Whats your top 10 of all time now (men)

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by granddog29, Aug 19, 2013.

  1. Dan Lobb

    Dan Lobb Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2011
    Messages:
    7,834
    Well, the point is that injuries and illnesses have an explanatory effect on performance, and we should pay attention to them.

    It appears that you agree with that, given your comments on Rosewall and Roland Garros 1959.
     
    pc1 likes this.
  2. Ivan69

    Ivan69 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 22, 2016
    Messages:
    2,393
    Obviously Nole is trying to improve the record of losses vs top 20+ players. I am very sad to say it but I think Nole is over with the top tennis. I see weaknesses in all areas of his game - physics, movement, mentality. No matter what he is saying to the press Marco wasn't the better player today. Nole was the weaker.

    And all this is a result of Nole's own mistakes - change of Becker, the guru and the famous diet. I don't know a sportsman playing physical sport using such a diet. Nobody changes the coach when being at the top. NOBODY!
    Shame, Nole, big shame!
     
  3. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2007
    Messages:
    15,184
    Location:
    Eurolager desert
    ^^^Djoker looked tired, also.
     
  4. Ivan69

    Ivan69 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 22, 2016
    Messages:
    2,393
    He looked tired since the beginning of the year. It cannot be different when eating only grasses and corns.
     
  5. Drob

    Drob Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2013
    Messages:
    469


    IS IT OR ISN'T IT?

    Is the WCT a Major, or Not?

    It seems a majority of posters here say it is. But a good many of this majority also qualify things . . . which seems a little bit like us eating our cake and having it.

    In this instance the gentleman says WCT is a Major for only 1971-73. I believe I have even seen posters say only 1971 and 1972. And I have seen multiple posts saying that the WCT was a Major for the 1970s, but then not.

    I would respectfully request everyone's opinion on the simple proposition: The WCT is considered a Major in tennis history. Full stop.

    This is a question - a request for comment. It is not advocacy.

    For your contemplation, I will, in the immediate following posts give the list of the WCT points rankings by year, so we can see who participated in each given year. I think we all know it paid a king's ransom. And posters feel free to introduce any other reasonable factors for why you are voting YES or NO to WCT as a Major.

    If, in fact, the consensus is that the WCT was a Major for some of its existence only, then please specify when it began and stopped being a Major, and why.

    Thanks very much to all.

    I will start by reminding us of the champion and finalist of each year:



    1971

    Ken Rosewall

    Rod Laver

    6–4, 1–6, 7–6(7–3), 7–6(7–4)


    1972

    Ken Rosewall

    Rod Laver

    4–6, 6–0, 6–3, 6–7, 7–6


    1972 winter[a]

    Arthur Ashe

    Bob Lutz

    6–2, 3–6, 6–3, 3–6, 7–6


    1973

    Stan Smith

    Arthur Ashe

    6–3, 6–3, 4–6, 6–4


    1974

    John Newcombe

    Björn Borg

    4–6, 6–3, 6–3, 6–2


    1975

    Arthur Ashe

    Björn Borg

    3–6, 6–4, 6–4, 6–0

    1976

    Björn Borg

    Guillermo Vilas

    1–6, 6–1, 7–5, 6–1


    1977

    Jimmy Connors

    Dick Stockton

    6–7, 6–1, 6–4, 6–3


    1978

    Vitas Gerulaitis

    Eddie Dibbs

    6–3, 6–2, 6–1


    1979

    John McEnroe

    Björn Borg

    7–5, 4–6, 6–2, 7–6


    1980

    Jimmy Connors

    John McEnroe

    2–6, 7–6, 6–1, 6–2


    1981

    John McEnroe

    Johan Kriek

    6–1, 6–2, 6–4


    1982

    Ivan Lendl

    John McEnroe

    6–2, 3–6, 6–3, 6–3


    1982 fall

    Ivan Lendl

    Wojciech Fibak

    6–4, 6–2, 6–1


    1982 winter[c]

    Ivan Lendl

    Guillermo Vilas

    7–5, 6–2, 2–6, 6–4


    1983

    John McEnroe

    Ivan Lendl

    6–2, 4–6, 6–3, 6–7, 7–6


    1984

    John McEnroe

    Jimmy Connors

    6–1, 6–2, 6–3


    1985

    Ivan Lendl

    Tim Mayotte

    7–6, 6–4, 6–1



    1986

    Anders Järryd

    Boris Becker

    6–7, 6–1, 6–1, 6–4


    1987

    Miloslav Mečíř

    John McEnroe

    6–0, 3–6, 6–2, 6–2

    1988

    Boris Becker

    Stefan Edberg

    6–4, 1–6, 7–5, 6–2


    1989

    John McEnroe

    Brad Gilbert

    6–3, 6–3, 7–6
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2018
  6. Drob

    Drob Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2013
    Messages:
    469
    Here are the top-10 rankings of the WCT participant players, 1971-83:


    1971
    • 1 Rod Laver
    • 2 Tom Okker
    • 3 Ken Rosewall
    • 4 Cliff Drysdale
    • 5 Arthur Ashe
    • 6 John Newcombe
    • 7 Marty Riessen
    • 8 Bob Lutz
    • 9 Roy Emerson
    • 10 Andrés Gimeno
    1972

    (in fact second part of 1971 and first part of 1972)

    • 1 Rod Laver
    • 2 Ken Rosewall
    • 3 Tom Okker
    • 4 Cliff Drysdale
    • 5 Marty Riessen
    • 6 Arthur Ashe
    • 7 Bob Lutz
    • 8 John Newcombe
    • 9 Roy Emerson
    • 9 Charlie Pasarell
    1972
    (second part final standings). The first eight players played the 1972 autumn-winter WCT Finals held in Rome.

    • 1 John Newcombe
    • 2 Arthur Ashe
    • 3 Tom Okker
    • 4 Mark Cox
    • 5 Cliff Drysdale
    • 5 Marty Riessen
    • 7 Bob Lutz
    • 7 Niki Pilić
    • 9 Roy Emerson
    • 9 Anthony Roche
    • 9 El Shafei
    1973 [17]
    The players were separated into two groups, A & B, with each group playing certain tournaments. The top 4 from each group qualified for the final at the end of the season.

    Group A
    • 1 Stan Smith
    • 2 Rod Laver
    • 3 Roy Emerson
    • 3 John Alexander
    • 5 Cliff Richey
    • 6 Dick Stockton
    • 7 Bob Lutz
    • 8 Brian Gottfried
    • 9 Colin Dibley
    • 10 J Fillol
    Group B
    • 1 Ken Rosewall
    • 2 Arthur Ashe
    • 3 Marty Riessen
    • 4 Roger Taylor
    • 4 Mark Cox
    • 6 Brian Fairlie
    • 7 Jan Kodeš
    • 8 Tom Okker
    • 9 Roscoe Tanner
    • 10 Tom Gorman
    1974
    The group was divided into three groups, Red, Blue and Green and the top 8 points winners qualified for the final (marked with *) : 2 players by group plus the other two players having most points. Each group played separate tournaments except the Philadelphia tournament at the start of the season.

    Red Group
    • 1 Nastase*
    • 2 Okker*
    • 3 Gorman
    • 4 Drysdale
    • 5 Pilic
    • 6 Pattison
    • 7 John Alexander
    • 8 Riessen
    • 9 Anthony Roche
    • 10 McMillan
    Blue Group
    • 1 John Newcombe*
    • 2 Smith*
    • 3 Metreveli
    • 4 Stockton
    • 5 Hrebec
    • 6 Borowiak
    • 7 Ross Case
    • 8 Ramirez
    • 9 Fillol
    • 10 Richey
    Green Group
    • 1 Ashe*
    • 2 Rod Laver*
    • 3 Borg*
    • 4 Kodes*
    • 5 Cox
    • 6 Tanner
    • 7 Dibbs
    • 8 Taylor
    • 9 Panatta
    • 10 Parun
    1975
    The group was divided into three groups again, Red, Blue and Green and the top 8 points winners qualified for the final (marked with *). Each group played separate tournaments except the Philadelphia tournament at the start of the season.

    Red Group
    • 1 John Alexander*
    • 2 Solomon*
    • 3 Cox*
    • 4 Smith
    • 5 Stockton
    • 6 Lutz
    • 7 Dent
    • 8 Drysdale
    • 9 Amritraj
    • 9 Riessen
    Blue Group
    • 1 Laver*
    • 2 Tanner*
    • 3 Ramirez*
    • 4 Gottfried
    • 5 Gerulaitus
    • 6 Fillol
    • 7 Stone
    • 8 Pattison
    • 9 Borowiak
    • 9 El Shafei
    Green Group
    • 1 Ashe*
    • 2 Borg*
    • 3 Okker
    • 4 Mottram
    • 5 Hewitt
    • 6 Parun
    • 7 Warwick
    • 8 Higueras
    • 9 Dominguez
    • 10 Giltinan

    1976–1983: All the players were put back together and played the same tournaments.

