J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
When the forward swing is initiated in an ATP forehand?
J
J
the brain....
Outside hip?
With respect to the hips, I think it is hard to separate left/right hip movement because they are largely in synch. But if I had to pick the one that moves first I feel, with the inside part of the body being fully loaded, it is the inside hip that drives and pushes the outer hip when the coiled energy is released. Also, very tough not to include leg involvement since none of these movements are isolated.
The reason why I said "outside hip" is because the player loads the outside gluteal muscles, with the unit turn and knee bend, and then explodes off that pre-rotated/loaded outside gluteal muscle, which is stretched for maximal power production. Of course the hips rotate as a unit, but IMO it's the outside hip muscles doing the initial work.
Yeah, I got that from your original post. I simply don't agree. I think the inside hip push is the initial catalyst due to the unloading of the loaded energy on that side of the body. Initial inner hip unlocking/pushing rather than outer hip pullling.
If it's an inner push rather than an outer pull, what clears the outside shoulder/non-hitting arm. Wouldn't it impede the swing to some degree?
J
When the forward swing is initiated in an ATP forehand?
J
I think there must be a split second in time when all the coiling/back swing has stopped and the forward, uncoiling begins. One could argue the racket may be in continual motion but really due to gravity vice any muscle input.Can you explain what this means?
My impression is that the body is already in motion at the time of the forward swing. Since a lot of the body is already in motion, what exactly are we to identify as moving "first"?
If you are talking about the forward motion, I've been told that ideally the hips should move forward before the racket. Studying slow motion of the pros when they have time is probably the best way to see what is happening.
I feel the outer side of the entire body progressively engages as core rotation moves closer and closer towards its apex. Pushing is a more efficient and powerful way to initially release the stored energy resulting from loading/coiling. Again, I think in a practical sense, everything works in synch, but if I had to split hairs it is pushing that initiates the release of stored energy.
Regarding the off arm and shoulder, this is a natural part of rotation Remember, the question is was which moves first and my reply was if the hips move first, it is the inner hip not the outer hip. In practical terms all the body parts flow in synch -- we are talking nano-seconds here.
It seems like a pretty simple question to me.
Wouldn't it be towards the top of the list of things you should know if you want to explain how atp forehands are hit?
J
Where does the calf muscle move?
J
It seems like a pretty simple question to me.
Wouldn't it be towards the top of the list of things you should know if you want to explain how atp forehands are hit?
J
Why do you think this is a simple question?
It is a simple question, it's a very simple question.
People who say it's not a simple question are trying to justify their not knowing the answer.
J
Barium, Carbon, Potassium, Thorium, Astatine, Arsenic, Sulfur, Uranium, Phosphorus
Why do you think this is a simple question?
Seems to make more sense to me to follow a movement pattern rather than to try to exactly determine to the fraction of a second which part of the body "starts" the movement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ImeQaAyFPc
Watching the video of the Fed, I don't see a pause between the backswing and the forward swing. I think that the hips are turning first, but it is hard to tell. Since the leg is connected to the hip, you can't necessarily isolate one part of the body and say "that moved first." Muscle groups tend to work together.
It seems to me that there are a lot of parts working in unison. I'm not sure you can say for certainty that any one thing is the first to move, can you? Our bodies are marvelous creations, with different parts capable of moving in unison, so I don't necessarily view this like a line of dominoes where one single thing/move triggers the next and so on.
If I start from the end of my backswing, I would say my hips begin to rotate and my arm starts coming forward at the same time. Granted, your arm will come forward anyway due to the rotation, but you still swing the racquet and rotate your core at the same time.
I admit, maybe I'm wrong, and but that's how it seems/feels to me.
Can the hips lead without some push off the ground?
It can be argued that the hip starts the chain, but needs the push off the ground to make any kind of firing movement.
It seems to me that there are a lot of parts working in unison. I'm not sure you can say for certainty that any one thing is the first to move, can you? Our bodies are marvelous creations, with different parts capable of moving in unison, so I don't necessarily view this like a line of dominoes where one single thing/move triggers the next and so on.
If I start from the end of my backswing, I would say my hips begin to rotate and my arm starts coming forward at the same time. Granted, your arm will come forward anyway due to the rotation, but you still swing the racquet and rotate your core at the same time.
I admit, maybe I'm wrong, and but that's how it seems/feels to me.
My forearm (and more importantly the racquet) actually snaps backwards when I initiate the "forward swing". So my arm is definitely NOT starting to come forward when I initiate the hip rotation.
My forearm (and more importantly the racquet) actually snaps backwards when I initiate the "forward swing". So my arm is definitely NOT starting to come forward when I initiate the hip rotation.
^^Yeah, I'm just letting loose of the forearm, hand and the racquet. What happens when I rotate the hips is that the elbow is drawn forward (by the rotating shoulders) and the loose hand (and the racquet) lags by staying in place, causing ESR and forearm rotation, which is then rotated back by ISR.
The key is the takeback position of the forearm (at ISR), and letting loose. What helped me to find that motion is thinking of swinging the arm forward with the hips, with the pinky finger leading the way forward (causing the ESR).