When Fed's Slam record will be TRULY safe?

How many?

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DSH

DSH

Legend
carsondaly said:
This shows many things but most of all how comical people who thought Sampras's 14 would last 100 years were. I did not expect 3 guys to possibly win 20+ slams back then, but I also knew 14 would fall a lot faster than anyone thought. 14 would not even have been the record even had all 4 slams been valued back then.
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No, nobody thought that way.
That there was someone who would surpass the Sampras record in such a short period, that was unexpected (although it was facilitated by Nadal's injury in 2009) but, if one knows a little about the history of tennis, knows that there were several circumstances, so the figure, 14, is not a record totally in line with what other players in the course of history could have achieved.
Tilden, Gonzales, Rosewall, Laver and other great players may have won more Majors than Sampras if the political, structural conditions of the tour had been similar to that of the American.

It is useless to compare that time with those of the 1990s and even now, it is different than 25 years ago, for example.
 
alexio88

alexio88

Hall of Fame
Zara said:
Don't agree with Sudaca on this that it's Federer's fault. Federer is more vulnerable at this stage of his career and the fact that, two guys are right behind him trying to catch him makes him even more vulnerable. So it's likely that he'll collapse at crucial moments.
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it's not about the age or stage, it's about the essence.. so sudaca was right
 
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Sunny Ali

Sunny Ali

Hall of Fame
Zara said:
Don't agree with Sudaca on this that it's Federer's fault. Federer is more vulnerable at this stage of his career and the fact that, two guys are right behind him trying to catch him makes him even more vulnerable. So it's likely that he'll collapse at crucial moments.
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Zara ... good points. Works both ways too- Nadal on the verge of catching Federer stumbled but somehow won his final. Federer knowing 2 guys were nipping at his heels stumbled and lost. I understand psychology can play a big part in these kind of circumstances.
 
Mike Sams

Mike Sams

Legend
Sunny Ali said:
Well it's simple. Federer/Nadal have a game that does not do much against Djokovic, a match-up as they call it. Likewise Djokovic's game does nothing against Stan so he is able to consistently beat Djokovic. Luckily for Djokovic, Wawrinka took ages to get his mental act together. If Wawrinka is anywhere close to his best, he will beat Djokovic consistently.
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What does Federer do against Stan than Djokovic isn't doing? More variation? More slices? Wouldn't Djokovic by now have figured out Stan after this many years? Seems like he's playing the exact same style against Stan every time with nothing new or different tactically. Just pounding the ball from the baseline and hoping Stan folds. And then attempting drop shots during their rallies which is more desperation than anything.
 
Sunny Ali

Sunny Ali

Hall of Fame
Mike Sams said:
What does Federer do against Stan than Djokovic isn't doing? More variation? More slices? Wouldn't Djokovic by now have figured out Stan after this many years? Seems like he's playing the exact same style against Stan every time with nothing new or different tactically. Just pounding the ball from the baseline and hoping Stan folds. And then attempting drop shots during their rallies which is more desperation than anything.
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Agreed. Possibly because Djokovic doesn't have anything left in his repertoire to counter Stan? That's his biggest problem. Grinding it out can work against Federer or Nadal but not against Stan who can beat the ball to a pulp with his power!
 
Mike Sams

Mike Sams

Legend
Sunny Ali said:
Agreed. Possibly because Djokovic doesn't have anything left in his repertoire to counter Stan? That's his biggest problem. Grinding it out can work against Federer or Nadal but not against Stan who can beat the ball to a pulp with his power!
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True. Also, Sunny Deol is one of my favourites!
Dharmendra though was one of the greatest ever! :cool:
 
Z

zep

Hall of Fame
I have to say, many Federer fans you see on the first two pages have almost abandoned this forum lol. Goes to show how much the slam race matters to them. Anyway, I still think Federer can add ~2 majors to his total and that will be very tough for Rafa. 2020 will be key, he has to win at least 1 next year and with Djokovic's uncertainty it's absolutely possible, especially at AO and Wimbledon. I am hearing that Craig Tiley is importing the Basel surface to help Federer. That will be a massive boost to his chances. Plus now that they do backstage draws at AO, Fed will get a US Open like draw till semi.