    1976 [18]
    • 1 Ashe
    • 2 Ramirez
    • 3 Vilas
    • 4 Dibbs
    • 5 Borg
    • 6 Stockton
    • 7 Lutz
    • 8 Solomon
    • 9 Gerulaitis
    • 10 Gottfried
    1977
    • 1 Stockton
    • 2 Dibbs
    • 3 Connors
    • 4 Nastase
    • 5 Drysdale
    • 5 Fibak
    • 5 Gerulaitis
    • 8 Panatta
    • 9 Barazzutti
    • 10 Solomon
    • 10 Rosewall
    1978
    • 1 Gerulaitis
    • 2 Borg
    • 3 Dibbs
    • 4 Ramirez
    • 5 Nastase
    • 6 S Mayer
    • 7 Connors
    • 7 Gottfried
    • 9 Stockton
    • 10 Barazzutti
    1979 [19]
    • 1 McEnroe
    • 2 Borg
    • 3 Gerulaitis
    • 4 Connors
    • 5 Tanner
    • 6 G Mayer
    • 7 Ashe
    • 7 Vilas
    • 9 Masters
    • 10 Alexander
    • 10 Gottfried
    • 10 Nastase
    1980
    • 1 McEnroe
    • 2 Scanlon
    • 3 Connors
    • 4 Lendl
    • 4 Tanner
    • 6 Gunthardt
    • 6 V Amritraj
    • 8 Sadri
    • 8 Clerc
    • 10 Gottfried
    • 10 G Mayer
    1981
    • 1 Tanner
    • 2 Connors
    • 3 Fibak
    • 4 Noah
    • 5 McEnroe
    • 6 V Amritraj
    • 7 Gottfried
    • 8 Gerulaitis
    • 9 S Mayer
    • 10 G Mayer
    1982 [20]
    WCT expanded from the previous year and broke away from the Grand Prix for the year. There were three finals, Spring (Dallas) the most important one, Fall (Naples, Italy) and Winter (Detroit) and therefore three different points tables for each season :

    Spring
    • 1 Lendl
    • 2 Clerc
    • 3 Fibak
    • 4 V Amritraj
    • 5 Smid
    • 6 McNamara
    • 7 McEnroe
    • 8 Gerulaitis
    • 9 Taroczy
    • 10 Dibbs
    Summer/Fall
    • 1 Lendl
    • 2 Smid
    • 3 Clerc
    • 4 Vilas
    • 5 Kriek
    • 6 Higueras
    • 7 Gunthardt
    • 7 Fibak
    • 9 Tanner
    • 10 Bourne
    Winter
    • 1 Fibak
    • 2 Scanlon
    • 3 Curren
    • 3 Vilas
    • 5 Taroczy
    • 6 McNamee
    • 7 Lendl
    • 7 Teacher
    • 9 Tom Gullikson
    • 9 Smid
    1983
    There were only 9 tournaments and the WCT were back with the Grand Prix circuit.

    • 1 Lendl
    • 2 McEnroe
    • 3 Vilas
    • 4 Gerulaitis
    • 5 Clerc
    • 6 McNamee
    • 7 Smid
    • 8 Fibak
    • 9 Taroczy
    • 10 Scanlon
     
  7. Drob

    Drob Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2013
    Messages:
    469
    Those ranking, btw, are simply per Wikipedia. I do not affirm these rankings as precise fact. My question is: assuming the basic accuracy of this information as to who was participating, and any other relevant factors, is the WCT a Major?
     
  8. Drob

    Drob Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2013
    Messages:
    469
    For years subsequent to 1983, I am going to use the draw at the WCT finals to give the strength of the tour.

    Forgive any misspellings or typos or Mac auto-correct. I can only do this in the middle of the night.


    1984 WCT Finals:

    John McEnroe
    Jimmy Connors
    Vitas Gerulaitis
    Kevin Curren
    Bill Scanlon
    Mark Dickson
    Eliot Teltscher
    Henrik Sundstrom
    Thomas Smid
    Tim Mayotte
    Johan Kriek
    Jimmy Arias


    1985 WCT Finals:

    Ivan Lendl
    Jimmy Connors
    Mats Wilander
    Stefan Edberg
    Joakim Nystrom
    Andres Gomez
    Anders Jarryd
    Aaron Krickstein
    Eliot Teltscher
    Henrik Sundstrom


    1986 WCT Finals:

    Boris Becker
    Mats Wilander
    Stefan Edberg
    Yannick Noah
    Brad Gilbert
    Johan Kriek
    Paul Annacone
    Joakim Nystrom
    Thierry Tulasne
     
  9. Drob

    Drob Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2013
    Messages:
    469
    1987 WCT Finals:

    Mats Wilander
    Stefan Edberg
    John McEnroe
    Yannick Noah
    Andres Gomez
    Kevin Curren
    Tim Mayotte
    Miloslav Mecir



    1988 WCT Finals:

    Boris Becker
    Stefan Edberg
    Yannick Noah
    Andres Gomez
    Pat Cash
    Tim Mayotte
    Martin Jaite
    Brad Gilbert


    1989 WCT Finals:

    Ivan Lendl
    Stefan Edberg
    John McEnroe
    Andre Agassi
    Mats Wilander
    Brad Gilbert
    Mikael Pernfors
    Jakob Hlasek


    1989 was the final year of the WCT.
     
  10. Drob

    Drob Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2013
    Messages:
    469

    I agree with some of what you say, but not sure about the diet. Did he change his diet from the vegan approach that had served him well for several years, with which he won most of his Slams and so on - is that what you are saying? I did not know that. I thought he was still on that diet . . . the one he credits with curing his allergies and giving him greater stamina and resistance.

    Parting with Becker was a shame and a mistake. My understanding is that Becker was trying to push Novak to train harder in the second half of 2016 and Novak did not want to, and that was one source of friction. But the elbow thing is a bit of a curiosity. I am not much interested in injury excuses, but the elbow is curious with respect to this rift that Becker talks about, regarding training. The elbow could not have been too bad in mid-2016 if Becker was pushing for more training. Yet, I seem to recall Djokovic favouring the elbow at the 2016 U.S. Open.

    The last time I saw Novak Djokovic, or thought I saw him, was at the O2 in November 2016. After that bad patch, he played real Djoker tennis for four matches, and I thought he was going to win a sixth YEC (and fourth undefeated YEC), end the year in high style, and be crowned undisputed World No. 1 for the fifth time in six years. With the No. 1 ranking on the line, I, like almost everyone else, expected an exciting, hammer-and-tongs final versus Murray, with Djokovic winning. Instead, he lost lamely to Andy, and lost the No. 1. And I have been looking for Новак Ђоковић every since.

    I believe he will return, however briefly, I believe he will return a Slam champ. But I am a dreamer. Your assessment of his game . . . I cannot argue with that. He has to change, and has to change pretty quickly.
     
  11. KG1965

    KG1965 Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2015
    Messages:
    5,332
    What is a major?
    Can a major tournament be a 8-men? :rolleyes:

    In Texas there was a big tournament between the top 8 of a circuit (not the top 8, but only of a circuit...).
    Until many of the top 8 were in the WCT was a big tournament (not major) for example the first 3 editions (Ken, Ken, Smith).
    Since 1974 it is no longer a top tournament because the many top players did not participate in the circuit (Nastase, but above all the top dog .. Connors).
    In the following years it remains a prestigious tournament but from the non-prestigious seeding.
    Post 1978 it is an invitational, with some fantastic final (Mac-Borg 79, Jimbo-Mac 80, Lendl-Mac) ... nothing more than an good invitational.
    The greatness of McEnroe goes from other tournaments, not from Dallas.
    The MSG Masters GP was probably the best tournament of all (after W & USO) but it wasn't a major.:D
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2018
    Dan Lobb, krosero and pc1 like this.
  12. Drob

    Drob Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2013
    Messages:
    469
    With KG1965's comment, apparently at least partly endorsed by two other top posters, is there the germ of, or even emerging, CONSENSUS that the WCT simply was never a Major, irrespective of year? Does anyone have a different view?

    I do not propose to oppose this worthy trio. Yet, I am still trying to figure it out, a little bit. If you say it never was Major-worthy, okay. If you say 1971-72 only, or something like this, It seems like the WCT as major-equivalent goes on several years longer, but at some point it stops.

    Food for thought.

    Steve Flink: "[WCT Finals] had become one of the five top tournaments in tennis". The Greatest Matches of the Twentieth Century, p. 117.

    Karoly Mazak, The Concise History of Tennis, lists the WCT as a Major for all 19 years, 1971-89.

    Peter Rowley:.Ken Rosewall: Twenty Years at the Top: "Prior to the 1972 WCT final Rosewall won the U.S. in 1970, the Australian in 1971, WCT in 1971, and the Australian in 1972. He had not entered the French in 1971 or Forest Hills in 1971 and did not win Wimbledon in 1971. Thus of the five important championships, since and including Forest Hills in 1970, which Rosewall had entered before WCT '72, he had won four." Rowley, p 158. Just self-serving on Ken's part?

    John Newcombe: "The glittering event in the pro calendar in '74 was the WCT finals in Dallas in May, the winner of which would be deemed the best professional player in the world, and therefore the best player in the world, period." Newk, p. 113. Self-serving, because Newk did prevail at the WCT that year? Maybe. In the context of the book it really does not come off that way. Whether plausible or misguided, Newk makes clear he thought himself every bit as justified as world No. 1 in 1974 as Connors (and the two only played one, one-set match the whole year, which Newcombe won). That is what 1975 Australian Open final was all about.

