What's up with Fed's shoulder tilt in his 1hbh prep?

Well, even if he isn't getting the full chest press, I would bet he's getting the same leverage from locking out the shoulder joint either muscularly or mechanically just from his specific geometry. The point is you want that joint to be a one way hinge from early in the turn of the shoulder. If it's got slop then you will lose some of the energy by getting lag in that joint. Maybe that could work for some people, but it's an extra complication which seems to be problematic for several reasons.

So Federer may be a little different but I think his technique basically the same.
Regarding locking out of the shoulder joint. I speculated that if the accelerating torque of the uppermost body is strong the shoulder muscles may not be able to produce enough torque to accelerate the arm forward while that strong uppermost body torque is being applied. But maybe joints can be locked out after the upper arm is off the chest and be accelerated from uppermost body turn, with no chest contact. This might take the shoulder joint muscles out of producing racket head speed over much of the forward path to impact. Maybe that is what we saw in the Thiem post #70.

There is another biomechanical feature that I now recall - if muscles are activated and put under tension but held from moving and then suddenly released the muscles can then move more quickly. An example that was given in a reference, was snapping the fingers. Snap fingers as usual with 2nd finger stopped by thumb. Now move index finger as fast as possible but without using the thumb - it's slower. Could the uppermost body torque and acceleration stop the shoulder muscles from moving the upper arm? Would the shoulder then move the arm faster when the uppermost body torque stopped?

Anyway, there are various options and timing and I believe that the upper arm and uppermost body are seen to move together in the majority of top backhands. Percentages to be determined.

Which of these two distinct one hand backhand techniques will be shown to have the highest pace?
 
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IowaGuy

Hall of Fame
Agree. His backhand technique is high level and very effective. He improved it for 2017 for that great year.

Can you find another ATP player with similar technique?
Besides Tsitsipas, Shapo may be another candidate for a Fed-like technique. (need to find some more slow-mo footage of him, not that much on youtube yet...)

 
Well, even if he isn't getting the full chest press, I would bet he's getting the same leverage from locking out the shoulder joint either muscularly or mechanically just from his specific geometry. The point is you want that joint to be a one way hinge from early in the turn of the shoulder. If it's got slop then you will lose some of the energy by getting lag in that joint. Maybe that could work for some people, but it's an extra complication which seems to be problematic for several reasons.

So Federer may be a little different but I think his technique basically the same.
I'd agree, saw some pressing in some of Feds also. With regards to lag in shoulder, .... wrote some things but could be a lot of things,....
 
Regarding locking out of the shoulder joint. I speculated that if the accelerating torque of the uppermost body is strong the shoulder muscles may not be able to produce enough torque to accelerate the arm forward while that strong uppermost body torque is being applied. But maybe joints can be locked out after the upper arm is off the chest and be accelerated from uppermost body turn, with no chest contact. This might take the shoulder joint muscles out producing racket head speed over much of the forward path to impact. Maybe that is what we saw in the Thiem post.

There is another feature that I now recall - if muscles are activated and put under tension but held from moving and then suddenly released the muscles can then move more quickly. An example for this given in the reference, was snapping the fingers. Could the uppermost body torque and acceleration stop the shoulder muscles from moving the upper arm?

Anyway there are various options and timing and I believe that the upper arm and uppermost body are seen to move together in the majority of top backhands. Percentages to be determined.

Which of these two distinct pne hand backhand techniques will be shown to have the highest pace?
I think your right that there is/may be a something going on with "locking things" in that substitutes for a "press", maybe used more when rushed for "pressers".
Sometimes there's a "relaxed" feeling with the shot and it's awesome, other times it seems more "flexed", there seems to be an on, off, on....of certain muscle groups that needs to be timed with the ball speed, contact point and this " release" into the shot
 
Regarding locking out of the shoulder joint. I speculated that if the accelerating torque of the uppermost body is strong the shoulder muscles may not be able to produce enough torque to accelerate the arm forward while that strong uppermost body torque is being applied. But maybe joints can be locked out after the upper arm is off the chest and be accelerated from uppermost body turn, with no chest contact. This might take the shoulder joint muscles out of producing racket head speed over much of the forward path to impact. Maybe that is what we saw in the Thiem post #70.

