When Fanfic meets Reality: If Federer has gotten worse, why are his stats better?

SaintPetros

Professional
I don't agree with you.

However, despite my little trolling, you're responses are fair.

I do agree that a GOAT does not exist. Even as a huge Fedr fan I don't consider him to be the GOAT.

Fedr >>>>>> Sampras in my book because reaching 12 finals is better than 7. Federer has reached more finals than Sampras and has won more finals than Sampras at Wimbledon, AO, RG and WTF.
I guess quantity is more important than quality in your book. To each his own.
 

SaintPetros

Professional
It's never been done before, but I suppose Brad Gilbert would know that better than anyone. Someone could tweet him about it.

RF's extremist wing faction (which isn't even the majority of RF fans) have pioneered many things, none of them constructive or useful. Because they commit over and over the biggest logic no-no: they decided on the end-result BEFORE analyzing or conducting an experiment. That is of course anti-science.
Is Anti-Science to science what Anti-matter is to matter? Interesting.
 

SaintPetros

Professional
Fed has been peak 4 years (2004-07), old 12 years (2008-19).
Djokovic peak 9 years (2011-19), old 0 years.
Nadal peak 12 years (2008-19), old 0 years.
Normally I would agree with you, but since joining this site I've discovered there doesn't exist any consensus on "Peak" Fed. It seems to be change the more you bring it up, so much so that I wonder if this creature is more Myth than man. I guess if we could construct a timeline around each Federer loss, we might get close to this Incredible Being. You're a stats man, so I thought I'd mention it.
 

Eren

Professional
“I think I’m a better player now than when I was at 24 because I’ve practiced for another 10 years and I’ve got 10 years more experience,” Federer said. “Maybe I don’t have the confidence level that I had at 24 when I was winning 40 matches in a row, but I feel like I hit a bigger serve, my backhand is better, my forehand is still as good as it’s ever been, I volley better than I have in the past. I think I’ve had to adapt to a new generation of players again.” (August, 2015)


Question:

In 2003 you won your first title in Dubai. How much chances would the Federer of 2003 have against the Federer of today?

Answer from Federer:

Not many chances I believe. The game has extremely changed. It is more dynamic, faster and has become somewhat ruthless. The players are more athletic and the material makes the game faster. I myself have become better. In fact, I had to become better because I had new opponents and new challenges. Tennis on this level doesn’t allow you stagnancy. (March, 2019)
Just wanted to copy paste this Sampras quote LMAO.

Similar approach to Sampras "Everyone was getting better when I was No 1 in the world and winning majors left and right. I was 10 times the player as I got older. "

Nice, so Safin, Hewitt and baby zygote Federer are MORE than ten times the player Sampras ever was in his 20s. Never thought of it like that. But now, it's settled.

More Comedy Gold @SaintPetros

"Everyone was getting better when I was No 1 in the world and winning majors left and right. I was 10 times the player as I got older. When I was dominating I didn't have any bad matches and players overall weren't as good. The 2002 US Open Pete would beat the 1994 or 1995 Pete easily. "

LMAO.

So, Sampras weak era confirmed by the man HIMSELF. I am going to make a thread about it.
 

SaintPetros

Professional
Just wanted to copy paste this Sampras quote LMAO.

Similar approach to Sampras "Everyone was getting better when I was No 1 in the world and winning majors left and right. I was 10 times the player as I got older. "

Nice, so Safin, Hewitt and baby zygote Federer are MORE than ten times the player Sampras ever was in his 20s. Never thought of it like that. But now, it's settled.
Now you're getting desperate (deflection is giving you away), but regardless, if we entertain a little thing called context, we'll realize that the quote referred to his final tournament and match, and he won it by beating everyone and their mother (something Fedfans can only dream of, so I understand the salt btw).

Federer's quote is of course referring to his overall form in 2019 being superior to 2003.
 

Eren

Professional
Now you're getting desperate (deflection is giving you away), but regardless, if we entertain a little thing called context, we'll realize that the quote referred to his final tournament and match, and he won it by beating everyone and their mother (something Fedfans can only dream of, so I understand the salt btw).
No my friend, it's facts lol. According to him, the 90s overall had worse players.
 

SaintPetros

Professional
No my friend, it's facts lol. According to him, the 90s overall had worse players.
Using your logic, I guess zygote Tsitsipas trumps Peakerer. Interesting. So from where does your venom towards Djokovic's superiority come? He's obviously better than Tsitsipas. Or do achievements not matter anymore either?
 