    Rod Laver: "The bigest disappointment of my career came in 1972: another defeat by Rosewall in he WC of T final in May." Laver and Collins, p. 231. Not failure to win Wimbledon in 1970 or '71, or the 1970 U.S. Open, or any other title. This is NOT self-serving. This is an admission of failure at a Major.

    Speaking of Arthur Ashe: "There is only one way to have it be your year in tennis, and that is by winning Major championships, and the WCT is this year's first". See Youtube, 1975 WCT Dallas Tennis World Championship, at 4:12. Then, at 24.52: "So Arthur Ashe, who thought 1975 would be his year has won his first major title." Nice video, Charlton Heston narrator.

    In the following posts I will share some articles indicating WCT has a special significance, that might at least be that of a "near major" - something above the typical M1000.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2018
    pc1 likes this.
  13. Drob

    Drob Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2013
    Messages:
    469
    Sports Illustrated on the 1975 WCT Final


    ****************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
    THIS ASHE DIDN'T CRUMBLE
    AFTER HE LOST THE FIRST SET TO BJORN BORG, IT LOOKED AS IF ARTHUR ASHE WOULD BLOW ANOTHER BIG ONE, BUT HE RALLIED TO WIN THE WCT FINAL
    BY JOE JARES

    May 18, 1975


    The image of Arthur Ashe that many tennis fans have is the personable, articulate UCLA graduate and ex-Army officer with the dynamite serve, the cheetah quickness—and the incredible weakness of choking in a big match. Among the traditional sights in sport is Ashe putting an easy volley into the net on a crucial point. By his record in Lamar Hunt's World Championship of Tennis tournaments this year, Ashe should have been the favorite going into last week's WCT finals in Dallas. Instead, in a poll of 79 WCT pros, Ashe was picked to win on only three ballots.

    So last Sunday in the final match at Moody Coliseum, there was Ashe up against Bjorn Borg, the 18-year-old Swede whose every top-spin forehand is as big news in Scandinavia as a change in the price of herring. A perfect time for masochistic Ashe rooters to see their hero fail them again. This time, though, it was the other guy who wilted. Ashe followed the same pattern he had established earlier in the week in matches with Mark Cox and John Alexander, losing the first set and fighting back to win. Against Borg the score was 3-6, 6-4, 6-4, 6-0, and Ashe left Texas with the $50,000 first prize.

    After the match Ashe said he had been told by a Spanish-Swedish gypsy fortuneteller in Stockholm last month that he would soon come into a lot of money, that something would soon happen to make him cry a lot and that he was soon going to have a child.

    "So far things have gone just as she said," said Ashe, "but I don't even have a steady girl friend!"

    Ashe had the money, all right, and he did shed a few tears when he stood at the podium.
    On top of the $50,000, the winner's jackpot included the use of a new car for a year, a ring featuring a diamond tennis court, a $1,200 Swiss wristwatch as thin as a coin (the seven other contestants received similar watches), a $1,000 wardrobe and for his mother or girl friend a bracelet to match the ring. The runner-up booty was a trifling $20,000.

    In addition, early in the week Ashe received a unique trophy. This year Haggar slacks put up $33,333.33 for the WCT player who earned the most points in the tournaments leading to Dallas. Ashe was the winner, with 760, some 60 points more than Rod Laver amassed. However, instead of a routine check, Haggar and WCT commissioned a Dallas jeweler to make a solid-gold tennis ball that was worth precisely $33,333.33 on the day it was completed.

    "I like it so much that I'm going to have it bronzed," said Ashe to Lamar Hunt.

    Actually, he plans to put it in a vault, where it will remain regardless of how high the price of gold zooms. He may take it out occasionally to fondle, much as Scrooge McDuck joyfully wallows in his money bin. Ashe will have a cheap replica made for display.

    All in all it was a fairly classy week, what with the players driving around in official tournament Cadillacs and the pretty Courtmates (almost all of them SMU coeds) ushering for the matches, then dancing the nights away in the hospitality room of the Ramada Inn Central. About the only rough moments were when Lew Hoad almost got in a fight with a British newspaperman at a party and when Harold Solomon had $1,000 worth of equipment stolen while he was practicing. All but his WCT warmup jacket was returned the next day with a note saying, "I am not a thief, just a souvenir hunter."

    As often happens in tennis, the best match wasn't the final but Borg versus Laver in the Friday night semis. Laver, twice Borg's age at 36, was in the WCT "exceptional eight" for the fifth straight year and was a clear favorite. He had a 30-5 record in the Blue Group, set a WCT record by winning 23 matches in a row and won four straight events: La Costa, Sao Paolo, Caracas and Orlando. In the poll of pros, 57 picked Rocket Rod to win at Dallas. All but five picked him to reach the final.

    Even more clearly he was everyone's sentimental choice. Laver has won just about everything worth winning, including two Grand Slams, en route to becoming the sport's first millionaire. But he has never won the WCT championship, although he came painfully close with a fifth-set tie breaker in the 1972 final.


    "Sentimentally, I'm with Rod Laver," said Don Budge, who was at courtside. "If the Rocket's on his game, he will win."

    The feeling among some of the press and public was that if Laver failed to win this time, there would be an embarrassingly empty space in his trophy case at home in Corona del Mar, Calif. and a permanent bruise on his ego. There was some speculation that a suicide leap from the top of the 50-story First National Bank Building was not entirely out of the question. Laver got a little tired of hearing about it and insisted that it was not that important, and that his life would not be shattered by a loss.

    After Borg had beaten Mexico's Raul Ramirez in the quarters Wednesday night, Laver had a long struggle before beating Solomon, the movable backboard. He was plainly tired in the fifth set, but he had a full day of rest before the semis. As it turned out, rest, polls, sentiment and his steel-cable left wrist were not enough against the iceBorg, who in scientific tests has been proved to have the pulse rate of a corpse.

    Borg-Laver lasted more than four hours, unusual in this tie-breaker era, and had enough drama to fill a Broadway season. Laver was leading two sets to one and, after falling behind 5-2 in the fourth set, broke Borg's serve twice in a row to tie it at 5-5. When he then blasted two straight aces on his own serve, Laver seemed to have the match locked up. Yet instead of submitting quietly, Borg fought back to win that game. Then Laver broke his serve a third straight time in a game that took 17 points to decide. But Borg won the tie breaker to even the score at two sets apiece. It wasn't a tennis match, it was a roller-coaster ride. Laver was too tired to keep up the terrific pace in the fifth set and Borg won his way into the final round 7-6, 3-6, 5-7, 7-6, 6-2

    The match, full of drop shots, lobs, impossibly angled volleys and hard ground strokes hit to within inches of the baselines, backed up Lamar Hunt's claim that WCT had "finally come up with an outstanding surface, the best ever in indoor tennis." The carpet, made by Supreme Court in Rome, Ga., has a rough surface that slows down even hard-hit balls and gives the player without a cannonball serve a fairly good chance.

    In the interview room, Laver gave due credit to Borg's splendid passing shots, griped a bit about line calls and then bade an unmawkish, dry-eyed farewell to WCT.

    "No, I don't think I'll try it again," he said. "Very doubtful. I've had five good shots at it and enjoyed it immensely. It's been a great challenge...I don't go out with any sadness. I've enjoyed playing it all."

    It wasn't exactly Lou Gehrig's farewell speech at Yankee Stadium (for one thing, Laver is playing this week in Las Vegas), but the reporters and assorted hangers-on at the press conference felt they had been in on a semihistoric occasion, maybe like Big Bill Tilden's last appearance at Forest Hills or Jimmy Connors' first obscene gesture. It was nice to have been among the 9,208 people who were there when Bjorn Borg on the way up passed Rod Laver on the way down—but not easily, not unchallenged.

    "For sure it's my finest win," said Borg, the youngest man ever to make Dallas (he lost to John Newcombe in the final last year) and the youngest man ever to win the Italian and French championships.

    Unfortunately, his finest win also drained him emotionally and physically and left him unable to put up a good fight against Ashe as he all but conceded the final games.

    Borg has escaped the Swedish tax bite by moving with his pSarents to Monte Carlo, but there is no way he can escape the nipping of the Swedish press. Ashe, who played in the Green Group with Borg, reported that after Borg had been upset by a lesser-known countryman, a headline in one Swedish newspaper said: IS THIS THE END OF BJORN BORG?

    The truth of the matter, of course, is that the end is not in sight for this tennis phenomenon. And the truth about Arthur Ashe is that he can win the big ones—the U.S. Open in '68, the Australian in '70, three Davis Cups and now the rich WCT singles. Sometimes nice guys finish first.


    *****************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
     
    Ivan69 likes this.
  14. Drob

    Drob Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2013
    Messages:
    469
    Sports Illustrated declares Borg best in world after May 1976 WCT Finals triumph. Note, this is before Borg's initial Wimbledon championship.


    IT WAS A LIKE-HATE RELATIONSHIP

    BJORN BORG AND GUILLERMO VILAS ARE THE BEST OF FRIENDS, BUT WHEN THEY MET FOR THE WCT CHAMPIONSHIP IN DALLAS, THEY WERE THE BEST OF ENEMIES. BORG WON IN FOUR SETS TO BECOME THE BEST OF THE BEST
    BY CURRY KIRKPATRICK
    TABLE OF CONTENTS
    X
    May 16, 1976

    Tennis' own counterculture all-stars resumed their traveling headband-and-friendship review deep in the heart of Texas last Sunday, and when the barrage of ground-stroke dust had cleared, the scraggly curled, blue-jeaned teen-ager from Scandinavia had done it to the scraggly curled, blue-jeaned poet from the Argentine one more time.

