When The Ratings Go Wrong!?!? (Share Your Best Example)

[Raiden.Kaminari]

Here's a good one: http://tinyurl.com/2dcofj

5.0 guy with 4 years of matches in the computer plays 10.0 mixed, goes 9-1, including matches at the state and sectional tournaments.

Based on this record, he gets dropped 2 levels, to 4.0, by the almighty computer.


Yes, he also played 9.5 combo, but in the Southern section that doesn't count towards your rating. A policy which confuses me greatly: surely, if the computer can come up with meaningful ranking for mixed doubles results, it can surely do so for combo doubles.

How can an accurate algorithm even come up with this crap? He was winning at 10.0 mixed and he hardly lost at 5.0 in 2006? This has to be a joke!!!
Hopefully this gets nipped real quick by Southern, contact Phil Meadors the head of Southern Leagues.

The problem is that he only plays mixed and combo league. The last time he played adult league was 2005.

He may have used mixed league to help get his rating adjusted, which is why so many people believe that mixed leagues are out of whack.

 

[Raiden.Kaminari]

A socal team went to 5.0 nationals (made it to semis) in 2005.
Several players (who won almost all their matches), appeal down
and play 4.5 in 2007.

Doesn't seem that bad compared to some of the other examples
listed. Ultimately it's all for fun and a chance to play so probably not
that big of a deal unless you take it really seriously.

Yes, SoCal 4.5 is way out of whack right now. And like you said, you need to develop an attitude that it is all for fun.

 

[volleyman]

The problem is that he only plays mixed and combo league. The last time he played adult league was 2005.

He may have used mixed league to help get his rating adjusted, which is why so many people believe that mixed leagues are out of whack.

I don't know the guy personally, but I have friends that do, and they say he's not happy with the double drop. I get the feeling that he wasn't trying to manipulate his rating.

Around here, we have lots of people who, by choice or necessity, only play one or two of our three seasons: Spring (USTA), Summer(Mixed) and Fall(Combo). His skipping of the USTA league in the spring should not be read, absent any other information, as an attempt to drop his rating.

Frankly, I think this shows the absolute folly of generating rankings from mixed doubles play.

 

[JLyon]

I don't know the guy personally, but I have friends that do, and they say he's not happy with the double drop. I get the feeling that he wasn't trying to manipulate his rating.

Around here, we have lots of people who, by choice or necessity, only play one or two of our three seasons: Spring (USTA), Summer(Mixed) and Fall(Combo). His skipping of the USTA league in the spring should not be read, absent any other information, as an attempt to drop his rating.

Frankly, I think this shows the absolute folly of generating rankings from mixed doubles play.

The rating is a folly because he was playing 10.0 MXD and won 90%, you either have to be a 5.5/4.5 mix or 5.0/5.0 mix to compete and you must be great to win that percentage, so there is an obvious glitch to give him a 4.0 rating for winning 10.0 MXD matches as it is just not possible to have a 4.0/6.0 combo.

 

[Raiden.Kaminari]

I don't know the guy personally, but I have friends that do, and they say he's not happy with the double drop. I get the feeling that he wasn't trying to manipulate his rating.

Around here, we have lots of people who, by choice or necessity, only play one or two of our three seasons: Spring (USTA), Summer(Mixed) and Fall(Combo). His skipping of the USTA league in the spring should not be read, absent any other information, as an attempt to drop his rating.

Frankly, I think this shows the absolute folly of generating rankings from mixed doubles play.

This is why some sections are no longer doing mixed exclusive ratings.

Regarding the aforementioned player, he should appeal to have his rating raised up and not play at the lower NTRP.

Also, nothing prevents players from playing tournaments, which would have overridden the mixed exclusive rating.

 

[BiGGieStuFF]

This is more of a complaint of ratings not disqualifying someone when they are clearly playing below their level according to the computer.

tri-level was held in one of the cities in our state. The tournament was held 2 months before the end of the year ratings came out and 4 of the player on the team ended up getting bumped. 2 3.5 to 4.0's and two 4.0's to 4.5. Of course these players are still eligible to play in sectionals under their lower rating. That just totally stinks in my opinion. I think i could handle maybe one player on the team getting bumped but damn 4? Talk about total disadvantage for their opponents.

 

[AndrewD]

Top that!!! :shock:

Jack,

Last year (as of 9/28/06), after beating Vince Spadea, winning a set off Blake and Nadal plus winning two Challenger events Sam Querrey was rated as a 5.5 by your USTA system. LOL

 

[tenniko]

Yes, SoCal 4.5 is way out of whack right now. And like you said, you need to develop an attitude that it is all for fun.

