when is a foot fault a foot fault???

wow you can be ahead of your peers if you know this, apparently even johnny mac did not know the rule, they had to bring the rule book and officials out during the safin and spadea match, here's how i understand it, a foot fault is consider if and when you start your serving motion and end up in a serve and any part of your foot is touching or across the baseline or if it touches the imaginary little middle line hash mark then you are guilty of a foot fault, now the tricky part is when does a serving motion technically starts, the officials said when the hands, i guess the racket or tossing hand starts to move that's when the serving motion technically starts.
 

crazylevity

Hall of Fame
CORRECTION!!!

A foot fault is when the foot touches the baseline during the service motion before the server makes CONTACT with the ball.
 

kairosntx

Professional
CORRECTION!!!

A foot fault is when the foot touches the baseline during the service motion before the server makes CONTACT with the ball.


I guess you didn't see the Safin/Spadea match??? Your definitioin is limited to one facet of the foot fault rule. As the OP said, If you begin your service motion and any part of your foot/feet are across the center has mark (although clearly behind the baseline) if you continue your service motion and make contact with the ball, it is a foot fault. It does not matter where your feet are at the point of contact when discussing this aspect of the foot fault.

It was amazing to hear the discussion because nobody knew the rule. They did not believe the definition given by the tournament referee and had to look it up before they believed the rule.
 

crazylevity

Hall of Fame
^^^ But that's only logical. that's why people serve on only one side of the court. I don't see why it's so hard to believe a foot fault was called.

To be honest, I did not watch the match...I'm not in the US, and even if I did I wouldn't hear McEnroe et al crowing about it. But it makes sense, no? If you're supposed to serving from deuce court, your feet move out of the deuce side, it's a foot fault. Simple.
 
^^^ But that's only logical. that's why people serve on only one side of the court. I don't see why it's so hard to believe a foot fault was called.

To be honest, I did not watch the match...I'm not in the US, and even if I did I wouldn't hear McEnroe et al crowing about it. But it makes sense, no? If you're supposed to serving from deuce court, your feet move out of the deuce side, it's a foot fault. Simple.

You are right, in this case, safin was serving from the deuce side and if you imagine extending the center mark outside of the court his back foot was touching the line when he began his serving motion.
 

vive le beau jeu !

Talk Tennis Guru
the foot fault rules according to the rulebook

thought it was a good opportunity to bring back the rules about the foot faults... :)

18. FOOT FAULT
During the service motion, the server shall not:
a. Change position by walking or running, although slight movements of the feet are permitted; or
b. Touch the baseline or the court with either foot; or
c. Touch the area outside the imaginary extension of the sideline with either foot; or
d. Touch the imaginary extension of the centre mark with either foot.

If the server breaks this rule it is a “Foot Fault”.

Case 1: In a singlesmatch, is the server allowed to serve standing behind the part of the baseline between the singles sideline and the doubles sideline?
Decision: No.
(didn't know that rule !)
Case 2: Is the server allowed to have one or both feet off the ground?
Decision: Yes.
(this is for the battistone bros !) ;)
Early Foot fault Call
Case: The baseline umpire calls a foot fault on the server prior to him hitting a first serve. The server continues with his motion and hits the serve into the net.
Decision: First serve awarded. It is not a foot fault until the ball has been struck. Therefore, the call is erroneous and the line umpire has hindered the server.
from: http://www.atptennis.com/en/players/2008_Rulebook_rev0708.pdf
 

pound cat

G.O.A.T.
NY times article about the match..

" He (safin)used an obscenity to express his displeasure in the post-match interview.

Errr ...since when is Pis*ed off an obscenity??

The video of his interview is quite entertaining in a safinesque way.
 

Fedace

Banned
Foot fault is a foot fault when you are good enough to play in Challenger level tournament and above.
 
I actually had the same exact call made on me during a big match back in juniors. It was a finals match so they brought an umpire out for the entire match. A couple of games in the umpire started calling a foot fault on me EVERY TIME I served. I had no clue what I was doing, I moved way back from the line and everything but she kept calling a foot fault on me. I repeatedly asked her what I was doing to cause a foot fault but she refused to tell me. After the match I was told that my back foot was crossing the center hash mark, but I don't understand why I couldn't be told that during the match.
 
So let me get this right, serve starts when one tosses up the ball and ends when the tennis ball is struck?? Anytime in between, if the foot touches the center or base line, its a foot fault??
 

diggler

Hall of Fame
I actually had the same exact call made on me during a big match back in juniors. It was a finals match so they brought an umpire out for the entire match. A couple of games in the umpire started calling a foot fault on me EVERY TIME I served. I had no clue what I was doing, I moved way back from the line and everything but she kept calling a foot fault on me. I repeatedly asked her what I was doing to cause a foot fault but she refused to tell me. After the match I was told that my back foot was crossing the center hash mark, but I don't understand why I couldn't be told that during the match.