There is another biomechanical feature that I now recall - if muscles are activated and put under tension but held from moving and then suddenly released the muscles can then move more quickly. An example that was given in a reference, was snapping the fingers. Snap fingers as usual with 2nd finger stopped by thumb. Now move index finger as fast as possible but without using the thumb - it's slower. Could the uppermost body torque and acceleration stop the shoulder muscles from moving the upper arm? Would the shoulder then move the arm faster when the uppermost body torque stopped?

Anyway, there are various options and timing and I believe that the upper arm and uppermost body are seen to move together in the majority of top backhands. Percentages to be determined.

Which of these two distinct one hand backhand techniques will be shown to have the highest pace?
FYI when I use the term "shoulder rotation", it's what you called shoulder girdle rotation. Most of us mean that with that term ... tired of typing girdle.

"Regarding locking out of the shoulder joint. I speculated that if the accelerating torque of the uppermost body is strong the shoulder muscles may not be able to produce enough torque to accelerate the arm forward while that strong uppermost body torque is being applied."

What arm acceleration from shoulder joint at the start of the shoulder turn?

I thought @Kevo nailed it.

"I would bet he's getting the same leverage from locking out the shoulder joint either muscularly or mechanically just from his specific geometry. The point is you want that joint to be a one way hinge from early in the turn of the shoulder. "

The arm doesn't accelerate at start of the shoulder turn. All that is happening is the upperarm is keeping up with shoulder turn. This requires minimum "muscle" ... and if a player has some joint locking technique, even better.

"Could the uppermost body torque and acceleration stop the shoulder muscles from moving the upper arm?" Would the shoulder then move the arm faster when the uppermost body torque stopped?"

The upper arm moves in sync with the shoulder turn at the start, and then the arm releases (shoulder/upper arm angle) more on the way to contact. Yes ... point of shoulder turn pause so arm can release (speed up into contact). That is the point of not rotating shoulders through contact. This is easier to follow on FHs. I created a thread with video/pics where the hand (and therefore arm) clearly travel with the start of the shoulder turn. But if you watch Fed, his arm continues forward from shoulder joint significantly after shoulders stop rotating forward.

It's harder to track initial shoulder line/arm angle in the 1hbh than the FH, because of the big shoulder/arm angle in the 1hbh. Also, not nearly the amount of shoulder/arm angle release into contact. Just compare hitting arm positions from slot and contact.

"Anyway, there are various options and timing and I believe that the upper arm and uppermost body are seen to move together in the majority of top backhands. "

Upper body, shoulders, arm move together at start of turn, but arm pulls ahead and wins race to contact.
 
Not perfect angle, but Fed 1hbh arm release into contact (would have been better from slot):



That's not a very big arm angle release from the shoulder joint. Compare that to FH below:

 
Chas - when you say prefer, are you saying that for your personal BH you prefer this technique? Or are you saying that you think it is technically superior from a biomechanical perspective?

I think one advantage of Fed's technique might be more precision, as he says more sideways through the shot and doesn't over-rotate as much as Gasquet/Wawrinka. This may allow him to hit targets more accurately? (He can really paint the lines with that 1HBH, especially when he was playing a smaller frame!)



I've been having trouble with the 1HBH(balls keep going into the net) since trying to switch to it from the 2HBH a few years ago. I've been working on going back to the 2HBH recently, same issue, balls keep going into the net. Today, I was working with the ball machine and tried staying more closed/side-ways on the follow through like Federer in the above pic. Amazingly, I was hitting a much heavier ball and hit into the net less. Unfortunately, not rotating my upper body caused me to lose sight of the ball for a second or two, particular when hitting crosscourt.
 
I've been having trouble with the 1HBH(balls keep going into the net) since trying to switch to it from the 2HBH a few years ago. I've been working on going back to the 2HBH recently, same issue, balls keep going into the net. Today, I was working with the ball machine and tried staying more closed/side-ways on the follow through like Federer in the above pic. Amazingly, I was hitting a much heavier ball and hit into the net less. Unfortunately, not rotating my upper body caused me to lose sight of the ball for a second or two, particular when hitting crosscourt.

