When did Djokovic play at a higher level at the AO, 2023 or 2026?

In which year was Djokovic's level higher at the AO?

  • 2023

    Votes: 34 79.1%

  • 2026

    Votes: 6 14.0%

  • About the same

    Votes: 3 7.0%
  • Total voters
    43
Megafanoftennis100

Megafanoftennis100

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One thing is for sure though:
Djokovic's draw at 2026 AO was incomparably harder than his draw at 2023 AO.

But in which event did he actually play at a higher level himself?
I am leaning toward 2023 for the earlier rounds (R1-QF), but leaning toward 2026 for the SF and F performances.

What do you guys think?
 
In 2023 he played 7 straight losers one after the other.

None of those matches compares to the Sinner match, but the Sinner match is an anomaly made possible by the very particular circumstances under which it happened.

Not sure there is any real argument for 2026 over 2023.
 
In 2026 AO he only played at that level in the SF and the first set of the final. In 2023 he was still gooby.

He did only play losers in 2023, but owned them all like expected.

2023>>>>2026
 
Megafanoftennis100 said:
He still did play the semis and the finals, the two most important stages by far.
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Who cares? He got to skip like 2 rounds. it's the same think with Kyrgios making the final in Wimbledon - dude got a cakewalk schedule to the final. It's not his fault or Djokovic's fault, but it doesn't go down in the books as a challenging path to the finals by any means.
 
ibbi said:
In 2023 he played 7 straight losers one after the other.

None of those matches compares to the Sinner match, but the Sinner match is an anomaly made possible by the very particular circumstances under which it happened.

Not sure there is any real argument for 2026 over 2023.
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He often benefits from easy schedules at majors, but that was usually because he was seeded number 1 or 2 at the time he cleaned up during the weak era, so that's expected - and he should be given credit for that because you should get cakewalk draws when you're seeded 1 or 2. In 2023 I think he was seeded like 4, but he played all the guys that enjoyed losing in the tunnel before they even stepped foot on court. I mean, who did he play in the final in 2023? Tsitstpas? LOL

2026 - he got a walkover in one round and and was about to go home in another round (in his own words) to Spaghetti Mussetti who cracked a hip mid match and had to retire. This isn't a schedule that one remembers fondly.
 
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Djokovic was a wrecking machine in 2023, hellbent to reclaim the title that he felt he never lost. Nothing was stopping him in 2023, and he had plenty of stamina if needed, he was coming out swinging at the start of every match, brutal conviction.

The match against Sinner was played at that level only because Djokovic got lucky with his last two rounds.
 
Megafanoftennis100 said:
One thing is for sure though:
Djokovic's draw at 2026 AO was incomparably harder than his draw at 2023 AO.

But in which event did he actually play at a higher level himself?
I am leaning toward 2023 for the earlier rounds (R1-QF), but leaning toward 2026 for the SF and F performances.

What do you guys think?
Click to expand...
Hard to say really. Djokovic had a total cakewalk in 2023 and was lucky Nadal was off tour as i suspect the early 2022 Nadal would have defended his AO given Djokovic's level.

That said Djokovic was woeful at AO 2026. His SF was an anamoly and even that was against Sinner playing his worse match at a slam in his career (according to him). On balance id probably go AO 2023 as he was 3 years younger.

Last time i saw a truly top level Djokovic was 2019. his decline, like everyone else, during the Covid Era was very noticeable which is why i am starting to think that 3 year period may well be asterisked as a whole,
 
2023 by a good distance I think. Going aggressive against Sinner made the optics of 2026 look better to an extent, but even if it was against better competition it's hard to put it over the all-rounded dominance he showed across all seven matches to reclaim his kingdom three years ago. At the very least he wouldn't have stamina issues to the same extent
 
NoleFam said:
He hit his forehand in 2023 like he did in the SF and the 1st set of the final, but did it the entire tournament. 2023 by some distance imo.
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He had payback for AO 2022 on his mind, and he was going to rip everyone to shreds. You could see the cold bloodied ruthless intensity in him, he was launching missiles left and right. He knows the AO 2022 was his had he played, so that motivation to reclaim what belonged to him and basically right the big wrong of the year before was fuelling him like nothing I have seen before. It is a shame Nadal got injured that AO, because you can bet Djokovic was going to curb stomp him into oblivion had they played.
 