 
UnderratedSlam

UnderratedSlam

Hall of Fame
zep said:
I have to say, many Federer fans you see on the first two pages have almost abandoned this forum lol. Goes to show how much the slam race matters to them. Anyway, I still think Federer can add ~2 majors to his total and that will be very tough for Rafa. 2020 will be key, he has to win at least 1 next year and with Djokovic's uncertainty it's absolutely possible, especially at AO and Wimbledon. I am hearing that Craig Tiley is importing the Basel surface to help Federer. That will be a massive boost to his chances. Plus now that they do backstage draws at AO, Fed will get a US Open like draw till semi.
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Worse yet, some RF fans know about the draw rigging and fully support it.

The slam race has become like mafia wars, anything goes, the end justifies the means, any means. Pathetic and laughable.
 
Mike Sams

Mike Sams

Legend
zep said:
I have to say, many Federer fans you see on the first two pages have almost abandoned this forum lol. Goes to show how much the slam race matters to them. Anyway, I still think Federer can add ~2 majors to his total and that will be very tough for Rafa. 2020 will be key, he has to win at least 1 next year and with Djokovic's uncertainty it's absolutely possible, especially at AO and Wimbledon. I am hearing that Craig Tiley is importing the Basel surface to help Federer. That will be a massive boost to his chances. Plus now that they do backstage draws at AO, Fed will get a US Open like draw till semi.

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Lol what a load of crock. They're not helping Federer in any way nor tampering with the surface.
 
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gn

gn

G.O.A.T.
Haven't you heard? They are bringing the entire Basel city to Melbourne to make sure the court stays at higher altitude.
 
Mike Sams

Mike Sams

Legend
BrooklynNY said:
But they actually are changing the surface at the AO next year - what type of crock are you referring to?
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Where are you getting this news, BrooklynNY regarding the rigging of the AO draw and the change of surface? It's not published anywhere on any other tennis forum.
 
TheGhostOfAgassi

TheGhostOfAgassi

Talk Tennis Guru
zep said:
I have to say, many Federer fans you see on the first two pages have almost abandoned this forum lol. Goes to show how much the slam race matters to them. Anyway, I still think Federer can add ~2 majors to his total and that will be very tough for Rafa. 2020 will be key, he has to win at least 1 next year and with Djokovic's uncertainty it's absolutely possible, especially at AO and Wimbledon. I am hearing that Craig Tiley is importing the Basel surface to help Federer. That will be a massive boost to his chances. Plus now that they do backstage draws at AO, Fed will get a US Open like draw till semi.

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Federer likes fast, but good bounce. He doesnt like a "dead" court. So.... for Rafa this can be better. Rafa can take any speed, just the bounce that matters.
Will be very interesting to see how the new courts are played!
 
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Z

zep

Hall of Fame
TheGhostOfAgassi said:
Federer likes fast, but good bounce. He doesnt like a "dead" court. So.... for Rafa this can be better. Rafa can take any speed, just the bounce that matters.
Will be very interesting to see how the new courts are played!
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Basel is low bouncy and quite fast, I am expecting a similar court.
 
TheGhostOfAgassi

TheGhostOfAgassi

Talk Tennis Guru
zep said:
Basel is low bouncy and quite fast, I am expecting a similar court.
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Maybe Novak and Rafa should play Basel this year then, to prepare. :unsure: Not sure what Federer would think of that :p
It will be a higher bounce in AO since Basel not a huge stadium and indoors.
 
THUNDERVOLLEY

THUNDERVOLLEY

G.O.A.T.
BorgTheGOAT said:
Please name me some other instance where one player is considered greater than another despite being 5 slams behind. Not to mention that Nadal has the lead in masters,H2H, and in your hypothetical scenario most likely would have caught up in other metrics as well.
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You see where the worst of Federer's fans go: when they thought Federer had a majors count that could not be reached--that was their criteria for crowning him GOAT, but the second Nadal was moving in, they either posted threads (like one recently deleted, claiming #16 was his last), or won this year's FO/USO, now the goal posts are moved in predictable fashion. They are living in absolute terror that Nadal will not only tie Federer's majors count one day, but will pass it. They set the criteria, now they have to live with it: Nadal will be the GOAT once he passes Federer.