Gotta work on flexibility of the neck, this pic is scarry good, there maybe other secrets yet to be revealed
 
Watching Dimitrov on tennis channel right now ... looks like nipple to arm clearance. (y)

Wouldn't females have more nipple to arm assist advantage? :p
That looks like chest pressing arm for Dimitrov. Look at first backhand or one at 1:22. Full screen do frame by frame. Clear, high speed videos for seeing this. I believe that if the arm can't be seen separated from the chest and the upper arm and shoulder move together that is about as good as we will observe. Elbow not as straight as some other backhands.

I don't know the variety that an individual player might be using for different incoming ball heights or pace for shot.
 
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I've been having trouble with the 1HBH(balls keep going into the net) since trying to switch to it from the 2HBH a few years ago. I've been working on going back to the 2HBH recently, same issue, balls keep going into the net. Today, I was working with the ball machine and tried staying more closed/side-ways on the follow through like Federer in the above pic. Amazingly, I was hitting a much heavier ball and hit into the net less. Unfortunately, not rotating my upper body caused me to lose sight of the ball for a second or two, particular when hitting crosscourt.
The term 'upper body' means from the waist up. There is a rotation around the spine/neck area of just the shoulder girdle. I've been calling that the rotation of the uppermost body. Look at the head as it stays still and see how the shoulder girdle rotates. The area between the pelvis and shoulder girdle twists. Abdominal muscle can do that actively or from stretch shorten cycles of individual muscles. All these rotations would show best from a camera view from above the player. Don't believe staying sideways without shoulder girdle.

For balls going in the net take high speed videos of the racket impacting the ball, from the side of the ball's trajectory looking at the top edge of the racket, edge on. That should identify why you are hitting the net.

Ideal high speed video observation to show why the ball goes in the net. Shows racket path, tilt of racket face, effect of impact on racket face. Show more of ball trajectory.
 
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That looks like chest pressing arm for Dimitrov. Look at first backhand or one at 1:22. Full screen do frame by frame. Clear, high speed videos for seeing this. I believe that if the arm can't be seen separated from the chest and the upper arm and shoulder move together that is about as good as we will observe. Elbow not as straight as some other backhands.

I don't know the variety that an individual player might be using for different incoming ball heights or pace for shot.
Definitely pinning it in the take back, so .... and it looks like its prob pinned in start foward in a bunch
 

IowaGuy

Hall of Fame
I've been having trouble with the 1HBH(balls keep going into the net) since trying to switch to it from the 2HBH a few years ago. I've been working on going back to the 2HBH recently, same issue, balls keep going into the net. Today, I was working with the ball machine and tried staying more closed/side-ways on the follow through like Federer in the above pic. Amazingly, I was hitting a much heavier ball and hit into the net less. Unfortunately, not rotating my upper body caused me to lose sight of the ball for a second or two, particular when hitting crosscourt.
For me personally, I have to focus on staying sideways through the shot for my 1HBH (like Fed).

IME, really focusing on keeping that off-hand back behind you can help with this, along with keeping your head down at impact (Fed is the master of this!).

If instead I try Wawrinka's "over-rotation" technique, by BH is much more inconsistent... (but of course it works for him, so YMMV)
 
That looks like chest pressing arm for Dimitrov. Look at first backhand or one at 1:22. Full screen do frame by frame. Clear, high speed videos for seeing this. I believe that if the arm can't be seen separated from the chest and the upper arm and shoulder move together that is about as good as we will observe. Elbow not as straight as some other backhands.

I don't know the variety that an individual player might be using for different incoming ball heights or pace for shot.
Probably angle from behind best to check this.


 
@StringSnapper @J011yroger @ChaelAZ @FiReFTW

This came up in another thread. I noticed Fed, and many pros often have shoulders tilted forward in the backswing of their 1hbhs. I was stumped at first trying to figure out the "why" ... what did it gain him? I think I came up with the reasons below ... please chime in if I'm wrong, or there is a better explanation.

Note: video at bottom of post.



On many of Fed's 1hbh strokes, he has a shoulder tilt forward at backswing, gets to level or shoulder tilt up by contact, and finishes with shoulder tilted up in follow through. Note: the arm in the follow through finishes in line with shoulder line, not arm raised above shoulder line (The hand ends up above head because of shoulder tilt up ... not because the arm swing path took the arm up in the shoulder joint above shoulder line).