Eren

Professional
According to whom?

Did God post on TTW???
According to SaintPetros and ABCD, you have to believe EVERYTHING a player says about his own performance. So according to their logic, these are facts.

But I agree with you, Sampras was a bit coo coo and hung up in the moment, because he achieved his final Slam Win and thought he would never be in that place ever again.
 
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Eren

Professional
Using your logic, I guess zygote Tsitsipas trumps Peakerer. Interesting. So from where does your venom towards Djokovic's superiority come? He's obviously better than Tsitsipas. Or do achievements not matter anymore either?
Federer is a weakling, Tsitsipas is much better than Federer, we all know that.

PS: No venom against Djokovic at all. Just against idiots who think Federer is like a sixth wheel, only has a career because of the year he was born in lol.
 

SaintPetros

Professional
Federer is a weakling, Tsitsipas is much better than Federer, we all know that.

PS: No venom against Djokovic at all. Just against idiots who think Federer is like a sixth wheel, only has a career because of the year he was born in lol.
But you acknowledged that Tsitsipas is superior to Federer...so wouldn't Fed be worse than sixth wheel in your book? More like 8th wheel right now?
 

Third Serve

Hall of Fame
Haters become fans, and fans become haters... It's all rather chaotic.
Have you ever seen that Thomas brunkle guy in the YouTube comments? He is a textbook example of this. He used to be an aggressive Fed fan, hating on Rafa and such. But now he's a Djokovic fan for some reason and he wastes no time in hating on Federer these days.
 

UnderratedSlam

Hall of Fame
Have you ever seen that Thomas brunkle guy in the YouTube comments? He is a textbook example of this. He used to be an aggressive Fed fan, hating on Rafa and such. But now he's a Djokovic fan for some reason and he wastes no time in hating on Federer these days.
There are thousands such cases.

I've always said that most of RF's fans a decade ago were there just to be on the side of the dominator and that they'd abandon him and jump ship as soon as someone else appeared who was as good or better or more successful or more promising or whatever. Followers, sheep.
 

Eren

Professional
Have you ever seen that Thomas brunkle guy in the YouTube comments? He is a textbook example of this. He used to be an aggressive Fed fan, hating on Rafa and such. But now he's a Djokovic fan for some reason and he wastes no time in hating on Federer these days.
Look up RuansFedererBlog. Dude was a fan of Federer and had a blog devoted to him. Suddenly chose Djokovic's side in 2015 and says it is not glory hunting because he also liked Djokovic starting from 2011 (I kid you not lol).

Nowadays, he is only active on Facebook with the name 'UltimateTennisBlog' and is hating on Federer like no other and uses illogical reasoning (Federer only beat Nadal at AO in 2017 because Nadal declined but Federer at 35 in that match was as good if not better than ever LOL).
 

SaintPetros

Professional
Look up RuansFedererBlog. Dude was a fan of Federer and had a blog devoted to him. Suddenly chose Djokovic's side in 2015 and says it is not glory hunting because he also liked Djokovic starting from 2011 (I kid you not lol).

Nowadays, he is only active on Facebook with the name 'UltimateTennisBlog' and is hating on Federer like no other and uses illogical reasoning (Federer only beat Nadal at AO in 2017 because Nadal declined but Federer at 35 in that match was as good if not better than ever LOL).
Point out the illogic please. Without references to mythical Peak beings please. Thanks.
 

Eren

Professional
Point out the illogic please. Without references to mythical Peak beings please. Thanks.
Well, you're persistent.

Would you believe PETE was peak at 29 when he lost to 19 Freddy?

This guy believes anyone can always decline especially 30 year old Nadal, but 35 year old Federer cannot decline because decline does not exist in his universe. If so, how did Nadal decline?

I trust that you're smart enough to figure out that this is a bit illogic.
 

SaintPetros

Professional
Well, you're persistent.

Would you believe PETE was peak at 29 when he lost to 19 Freddy?

This guy believes anyone can always decline especially 30 year old Nadal, but 35 year old Federer cannot decline because decline does not exist in his universe. If so, how did Nadal decline?

I trust that you're smart enough to figure out that this is a bit illogic.
PETE is not Federer. Federer is not Nadal. Nadal is not PETE. They all have different bodies and rates of decline. Also, PETE lived in an era where the modern sports recovery techniques didn't exist, as has already been pointed out to you.
So again, explain to me the illogic. Nadal has gone on record saying he is worse than before. Fed has gone on record saying the opposite. But again, I guess you know best...
 