D.Nalby12 said:
Unfortunately Federer has left no option but play till 2021 end. Keep trying and see whether you can pick one or two. Better than retiring and hopelessly witnessing his records getting surpassed.
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Even if he plays until the USO of 2021--even win another, eventually he will drop off and/or Nadal and Djokovic will continue to win majors. Federer will see his records broken time after time.
 
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THUNDERVOLLEY

THUNDERVOLLEY

G.O.A.T.
zep said:
I have to say, many Federer fans you see on the first two pages have almost abandoned this forum lol. Goes to show how much the slam race matters to them.
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Yes, and they used to use that as a club to beat on anyone supporting two other players not named Federer, as having "no chance" to reach what they defined as GOAT status by majors count alone.
 
B

BorgTheGOAT

Professional
THUNDERVOLLEY said:
You see where the worst of Federer's fans go: when they thought Federer had a majors count that could not be reached--that was their criteria for crowning him GOAT, but the second Nadal was moving in, they either posted threads (like one recently deleted, claiming $16 was his last), or won this year's FO/USO, now the goal posts are moved in predictable fashion. They are living in absolute terror that Nadal will not only tie Federer's majors count one day, but will pass it. They set the criteria, now they have to live with it: Nadal will be the GOAT once he passes Federer.
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It is completely ridiculous to demand being 5 slams ahead no matter what players we are talking. If Fed was from another era where slams were not the be all end all and/or was way ahead in other metrics I COULD MAYBE understand (for instance I can still see Borg or Laver > Djokovic due to not being really able to compare their eras), however let’s face it all big three played under the conditions that the slam record was the most important metric to determine greatness and all three are trying badly to get this record. On top, Nadal is ahead in H2H and masters and IF he gets to 25 slams - which of course won’t happen- he will beat the weeks at No 1 record or at least gets so close that the difference does not really matter. So no matter how you spin it, it is completely stupid to say he would need 25 slams.
 
Mike Sams

Mike Sams

Legend
TheGhostOfAgassi said:
Maybe Novak and Rafa should play Basel this year then, to prepare. :unsure: Not sure what Federer would think of that :p
It will be a higher bounce in AO since Basel not a huge stadium and indoors.
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Federer has no problem against Nadal on fast hards in the smaller tourneys. Djokovic has had problems with Federer on fast hards (Dubai and Cincy) more often than not.
 
Mike Sams

Mike Sams

Legend
THUNDERVOLLEY said:
You see where the worst of Federer's fans go: when they thought Federer had a majors count that could not be reached--that was their criteria for crowning him GOAT, but the second Nadal was moving in, they either posted threads (like one recently deleted, claiming $16 was his last), or won this year's FO/USO, now the goal posts are moved in predictable fashion. They are living in absolute terror that Nadal will not only tie Federer's majors count one day, but will pass it. They set the criteria, now they have to live with it: Nadal will be the GOAT once he passes Federer.
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How long do you think Nadal can hold off Djokovic?
#17 possibly coming in 4 months. Djokovic's domain..
 
DSH

DSH

Legend
zep said:
I have to say, many Federer fans you see on the first two pages have almost abandoned this forum lol. Goes to show how much the slam race matters to them. Anyway, I still think Federer can add ~2 majors to his total and that will be very tough for Rafa. 2020 will be key, he has to win at least 1 next year and with Djokovic's uncertainty it's absolutely possible, especially at AO and Wimbledon. I am hearing that Craig Tiley is importing the Basel surface to help Federer. That will be a massive boost to his chances. Plus now that they do backstage draws at AO, Fed will get a US Open like draw till semi.

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Does not matter anymore!
Basel: 5 matches, best of 3 sets, indoor conditions.
AO: 7 matches, best of 5 sets, outdoor conditions (at least in the Majority of the mactches).

At 38, even with the help of Tiley's, the Swiss will no longer be able to reach the last instances of a Major.
 
