When to stop adding weight to main lifts for tennis performance.

[J011yroger]

I set some arbitrary goals of 1 x bodyweight bench, 1.5 x bodyweight squat, 1.75 x bodyweight DL, and pullup.

10 reps each.

Is there any reason to add extra weight after this for tennis performance? My plan was to just focus on range of motion, and move onto plyo, balance, and flexibility.

J

 

[megamind]

This, but probably 5 reps is more than enough (but keep 10 pullups)

I agree with your general thought process of past a certain point, strength doesnt add that much compared to the other types of training you mentioned

 

[megamind]

Maybe work on your cardio/conditioning too, if you feel you could improve it

 

[J011yroger]

Maybe work on your cardio/conditioning too, if you feel you could improve it

My plan is sub 5:30 mile but since it was 12 degrees yesterday, that test will have to wait for spring.

I am on court 50+ hours per week so I am not in danger of couch potato status.

J

 

[WildVolley]

Difficult question to answer. The old rule of thumb was that strength training involves fewer reps than hypertrophy training. Tennis players in general want to avoid hypertrophy training because carrying more mass puts more stress on the joints and makes changing direction more difficult. The claim in the past was that higher reps (they used to start us out with 20 rep sets in track) were better for hypertrophy and lower rep ranges (say 4-8) were better for strength training.

So, I'd suggest that as you start approaching your bodyweight goals you start dropping the rep range to 4-6 reps, rather than 10. I'd progressively keep adding small amounts of weight if you can perform the lower rep range as it might still give you more strength, which should protect against injury and aid your other training. At some point you're going to start running into your limits without upping your calorie intake and piling on bodyweight. At that point, your injury risk goes up a lot as you fail on the exercises (I'm assuming that you won't up your bodyweight to keep gaining strength).

Once you have a strength base, you should start doing basic plyo stuff. Plyo recovery times are longer than lifting times because of the greater stress on joints and connective tissue.

 

[onehandbh]

I set some arbitrary goals of 1x bodyweight bench, 1.5x bodyweight squat, 2x bodyweight DL, and pullup.

10 reps each.

Is there any reason to add extra weight after this for tennis performance? My plan was to just focus on range of motion, and move onto plyo, balance, and flexibility.

J

I have found that increases in strength have helped in to increase my explosiveness and speed on the court.
Flexibility (I do yoga) also helps to increase the "usable" range of motion of my body on the court with less chance of injury.
e.g. if you are lunging sideways for a ball that is low and away and your glutes and hamstrings are tight, you chance of injury your lower back increases b/c that is the weakest link.

Maybe try timing yourself in the 5 ball spider drill to keep track of your speed. Can also measure your standing vertical jump.

 

[megamind]

My plan is sub 5:30 mile but since it was 12 degrees yesterday, that test will have to wait for spring.

I am on court 50+ hours per week so I am not in danger of couch potato status.

J

Makes sense

 

[boulderchips]

I set some arbitrary goals of 1x bodyweight bench, 1.5x bodyweight squat, 2x bodyweight DL, and pullup.

10 reps each.

Is there any reason to add extra weight after this for tennis performance? My plan was to just focus on range of motion, and move onto plyo, balance, and flexibility.

J

I'm no fitness guru, but this is basically my philosophy too. I find that when I get too big in the weight room, it hinders mobility and agility. Past a certain point (yours seems pretty reasonable, although 2X DL is hefty), I think time is better spent on explosiveness/flexibility/endurance if on-court performance is the goal

 

[onehandbh]

I'm no fitness guru, but this is basically my philosophy too. I find that when I get too big in the weight room, it hinders mobility and agility. Past a certain point (yours seems pretty reasonable, although 2X DL is hefty), I think time is better spent on explosiveness/flexibility/endurance if on-court performance is the goal

I think having a strong strength base helps to make plyo work safer b/c the max loads can be quite high in plyo work.

I agree that flexibility and speed work is also important and should be combined with strength work in some way.

