and Joker and fill in the blank top 5 guys were not losing to nobodies when they were 26,27, and 28 on grass.
WhiskeyEE
G.O.A.T.
You're right, but the bounce indoors is also higher than grass these days.
That is true. But Nadal was able to do it for a 5 year period. Before that he was not good. And after that he was not good. I just looked at Agassis record on grass as he won one but never another. His results although never great on grass were more consistent. 2 quarters, 3 semis, 2 finals and two trips to the round of 16 spaced out over 13 years. So Nadal "was" a better player on grass than Andre but has basically fallen apart on the surface. Andre was sort of a hardcourt specialist I would say and never did very well at wimby. So thats interesting.
He was a baseliner and the grass played much faster. No other baseliner (until Hewitt) was able to win Wimbledon for the next 10 years after Agassi did it in 1992.
When Nadal became competitive the grass itself (the soil) had been slowed down and baseline tennis had become the norm. He was able to win it during his absolute peak, 2008-2010 due to being by far the best athlete physically.
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DRII
G.O.A.T.
he was injured and/or ailing in his loss to loser rosol and last year.
this year he was ok...
DRII
G.O.A.T.
yea, and your boy Federer has only won Wimbledon since it was firmed up post 2001!
understand that...
DRII
G.O.A.T.
you're completely wrong!
the O2 arena has hardly any bounce, yet is quite slow.
no comparison to grass at all.
objectivity
Banned
its the backhand down the line. nadal doesn't have (or refuses to use) a backhand down the line. that more than any other factor is the biggest difference. djokovic uses it way more liberally and has a better one, and with that, he can do quick 1-2 punch strikes on grass much more efficiently.
nadal doesn't have this aspect in his game. as a result, he has to grind more.
nadal doesn't have this aspect in his game. as a result, he has to grind more.
Hmm interesting. Did he have this backhand down the line in the past on grass? I never thought about that.
FormerNadalFan
Rookie
Not sure, I've never seen them play after smoking grass. Oh wait....
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