Yes because in taking in account the context in the era they played agassi have it tougher than lendl or mcenroe same as murrayAre those in order?
Agassi above Lendl or even McEnroe is interesting.
Murray above Wilander and Becker is even more interesting.
Agassi did not have it tougher. Great myth perpetuated by those under 40.Yes because in taking in account the context in the era they played agassi have it tougher than lendl or mcenroe same as murray
Lendl debatable, Agassi had a most difficult era than mcenroe by way much and was objectively more competitiveAgassi did not have it tougher. Great myth perpetuated by those under 40.
What? No Laver?1) Djokovic
2) Federer
3) Nadal
4) Sampras
5) Borg
6) Lendl
7) Connors
8) McEnroe
9) Agassi
10) Wilander
11) Becker
12) Edberg
13) Murray
14) Courier
15) Newcombe
He’d definitely be in my list.What? No Laver?
Yes because in taking in account the context in the era they played agassi have it tougher than lendl or mcenroe same as murray
1) Djokovic
2) Federer
3) Nadal
4) Sampras
5) Borg
6) Laver
7) Connors
8) Lendl
9) McEnroe
10) Becker
11) Edberg
12) Murray
13) Wilander
14) Vilas
15) Newcombe
I like this but would put Edberg ahead of Becker, Wilander ahead of Murray and Newk in front of Vilas.1) Djokovic
2) Federer
3) Nadal
4) Sampras
5) Borg
6) Laver
7) Connors
8) Lendl
9) McEnroe
10) Becker
11) Edberg
12) Murray
13) Wilander
14) Vilas
15) Newcombe
I like this but would put Edberg ahead of Becker, Wilander ahead of Murray and Newk in front of Vilas.
And Agassi right behind Mac
I don't really see the case for Becker over Edberg on clay. Edberg won 3 clay titles, with 1 being a Masters Series title, made a French Open final by beating Becker in the SF, and had a higher winning percentage on clay than Becker, who had 0 clay titles.But clay you could put Edberg or Becker ahead, grass Edberg or Becker ahead, hard courts Edberg or Becker ahead.
I don't really see the case for Becker over Edberg on clay. Edberg won 3 clay titles, with 1 being a Masters Series title, made a French Open final by beating Becker in the SF, and had a higher winning percentage on clay than Becker, who had 0 clay titles.
Murray was mostly in play at the Majors from 2008-2016. Let's time shift that to 1989-1997 as one example. Murray would have a tough time even matching his current haul of 3 Majors in that era, IMO.Of course Murray could have had 5+ Slams in a different time. He was RIGHT THERE with the Big 3, bagged three of his own as-is, and was held back at the Aussie only by Novak. This is pretty clear.
Of course Murray could have had 5+ Slams in a different time. He was RIGHT THERE with the Big 3, bagged three of his own as-is, and was held back at the Aussie only by Novak. This is pretty clear.
I put Murray so high because he was so consistent in what has to be the most difficult era in history. He was so close, so many times to bagging more titles but the Big 3 were always there. Beating one is a career highlight, but having to deal with all three is crazy. I just thought Wilander seemed to get a bit lucky in 1982 with Borg long gone. Then his greatest successes came at the point where Lendl was his only consistent competitor. Mac + Conners were old. Mac was in his Hollywood Era. Boris + Stefan were always more his contemporaries but not much of a threat on clay and both prone to upsets at events outside of Wimbledon/grass.
I know Wilander nearly won a slam in 1988, which is always overshadowed by the coincidence of Steffi’s golden ‘88. But was he really ever going to win Wimbledon?
Maybe it was the way he fell so drastically in 1989 at the tender age of 24. He should have been competing alongside Pete and Andre in the early to mid 90s.
Your showing no respect to HEWITT Roddick and Safin or Juan Carlos FerreroThe theory if you remove not just 1, but 3 players, and what they win in THEIR era in that scenario, somehow translates to another, is absurd. And without the Big 3 it would be one of the weakest eras ever overall, as the depth as it was, was sorely lacking, with only Murray and Wawrinka as serious challengers with all of Del Potro's injuries. Without the Big 3 someone like Berdych probably wins 3 or 4 slams, and Wawrinka 7 or 8, with shows you what a terrible era it would now be, so what you could achieve without the Big 3 in that era, no way can translate to any other without also removing players from other eras, and then it just becomes pointless.
Like if you take out Nadal, Djokovic or Federer could win 6 or 7 French Opens, but nobody would say put in another era point blank either win 6 or 7 French Opens. So that logic not even working for just 1 person, it sure as hell aint mathing for removing 3 people.