Hitman said:
He had payback for AO 2022 on his mind, and he was going to rip everyone to shreds. You could see the cold bloodied ruthless intensity in him, he was launching missiles left and right. He knows the AO 2022 was his had he played, so that motivation to reclaim what belonged to him and basically right the big wrong of the year before was fuelling him like nothing I have seen before. It is a shame Nadal got injured that AO, because you can bet Djokovic was going to curb stomp him into oblivion had they played.
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Yea he had something to prove in 2023 and was was ruthlessly efficient. It wasn't the toughest draw he's had but in that type of mood, it was hard to see any sequence of players that he could have played stopping him. Nadal was already on a downward slide after Wimbledon 2022 and would have had no chance even if he didn't get injured.
 
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NoleFam said:
Yea he had something to prove in 2023 and was was ruthlessly running efficient. It wasn't the toughest draw he's had but in that type of mood, it was hard to see any sequence of players that he could have played stopping him. Nadal was already on a downward slide after Wimbledon 2022 and would have had no chance even if he didn't get injured.
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It doesn't matter about the draw, you could tell just by the look in his eyes he was out for blood, and he had some serious pain he wanted to dish out. He was not leaving Melbourne without the title and getting his name on the slam record again.

Nadal was sliding yes, but lets be honest, as you said, that Nadal would have no chance against Djokovic at AO 2023, heck, he wasn't beating him at W either. If Nadal in his best years couldn't take three sets off Djokovic at those two venues, the chances of him doing it after turning 36 were not good at all.
 
Hitman said:
He had payback for AO 2022 on his mind, and he was going to rip everyone to shreds. You could see the cold bloodied ruthless intensity in him, he was launching missiles left and right. He knows the AO 2022 was his had he played, so that motivation to reclaim what belonged to him and basically right the big wrong of the year before was fuelling him like nothing I have seen before. It is a shame Nadal got injured that AO, because you can bet Djokovic was going to curb stomp him into oblivion had they played.
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LOL
I get that Djokovic was redlining throughout 2023 AO, but let's not make it sound like he was some invincible deity in that tournament.
Remember that he had a tight match against a post-prime Tsitsipas in the finals, where he could've lost the 2nd set.
 
Megafanoftennis100 said:
LOL
I get that Djokovic was redlining throughout 2023 AO, but let's not make it sound like he was some invincible deity in that tournament.
Remember that he had a tight match against a post-prime Tsitsipas in the finals, where he could've lost the 2nd set.
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It was straight sets in the end, and yes he was down SP in the second set, and then you saw how he blasted his way out of it. Even Nadal RG 2008 had to save SP against Djokovic in the semis, but that doesn't mean the outcome was in doubt. The guy dropped one set, basically at the start of the tournament and never looked back.
 
Here is my take on their levels:
2026 AO Djokovic throughout R1-QF & in sets 2 and 3 of the F < 2023 AO Djokovic in the F < 2026 AO Djokovic in set 4 of the F ≤ 2023 AO Djokovic throughout R1-SF < 2026 AO Djokovic in SF & in set 1 of the F
 
I owe Novak fans an apology being on this forum just a few weeks made me realize how as tribal nadal and fed fans can be . I got attacked for having a nuanced or different opinion by a wild "fed fan". @Hitman , while we don't agree on everything seems particuarly reasonable to me.
 
Gastino said:
I owe Novak fans an apology being on this forum just a few weeks made me realize how as tribal nadal and fed fans can be . I got attacked for having a nuanced or different opinion by a wild "fed fan". @Hitman , while we don't agree on everything seems particuarly reasonable to me.
Click to expand...

Wild Fed Fan?

Just imagining walking through the Savannahs of the Serengeti.
 
Megafanoftennis100 said:
With all due respect, I disagree.
The latest version of Nadal at the AO that surpasses 2023 AO Djokovic's level would be 2017 Nadal. Or maybe the 2019 version pre-final.
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Not the final versions though, thats the issue and how i will sort of remember the two GOATs...Nadal raised his game in slam finals, Djokovic tended to drop down a level. If Nadal was fit surely they would have been in the final?
 
Hitman said:
It doesn't matter about the draw, you could tell just by the look in his eyes he was out for blood, and he had some serious pain he wanted to dish out. He was not leaving Melbourne without the title and getting his name on the slam record again.

