When should the new can of balls be opened?

[Klaus]

Just a mundane question. In league doubles play, my first season, the opposing team would open up the balls, we would warm up with them, and start our match.

In recent singles matches I have had, my opponents and I have used "warm-up" balls from our tennis bags, warmed up with those, and then my opponent would open up the can, and invariably I would serve first. Of course, the first several serves are going out.

I would rather hit the new balls a few times before I serve it at the beginning of the match. What is the rule?

 

[Cindysphinx]

I thought you were to use the new balls in the warm-up. That is what the pros do.

I've never had anyone want to warm up with anything but the new balls. Some players even seem to balk if you take a few extras out of your bag.

 

[amarone]

You warm up with new balls - otherwise it would be like warming up on a clay court immediately before a match on a hard court.

The USTA Regulations state:

4. Number of balls. New balls shall be used to start a match commencing with the warm-up.

 

[Klaus]

OK, now I understand

These guys have been screwing with me, letting me serve with brand new balls. Thanks very much for the information.

Klaus

 

[Wakenslam]

Yeah, you got served! :twisted:

In my opinion, the only times a new can of balls should be opened in amateur league/tournament play;

1. At the beginning of the warm up.

2. If more than one ball is lost. (Hit over fence into water, onto highway, etc.)

3. If one ball is lost early in the match, and both teams agree to open a new can.

4. If you have really dead balls and both teams agree to open a new can at the beginning of the third set.

 

[RedWeb]

I always open two cans. One can of balls before the warmup. One can of whoopass when the match starts.

 

[woodrow1029]

Yeah, you got served! :twisted:

In my opinion, the only times a new can of balls should be opened in amateur league/tournament play;

1. At the beginning of the warm up.

2. If more than one ball is lost. (Hit over fence into water, onto highway, etc.)

3. If one ball is lost early in the match, and both teams agree to open a new can.

4. If you have really dead balls and both teams agree to open a new can at the beginning of the third set.

You can only replace a lost or broken ball with a NEW ball within 2 games of the new balls being put in play. Also, the WARMUP COUNTS AS 2 GAMES AS FAR AS THE WEAR OF THE BALL GOES. If you lose a ball after the first point of the match, the ball shall be replaced with a ball of similar wear.

 

[kylebarendrick]

That's not often an option in a league match. If you lose a ball, your only choices tend to be: (1) open another can of new balls, or (2) use whatever is in someone's bag, generally from a can that was opened prior to WW2.

League matches don't count games for using new balls - the same balls are generally used for the entire match unless the home team decides to break out a new can for a full third set.

 

[Cindysphinx]

You can only replace a lost or broken ball with a NEW ball within 2 games of the new balls being put in play. Also, the WARMUP COUNTS AS 2 GAMES AS FAR AS THE WEAR OF THE BALL GOES. If you lose a ball after the first point of the match, the ball shall be replaced with a ball of similar wear.

Pardon?

This applies to USTA league unofficiated play?

So if we break or lose a ball in game 3, we're stuck? If we lose a ball in game 3 and game 4, then what?

I'm confused.

 

[woodrow1029]

Pardon?

This applies to USTA league unofficiated play?

So if we break or lose a ball in game 3, we're stuck? If we lose a ball in game 3 and game 4, then what?

I'm confused.

If you break or lose a ball in the warmup, you replace it with a new ball. If you break or lose it once the match starts, you replace it with a ball of similar wear.

When you change balls for the third set, if you break or lose a ball in the first 2 games of the third set, you replace it with a new ball. If you break or lose it after the first point of the third game, you replace it with a ball of similar wear.

 

[woodrow1029]

That's not often an option in a league match. If you lose a ball, your only choices tend to be: (1) open another can of new balls, or (2) use whatever is in someone's bag, generally from a can that was opened prior to WW2.

League matches don't count games for using new balls - the same balls are generally used for the entire match unless the home team decides to break out a new can for a full third set.

Fair enough, I am just letting you know what the proper procedure is as far as replacing lost/broken balls.

 

[Rob_C]

Just a mundane question. In league doubles play, my first season, the opposing team would open up the balls, we would warm up with them, and start our match.

In recent singles matches I have had, my opponents and I have used "warm-up" balls from our tennis bags, warmed up with those, and then my opponent would open up the can, and invariably I would serve first. Of course, the first several serves are going out.

I would rather hit the new balls a few times before I serve it at the beginning of the match. What is the rule?

Serving with new balls is normally an advantage for the server. In tournaments, when people split sets, they normally get a new can for the start of the third. Is that a disadvantage then also?? On tour, they switch after the 1st 7, then every 9 games. Is that a disadvantage for the server then also???

Maybe you havent warmed your serve up enough??

 

[Xisbum]

Never understood why the 4-ball cans didn't catch on, especially in dubs. Makes sense in warmup if each player has the same number of balls to hit; should also keep "dead" time - chasing down a single ball, etc. - to a minimum.