Your showing no respect to HEWITT Roddick and Safin or Juan Carlos Ferrero
Grok is this true.Murray was mostly in play at the Majors from 2008-2016. Let's time shift that to 1989-1997 as one example. Murray would have a tough time even matching his current haul of 3 Majors in that era, IMO.
Let's go through this hypothetical, with your parameter of Murray now born on May 15, 1968 instead of May 15, 1987:Grok is this true.
If Andy Murray were born in 1968, he would likely win 3–4 Grand Slams, with a best-case scenario of 4–6. His versatile all-court game, elite defense, and mental toughness would thrive against Lendl, Edberg, Becker, Courier, and early Sampras/Agassi, particularly in 1989–91 before Sampras’s dominance. Likely targets include Wimbledon (1989–91), US Open (1989–90, 1994), and Australian Open (1990–91, 1996), with a possible French Open (1989–90). The 1989–1996 era’s less concentrated field and faster surfaces suit Murray’s style, allowing him to match or slightly surpass his real-life 3 slams, cementing him as a top-tier player in this hypothetical scenario.
Again another hot take gone down the drain.
This is fine. Run this. I don't have time to fact check all the time. Murray with grok also comes with 3-4 slams.Let's go through this hypothetical, with your parameter of Murray now born on May 15, 1968 instead of May 15, 1987:
Wimbledon 1989: This is Murray's 2008, when he lost to Nadal, 6-3, 6-2, 6-4 in the QF after coming back from 2 sets and a break down to beat Gasquet in the Round of 16. In 1989, he'd have to beat something like QF: Lendl or McEnroe; SF: Edberg; Final: BeckerWimbledon 1990: This is Murray's 2009, when he lost to Roddick in 4 sets in the SF. In 1990, he'd have to beat something like QF: Ivanišević or Lendl, SF: Becker; Final: EdbergWimbledon 1991: This is Murray's 2010, when he lost to Nadal in the SF, 6-4, 7-6, 6-4. In 1991, he'd have to beat something like QF: Wheaton; SF: Becker; Final: Stich; or QF: Edberg; SF: Stich; Final: BeckerU.S. Open 1989: This is Murray's 2008, when he was straight setted by Federer in the final. In 1989, he'd have to beat something like QF: Agassi or Krickstein; SF: Lendl; Final: BeckerU.S. Open 1990: This is Murray's 2009, when he was straight setted by Čilić in the Round of 16. In 1990, he'd have to beat something like QF: Becker or McEnroe; SF: Agassi; Final: SamprasU.S. Open 1994: This is Murray's 2013, when he was straight setted by Wawrinka in the QF, 6-4, 6-3, 6-2. In 1994, he'd have to beat something like QF: Martin or Nováček; SF: Stich; Final: AgassiAustralian Open 1990: This is Murray's 2009, when he lost to Verdasco in five sets in the Round of 16. In 1990, he'd have to beat something like QF: Wilander or Noah; SF: Edberg; Final: LendlAustralian Open 1991: This is Murray's 2010, when he was straight setted by Federer in the final. In 1991, he'd have to beat something like QF: Patrick McEnroe or Edberg; SF: Lendl; Final: BeckerAustralian Open 1996: This is Murray's 2015, when he lost in four sets in the final to Djokovic. In 1996, he'd have to beat something like QF: Agassi or Woodforde; SF: Chang; Final: BeckerFrench Open 1989: This is Murray's 2008, when he lost in four sets in the third round to Almagro. In 1989, he'd have to beat something like QF: Becker or Chesnokov; SF: Edberg; Final: ChangFrench Open 1990: This is Murray's 2009, when he lost to González in four sets in the Round of 16. In 1990, he'd have to beat something like QF: Muster or Svensson; SF: Agassi; Final: Gómez
I feel good in my assessment that Murray would have a tough time matching his current haul of 3 Majors in this scenario.
How am I being unfair? I took the scenario we both created, showed how Murray did in his initial timeline, and showed the players he would have needed to beat in his adjusted timeline to match his current total of 3 Majors. I'm not saying Murray wins no Majors in his adjusted timeline or even that Murray fails to match his current haul of 3 Majors. I'm just saying that he'd have a tough time doing so.This is fine. Run this. I don't have time to fact check all the time. Murray with grok also comes with 3-4 slams.
You can give hypothetical wins to anyone if you are fair which you are not.
You are unfair by only counting 11 slams. Andy Murray is no joke. He made 25 or so semifinals and way more qf.How am I being unfair? I took the scenario we both created, showed how Murray did in his initial timeline, and showed the players he would have needed to beat in his adjusted timeline to match his current total of 3 Majors. I'm not saying Murray wins no Majors in his adjusted timeline or even that Murray fails to match his current haul of 3 Majors. I'm just saying that he'd have a tough time doing so.