Nadal was sliding yes, but lets be honest, as you said, that Nadal would have no chance against Djokovic at AO 2023, heck, he wasn't beating him at W either. If Nadal in his best years couldn't take three sets off Djokovic at those two venues, the chances of him doing it after turning 36 were not good at all.
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Yea, after what happened in 2022 anything less than a title wouldn't have been acceptable for him. Plus #10 was a huge milestone and a lot of motivation as well.

To me, Nadal had a huge drop-off after fall 2022. I knew then that he was pretty much done this time and his body was falling apart. He had a poor record from September 2022 to Januray 2023.
 
messiahrobins said:
Hard to say really. Djokovic had a total cakewalk in 2023 and was lucky Nadal was off tour as i suspect the early 2022 Nadal would have defended his AO given Djokovic's level.

That said Djokovic was woeful at AO 2026. His SF was an anamoly and even that was against Sinner playing his worse match at a slam in his career (according to him). On balance id probably go AO 2023 as he was 3 years younger.

Last time i saw a truly top level Djokovic was 2019. his decline, like everyone else, during the Covid Era was very noticeable which is why i am starting to think that 3 year period may well be asterisked as a whole,
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What??
Remind me when was the last HC set Rafa actually won against Djoko?? US Open 2013 iirc

Rafa was lucky he didn't have to go Djoko (or Roger) at the US in 17 & 19 in a period where he was losing every single match off clay to them (and every single set to Novak)
 
Chanwan said:
What??
Remind me when was the last HC set Rafa actually won against Djoko?? US Open 2013 iirc

Rafa was lucky he didn't have to go Djoko (or Roger) at the US in 17 & 19 in a period where he was losing every single match off clay to them (and every single set to Novak)
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Sport isnt decided on spreadsheets. Current form is what matters. Do you think Alcaraz will keep beating Sinner on clay? Or sinner beating Alcaraz on grass?
 
messiahrobins said:
Sport isnt decided on spreadsheets. Current form is what matters. Do you think Alcaraz will keep beating Sinner on clay? Or sinner beating Alcaraz on grass?
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Nice deflection. I don't know cause both are capable of beating each other across surfaces.
Now late Rafa vs Novak on HC to get back on track was not too far off from a Sinner vs Demon type of h2h. Nothing in their match up suggests Rafa wins that match

Rafa needed his legs to compete with and beat Novak (and to a leaser extent Roger) on HC. Once he lost a step and had to play a more aggressive game, he was at their mercy cause they were better at that game than he was

Good enough vs the field, sure. Hence US O 17, 19 and AO 22
 
Chanwan said:
Nice deflection. I don't know cause both are capable of beating each other across surfaces.
Now late Rafa vs Novak on HC to get back on track was not too far off from a Sinner vs Demon type of h2h. Nothing in their match up suggests Rafa wins that match

Rafa needed his legs to compete with and beat Novak (and to a leaser extent Roger) on HC. Once he lost a step and had to play a more aggressive game, he was at their mercy cause they were better at that game than he was

Good enough vs the field, sure. Hence US O 17, 19 and AO 22
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Djokovic in 2017 would have been beaten in straight sets and in 2019 in 4 sets. Federer was not beating Rafa at the USO either those years. He barely beat Rafa at AO in 2017. Rafa has always been far better at USO than AO much like Alcaraz now is.

2022 and 2023 Djokovic was easy pickings for Rafa and there is a simple reason why. Djokovic had stamina issues by that point. Nadal was too physical for him which we saw at RG 2022. People make the mistake of thinking matches between them in their late 30s would be like their whole careers. You make the valid point about Rafas loss of speed and I agree. But to counter that Djokovics primary weapon, his wall like defence and terminator style stamina, was no longer there. Hadn't been for a while. Had Rafa remained fit like Novak I'm certain now Rafa would be no.3 ior 4 n the world but Rafa would be in the same boat as Djokovic, I e his declined state ruthlessly exposed mercilessly by Alcaraz and Sinner.

Djokovic and Rafa in their late 30s were totally different players to their peak years
 
Hitman said:
Djokovic was a wrecking machine in 2023, hellbent to reclaim the title that he felt he never lost. Nothing was stopping him in 2023, and he had plenty of stamina if needed, he was coming out swinging at the start of every match, brutal conviction.