At first I thought, maybe he just tilts laterally in the prep. No, that does not seem to happen. Then I thought, he is lifting the racquet with off hand in backswing, so it's really the left shoulder coming up causing the tilt. That theory lasted a while until it hit me ... if you bend at the waist, then rotate the shoulders, the back shoulder goes up, and the front shoulder goes down. DOH!!! or is that DUH!!! At a minimum, maybe rec 1hbh players need to consider if they need to bend at the waist more ... and when.

OK ... fine ... that explains the shoulder tilt, but why the bending at the waist. This is my best theory ... maybe others can explain it better.

I think Fed is trying to hit the stroke with his hitting arm as close to the shoulder line as possible. If you consider the best serves (read that here ... ttw can be good) happen with the arm aligned with shoulders line (we tilt shoulders rather than just raise arm up). That is the power source. I think Fed is trying to come as close to that as possible with the 1hbh. He can't exactly in the backswing and initial swing ... the arm is angled down some with the drop to slot. BUT ... if you watch his full 1hbh strokes, it seems pretty apparent he is staying close enough to shoulder line to get the easy shoulder rotation power (requires less arm addition in stroke). For example ... I checked my 1hbh video. I don't bend enough, so when I have to hit a waist (or lower) 1hbh, the only way to do that is to drop the hand lower (my angle at right shoulder to right arm is bigger than Fed by quite a bit). By definition, if you lose shoulder rotation power/efficiency ... pretty much leaves the arm to make up the difference.

I guess my main thought is other than high 1hbhs which require a more horizontal swing (arm more in line with shoulder line), I think a bunch of us rec players need to bend at the waist more on many 1hbhs. Most of us are plugged into "bend the knees more" ... to which I say "up yours, my knees are about to be 61". But now my response might be "dude ... your bending of the knees so you can keep from bending at your waste is robbing you of 1hbh power".

I like this ... I like the idea of bending at the waist more than deep knee bend. I also already knew I needed a better hand swing path from the slot to above my shoulders. I had the false idea I needed to lift the arm more at the shoulder joint. Don't think so.... think I need to tilt the shoulder line up more at contact while bent at waist ... and do all of it with more easy power because arm stayed closer in line with shoulder line.

That is my theory until ttw destroys it.

In the first 2 backhands, fed hits "harder", uses more " chest press", the second one is higher ball and he goes less cross court, in both he gets arm straight earlier than shots 3 and 4 (which are softer than 1,2)
Theim straightens arm on take back, Waw straightens arm at start forward as does Lopez, Cuevas, Shapo and alot of others. Videos of light practice not indicative of match play (mainly noted in Fed video a few posts earlier).
How close elbow is to torso out of slot is dependent on how high shot is and how much chess press out of slot. Seems like less chest press on dtl , mid court, than cross court. Straight arm out of slot, elbow close to torso.
Tilt determined by how high in strike zone. When your on tip toes and ball still shoulder height, tough to tilt.
Lot of variation. All above true sometimes. Prob not universally true is all cases.
Disclaimer: I am not a doctor
 
.................................................
Theim straightens arm on take back, Waw straightens arm at start forward as does Lopez, Cuevas, Shapo and alot of others. Videos of light practice not indicative of match play (mainly noted in Fed video a few posts earlier).
............................................................
Lopez - Straight arm - yes. I don't think that he has a press for a considerable time.

To see the best technique for pace, observe the best that they can do under favorable circumstances - when they intend to hit pace. Sometimes they hit hard during practice but often not. Videos from warm up or early in practice, we probably should never consider.

For a couple of years I tried to observe the line of contact between the arm and chest. Then I realized the arm is circular and the chest is rounded, the flesh compresses to a variable degree, clothes are there - the line is not very certain or accurately seen. I also thought of squeezing a credit card between the chest and upper arm as a way to communicate that forces were there if the credit card stayed and not there if the credit card fell out.

The way the upper arm moves relative to the shoulders line now seems more reliable. That would seem to indicate pressing forces but not prove pressing forces.............3D motion capture measurements, as shown for Federer, are the best available imaging but hard to find. But imaging cannot observe a mm space between the chest and upper arm deep down. A pressure or force sensor measurement would be very useful.