    That the top-spin twins, Bjorn Borg and Guillermo Vilas, managed to eat meals together, hit practice balls together, hang around hotel lobbies and attend press conferences with each other and reach the deciding match of the sixth annual World Championship of Tennis Finals looking like some new country rock group was understandable enough. But that Borg then saw fit to wind up and blast his way past his friend for the fifth time in six matches in the past year and that Vilas reacted to another rear-kicking with merely a shrug was somewhat amazing. "These beatings not affect our relationship. I am never thinking I cannot win," said Vilas after losing the $50,000 first prize, 1-6, 6-1, 7-5, 6-1.

    If it seems Borg has been making the WCT finals in Dallas since he was six, it probably is because every time he does reach Big D and its blue-bunting hoopla, he slugs his way through to the championship round. Having lost in the finals to John Newcombe in 1974 and Arthur Ashe last May, Borg wasn't about to let this one slip away, not even to a boon companion. "I am pretending Guillermo is somebody else; it is another guy over the net," Borg said.

    After the Teen Angel and the Mild Bull of the Pampas had fought through two sets and two service breaks in the third, it came to Vilas serving at 5-5, 15-40. Their competition is always a fascinating study in strokes and tactics; now, as the ball passed over the net 84 times, one point mirrored the entire match. The players pounded top-spin drives, sliced delicate backhands, ran down lobs, chased drop shots. It was power on power, then soft stuff countering soft stuff. Suddenly Borg rushed the net, and Vilas, momentarily stunned, sliced a forehand down the line, but wide.

    Having gained the key break, Borg served out the set and quickly broke in the fourth, taking advantage of Vilas' fading forehand and a questionable line call. "One ball does not make difference," Vilas said. "Bjorn was too deep on approach, very high balls, no good angles for me."

    At the end one dashing blond right-hander had simply outhit and overpowered one dashing brown-haired lefthander again, but they still were world-ranking best pals.

    "What so strange about this?" Vilas said. "Cannot be friends and tennis players too?"

    Before Borg and Vilas came to grips with their top-spin artillery as well as their friendship, the tournament belonged to Ashe. For about two hours. That's how long it took the spunky, 5'6" moonballer, Harold Solomon, to eliminate Arthur on opening night.

    Ashe had started his brilliant run in WCT play last season and had won 61 of 69 matches during a two-year span, including five tournaments this year. He was the proud owner of two 13-pound solid gold tennis balls as WCT's two-time point leader and he had won the fairly outrageous sum of $218,500 in four months. Yet there were signs that the defending champion was in for trouble.

    He had finished his regular WCT season in Caracas a long four weeks ago. Since then he had played in one challenge match in Hawaii and in the WCT doubles in Kansas City, so he was not tournament sharp. Friends say he did not seem the hungry, eager, new Ashe who had shown up in Dallas last year.

    Indeed, against Solomon, he was the old Ashe we had all come to know and be puzzled by, the tentative, confused, erratic, even lazy Ashe. After losing the first set 7-5 by blowing two late service games in which he led 40-15, the world No. 1 seemed to recover by taking the second 6-3. Then Solomon, who was forced to win his last two tournaments (beating Newcombe, Ilie Nastase and Ken Rosewall among others) just to qualify for this moment, took control.

    He hit double-fisted backhand service returns by the ton—low and skidding away. He made Ashe overanxious with long baseline rallies, and took advantage of the champion's weak drop shots to triumph in cat-and-mouse confrontations at the net. He won 20 of 23 points in one stretch as his opponent missed shots, Ashe later admitted, "a 14-year-old could make. I embarrassed myself." Solomon ran out the match by a shocking 6-1, 6-3.


    In the semifinals against Borg, a man he had never beaten, Solomon didn't have it. Giving away five inches, 30 pounds and half the speed of sound on groundstrokes to the Swede, he battled him through a service-break-marred first set, losing 7-5. But he was punished in the second set 6-0—he won only five points—and in the final set 6-3.

    "I'm reaching up all the time to get his top spin; he exhausts me," Solomon said. "The kid is so much stronger than I am. Just look at him. I don't think I'll be ready to beat Borg for at least two years."

    By that time Borg's right arm will be shriveled like a Swedish meatball and embalmed in formaldehyde, so hard does he whack everything that approaches, so often does he compete when stray exhibition cash is on the line. A lot of people are beginning to wonder if Borg is being burned out and sabotaged by his own schedule makers. The Teen Angel is coached by Lennart Bergelin, but he is managed by Mark McCormack, whose people seem to be under the impression that a day off will turn their prince into a frog. Last year Borg played almost 10 full months, including 12 singles victories leading to the Swedish Davis Cup triumph. The week before the WCT finals his itinerary resembled a campaign schedule in the Stop Jimmy Carter movement.

    Borg literally played his way halfway around the world to Dallas: Wednesday, challenge match in Copenhagen; Friday, exhibition in New Jersey; Saturday, exhibition in Chicago; Sunday, exhibition in Oklahoma City. After Dallas, Borg was to play exhibitions in Kalamazoo, Mich. and Durham, N.C. before flying to Hawaii, Germany, France and oblivion

    "I am not like all these exhibitions," said Bergelin. "I cannot control. Bjorn have to slow down. This is too much stupid. All time I am seeing him, he look more or less half dead."

    Meanwhile in the other half of the draw, Vilas, 23, was alternately pounding backhand drives and lofting tantalizing lobs in impressive destructions of Bob Lutz and Dick Stockton. The latter had upset Mexico's Raul Ramirez, but he was quickly dispatched to his suburban Dallas home in straight sets by the perplexing variety of Vilas' shots. "It was a matter of whether he screeched the ball by me or I lunged at it," said Stockton. "Vilas can hit three different directions off one motion. It got to be a guessing game."

    Lutz, who won the first set 7-5 before succumbing 6-1, 6-1, 6-2 to Vilas, was more graphic about the effects of his opponent's relentless heavy ammunition. "I got cold," he says. "My ears started popping. The rubber came off my shoes. I got a cramp in my leg. My contact lens started shooting around in my eye. I was falling apart."

    Of all international court eminences, perhaps the least is known about the swashbuckling Vilas. In the two years it took him to streak to the top, he went through a mystical stage, quoting Krishnamurti, the Indian philosopher, and Pablo Neruda, the Chilean poet, as well as doing some writing of his own. Entitled 125, it is a volume of poetry, short stories and the like. It sold out its first two printings of 20,000 copies, in Argentina.

    "Poetry used to give me peace of mind on court," Vilas says. "But sometimes not. Now I am leaving poetry aside to concentrate on tennis."

    Until both men reached the finals, it was not generally known how close Vilas and Borg had become. In fact they had been friends for a long time. "Our friendship go back five years to when he a star and I not even winning," says Vilas. "Sure, sometimes I hate him on court, but we are never enemies."

    As last week's events in Dallas demonstrated, with stars like these, who needs enemies?
     
    Ivan69 likes this.
  15. Drob

    Drob Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2013
    Messages:
    469
    Some here disdain Wikipedia. Some here helped write the Wikipedia tennis articles. Typically for modern players, the main Wiki article has a column highlighting the major achievements of the player. To wit, Bjorn Borg, where you will notice the mention of the WCT along w the traditional majors and the YEC:


    *****************************************************************************************

    Björn Borg



    Borg in June 1987

    Full name Björn Rune Borg

    Country (sports) Sweden

    Residence Monte Carlo, Monaco

    Born 6 June 1956 (age 62)

    Stockholm, Sweden

    Height 1.80 m (5 ft 11 in)

    Turned pro 1973 (amateur tour from 1971)

    Retired 1983

    Plays Right-handed (two-handed backhand)

    Coach Lennart Bergelin (1971–1983)

    Ron Thatcher (1991–1993)

    Prize money US$ 3,655,751

    Int. Tennis HoF 1987 (member page)

    Singles

    Career record 639–130 (83.09%)

    Career titles 64

    Highest ranking No. 1 (23 August 1977)

    Grand Slam Singles results

    Australian Open 3R (1974)

    French Open W (1974, 1975, 1978, 1979, 1980, 1981)

    Wimbledon W (1976, 1977, 1978, 1979, 1980)

    US Open F (1976, 1978, 1980, 1981)

    Other tournaments

    Tour Finals W (1979, 1980)

    WCT Finals W (1976)

    Doubles

    Career record 86–81 (51.2%)

    Career titles 4

    Grand Slam Doubles results

    Australian Open 3R (1973)

    French Open SF (1974, 1975)

    Wimbledon 3R (1976)

    US Open 3R (1975)

    Team competitions

    Davis Cup W (1975)




    In the text, WCT prominently mentioned:



    1975 – Retained French Open title[edit]

    In early 1975, Borg defeated Rod Laver, then 36 years old, in a semifinal of the World Championship Tennis (WCT) finals in Dallas, Texas, in five sets. Borg subsequently lost to Arthur Ashe in the final. Borg retained his French Open title in 1975, beating Guillermo Vilas in the final in straight sets.[17] Borg then reached the Wimbledon quarterfinals, where he lost to eventual champion Ashe. Borg did not lose another match at Wimbledon until 1981. Borg won two singles and one doubles rubber in the 1975 Davis Cup final, as Sweden beat Czechoslovakia 3–2. With these singles wins, Borg had won 19 consecutive Davis Cup singles rubbers since 1973. That was already a record at the time. However, Borg never lost another Davis Cup singles rubber, and, by the end of his career, he had stretched that winning streak to 33.[18]


    1976 – First Wimbledon title[edit]

    In early 1976, Borg won the World Championship Tennis year-end WCT Finals in Dallas, Texas, with a four-set victory over Guillermo Vilas in the final. At the 1976 French Open, Borg lost to the Italian Adriano Panatta, who remains the only player to defeat Borg at this tournament. Panatta did it twice: in the fourth round in 1973, and in the 1976 quarterfinals. Borg won Wimbledon in 1976 without losing a set, defeating the favored Ilie Năstase in the final. Borg became the youngest male Wimbledon champion of the modern era at 20 years and 1 month (a record subsequently broken by Boris Becker, who won Wimbledon aged 17 in 1985). It would be the last time Borg played Wimbledon as an underdog. Năstase later exclaimed, "We're playing tennis, he's [Borg] playing something else." Borg also reached the final of the 1976 US Open, which was then being played on clay courts. Borg lost in four sets to world no. 1 Jimmy Connors.