Eren

Professional
PETE is not Federer. Federer is not Nadal. Nadal is not PETE. They all have different bodies and rates of decline. Also, PETE lived in an era where the modern sports recovery techniques didn't exist, as has already been pointed out to you.
So again, explain to me the illogic. Nadal has gone on record saying he is worse than before. Fed has gone on record saying the opposite. But again, I guess you know best...
Mention those modern sports techniques that make you a decade younger. I will buy those.

Please post proof of Federer using these amazing techniques and perhaps a peer reviewed journal that proves the technique is not snake oil.
 

Eren

Professional
More deflection. What more should I expect? It's the idealist in me, oh well...
You"re right. 90s had weaker players than 2000s. Sampras said so.

You mention stuff and don't back it up. Mention techniques and the proof Freddy is using it along with proof that it works. I want to be a decade younger too.
 

SaintPetros

Professional
You"re right. 90s had weaker players than 2000s. Sampras said so.

You mention stuff and don't back it up. Mention techniques and the proof Freddy is using it along with proof that it works. I want to be a decade younger too.
I'm refusing to engage in your strawman that Freddy was better in his Mythical Peak Years (which coincided with the Great Weak Era, wink wink) than now. He directly contradicts that. Deflecting to Sampras doesn't change a thing. Sampras could be the worst player in history, and it won't change what Federer said about his level being better than ever.
 

Eren

Professional
I'm refusing to engage in your strawman that Freddy was better in his Mythical Peak Years (which coincided with the Great Weak Era, wink wink) than now. He directly contradicts that. Deflecting to Sampras doesn't change a thing. Sampras could be the worst player in history, and it won't change what Federer said about his level being better than ever.
Mythical modern sport techniques. At least, according to Sampras 90s era < 2000 - present.
 

Eren

Professional
PETE is not Federer. Federer is not Nadal. Nadal is not PETE. They all have different bodies and rates of decline. Also, PETE lived in an era where the modern sports recovery techniques didn't exist, as has already been pointed out to you.
So again, explain to me the illogic. Nadal has gone on record saying he is worse than before. Fed has gone on record saying the opposite. But again, I guess you know best...
About this, according to that guy DECLINE DOES NOT EXIST. GET IT!!!!

So no player can decline. How did Nadal decline according to his logic? He could not have. So inconsistent and illogic.
 

SaintPetros

Professional
About this, according to that guy DECLINE DOES NOT EXIST. GET IT!!!!

So no player can decline. How did Nadal decline according to his logic? He could not have. So inconsistent and illogic.
You wrote that his logic was "Federer only beat Nadal at AO in 2017 because Nadal declined but Federer at 35 in that match was as good if not better than ever" (LOL removed)
I don't see evidence there of no player being capable of decline. I see that this poster believed Nadal declined and Federer improved, which is born out by what they said about themselves. The only logic this seems to conflict with is your head's logic.

So far, you've only exposed your own illogic in the attempt to show his, and made yourself look the worse for wear.
 

Eren

Professional
You wrote that his logic was "Federer only beat Nadal at AO in 2017 because Nadal declined but Federer at 35 in that match was as good if not better than ever" (LOL removed)
I don't see evidence there of no player being capable of decline. I see that this poster believed Nadal declined and Federer improved, which is born out by what they said about themselves. The only logic this seems to conflict with is your head's logic.

So far, you've only exposed your own illogic in the attempt to show his, and made yourself look the worse for wear.
I added his further statement but I guess I can now understand why you did not see it at first as I did not explicitly state everything. 2017 is two years ago!

And no lol, he said it in 2017 and Nadal mentioned his decline in 2019!

It was born out of his desperation to prop Djoko's win over Fred in his 30s.

Last, the guy is not a poster on here AFAIK.
 

SaintPetros

Professional
I added his further statement but I guess I can now understand why you did not see it at first as I did not explicitly state everything. 2017 is two years ago!
Fair.
Btw Fed is definitely ONE of the GOATs. Just not sure I feel comfortable with putting him on THE pedestal, for many reasons.
 

Third Serve

Hall of Fame
To me, it's impossible to figure out who the GOAT is. Too many variables and it's too hard to compare different eras.
 
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