A line for the shoulders and a line for the upper arm. Shown for two frames.
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...art-forward-swing.462997/page-3#post-11077305

Everybody can take their arm and place it across their chest and see the arm angles, how far out from the arm pit the chest can remain in contact with the upper arm, feel pressure, turn body with arm against a wall, etc. The line of the straight arm is out from the chest by a considerable to large angle.
 
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In the first 2 backhands, fed hits "harder", uses more " chest press", the second one is higher ball and he goes less cross court, in both he gets arm straight earlier than shots 3 and 4 (which are softer than 1,2)
Theim straightens arm on take back, Waw straightens arm at start forward as does Lopez, Cuevas, Shapo and alot of others. Videos of light practice not indicative of match play (mainly noted in Fed video a few posts earlier).
How close elbow is to torso out of slot is dependent on how high shot is and how much chess press out of slot. Seems like less chest press on dtl , mid court, than cross court. Straight arm out of slot, elbow close to torso.
Tilt determined by how high in strike zone. When your on tip toes and ball still shoulder height, tough to tilt.
Lot of variation. All above true sometimes. Prob not universally true is all cases.
Disclaimer: I am not a doctor
Sounds like you are a 1hbh surgeon.
 
Since we have left the "tilted shoulder theory" and now "all things 1hbh", let me throw one more in the mix. If I work on my 1hbh in Spring, I will get video from the side and from the front (rather than just from behind) to check hand swing path.



I think this is where follow through is informative. For the entire swing path, you would of course want to watch from the back of the slot right when the shoulders start rotating forward. But I think these three frames are informative for three key things 1) position at contact 2) hand swing path from pic #1 to pic #3 ... and 3) extension in pic #2.

Again ... I will use my 1hbh as an example of what I would check in my videos, and work on.

I end up in decent final hand position (Fed pic #3) in many of my 1hbhs ... my hand will be up at ear level. But when I watch closer ... that is deceiving. What happens way too often is my actual hand path (swing path ... and yes, you have to really do this with racquet head ... but this makes the point) ... my hand finishes the swing below shoulder ... and then I raise my hand from there into the higher hand position. WTF? My only guess how this came about is I know in my mind I was trying to add low to high ts to my flattish stroke, and I know in my head I have to finish higher. I tricked myself into thinking I was ... by that last after the fact lifting of the hand. I frickin lied to myself. :mad:

The other thing ... I think which is related, is the good extension in pic #2 on the way to to pic #3 hand position (also racquet face orientation). I can see in my flatter swing path a lack of good extension toward the the net at some point in the swing after contact (I seem to break off too quick). I have noticed the same thing with my 2hbh ... I hit my best 2hbh strokes when my left arm extends out toward net/target during follow through.

My guess is this is the type of swing attribute that matter much more than our "tilting" and "nipple pressing". I think this is where the phrase "just stick to fundamentals" seems a bit vague to me. "Sticking to fundamentals" implies you can list them. Are my examples in this post "fundamentals". Is trying to swing arms closer to shoulder plane a fundamental? Easy to proclaim ... but lists vary.
 
Since you guys are getting expertise into these micro surgeries, let me put another vague theory into the mix (something which I am not sure of as well). On some of those strong backhand drives, you can see the pros get into a crooked leg rotation to engage/coil the hips more, but not always. What I mean is that the right leg pointing forward, and left leg pointing sideways or even to back corner (instead of both legs sideways), and then as part of the planting of right foot, and release of left foot, the hip rotates a small distance with a good torque before contact.

Why pros don't do this always since theoretically it can engage the hips more? what determines when they do the crooked legs position?

Sounds like you are a 1hbh surgeon.
 
Since you guys are getting expertise into these micro surgeries, let me put another vague theory into the mix (something which I am not sure of as well). On some of those strong backhand drives, you can see the pros get into a crooked leg rotation to engage/coil the hips more, but not always. What I mean is that the right leg pointing forward, and left leg pointing sideways or even to back corner (instead of both legs sideways), and then as part of the planting of right foot, and release of left foot, the hip rotates a small distance with a good torque before contact.