    *****************************************************************************************
     
  16. Drob

    Drob Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2013
    Messages:
    469
    1979 - McEnroe's Performance at WCT said to herald he is becoming the equal of Borg and Connors. That must be a pretty bloody big tournament to take on such significance in the eyes of Sports Illustrated. Although the article also opines that the WCT Finals "have fallen on hard times." I have to divide this in half because of the 10,000 character gatekeeper has decided. Here is the SI in two post:




    JUNIOR JOLTS HIS ELDERS
    PLAYING SUPERBLY, JOHN MCENROE TOOK ON THE WORLD'S BEST PLAYERS, BJORN BORG AND JIMMY CONNORS, BACK TO BACK AND OVERWHELMED THEM TO WIN THE WCT CHAMPIONSHIP
    BY CURRY KIRK PATRIC


    May 13, 1979


    Waiting For John McEnroe. That play has been running for some time now. Since summer, 1977: TEENAGER REACHES WIMBLEDON SEMIS. Since fall, 1978: KID UPSETS BORG IN SWEDE'S HOMETOWN. Since winter, 1979: JUNIOR STOPS CONNORS ON DEFAULT.

    It was in the warm springtime of Dallas last week that the waiting ended. In two extraordinary matches that should be frozen forever, or at least replayed in every teaching clinic, the 20-year-old McEnroe positively overwhelmed Jimmy Connors and Bjorn Borg back to back to win the WCT finals.

    On Friday night, after McEnroe rid the tournament of his personal demon Connors in straight sets, the loser was sufficiently humiliated to hire a private plane to whisk him out of town before midnight. Then on Sunday afternoon McEnroe took the fight to Borg, ripping apart the green Supreme Court surface with his stiletto service, deftly maneuvering his opponent to every nook and cranny of SMU's Moody Coliseum, ultimately using his deft touch and angled placements to defeat the world champion 7-5, 4-6, 6-2, 7-6.

    Through the first 27 games of the final, both McEnroe's and Borg's deliveries were so effective that only two games got to deuce. Then, from 2-2 in the third set McEnroe swept four games, at first slowing the pace with balloon balls to confuse Borg and break him in the sixth game, then warding off two break points to hold serve in the seventh


    "I could see Bjorn was tired, mentally tired," McEnroe said. But the dogged Swede kept throwing aces and serving out love games. Two of those earned Borg a 5-3 lead in the fourth set. At deuce, on McEnroe's serve, Borg was two points from tying the match, but again he couldn't handle Junior's slashing spinners from the service line. A game later at 5-4, Borg aced McEnroe and passed him down the line to come to deuce twice more. But he could come no further. After Borg's backhand approach flew long and a McEnroe backhand drive grazed the line, Junior had the sixth, the last and the most crucial break of the match.

    "I felt slow and always too late," Borg said later. "When you play John you have to be absolutely on top of your game, or you lose immediately."

    Though the tie-break was taut and fiery, Borg's first serve had long since deserted him. When McEnroe kept hauling out his trunkload of shots in the overtime session, Borg must have realized—as Connors had two days before—that McEnroe's immense talent and court sense had brought him to the top much sooner than expected.

    World Championship Tennis has fallen on hard times, what with a curtailed circuit of eight tournaments plus a championship and no live network television contract. But, surprisingly, last week Lamar Hunt and his brown-blazered minions were throwing lavish parties, providing cushy limousines and trotting out fabulous celebrities—Tom Landry, Princess Caroline and old, back-from-the-dead himself, Frankie Avalon. Just as surprising was that Borg, Connors and McEnroe were ready, willing and able to play in the same tournament for the second week in a row.

    Before the first serve had been delivered, however, sure enough Connors informed tournament officials that he had suffered an infected callus on the little finger of his left hand while playing the previous week in Las Vegas, where he lost to Borg in the finals of something called the Alan King Caesars Palace Tennis Classic. Connors' finger got him a day's delay for his first-round match against Gene Mayer, and the McEnroe-John Alexander match was moved up to open the tournament on Tuesday. On cue, the younger of tennis' lefthanded children of churl began to squawk.

    "I thought I was getting two days' rest," McEnroe beefed. "As far as I'm concerned, I'm still playing Wednesday. It's not my fault he's got a blister. I've got things wrong with me, but I'm not going to hope people feel sorry for me. I've got a callus on my hand. I've got blisters on my feet. I'm calling my father. He'll handle it with the WCT people."

    Presumably John P. McEnroe Sr. couldn't handle it: McEnroe played Tuesday, but not before Connors contributed his own obligatory verbal barrage.
     
    Ivan69 likes this.
  17. Drob

    Drob Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2013
    Messages:
    469
    Arriving at the Dallas-Fort Worth airport with his pregnant wife, Patti, but without a bandage on his left hand (uh-oh), Jimbo turned down a photographer's request for a picture of the finger by saying, "If someone had a hernia, would you take a picture of that?" Thinking fast, the photographer instead snapped a picture of Patti, which he correctly figured beat fingers and hernias combined.


    "This is a corn," Connors announced. "I've had it for a long time. I'm playing here because I have a commitment." Later, Jimbo defined the difference in the way he and McEnroe expressed displeasure. "If you're going to get off, get off," he said. "And do it like a man, don't back off. McEnroe's young and has a way to go before he's done what I've done. He's won some titles and is now expected to win. Let's see what he does with all this pressure."

    What McEnroe did was sweep past Alexander in straight sets. Meanwhile Mayer stole a tie-breaker from Connors before losing 6-7, 6-1, 6-4, 6-1. "He was the old Jimbo, putting everything away," Mayer said. "I don't think McEnroe is mentally ready for him."

    He thought wrong. Suddenly in their eighth meeting, with Connors up 6-1, it was Jimbo who seemed ill-prepared for McEnroe. Right away in the second game, Junior broke Connors' serve at 30, bringing him into the net and forcing him to scoop a forehand deep, then a volley wide. In the fourth game, McEnroe broke at 15 with a forehand pass and an offensive lob that trapped Connors at mid-court. On serve, McEnroe was devastating, both when slicing his huge left-handed deliveries into the sideline seats or nailing flat liners down the middle.

    McEnroe closed out the first set 6-1, with three service winners and an amazing, lunging pickup get, which he lobbed delicately over the thoroughly perplexed Connors' head. "I had a game plan against him," McEnroe said later. "For the first time I felt totally in control.
    Which meant that McEnroe alternately kept blasting and feathering the ball deep, blunting Connors' aggressive game so that he himself could attack. The Mac attack, as it were, grew from his effectiveness on serve. "I don't think I've ever served better," McEnroe said, and he may have been right: Connors got only 25 points in McEnroe's 14 service games.

    In the eighth game of the second set, Connors finally made a move on a service break to 4 all, but McEnroe broke back on a purely invented backhand retrieve from the baseline of what seemed a certain winning lob. Connors appeared so shocked that McEnroe was able to get the ball, much less flip it back at such a sharp angle, that he swung wildly, knocking the riposte way out of bounds. The same thing happened in the next game, on set point, when McEnroe caught up with another Connors lob, lofted it back and watched as Jimbo's answering overhead flew long.

    In the third set only the players' frequent yammering against the chair umpire prolonged the outcome. McEnroe would scream and stall. Then Connors would mimic him, stalling himself or screaming between points. "In or out? You're doing a lousy job," Connors yelled at the chair.

    "You going to let this keep up?" McEnroe yelled at the chair.

    "Call your daddy," a heckler kept shouting at McEnroe.

    But Junior didn't need help. On a last gasp Connors led 4-3 with two break points in the eighth game. Quickly McEnroe smacked another dynamite serve off Jimbo's racket. Then, during a marvelous series of wicked counterpunching by both men, at least twice McEnroe appeared out of the second breaker, and thus the game.

    But he wasn't. At the end of the tenuous point McEnroe drilled an angled backhand and Connors dived for it, but late; the game was saved. McEnroe won 10 of the next 11 points—the total spread ended up 98-69—all three remaining games and the match, 6-1, 6-4, 6-4.