I concur. When I played singles tourney 4.5 in SD, I had to play against a guy who (later I found out) played opens and 5.5s the very last year. Was a tough fight (maybe I sandbagged too?) but I lost.

But then, he lost like 1 and 0 the next round...

Granted it was one of the bigger tournaments, but that's saying something.

 

[Jack the Hack]

Jack,

Last year (as of 9/28/06), after beating Vince Spadea, winning a set off Blake and Nadal plus winning two Challenger events Sam Querrey was rated as a 5.5 by your USTA system. LOL

Too bad there isn't a screen shot of that one. However, I suspect that the 5.5 rating you saw was his 2005 year end. Since the information you posted was of 9/28/06, his success in 2006 would not factor into his rating until the 2006 year end list that came out in November. (In other words, since Querrey doesn't play USTA League tennis, there would be no "dynamic disqualification" or any other event to move him up from 5.5 until the end of year computer calculation).

In the 2006 end of year ratings, Sam Querrey was rated 7.0 (T), as he should be:

http://tennislink.usta.com/leagues/...=quer&FirstName=sam&SearchType=W&submit2=+Go+

Despite this, I think you could rightly argue whether he should not have been a 5.5 after the end of 2005. That year, he made the finals of a Futures event, won a couple matches in Challenger events, played the US Open doubles draw, and was ranked around #622 in the world when the ratings came out. All this was on top of his junior success that year, where he won several big international events, was in the top 10 of the junior ITF rankings. Based on all of this, he should have been a 6.0 or 6.5 in the 2005 end of year ratings.

Actually, I already knew about Querrey's situation when you mentioned him. As I said, my friend and I are TennisLink nerds, and we noted earlier this year that Querrey is one of the few people that is actually rated 7.0 in the TennisLink computer. Most people at his level do not have a USTA membership or an official rating in the computer because they are playing international pro events (as members of the ITF and ATP). Therefore, finding an officially rated 7.0 in the computer is very rare!

 

[onehandbh]

...
Most people at his level do not have a USTA membership or an official rating in the computer because they are playing international pro events (as members of the ITF and ATP). Therefore, finding an officially rated 7.0 in the computer is very rare!

What do you think Chris Wettengel should be rated?
He's rated a 5.5, but is ranked in the 600-700's in the last
couple years and has even won a match or two in a challenger
tournament.

 

[Raiden.Kaminari]

What do you think Chris Wettengel should be rated?
He's rated a 5.5, but is ranked in the 600-700's in the last
couple years and has even won a match or two in a challenger
tournament.

The computer put that as his minimum rating, but he should be at 6.0 instead if USTA is ever going to fix DNTRP.

 

[onehandbh]

^^^^ Rating is most likely from his results in playing socal open tournaments
(and ones in other areas?).

 

[Jack the Hack]

The computer put that as his minimum rating, but he should be at 6.0 instead if USTA is ever going to fix DNTRP.

I don't know the details of this particular individual, but I agree with Raiden that somebody that has an ATP (or WTA) ranking in the 500-700 range is probably at least a 6.0 if the USTA was following it's own definitions.

I drilled down into Chris Wettengel's history a small bit, and it looks like the only time he tried to play USTA League was for a 5.5 team back in 2004. That team won the National title, but it doesn't look like he played any matches for them.

When you get to the 5.5 range and beyond, most of the players in this level never play USTA League. Subsequently, their ratings don't really matter that much. Only when a player of this caliber falls into the 4.5 or 5.0 range through quirks in the computer does this system become a total travesty. Like a guy in his 40s who played at Wimbledon and who has won a National title every year for the past half decade getting rated 4.5... :-?

 

[onehandbh]

I don't know the details of this particular individual, but I agree with Raiden that somebody that has an ATP (or WTA) ranking in the 500-700 range is probably at least a 6.0 if the USTA was following it's own definitions.

I drilled down into Chris Wettengel's history a small bit, and it looks like the only time he tried to play USTA League was for a 5.5 team back in 2004. That team won the National title, but it doesn't look like he played any matches for them.

When you get to the 5.5 range and beyond, most of the players in this level never play USTA League. Subsequently, their ratings don't really matter that much. Only when a player of this caliber falls into the 4.5 or 5.0 range through quirks in the computer does this system become a total travesty. Like a guy in his 40s who played at Wimbledon and who has won a National title every year for the past half decade getting rated 4.5... :-?

It can still have an impact b/c lots of league players also play open tournaments where
they would run into guys playing futures. That one guy you cited as an example who
was rated 4.5 and winning open tournaments would have a huge effect of lowering a
bunch of people he beat.