Why pros don't do this always since theoretically it can engage the hips more? what determines when they do the crooked legs position?
Edit: it's pretty standard to point front foot more forward like left net post. I haven't looked for that with 1hbh ... 1hbh has been ignored for 3-4 years.

Awesome ... more 1hbh theories ... let's put @Curious on this one. 8-B(y)

I know we hit closed stance BHs (1hbh and 2hbh) around front hip (right hip for right handers), and around back/left hip for open BHs. I guess I never really thought about hip rotation before contact ... just viewed it as spinning around that front hip after contact.

Check out Wawrinka's first 1hbh below, and several of Djoker's 2hbh. Looks like all of them have hip rotation before contact. That is logical if I thought about it. I think hip rotation and shoulder rotation travel together, and since we have shoulder rotation before contact we would also have hip rotation before contact.

I would think the thing to look for is if pros are using a longer range of hip rotation into contact than we typically are as rec players.


 
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Theoretically (just pure theory, no evidence... well far from practical),
if you crook the legs before loading, it can spring load hips
if you fire the hips without rotating upper body, it can spring load upper body
if you rotate upper body without rotating shoulder (wait.... can you do that..... nghaa... ok lets forget about this)....
if you rotate shoulders/upper body without rotating arms it can spring load arms (and chest press)...
finally if you fire this spring loaded arms.... up, through and over.....

Haha... maybe @Curious can try and video tape this "theoretical sequence", and still be in one piece after.

also have hip rotation before contact.
hip rotation and shoulder rotation travel together,
 
Even though I said that as a joke, I think there is some of that "sequence" involved at times, but on a 1hbh since there is very less room for all these, a lot of the time the "sequence" is not too obvious or separated, making it almost together. But at times you can observe intervals where hip stopped rotating and upper/shoulder still rotates.... and at times when shoulder stops and arm continue to fire...
 
Theoretically (just pure theory, no evidence... well far from practical),
if you crook the legs before loading, it can spring load hips
if you fire the hips without rotating upper body, it can spring load upper body
if you rotate upper body without rotating shoulder (wait.... can you do that..... nghaa... ok lets forget about this)....
if you rotate shoulders/upper body without rotating arms it can spring load arms (and chest press)...
finally if you fire this spring loaded arms.... up, through and over.....

Haha... maybe @Curious can try and video tape this "theoretical sequence", and still be in one piece after.
Link a video example of this "crooking of the legs"
 
Even though I said that as a joke, I think there is some of that "sequence" involved at times, but on a 1hbh since there is very less room for all these, a lot of the time the "sequence" is not too obvious or separated, making it almost together. But at times you can observe intervals where hip stopped rotating and upper/shoulder still rotates.... and at times when shoulder stops and arm continue to fire...
coil -> full hips then shoulders past hips

uncoil -> hips and shoulders together (some say hips fraction earlier), hip uncoiling finishes but shoulder turn continues

Check first 1hbh in Wawrinka video above ... shoulders keep going in swing after right hip rotation ends.
 
Man.... you got me. I cannot find extreme examples. I am only talking about the "closed" stances here. But like you said, "typically" the right leg points forward, and the right knee points forward, but left knee and left leg stays sideways or even slightly to back (instead of in same direction as right knee/foot), just before planting the right foot. Also the more closed it is the more tight the hips are. I think you can see "slight" crookedness at 0:25 of the video you posted, engaging the hips.

Also as someone mentioned before, sometimes on a running backhand, you can skip this and still engage the hips because of momentum towards direction of running, while planting right foot (and taking all weight of left foot).
Link a video example of this "crooking of the legs"
Looks like it.
Check first 1hbh in Wawrinka video above ... shoulders keep going in swing after right hip rotation ends.
 
Since you guys are getting expertise into these micro surgeries, let me put another vague theory into the mix (something which I am not sure of as well). On some of those strong backhand drives, you can see the pros get into a crooked leg rotation to engage/coil the hips more, but not always. What I mean is that the right leg pointing forward, and left leg pointing sideways or even to back corner (instead of both legs sideways), and then as part of the planting of right foot, and release of left foot, the hip rotates a small distance with a good torque before contact.