 

[boulderchips]

I think having a strong strength base helps to make plyo work safer b/c the max loads can be quite high in plyo work.

I agree that flexibility and speed work is also important and should be combined with strength work in some way.

Oh I agree, I didn't mean to imply otherwise. I think maintaining a strength base is helpful in all kinds of ways. I just meant that if the goal is tennis performance, at a certain point I stop chasing weight-room PRs

 

[J011yroger]

I'm no fitness guru, but this is basically my philosophy too. I find that when I get too big in the weight room, it hinders mobility and agility. Past a certain point (yours seems pretty reasonable, although 2X DL is hefty), I think time is better spent on explosiveness/flexibility/endurance if on-court performance is the goal

Sorry, 1.75xBW on the deadlift. My mistake.

J

 

[antony]

Use hex bars for deadlifting instead of straight bar

 

[travlerajm]

I set some arbitrary goals of 1 x bodyweight bench, 1.5 x bodyweight squat, 1.75 x bodyweight DL, and pullup.

10 reps each.

Is there any reason to add extra weight after this for tennis performance? My plan was to just focus on range of motion, and move onto plyo, balance, and flexibility.

J

If tennis performance is the objective, my 2-cent opinion as a biomechanical engineering scientist is that you will have more gains by focusing on getting body weight lighter than by adding extra weight to your lifts.

In layman’s terms, newton’s 2nd law says that if you decrease your body mass by 5%, you can accelerate 5% faster to give yourself more time to set up for every single rally ball. I think that’s worth a lot more than being able to bench press your body weight, unless your coach insists on making you do push-ups after every ball that lands inside the service line (I witnessed a high-profile coach of atp pros doing this last month, so I’m only half-joking).

 

[t_pac]

For tennis performance? I'd say no.

That's not to say you shouldn't keep adding weight if you enjoy lifting heavy, but speed/explosive work, core, unilateral exercises and keeping smaller muscles/joints healthy (delts, elbows etc.) are all going to be more beneficial from a tennis point of view.

 

[T1000]

I’d focus on hitting 3-5 rep maxes instead of 10 if you want to build a strength base. Your target percentages are fine but lower the reps, you’ll build strength much faster that way.

Oh I agree, I didn't mean to imply otherwise. I think maintaining a strength base is helpful in all kinds of ways. I just meant that if the goal is tennis performance, at a certain point I stop chasing weight-room PRs

this is the correct mindset to have when using the weight room for sports performance.

Use hex bars for deadlifting instead of straight bar

Agree with this. I prefer athletes using the trap bar for deadlifts and doing Romanian deadlifts for direct hamstring work. My favorite variation is with the landmine attachment because it has the least amount of stress on the lower back and it really hits the glutes/hamstrings.

 

[J011yroger]

I’d focus on hitting 3-5 rep maxes instead of 10 if you want to build a strength base. Your target percentages are fine but lower the reps, you’ll build strength much faster that way.



this is the correct mindset to have when using the weight room for sports performance.




Agree with this. I prefer athletes using the trap bar for deadlifts and doing Romanian deadlifts for direct hamstring work. My favorite variation is with the landmine attachment because it has the least amount of stress on the lower back and it really hits the glutes/hamstrings.

What if I'm already at/near 10 reps at those %?

Keep doing 10x3 or go to 5x5?

J

 

[Goof]

Always add weight the next workout IF you hit all your reps with your current weight. Cut your reps and sets though if strength/performance is your only goal.

I currently do an upper/lower split and alternate heavy low volume with high volume workouts. On strength days, I just do 3 sets of 3 for one exercise per muscle group with a 90-120 rest between sets. Once I can do a 4th rep on my 3rd set without breaking form, I add 5 lbs. You don't really need much more than that for strength gains. Too much volume hampers recovery and adds size, which it sounds like you don't care about. Now, if you want to add size and insane cardiovascular benefit to your lifting, google Vince Gironda 8x8. Your strength and recovery will pay the price though (which is why I alternate workouts).