    "Jimmy is an angry young man. He will not talk to the press," WCT spokesman Rod Humphries said. "He asked Patti, 'Who's got the keys?' He has left the building. Maybe the city."

    "How about the country?" someone said.

    While Connors was en route back to the drawing board, Borg was using the other semifinal to dissect Vitas Gerulaitis. After the two had walloped Geoff Masters and Brian Gottfried, respectively, it seemed that Gerulaitis' newly fashioned, open-stance serve might turn their customary track meet his way. But for the 12th straight time it was not to be, Borg winning 7-5, 7-6, 2-6, 6-2 in their best match since their classic semifinal at the 1977 Centenary Wimbledon.

    Borg was asked if he was surprised that McEnroe would be waiting for him on Sunday instead of Connors.

    "No," said Borg, who had split four matches with his upstart rival. "He has all the shots. You have to be quick in the legs to play against this guy and his serve. It all depends on him."


    It all depends on him. If that's not acknowledgment of how far tennis' bold new prince has come, nothing is. McEnroe had blown eight match points in a loss to Borg earlier this year in Richmond, but when he had—as the pros say—the match on his racket in Dallas, he crushed an ace down the middle to win the tie-break.

    "McEnroe is the equal of anyone I've ever played," John Alexander said last week. "I've played them all now, and he's the toughest."

    "There is only one true genius in the game, and his name is Junior," said Sandy Mayer.

    Who's got the keys? John McEnroe has got the keys.
     
    Ivan69 likes this.
  18. Drob

    Drob Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2013
    Messages:
    469
    Some of you take prize money as the main standard by which to judge a tournament's worth, and some put it very high on the list of factors, lots of weight. The 1982 WCT Finals paid US $150,000 to the champion. In comparison, in 1982. Wimbledon paid equivalent of approx. US $73,000, that is to say, 41,600 British pounds x 1.74 xchng rate as of July 1, 1982. Pretty big stuff this WCT Finals. Here is The Washington Post on the 1982 final:


    Lendl Defeats McEnroe in WCT Final




    April 27, 1982

    Second-ranked Ivan Lendl, refusing to be unnerved by John McEnroe's temper tantrums, defeated the American for the fourth straight time, 6-2, 3-6, 6-3, 6-3, tonight for the World Championship of Tennis title and the $150,000 first prize.

    It took three hours for Lendl, the most successful player in the world this year, to defeat McEnroe, top-ranked and defending champion. Lendl, 22, thus increased his earnings since Jan. 1 to $948,250; he has won 80 of his last 82 matches.

    Only two men, McEnroe and Bjorn Borg, have ever won more than $1 million on the tennis court in a single year. Lendl is almost certain to surpass that figure before the year is half over.

    "The more times you can beat a player like John the more you feel like a champion," said Lendl.

    Lendl leads McEnroe, 4-2, in career matches. Tonight, he served aggressively and had 13 aces.

    "Ivan is obviously a devastating player," McEnroe said. "He has shown that this year by dominating the circuit. He played like a dominating player tonight and he deserved to win. Maybe next time I will play better."

    The beginning of the end came for McEnroe in the third game of the fourth set, a give-and-take contest that went to deuce eight times before Lendl broke service with a backhand winner. McEnroe never recovered.

    The other key came in the eighth game of the third set, when Lendl broke service.

    After splitting the opening two sets, the players held serve through the first seven games of the third. But McEnroe blew a 40-15 lead in the eighth game and at break point Lendl made a great save of a ball along the sideline. McEnroe eventually hit the ball into the net to give the game to
    the Czech.

    McEnroe, 23, failed in his bid to become the first player to win the WCT Finals three times, but not before he tried every trick he knew.

    McEnroe, troubled by an erratic first serve, tried to rattle Lendl with gamesmanship in the first set.

    Picking on linesman Mickey Martin after a call, McEnroe told referee Zeno Pfau he wouldn't play until Martin was removed.

    McEnroe told Pfau: "He (Martin) made a mistake."

    Pfau diplomatically placed Martin in another position.

    McEnroe played on, but not without taking extra time to towel off, making Lendl wait. McEnroe also took issue with a fan in a courtside seat.

    Lendl broke McEnroe in the third and seventh games with outstanding backhand winners to win that set.
    Although the approximately 15,000 fans in Reunion Arena booed McEnroe in the first set, they forgave his early tantrum and rallied to his side when he broke Lendl's service for the first time in the second game of the second set. McEnroe, who last beat Lendl in the quarterfinals of the 1980 U.S. Open, ended the set with back-to-back aces.

    The third set point ended with McEnroe crashing into a row of yellow carnations at the southeast end of the court as Lendl held service.
     
    Ivan69 likes this.
  19. Drob

    Drob Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2013
    Messages:
    469
    Even as it was coming to an end, the event got quasi-Major like coverage, and Sports Illustrated said that McEnroe's victory might well mean he was getting back on track for something like a Wimbledon. In the event, Mac did go on to make the Wimbledon semis that year, and finish fourth in the ATP computer rankings for the year. So, the WCT Finals remained a kind of big deal through 1989. The article does express disappointment at the play of Edberg and Wilander.


    Here is the Sports Illustrated story:


    A NEW MAC ATTACK
    REJUVENATED JOHN MCENROE OUTLASTED IVAN LENDL, AMONG OTHERS, AT THE WCT FINALS
    BY CURRY KIRKPATRICK

    March 13, 1989


    HE'S BAAA-AAAACK....

    The little girl in Poltergeist II has nothing on men's tennis if last week's Buick WCT Finals in Dallas is an accurate harbinger. While most of the game's marquee players treated the eight-man tournament as just another layover on their tour of the world's banks, who should slip in to win the title but old Fire Eyes himself, John McEnroe.

    No one could recall which number this was in the roll call of McEnroe comebacks, but the fact that he shook off personal demons past, present and future—this time in reverse chronological order: Andre Agassi (page 64), Ivan Lendl and Brad Gilbert—to win his fifth WCT Finals crown made the victory special. "Number six [Mac's computer ranking] is not where I want to be, but I'm happy with the progress," said the 30-year-old McEnroe after whipping Gilbert 6-3, 6-3, 7-6 in the championship match. "This is as good as I've played since the birth of my children." Sean is 1½, and Kevin is not quite three.

    Aside from Mac's performance, did Dallas get as good as tennis's best could give? Boris Becker, the hottest player on the circuit, pulled out at the last minute with the flu. Jimmy Connors was slated to replace Becker, but he never showed. Next in line were Henri Leconte and Thomas Muster, and they, too, took a pass. That left Gilbert, who promptly disposed of Wimbledon champion Stefan Edberg in straight sets. Thanks for the memories, Stef. Hey, no problem. Mats Wilander, last year's Australian, French and U.S. Open champ, would uphold Sweden's reputation. Boink. Wilander lost his opening match to Mikael Pernfors, who couldn't uphold Sweden's reputation, either. Were the big guys psyched for Dallas, or what?


    As for Agassi, he was leading McEnroe 6-4, 0-3 when he abruptly defaulted, blaming a muscle pull in his thigh that he had suffered the previous week in Philadelphia. Agassi hadn't mentioned the injury in Philly, and no one in Dallas, McEnroe included, detected a limp. "Unbelievable," said Mac. "This wouldn't have happened 10 years ago. I would have liked to kick his rear end."

    Speaking of butt-bootings, one of last week's semis pitted McEnroe against Lendl, who had beaten McEnroe three straight times since Mac took his sabbatical in 1986. But after McEnroe swept the last four points of the second-set tiebreaker and broke Lendl twice in the third set to go ahead 6-7, 7-6, 6-2, the Reunion Arena crowd of 16,123 sounded as if Adrian Dantley was down there punching out Mark Aguirre.

    Later, with McEnroe serving at 4-4, 30-40 in the fourth set, Lendl drew a code violation for arguing with umpire Gerry Armstrong, who docked Lendl a point for using the F word. "What is that?" Lendl screamed. "Whisper it in my ear." When duly informed, Lendl insisted he had said no such thing, sat down and refused to play, whereupon Armstrong hit him with a game penalty: 5-4 McEnroe. Audio replays appeared to vindicate Lendl; the courtside microphone caught Lendl shouting to a lines-woman, "It's a foot out, you stupid lady," in reference to a McEnroe serve. So much for the F word. McEnroe went on to win the set 7-5 and, after four hours on court, ran to the sideline to kiss his wife, Tatum O'Neal. The time was 11:40 p.m.

    McEnroe got only four hours of sleep before he faced Gilbert, but the match was without incident. Vengeance might have been a factor. McEnroe's only loss to Gilbert in 11 matches had come at the 1985 Masters, and that defeat had driven him from the sport. "I'm not going to play tennis if I lose to jerks like that," said McEnroe after that loss. And he didn't—for six months.

    Fast forward to 1989. Mac is 15-2, having lost only to Lendl at the Australian Open and to Becker in Milan. The week before Dallas he beat No. 9 Jakob Hlasek to win a tournament in Lyon. Is Mac really all the way back? In discussing his play over the last couple of years, he said on Saturday, "I never got it going. I got suspended, had some injuries, just got burned out. At one point I had one child and was expecting another. There's no way you can prepare for that. It took time to feel confident, that this is what I want to do for a living."

    Before Dallas there was some doubt about that. However, last week McEnroe confirmed that family life has contributed to his new enthusiasm. "Kevin's awake," said Tatum one day, interrupting Mac at a press conference.