Just look at the first three Majors that Grok produced: Wimbledon from 1989-1991. In those years, Murray would have to beat both peak Becker and peak Edberg in addition to some third player like redlining Stich or 1989 Lendl. That's a tall order, especially on fast grass.
Oh I see. I did what I did b/c this is what you posted as your result from Grok: "His versatile all-court game, elite defense, and mental toughness would thrive against Lendl, Edberg, Becker, Courier, and early Sampras/Agassi, particularly in 1989–91 before Sampras’s dominance. Likely targets include Wimbledon (1989–91), US Open (1989–90, 1994), and Australian Open (1990–91, 1996), with a possible French Open (1989–90)."You are unfair by only counting 11 slams. Andy Murray is no joke. He made 25 or so semifinals and way more qf.
I would definitely not accept just his 11 best runs when many semis runs were great as well.
Guessing that Connnors missing was an accident. Overall a pretty good list.Ok. I will play along. I will also adjust for eras as well.
Open Era list:
Djokovic
Borg
Federer
Nadal
Sampras
Lendl
McEnroe
Agassi
Becker
Edberg
Wilander
Newcombe
Murray
Courier
Vilas
Oops. I meant to place Connors immediately after Lendl.Guessing that Connnors missing was an accident. Overall a pretty good list.
Just to be a contrirain, I am going to make mine a bit different than others.
1. Borg
2. Sampras
3. Nadal
4. Djokovic
5. Federer
6. Connors
7. Lendl
8. McEnroe
9. Agassi
10. Becker
11. Edberg
12. Laver
13. Wilander
14. Newcombe
15. Murray
Ashe, Vilas, Nastase, and Courier just missed it. They easily could have made it.
With Laver, I decided to just judge him form 1968 and ignore his earlier career. 5 grand slams and 72 titles have to count for something. just watching him play on video, you can tell he was the real deal.
I put spaces where I thought there was a more clear margin.
Yeah, Becker v. Eddy is hard. I can flip back and forth there. No way is Murray over Mats, and I'm a big fan as well.Edberg and Becker I go back and forth on all the time. Not only overall which should be higher, but ranking them by surface you could literally make a good argument for one to be ahead of the other on each surface, minus carpet where Becker unquestionably is ahead. But clay you could put Edberg or Becker ahead, grass Edberg or Becker ahead, hard courts Edberg or Becker ahead.
There is no planet Murray can be over Wilander IMHO. Murray does not win 7 majors in any era, including Wilander's. And I am a big Murray fan. That said I do like to see vastly different rankings and opinions so I still welcome that one, just can't ever agee on it, LOL!
No you didn't...Freudian slipOops. I meant to place Connors immediately after Lendl.
That’s a fun list that you posted. Borg is that massive “what if” scenario. 11 slams by age 25, despite skipping the AO nearly every year. 3 straight Channel Slams. The guy was unreal. Growing up, Borg was akin to Elvis Presley splashing onto the scene; at least where I grew up.
Yeah, Becker v. Eddy is hard. I can flip back and forth there. No way is Murray over Mats, and I'm a big fan as well.
No Jimbo ? Can't take this list seriously then, Ha.Ok. I will play along. I will also adjust for eras as well.
Open Era list:
Djokovic
Borg
Federer
Nadal
Sampras
Lendl
McEnroe
Agassi
Becker
Edberg
Wilander
Newcombe
Murray
Courier
Vilas
1. Roger FedererMine is
1.Novak Djokovic
2.Roger Federer
3.Rafael Nadal
4.Pete sampras
5.Bjon Borg
6.Jimmy Connors
7.Andre Agassi
8.Ivan lendl
9.John mcenroe
10.Stefan edberg
11.Andy murray
12.Mats wilander
13.Boris becker
14.Jim courier
15.Marat safin
put yours
Not including guys like Newcombe, Laver, Rosewall etc...who weren't full open era. Obviously Newcombe won the majority of majors after the Open Era started but that's my rule and I'm sticking to it. Otherwise Laver and Rosewall would bump the last three down.
- Federer
- Djokovic
- Nadal
- PETE
- Borg
- Lendl
- Connors
- Mac
- Agassi
- Becker
- Edberg
- Wilander
- Courier
- Murray
- Nastase
All you need to know about Laver is that he won the grand slam in the open era. That’s better than courier.Mine is
1) Novak
2)Fed
3)Rafa
4)Sampras
5)Bjorg
6)Agassi
7)Connors
8)McEnroe
9)Murray
10)Edberg
11)Lendl
12)Becker
13)Mats Wilander
14)Courier
15) J Newcombe
*I don’t know enough about Vilas/Nstase/Laver(in open era)/Rosewall in open era