I can't believe they didn't tell you why. That defies logic. Like playing a game but they don't tell you the rules.
 

diggler

Hall of Fame
So let me get this right, serve starts when one tosses up the ball and ends when the tennis ball is struck?? Anytime in between, if the foot touches the center or base line, its a foot fault??

I think the service motion starts before the ball is struck. i.e. you've stopped bouncing the ball and you've started the motion (a judgment call really). You can't touch the lines or the imaginary centre line from the time you start your motion.
 

diggler

Hall of Fame
Ok, really dumb question. What if you have pole vaults for shoes (weighted down), you lean into the court and smash aces from just next to the net?
 

Lobber

New User
During the service motion, the server shall not:
a. Change position by walking or running, although slight movements of the feet are permitted;

Going back to the Battistone(sp?) Bros, I've never seen them in action, but understand that they have a volleyball style serve, which I assume means they toss the ball up well in front and run in, jump and hit the ball.

Is this then not a foot fault per the rule mentioned above?
 

ClarkC

Hall of Fame
NY times article about the match..

" He (safin)used an obscenity to express his displeasure in the post-match interview.

Errr ...since when is Pis*ed off an obscenity??

Ask yourself. You used an asterisk in the word for a reason, didn't you?
 

ClarkC

Hall of Fame
During the service motion, the server shall not:
a. Change position by walking or running, although slight movements of the feet are permitted;

Going back to the Battistone(sp?) Bros, I've never seen them in action, but understand that they have a volleyball style serve, which I assume means they toss the ball up well in front and run in, jump and hit the ball.

Is this then not a foot fault per the rule mentioned above?

They don't have a running start, just a jump into the air.
 

coloskier

Legend
So let me get this right, serve starts when one tosses up the ball and ends when the tennis ball is struck?? Anytime in between, if the foot touches the center or base line, its a foot fault??

To be exact, the service motion starts the minute you either start the toss, or move the racket from a motionless position, whichever comes first, and continues until you strike the ball. Any foot infraction during that entire time is considered a foot fault.
 

LPShanet

Banned
To be exact, the service motion starts the minute you either start the toss, or move the racket from a motionless position, whichever comes first, and continues until you strike the ball. Any foot infraction during that entire time is considered a foot fault.

There is no debating the rules themselves, only the discretion of the linespeople. While it's easy to say that all rules can and will be called at any time, this simply isn't the reality (in tennis or any other professional sport). The officials make decisions when they make calls, not just about whether a rule was broken, but how it affects the match. Just as foul calls in an NBA game aren't made in a petty way at important times, and just as umpires in tennis try not to toss out players on random code violations, there is flexibility.

Before you all flame this post, let me present a related fact. In MANY pro service motions, players start with their front foot touching the baseline, then rotate the foot away as they start moving to avoid touching the line during the actual swing. In the spirit of Safin's foot fault, all of these would be foot faults, yet I've never seen it called. Mathieu does this in his motion. In yesterday's match, he and Grosjean BOTH did this almost every serve and yet were not called for it, nor have I ever seen either player called for it in the past.

Similarly, it was not the first time Safin had crossed the center line slightly by accident, but it is the first time he was called for it. Why did the official suddenly decide to call it in a way that decided the set? Bad judgement. While Safin isn't entitled to a warning, it is actually common practice for an official to take a player aside during a changeover and say something quietly about such a thing before having it change the entire outcome of the match. That's just good officiating. No one wants a silly pettiness to affect the outcome of a match.
 

elWyatt

New User
Foot Fault rule

I actually had the same exact call made on me during a big match back in juniors. It was a finals match so they brought an umpire out for the entire match. A couple of games in the umpire started calling a foot fault on me EVERY TIME I served. I had no clue what I was doing, I moved way back from the line and everything but she kept calling a foot fault on me. I repeatedly asked her what I was doing to cause a foot fault but she refused to tell me. After the match I was told that my back foot was crossing the center hash mark, but I don't understand why I couldn't be told that during the match.

The rule on foot faults has changed quite a bit over the last 50 years, but using the current rules, this may not have been a real foot fault. The rule cares not whether your foot (shoe) crosses the line, or its extension, as long as the foot does not touch it. The rule also allows you to ask the official how the foot fault occurred, and the official must give a brief response.
 

cknobman

Legend
US Open seems to be the tournament where the line judges seem to call the most foot faults

True. After watching the video replays of the Roddick foot faults last night it makes me wonder if the other tournaments should be making more calls.
 
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