    Dad leaned into the microphone. "Kevin's awake," he said and followed Tatum out the door. Welcome back, all you Macs. Tennis just woke up as well.
     
    Ivan69 likes this.
  20. Drob

    Drob Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2013
    Messages:
    469
    Finally, an interesting contemporary article from The New York Times, wherein a case is made that McEnroe was as good indoors as anyone, using as one justification, his 5 WCT titles. Here is the article, from last year's ATP World Tour Finals.



    ATP FINALS

    Indoors, Who Is the Greatest Men’s Tennis Player?

    By Christopher Clarey

    • Nov. 11, 2017

    Indoor tennis might seem a modern invention, a way to keep raking in the revenue when the weather turns chilly. But the ancestor of today’s game was actually played exclusively indoors.

    Known now as real tennis, it was a diversion for royalty and their minions in France, England and elsewhere during the Renaissance and beyond. Fewer than 50 of the asymmetric courts with their sloping internal roofs still exist.

    It is tough to know who was truly the best in those days: Presumably, they let the kings rule. But there is no shortage of evidence in the digital age, and with the world’s most prestigious indoor men’s tournament, the ATP Finals, set to begin on Sunday in London’s O2 Arena, it is worth a ponder.

    Who is the greatest of all time indoors? Let’s call him the GOATI, which sounds vaguely Swiss and thus brings to mind Roger Federer, not a bad candidate as it turns out.

    Federer, at No. 2 after a triumphant season, has won the singles title at the year-end championships a record six times, although only the last four were played indoors. He won his first two on outdoor courts in 2003 and 2004 in Houston, where the event had been wooed briefly away from Shanghai.

    But the year-end championship has been back under cover since 2005.

    Federer, best able to express his manifold gifts on faster surfaces, has nonetheless been eclipsed at the O2 Arena by Novak Djokovic, who won four straight titles from 2012 to 2015, beating Federer in two of those finals in straight sets.

    Djokovic is an underrated player indoors but not an underrated player on hard courts, which are now the indoor surface of choice. But even if Djokovic leads Federer, 5-4, in indoor matches, Federer still holds the overall edge. His career indoor record of 269-64 and winning percentage of 80.8 are superior to Djokovic, who is at 135-37 (78.5 percent).

    Andy Murray, born a week before Djokovic, has exactly the same career indoor record of 135-37 but there will be no separating them next week.

    Neither has qualified in large part because neither has played an official match since Wimbledon, although Murray at least played and lost an exhibition against Federer in Scotland on Tuesday (Djokovic has still not returned to full-blown practice).

    Those career records are not quite complete, however, because they do not include indoor matches played at the Grand Slam tournaments. All of the slams, except the French Open, now have stadiums with retractable roofs that can be closed in inclement weather.

    But with or without the Grand Slam factor, the career indoor records from this era do not quite match up with those of the best players earlier in the Open era like John McEnroe and Ivan Lendl. They played more often indoors then. There were 19 indoor events in the first year of the ATP Tour in 1990. That was down to 15 this year. Consider that Jimmy Connors won 53 career indoor titles and McEnroe won 52. Federer has won 23, Djokovic just 12.

    The playing conditions then were also generally much quicker.

    “Indoor tennis was totally different,” said Brad Gilbert, a coach and ESPN analyst whose playing career lasted from 1982 to 1995. “I do think the slower indoor courts today give everybody more of a chance. When you were playing Mac and Lendl on carpet and Supreme, it was good night Irene. Those are courts that really favor you if you have a dominant shot but you also needed to be able to return so guys like Mac or Lendl who both served really well and put returns in play were deadly.”

    Federer, with his precise serve and knack for blocking huge serves back into play, presumably would have been a health hazard in that era, too.

    Lendl was 341-70: a winning percentage of 83, which ranks second in the Open era indoors. McEnroe was 419-72: a winning percentage of 85.3, which ranks first by a significant margin, and he won five WCT Finals, which were the prestigious culmination of the WCT circuit, a rival of the traditional tour.


    The only other men with an Open era winning percentage over 80 percent indoors in singles are Connors at 82 percent (469-103), Federer and Bjorn Borg at 80.6 percent (216-52).

    Boris Becker, a tremendous indoor player, is next and close at 79.8 percent (297-75). And then there is Pete Sampras, whose five-set victory over Becker in Hanover, Germany, in the 1996 ATP final is the best indoor match this correspondent has seen in person. Sampras was 213-61 (77.7 percent) and won five year-end championships.

    As in the GOAT debate, it is easier to compare and contrast indoor play in the Open era, when the major events were open to all instead of only to amateurs. But those who turned professional before 1968 had ample opportunity to play indoors. As they barnstormed, they often played in a new city each night, traveling with a canvas court that could be rolled out and then rolled up and moved to the next venue.

    “They could put it down on wood or cement, they even put it on ice a few times,” Rod Laver said in an interview. “In Madison Square Garden, when hockey season was on, they’d roll it out the day before, and your ankles were pretty much frozen by the time you came off court.”

    They played on other surfaces, too, including polished gymnasium floors (talk about quick).

    “Jack Kramer on quick courts indoors was the best of the pre-Open era players in my view,” said Steve Flink, a tennis historian and author of “The Greatest Tennis Matches of All Time”. “From the time Kramer turned pro at the end of ’47, he dominated Bobby Riggs, Pancho Gonzales, Frank Sedgman and all of his pro rivals on those head-to-head tours. But Gonzales should also be on the list. Like Jack, he was an all-out serve-and-volleyer who excelled under a roof.”

    Serve-and-volley no longer rules. Neither do the French kings, but indoor tennis excellence survives. Tune in to London for proof.
     
  21. KG1965

    KG1965 Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2015
    Messages:
    5,332
    Drob you have opened a very interesting debate (one of the few interesting debates in recent times ....).

    In the tennis of the last 20 years there are no anomalies, everything is clear, the subdivision is easy (slam, YEC, Master1000), the only questionable aspect is if
    - 1 slam = 2 Masters (as for ATP) or
    - 1 slam = 10 Masters because the Masters count little, or
    - if only the slams count.

    But in other times there have been so many anomalies.

    One of the biggest anomalies (perhaps the biggest was the WCT).

    The WCT was born as a Tour with many tournaments, is very rich and is very relevant: play almost all the best in 1970 (although some top players do not participate .. Smith .. Nastase ...).
    The subdivisions were many and only the US Open had all the contenders.
    Promotion and advertising, wealth make the WCT Tour become predominant in the spring season (January-May).
    Only in 1971 was a Finals invented in Dallas (Moody Coliseum).
    In Dallas a relevant tournament is held, it is indisputable (the most relevant for the americans).
    For this reason the most significant victory of Rosewall are the two triumphs of Dallas.;)
    For this reason the worst defeats for Laver are the two defeats in Dallas.:(
    Nobody talked about the Pro tournaments, everyone knew that the Amateurs slam won them the worst, few were interested to open slams.
    Laver the top dog was little known despite the 2 GS.:mad:

    Dallas gave popularity, had a format (people, cars, money, media) that gave fame.

    Afterwards he lost enamel but for several years he was recognized as a prestigious title by the media and by the players themselves.

    It's complicated to give an overall opinion.

    IMHO
    - in the period 1971-1973 it was worth money-popularity-prestige W & USO, but it is not a major (like all the Finals) .... 1500 points?
    - since 1974 the parable is clear (even if the 1979 edition is quite good and some Mac-Connors-Lendl finals are historically relevant) .... 1000 points?

    I personally attribute the points of a Master 1000, with the exception of the 1971-73 editions to which I attribute 1500 or 1750.

    But it is my opinion, if other posters think otherwise for me is ok, it is a very unusual topic that lends itself to various interpretations.

    An "escamotage" rather than I do not conceive / implement is just that
    as the 70s and 80s top dogs did not take part in the 4 slams we grant them as major Dallas or Masters GP.
    It does not work like this.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018 at 11:30 AM
    Ivan69 likes this.
  22. forzamilan90

    forzamilan90 Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2010
    Messages:
    5,918
    Hey look at that, Ken Rosewall doing an interview and presenting the trophy at the end of the French Open. Not too often I see him in the limelight in recent years, that would certainly bring more attention to his name and make people more away of who he was.
     
    Phoenix1983, KG1965 and pc1 like this.
  23. KG1965

    KG1965 Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2015
    Messages:
    5,332
    In my home Rafa is contender.
    In the wake of Fedr, Laver, Tilden and Pancho.
    Rosewall delivered to Rafa the 5th greatest all time trophy.
     
    pc1 likes this.
  24. NatF

    NatF Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    May 10, 2012
    Messages:
    32,474
    Location:
    Cretaceous
    Rosewall is the GOAT of burns, called Thiem's performance disappointing right in front of him :D
     
    I get cramps, Phoenix1983 and pc1 like this.
  25. thrust

    thrust Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2016
    Messages:
    2,024
    Perhaps Ken meant to say disappointing for Thiem? I don't think he meant to criticize Thiem or hurt his feelings. I don't think Ken is comfortable speaking publicly, especially answering questions. Unfortunately, however, Thiem was not at his best today, especially after the first set. He needs a new coach and tactics in order to become a slam winner, especially against a Nadal, Federer or Djokovic.
     