The match against Sinner was played at that level only because Djokovic got lucky with his last two rounds.
Click to expand...
This… plus the fact that the jump from age 35 to age 38 is a mile-high parachute drop when it comes to atp pro singles level.
 
messiahrobins said:
Hard to say really. Djokovic had a total cakewalk in 2023 and was lucky Nadal was off tour as i suspect the early 2022 Nadal would have defended his AO given Djokovic's level.

That said Djokovic was woeful at AO 2026. His SF was an anamoly and even that was against Sinner playing his worse match at a slam in his career (according to him). On balance id probably go AO 2023 as he was 3 years younger.

Last time i saw a truly top level Djokovic was 2019. his decline, like everyone else, during the Covid Era was very noticeable which is why i am starting to think that 3 year period may well be asterisked as a whole,
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No chance 2023 Rafa was beating Novak in Australia. The brutal reality is Rafa never won a single set in 9 hardcourt matches with Novak from Us open 2013 till he retired. 2023 Novak would have won comfortably.
 
2023 was stellar; he dropped only one set, and it was a tie-break. The only other time he did that was in 2011. And did that despite a torn hamstring. He was regularly losing 0-2 games per set, straight-setted Dimitrov, massacred Rublev and De Minaur and also straight-setted a very well playing Tsitsipas who had beaten Sinner, although the Greek managed to take him to two tie-breaks.

I remember pre-tournament being happy Alcaraz wasn't playing because I thought he'd beat him there, but seeing their other meetings the rest of the year, and their AO meeting 2 years later, I have no doubt Djokovic would have won.
 
Megafanoftennis100 said:
BTW @messiahrobins do you agree with my take here?
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Yes broadly i do.

People mistake me as a Djokovic hater. I really like him, but im also old school and a harsh judge. I measure Djokovic against his 2011 level and his AO 2019 level. I was fortunate enough to be in australia in 2019 and saw Novak Roger and Rafa very close up that event both in matches and practice. I knew Djokovic was winning, believe me he was playing tennis from the gods that event, the sound off his racket in matches and practice honestly was like a pavarotti concert it was so resonant. His timing was just unreal.

Djokovic 2020-2026 i'll never consider the real Djokovic despite his excellent results. Its like asking me as a Nadal fan to make myself happy on a gloomy day and watch Nadal at his best..then giving me his early 2022 DVD!! Nadal 2022, as heroic a year as it was, was not the real Rafa. This applies to all the legends, i am never going to really watch their end of career matches, even the great results they had. I want to rewatch them in their absolute pomp.
 
paolo2143 said:
No chance 2023 Rafa was beating Novak in Australia. The brutal reality is Rafa never won a single set in 9 hardcourt matches with Novak from Us open 2013 till he retired. 2023 Novak would have won comfortably.
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Not on the form they were in that 12 month period. You are assuming Djokovic would be in 2015 form and Rafa in 2015 form which is the period all those Djokovic wins came..2015-2016.

I accept if Djokovic 2019 turned up in 2023, Rafa would not win, but my point is we are talking about a very declined Djokovic in 2023 and Rafa's 2022 form would have been enough to beat him in a best of 5 set match.
 
messiahrobins said:
This applies to all the legends, i am never going to really watch their end of career matches, even the great results they had. I want to rewatch them in their absolute pomp.
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Totally reasonable, even if I find myself on the other side of the coin here. Perhaps I just haven't been into sports long enough to get emotionally attached to the viewing experience of an athlete in their prime compared to their late career, but I find the refusal of great athletes to fade into obscurity with age a more beautiful and inspiring thing. My favourite boxer of all time is George Foreman for this reason. Rationally I can understand that 90s Foreman would get knocked out early by his 70s self, but there's a complexity in the old fox that I find as exciting as the sheer power of the young gun. Djokaraz has fascinated me for the last few years because the contrast between ATGs h2h in this regard has rarely been greater
 
BauerAlmeida said:
2023 was stellar; he dropped only one set, and it was a tie-break. The only other time he did that was in 2011. And did that despite a torn hamstring. He was regularly losing 0-2 games per set, straight-setted Dimitrov, massacred Rublev and De Minaur and also straight-setted a very well playing Tsitsipas who had beaten Sinner, although the Greek managed to take him to two tie-breaks.

I remember pre-tournament being happy Alcaraz wasn't playing because I thought he'd beat him there, but seeing their other meetings the rest of the year, and their AO meeting 2 years later, I have no doubt Djokovic would have won.
Click to expand...

I am sure he won 2008 while dropping one set in the final also.
 
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