Just sayin'.

 

[PushyPushster]

If you lose a ball after the first point of the match, the ball shall be replaced with a ball of similar wear.

If by "similar wear" you mean "fuzzy" then we absolutely abide by that requirement. In the lower levels of USTA/ALTA tennis, we have our own rules for dealing with the common situation of losing the freak'in tennis balls.

- Team A hits ball into Lake, then Team A has to open a new can at next change-over.

 

[Cindysphinx]

Geez, we'd be there all day trying to agree on what was similar wear is. A bunch of people bouncing, squeezing and fondling balls to find a good one? Blech. Just open a new can, discard the prior set, and play on.

 

[woodrow1029]

Geez, we'd be there all day trying to agree on what was similar wear is. A bunch of people bouncing, squeezing and fondling balls to find a good one? Blech. Just open a new can, discard the prior set, and play on.

We all know that you play by your own rules "Ms. my teammate hit a ball at me at practice."

Similar wear, not exactly the same..

 

[raiden031]

Unfortunately alot of people don't really follow the procedures too well when it comes to league or ladder matches. Here has been my experience regarding some of the typical procedures:

90% of players do not bother doing the coin toss / racquet spin until after the warmup

75% of players take a break during the first changeover of a set

20% of players will warmup with older balls and then open the new can when the match starts

 

[Cindysphinx]

We all know that you play by your own rules "Ms. my teammate hit a ball at me at practice."

Similar wear, not exactly the same..

Aw, come on. What have I ever done to you to deserve the snark, Woodrow?

 

[woodrow1029]

Aw, come on. What have I ever done to you to deserve the snark, Woodrow?

been a bad day. sorry. didn't mean it.

 

[Cindysphinx]

been a bad day. sorry. didn't mean it.

:: smooch ::

 

[jc4.0]

In a league match, we always spin or flip a coin first, settle which side we're playing first, then immediately open the new can of balls. Otherwise, the first server would have an advantage.

If it's a friendly match, aw, who cares. Don't be so serious. sometimes we never open the new can.

 

[Wakenslam]

Isn't that the whole point of the spin? To determine who gets to serve, thereby gaining an advantage?

 

[r2473]

When should the new can of balls be opened?

With the people I play with, whenever I arrive and grab can out of my bag.

 

[PushyPushster]

Isn't that the whole point of the spin? To determine who gets to serve, thereby gaining an advantage?

No. I almost always choose to receive even if I win the toss. I know others who do the same.

 

[amarone]

No. I almost always choose to receive even if I win the toss. I know others who do the same.

As recommended by Brad Gilbert in Winning Ugly. I wonder if anyone has ever analyzed the frequency of which games result in service breaks. To me, it seems as if the first game of the match has a disproportionate frequency.

 

[PushyPushster]

As recommended by Brad Gilbert in Winning Ugly.

Bingo - bonus points for you. It's an excellent philosophy and it works. My doubles partner and I recently started receiving first, and it has already paid dividends (its always paid dividends for me in singles).

For anyone who hasn't read the book, Mr. Gilbert recommends receiving first for several reasons. The one that resonates with me, though, is the idea that nobody in league tennis warms up their serve properly. You just don't have the time. So even if you're facing someone whose serve is a weapon, your best chance to break that serve will be in the very first game. We played a doubles match last weekend against just such a player and we got two freebie double-faults in the very first game, breaking his serve immediately.

Anyhow, this may not work at the higher levels of the game but it works great at the 3.5 - 4.0 level.

 

[Wakenslam]

No. I almost always choose to receive even if I win the toss. I know others who do the same.

Perhaps I should study this tactic more. It seems that in my singles matches breaks are common. The last doubles match I played had only 3 breaks of serve in 3 sets.

Regardless, winning the spin does give you an advantage, and a new can of balls should not be opened right before the first point.

 

[Cindysphinx]

Bingo - bonus points for you. It's an excellent philosophy and it works. My doubles partner and I recently started receiving first, and it has already paid dividends (its always paid dividends for me in singles).

For anyone who hasn't read the book, Mr. Gilbert recommends receiving first for several reasons. The one that resonates with me, though, is the idea that nobody in league tennis warms up their serve properly. You just don't have the time. So even if you're facing someone whose serve is a weapon, your best chance to break that serve will be in the very first game. We played a doubles match last weekend against just such a player and we got two freebie double-faults in the very first game, breaking his serve immediately.

Anyhow, this may not work at the higher levels of the game but it works great at the 3.5 - 4.0 level.

Nope, I elect to serve.

In a close match, it is likely that the teams will stay on serve until late in a set. Whoever serves second has that extra pressure of serving to stay in the set, and people will definitely tighten up and can be easily broken.

I also think it is less likely that my opponents will break me in the very first game, as they haven't yet had a good look at my FH.