Why pros don't do this always since theoretically it can engage the hips more? what determines when they do the crooked legs position?
Can you post a video?
 
Must be this intensive fitness thing that I have been doing lately. Especially the rowing machine. I thought I was mindful and had a perfect form while rowing but that may still be the culprit. Luckily it doesn't look like a sciatic issue.
I've noticed things tightening up, causing pain, recommend stretching multiple times a day and hot shower water on back. It will prob go away if you keep at it (exercise).
 
Man.... you got me. I cannot find extreme examples. I am only talking about the "closed" stances here. But like you said, "typically" the right leg points forward, and the right knee points forward, but left knee and left leg stays sideways or even slightly to back (instead of in same direction as right knee/foot), just before planting the right foot. Also the more closed it is the more tight the hips are. I think you can see "slight" crookedness at 0:25 of the video you posted, engaging the hips.

Also as someone mentioned before, sometimes on a running backhand, you can skip this and still engage the hips because of momentum towards direction of running, while planting right foot (and taking all weight of left foot).


Looks like it.
Talking about FHs, Sinjin had said the best players introduce hip and shoulder coiling with/during the step. Open stance FH coiling was always obvious to me, but not so much with square stance lateral weight transfer to front foot.
 
Must be this intensive fitness thing that I have been doing lately. Especially the rowing machine. I thought I was mindful and had a perfect form while rowing but that may still be the culprit. Luckily it doesn't look like a sciatic issue.
I have never had a sciatic issue (wife did ... took over a year to resolve), but do get occasional lower back muscle pain. I think it's from running gate compensation due to lack of flex in right big toe.

I like this stretch, but laying on my back on a mat.


The stretch below @3:30 really seems to help. I used to lay on a mat on my back with a tennis ball on the spot, then pedal my leg like on a bike. Helped some ... but like the following stretch better. He has some exercises later in video.

 
Update:

I got to hit the ball machine yesterday ... it got up to 48 degree F and not wind. I mainly hit 2hbhs, but at the end tried some 1hbhs with this thread in mind:

This thread started with my question about tilted shoulders in the prep, but I no longer think that was much of an issue. I think the really useful idea was trying to swing your 1hbh hitting arm as close to the shoulder plane as possible (I think Kevo said slot plane or something).

With that in mind, I hit a couple of hoppers of 1hbh with only two main thoughts:
1) setup slightly farther away from ball/contact (more spacing) in order to avoid my arm hanging down at too much of an angle, forcing me to use more arm than if it was being helped more with the shoulder turn
2) follow through more high to low ... from contact to right ear should be more of a straight line than my flatter swing path that might end up with hand up at ear level, but instead of straight line ... horizontal and then up. Just a long way to say more low to high with better extension.

Yep ... was a real thing, at least for me. By simply add more spacing, my arm ended up closer to shoulder swing plane (closer, we never get there unless a very high ball), very easy increase in pace. Or maybe a better way to say it, I felt less effort required with shoulder and arm muscle. I think we are stuck no matter what using quite a bit of shoulder/arm muscle in a 1hbh ... but I noticed a change immediately. I might try more 1hbhs in spring, and video review.

I took a snapshot of my contact point on a knee high ball, and also Henin and Fed on a knee high ball. The spacing difference was obvious ... my hand fairly close to my knee, and both Henin and Fed closer to the waist (racquet head below hand). Obvioulsly lots of variety depending on shot and intention with the shot ... but to me was pretty good evidence I could benefit on 1hbh by better spacing further away from contact. I know it felt really good ... I guess that is the best feedback we ever get.

At contact on knee high ball: (My thought is I should setup for that same ball I'm hitting a foot or so further to the side/right. Reaching more, will bring my arm up from shoulder and reduce that angle, and will get a better shoulder turn momentum hand off to the arm. I felt the difference, but obviously need more reps. )

 
Update:

I got to hit the ball machine yesterday ... it got up to 48 degree F and not wind. I mainly hit 2hbhs, but at the end tried some 1hbhs with this thread in mind:

This thread started with my question about tilted shoulders in the prep, but I no longer think that was much of an issue. I think the really useful idea was trying to swing your 1hbh hitting arm as close to the shoulder plane as possible (I think Kevo said slot plane or something).