  26. Phoenix1983

    Phoenix1983 Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2012
    Messages:
    6,272
    I have Nadal as 3rd greatest after Federer and Laver.
     
    I get cramps and KG1965 like this.
  27. KG1965

    KG1965 Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2015
    Messages:
    5,332
    I think that Bill and Pancho have been more dominant than Rafa but I admit to having obvious difficulties to compare the two americans with the recent champions.
    Basically I have no weapons to not attribute to Nadal the 3rd place.
     
    I get cramps, pc1 and Phoenix1983 like this.
  28. thrust

    thrust Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2016
    Messages:
    2,024
    Before this FO, Tennisbase had Nadal 4th behind Rosewall. Most likely they will now have Nadal at #3 and Ken at #4
     
    I get cramps, pc1 and Phoenix1983 like this.
  29. Phoenix1983

    Phoenix1983 Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2012
    Messages:
    6,272
    Nadal is greater than Rosewall for sure.
     
    pc1 likes this.
  30. thrust

    thrust Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2016
    Messages:
    2,024
    On clay, for sure, but not on grass or indoor surfaces. As you know Ken could not compete at Wimbledon age 22-33, and one or two years in the early seventies, yet managed to reach the finals at 39 losing to a great much younger player. Still, on clay, Ken won 2 official slams, one at 18 the other at 33 and 4 pro slams at RG where he was also barred from playing for 11 years
     
    Dan Lobb likes this.
  31. Drob

    Drob Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2013
    Messages:
    469

    Third all-time, overall, all-round, globally?
     
  32. Dan Lobb

    Dan Lobb Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2011
    Messages:
    7,834
    Nadal is not great except on clay, and even there, looking at the highlights of today's final, Nadal runs around his backhand a lot, and relies on TWO hands and modern racquets to make it work for him,

    With consistent racquets technology, I doubt that Nadal would make top fifteen on a grass rating, which is what I look at.
     
    NoMercy likes this.
  33. I get cramps

    I get cramps New User

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2010
    Messages:
    83
    https://twitter.com/rodlaver/status/1005933831851892736
     
  34. Dan Lobb

    Dan Lobb Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2011
    Messages:
    7,834
  35. KG1965

    KG1965 Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2015
    Messages:
    5,332
    [​IMG]
     
    pc1 likes this.
  36. thrust

    thrust Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2016
    Messages:
    2,024
    There is no One ATG. Nadal is a close second to Federer great in the open era, Novak a close third. Pre open era from 1950: Laver, Gonzalez, Rosewall. Pre 1950: Tilden, Budge, Perry-Cochet-Lacoste.
     
  37. paranoidandroid

    paranoidandroid Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2017
    Messages:
    9,393
    Location:
    Anyone but Zverev
    1. Hypothetical aggressive Murray
    2. Federer
    3. Nadal
    4. Sampras
    5. Djokovic
    6. Borg
    7. Laver
    8. McEnroe
    9. Agassi
    10. Lendl/Connors

    @Red Rick
     
  38. urban

    urban Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2005
    Messages:
    4,966
    Looking at Nadal and Rosewall, it seems very difficult, if not impossible to compare those players from 50 years apart, in an adaequate way. But looking at the Nadal achievement alone, it is sensational. 11 wins at RG, in most players minds the hardest to win major, with the highest physical and tactical challenges. Weak era aside, he won it fairly easy against multiple top five players and top clay courters like Thiem, Wawrinka, Delpo, Schwartzman, not to speak of his other clay wins over Zverev, Thiem, and an (off top form) Djokovic, you name them. This is sensational alone. And 19 championships at the two most prolific clay champs, French and Italian, nobody could and would believe this number before (and add the 11 at Monte Carlo, now the third big clay event). Going by the parameters of the 1960s and 1970s, when the Italian was ranked among the top four or top five major events, Nadal would sit on 25 big championships. And don't forget he won the most difficult RG-Wim double already twice and the US champs, the traditional hard court event 3 times. And his career is far from over. He is on his way, to close the only missing number in his career, the year end Nr. 1 position. If he will reach 5 times Nr. 1, he will be in the territory of Connors and Federer and close to Sampras, very much on top of the open era.
     
  39. forzamilan90

    forzamilan90 Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2010
    Messages:
    5,918
    I legit think at this point Nadal has surpassed Sampras, and is top 3 all time (Fed and Laver the top two for me). I hate it, but I can't find a reason not to justify him. Hope Fed can keep winning to keep a lead, but it's very plausible these two rivals are the top two players ever when it's all said and done.
     
  40. Dan Lobb

    Dan Lobb Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2011
    Messages:
    7,834
    Depends on how you rate players....
     
  41. Ivan69

    Ivan69 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 22, 2016
    Messages:
    2,393
    This tournament has its own history. The first session in 1971 was figured out as the delicious desert determining the best WCT players. It had a huge prize money for that time of $100,000, double than the other WCT events. The first prize of $50,000 was 4-5 times more than the other events. The event was hugely advertised and televised with an audience of more than 20 millions. It was really a top event next to TCC and USO. It had the same prestige, expectations and big prize money in 1972 and to a lesser extent in 1973.
    I would say the prestige of the finals went down from 1974 due to money. The prize remained the same (100,000) while the other tournaments like the slams, Tucson, Las Vegas offered more money. Even the Masters' money was higher. So it became a sort of a second class tournament. A big step was made in 1984 when the prize money was raised from $300,000 to $500,000 remaining the same till 1989 but the money was still less than other events.

    So if we are talking about the WCT Finals as a potential major it could be IMO only in the years 1971-1973. After that it is something like a tier 1000 event.
     
    krosero likes this.
  42. Ivan69

    Ivan69 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 22, 2016
    Messages:
    2,393
    Yeah, that's what I am saying about his diet. Years ago his diet was gluten-free only. Since somewhere in 2016 his diet is fully vegan. You can see pictures and videos how Nole looks like in 2014-2015 and how he looks now - bag of bones.

    About Becker you are fully right. Becker pushed Novak to keep practicing hard after RG 16. But then Nole was surprisingly mentally down, started to go to the guru sessions in Spain and started talking always about harmony and love. Becker didn't liked this but Nole didn't cared. The injury is not an excuse. Currently he has no pains. He misses a physics, energy and a motivation for winning.
    Look what is the opinion of a Swiss doctor in diets about Djokovic. It's in German but easy to translate. https://www.facebook.com/hoeslijuerg/posts/1859185757484869

    If Nole continues with this diet and this thinking about harmony and love he has no chances for big tournaments. I could be a pessimist but I don't think he would change something. But let's see.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018 at 7:33 AM
  43. Ivan69

    Ivan69 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 22, 2016
    Messages:
    2,393
    Yeah, very rarely. Wimbledon 67.:(
     
    KG1965 likes this.
  44. Ivan69

    Ivan69 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 22, 2016
    Messages:
    2,393
    No doubt. The players and the public counted WCT finals as one of the top events at that time. It's not accidental that Rod speaks of his loss as the biggest disappointment. The prestige of the event was really huge. But only in the years 71-73.
    I disagree with the words of Newk. Maybe he thought himself the best in 74. But in fact he won only 2 big titles that year - Tucson and finals. Jimmy was the full dominator.
    Ashe might be proud of his '75 finals but the competition was not top.
     
  45. Ivan69

    Ivan69 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 22, 2016
    Messages:
    2,393
    Very good article!
     
  46. Ivan69

    Ivan69 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 22, 2016
    Messages:
    2,393
    Very good!
     
  47. Ivan69

    Ivan69 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 22, 2016
    Messages:
    2,393
    And here is the key. The WCT finals were not "the prestigious culmination of the WCT circuit" during the Mac time. They were just a tournament using the same name and being part of the tour.
     
    KG1965 likes this.
  48. Ivan69

    Ivan69 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 22, 2016
    Messages:
    2,393
    You know that the points for slams and Masters and their ratio differ through the decades - 2:1, 1,5:1 etc. I think this is very important and indicative that the Masters were/are placed very high in the pointing and ranking system. Masters are the second best events after the slam (YE finals are only 1 per year and not so indicative) in a 4 level tournaments' system. Even in the past it was a 5-6 level tournament system. So the value of the second best tournaments can't be questionable.
    I can't see any reason that the ratio slam-Masters would be more than 2:1. All players want to have Masters unlike tier 500 or 250. Slams, Masters and YE are considered the only big titles of a player.
     
    KG1965 likes this.
  49. Ivan69

    Ivan69 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 22, 2016
    Messages:
    2,393
    As usual a wrong expression. Very bad try to affect a great player! Very!
    Rosewall DIDN'T said that Thiem's performance was disappointing. Rosewall said that he hasn't expected that the match will finish in straight sets. And I think many people haven't expected that having in mind Thiem's excellent performance on clay and the previous matches between Nadal and Thiem.
    Thiem played very well technically and tactically but Rafa was incredible.
     
  50. NatF

    NatF Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    May 10, 2012
    Messages:
    32,474
    Location:
    Cretaceous
    I wasn't saying anything bad about Rosewall, your ability to interpret the tone of posts is as bad as ever.

    Thiem did not play well technically or tactically either BTW, one example is his insistence on going for big first serves and putting in a low percentage. Nadal was patchy in the first set and when Thiem's level dropped his confidence rose. Not a very good match.
     
    Dan Lobb likes this.

Share This Page