THUNDERVOLLEY

THUNDERVOLLEY

G.O.A.T.
Mike Sams said:
How long do you think Nadal can hold off Djokovic?
#17 possibly coming in 4 months. Djokovic's domain..
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Who knows, but the issue here is Nadal being close to catching, then the likelihood of passing Federer's majors count. If Nadal has another two or three years like this one, he might be out of reach for Djokovic, as I see Nadal being somewhat more motivated to go on than Djokovic.
 
Mike Sams

Mike Sams

Legend
DSH said:
Does not matter anymore!
Basel: 5 matches, best of 3 sets, indoor conditions.
AO: 7 matches, best of 5 sets, outdoor conditions (at least in the Majority of the mactches).

At 38, even with the help of Tiley's, the Swiss will no longer be able to reach the last instances of a Major.
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Would you be willing to bet your entire life savings on that? You realize he reached the semis of French and finals of Wimbledon only a couple of months ago, right?
 
Mike Sams

Mike Sams

Legend
If Djokovic goes into his 2011 and 2015 mode and wins AO2020 and starts rampaging through the season, the Nadal fans on here are gonna go into hiding....again. :-D They'll be praying for Stanimal 2.0 to emerge and stop the Cyborg.
 
beast of mallorca

beast of mallorca

G.O.A.T.
Mike Sams said:
If Djokovic goes into his 2011 and 2015 mode and wins AO2020 and starts rampaging through the season, the Nadal fans on here are gonna go into hiding....again. :-D They'll be praying for Stanimal 2.0 to emerge and stop the Cyborg.
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All of the things you people are bringing up are mere guess work. Nadal might not even reach 20 or Djoker 17. Injuries or other issues for both may happen. It's pointless.
God only knows.

So, just enjoy the show people!!!!
 
Mike Sams

Mike Sams

Legend
THUNDERVOLLEY said:
Who knows, but the issue here is Nadal being close to catching, then the likelihood of passing Federer's majors count. If Nadal has another two or three years like this one, he might be out of reach for Djokovic, as I see Nadal being somewhat more motivated to go on than Djokovic.
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AO2020 is probably the most anticipated event in the history of tennis. If Djoker gets #17, the whole conversation likely changes and all the momentum might be on his side once again. If Nadal gets #20, it's historical and all eyes will be on RG. If Federer gets #21, it could possibly take some of the wind out of Nadal's and Novak's sails. Then there's Stanimal who looks like he's about 100% in full health and AO suits his game. He could get #4. After him there's Medvedev who looks like he's ready for a Slam. Could be surprises in store elsewhere too.
 
Mike Sams

Mike Sams

Legend
beast of mallorca said:
All of the things you people are bringing up are mere guess work. Nadal might not even reach 20 or Djoker 17. Injuries or other issues for both may happen. It's pointless.
God only knows.

So, just enjoy the show people!!!!
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We're witnessing a time in a sport which may never come again in our lifetimes. 3 legends all competing for history at the same time and all in a race to be the greatest of all time. It's exciting!!! :D
 
L

Lastmanstanding

New User
D.Nalby12 said:
I mean truly safe from Nadal? Djokovic is out of race now. So if Nadal fails, his record going to stand for a decade at least (might stand for many decades to come). But Toni just declared their intention to fight for record till the end. As far as Nadal remains lock for FO, I don't see it being unrealistic goal.

How many Slams in your opinion Federer needs to get so there will be no threat of Nadal equalling/surpassing it? Vote.

I say 23.
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Its over. Nadal will have it and then some. If he stays fit Nadal will aim for Serena total
 
L

Lastmanstanding

New User
Mike Sams said:
We're witnessing a time in a sport which may never come again in our lifetimes. 3 legends all competing for history at the same time and all in a race to be the greatest of all time. It's exciting!!! :D
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Not a race anymore. Nadal now GOAT after US Open. Djokovic obviously still in the hunt but presumably the younger players will be bigger threats from now on.
 
Imperator

Imperator

Hall of Fame
Lastmanstanding said:
Not a race anymore. Nadal now GOAT after US Open. Djokovic obviously still in the hunt but presumably the younger players will be bigger threats from now on.
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I don't know what it will take for people to stop thinking the most recent GS win seals the deal, that's a false impression. Just purely psychological.
 
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