With that in mind, I hit a couple of hoppers of 1hbh with only two main thoughts:
1) setup slightly farther away from ball/contact (more spacing) in order to avoid my arm hanging down at too much of an angle, forcing me to use more arm than if it was being helped more with the shoulder turn
2) follow through more high to low ... from contact to right ear should be more of a straight line than my flatter swing path that might end up with hand up at ear level, but instead of straight line ... horizontal and then up. Just a long way to say more low to high with better extension.

Yep ... was a real thing, at least for me. By simply add more spacing, my arm ended up closer to shoulder swing plane (closer, we never get there unless a very high ball), very easy increase in pace. Or maybe a better way to say it, I felt less effort required with shoulder and arm muscle. I think we are stuck no matter what using quite a bit of shoulder/arm muscle in a 1hbh ... but I noticed a change immediately. I might try more 1hbhs in spring, and video review.

I took a snapshot of my contact point on a knee high ball, and also Henin and Fed on a knee high ball. The spacing difference was obvious ... my hand fairly close to my knee, and both Henin and Fed closer to the waist (racquet head below hand). Obvioulsly lots of variety depending on shot and intention with the shot ... but to me was pretty good evidence I could benefit on 1hbh by better spacing further away from contact. I know it felt really good ... I guess that is the best feedback we ever get.

At contact on knee high ball: (My thought is I should setup for that same ball I'm hitting a foot or so further to the side/right. Reaching more, will bring my arm up from shoulder and reduce that angle, and will get a better shoulder turn momentum hand off to the arm. I felt the difference, but obviously need more reps. )

So is the following similar? I found after a lower back issue I was not bending foward at the waist on ohbh. Had a lot if issues with the shots. Now i'm leaning in more bringing shoulders down toward the ball and not lifting torso up but staying down in the shot and just lifting arm up through the shot.
 
So is the following similar? I found after a lower back issue I was not bending foward at the waist on ohbh. Had a lot if issues with the shots. Now i'm leaning in more bringing shoulders down toward the ball and not lifting torso up but staying down in the shot and just lifting arm up through the shot.
Short answer ... yes, I bet it is related.

Obviously I am hoping my "thoughts/theories" draw in the real coaches *** @Kevo *** 8-B, but :

My thoughts:

My biggest takeaway is I am in a position where my arm is angled too far down from the shoulder above to take advantage of the shoulder uncoiling assisting in the slinging of the arm on a 1hbh. That is important, because we have to make up a bad "slinging" with more muscle. If we shadow swing good shoulder turn 1hbh with hitting arm and racquet straight out to the side with shoulders level, it feels like minimum arm effort to help complete the swing. Now try the other extreme, do same shadow swing with arms and racquet starting hanging straight down. You will still get an assist from the shoulder uncoiling, but you obviously have to use more shoulder and arm muscle to complete swing.

My theory is the closer you can move to the level swing, the least you have to add from shoulder and arm (should also lead to max pace).

So how to accomplish that:
1) get lower by bending knees more (is that why Kerber and Radwanska touches the court with their butts? :p)
2) bend at the waist more
3) setup up further to the side

In my pic above, I seemed to have bent knees and am bending at the waist ... so I think I need to increase spacing. I guess spacing could mean 1) how much to the side 2) how far is contact in front.

My thinking is the 1hbh swing starts from the back of the slot (where shoulders start rotating forward), so that is the point your arm is getting it's intial shoulder assist. To me, that is a "to the side" spacing issue.

Yep ... hurt back and no bending must have been a lot MORE arm on low balls.

Edit: this is all in context of "a given hip/shoulder turn", the biggest payoff I would think always comes from increasing the shoulder turn if you can.
 
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Kevo

Hall of Fame
Spacing is critical on the 1HBH. It might be the most critical element of learning to hit it really well.

As for the shoulder uncoiling it can happen in a limited fashion in the vertical plane as well as the horizontal plane.

When I teach someone a 1HBH for the first time, especially beginners, we usually don't use much torso or shoulder rotation. It's mostly a down - up motion sort of like swinging a pail of water. It's very simple, but quite effective and the directional control is outstanding. Then as we progress we "wind up" more of the body in preparation for the shot and naturally start to gain more power and spin.
 
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