 

[PushyPushster]

Nope, I elect to serve.

Each to his own, but you might want to give it a shot sometime just for kicks. Since my serve is a 35mph lollipop, it's not like I'm abandoning my strength or anything. Still, I've gotten a lot of first game breaks against people with good serves who just don't quite have it together at the very start of a match.

The second benefit to doing that is psychological. Electing to receive - which is basically throwing down the gauntlet and saying, "show me what you got", and then getting an immediate break, can really take the wind out of your opponents sails.

 

[SChamp]

Nope, I elect to serve.

In a close match, it is likely that the teams will stay on serve until late in a set. Whoever serves second has that extra pressure of serving to stay in the set, and people will definitely tighten up and can be easily broken.

I also think it is less likely that my opponents will break me in the very first game, as they haven't yet had a good look at my FH.

Sorry, but that makes no sense to me. If you look at it in it's mathematical form, the odds of being broken or breaking serve are the same for every game, 50% (you either hold/break or you don't). I'd say that the pressure to hold serve in the first game of the match is just as great or more, than the pressure to hold serve to stay in the set/match, but that's purely a matter of opinion. Me, I'd much rather have to hold to stay in the set/match after I'm all nice and loose rather than hold in the first game of the match. Who wants to start the match off being broken? Now, if you've played a particular person enough and you are aware of his/her weaknesses, such as getting nervous near the end, then your belief that there is "extra pressure" could hold true.

As to your belief that your opponent hasn't gotten a good look at your FH, do you not think they are paying attention during the warmup? If you say yes they have been paying attention, but I haven't unleashed it yet, then I'd counter that by saying how good is your FH going to be in the first game if you haven't even gone after one yet in the warmup? If it's good enough where you just start ripping winners right out of the gate, then congrats on successfully sandbagging and I wish you luck on the tour.

Each to his own, but you might want to give it a shot sometime just for kicks. Since my serve is a 35mph lollipop, it's not like I'm abandoning my strength or anything. Still, I've gotten a lot of first game breaks against people with good serves who just don't quite have it together at the very start of a match.

The second benefit to doing that is psychological. Electing to receive - which is basically throwing down the gauntlet and saying, "show me what you got", and then getting an immediate break, can really take the wind out of your opponents sails.

Going by the book, serving to open the match is the more aggressive play. I see what you're saying with the "gauntlet" comment, and I agree. Going against "the book" is gutsy-er and thus could be considered as more aggressive. But then you get into one of those "Princess Bride" situations where I know you're going to do something, but I also know that you know that I know, and then it's a big mess.

 

[Wakenslam]

The biggest reason I never elect to receive first is that doing so makes a player appear unsure of their ability to hold serve. I know that whenever I lose the spin and the opposing player or team elects to receive, my eyes light up. For me it's a huge mental advantage. The other side has effectively already told me they think I am a better player by trying this tactic.

 

[Cindysphinx]

Sorry, but that makes no sense to me. If you look at it in it's mathematical form, the odds of being broken or breaking serve are the same for every game, 50% (you either hold/break or you don't). I'd say that the pressure to hold serve in the first game of the match is just as great or more, than the pressure to hold serve to stay in the set/match, but that's purely a matter of opinion.

It isn't about science. It's about emotion and human frailty.

If you are broken in the first game of the match, you have the entire set to break back. If you are broken while serving at 5-5, you have one more shot to stay in the match. If you are broken at 5-6, it's lights out. I think that if Roddick had served first in the Wimby final against Federer, he might have pulled it off, as serving first is an advantage late in a set that is tied.

As to your belief that your opponent hasn't gotten a good look at your FH, do you not think they are paying attention during the warmup?

Heh, heh. I was saying that my FH stinks, not that it is some fierce weapon.

 

[PushyPushster]

But then you get into one of those "Princess Bride" situations where I know you're going to do something, but I also know that you know that I know, and then it's a big mess.

Inconceivable!

The biggest reason I never elect to receive first is that doing so makes a player appear unsure of their ability to hold serve. I know that whenever I lose the spin and the opposing player or team elects to receive, my eyes light up. For me it's a huge mental advantage. The other side has effectively already told me they think I am a better player by trying this tactic.

Interesting. For me, it's just the opposite. When I'm warming up with a guy who's really putting some stick on the serve then I hope (more than usual) that I'll win the toss just so I can elect to receive. It's saying to him, "yeah, I see what you got and I don't care. Let's see if you're as good as you think you are." It's a quick shot of adrenaline and puts me right mindframe immediately.

Regardless of psychology, though, I completely agree with Gilbert about when you're most likely to break someone's serve. A 5-10 minute warm-up, of which just a few minutes will be devoted to your serve, doesn't do the trick for most people. My chances for a break are statistically higher in those first 3 games, so it's just intelligently playing the percentages, in my opinion.