 

[J011yroger]

Always add weight the next workout IF you hit all your reps with your current weight. Cut your reps and sets though if strength/performance is your only goal.

I currently do an upper/lower split and alternate heavy low volume with high volume workouts. On strength days, I just do 3 sets of 3 for one exercise per muscle group with a 90-120 rest between sets. Once I can do a 4th rep on my 3rd set without breaking form, I add 5 lbs. You don't really need much more than that for strength gains. Too much volume hampers recovery and adds size, which it sounds like you don't care about. Now, if you want to add size and insane cardiovascular benefit to your lifting, google Vince Gironda 8x8. Your strength and recovery will pay the price though (which is why I alternate workouts).

I do not want to add size, ya boi is thicc.

If they told me to haul ass I'd have to make two trips.

J

 

[T1000]

What if I'm already at/near 10 reps at those %?

Keep doing 10x3 or go to 5x5?

J

Id still move to the 3-5 rep range because it’s a more efficient use of your time. That range is better for strength gains than 10 reps.

 

[J011yroger]

Id still move to the 3-5 rep range because it’s a more efficient use of your time. That range is better for strength gains than 10 reps.

Wait, I thought we didn't need any more strength once we reached the goal weights?

Or you are just saying keep adding weight until I stop getting stronger because I'm not eating enough?

What does added size do without added strength? Increase endurance?

J

 

[Goof]

Wait, I thought we didn't need any more strength once we reached the goal weights?

Or you are just saying keep adding weight until I stop getting stronger because I'm not eating enough?

What does added size do without added strength? Increase endurance?

J

There's no reason not to keep adding strength. More sets and reps = more size, so you with your goals are better off going heavy for low reps, low sets. Added size is generally for aesthetic purposes only with no real functional use (other than some increased strength, which you can increase more without necessarily adding much size).

 

[nyta2]

Added size is generally for aesthetic purposes

doesn't feel that way when i'm on the bottom of a grappling session
***
my $.02 on strength... i found gymnastic body training better suited for tennis... ie. get stronger without adding excessive bodyweight (as well as more functional: eg. the balance for single leg squats crosses over perfectly to tennis)..
only problem is that it's not as satisfying as weightlifting where you can track your progress in 2.5lb and 5lb incrememnts... where's gymnastic exercise progress is often measured in inches or time (eg. front levers, back levers, planche push up progressions, etc..)

 

[Purestriker]

I set some arbitrary goals of 1 x bodyweight bench, 1.5 x bodyweight squat, 1.75 x bodyweight DL, and pullup.

10 reps each.

Is there any reason to add extra weight after this for tennis performance? My plan was to just focus on range of motion, and move onto plyo, balance, and flexibility.

J

Don't stop until you are Tennis swole.

 

[Purestriker]

My plan is sub 5:30 mile but since it was 12 degrees yesterday, that test will have to wait for spring.

I am on court 50+ hours per week so I am not in danger of couch potato status.

J

If you can hit sub 5:30 for a few miles that is strong.

 

[J011yroger]

If you can hit sub 5:30 for a few miles that is strong.

Sub 18 5k is a little above my pay grade unless I specifically trained for it, which I have no desire to do.

J

 

[antony]

Sub 18 5k is a little above my pay grade unless I specifically trained for it, which I have no desire to do.

J

I heard from someone long distance running can hamper the type of running needed for tennis

 

[StilltheGOAT]

My plan is sub 5:30 mile but since it was 12 degrees yesterday, that test will have to wait for spring.

I am on court 50+ hours per week so I am not in danger of couch potato status.

J

Hey, really asking this out of curiosity-
What do you exactly do as a profession? Genuine Curiosity.
Plus have to add Sir maybe

 

[Goof]

I heard from someone long distance running can hamper the type of running needed for tennis

Disagree. Tennis requires efficiency of all energy systems. Aerobic might actually be the most important in today's game of longer baseline rallies/longer matches.

 

[J011yroger]

I heard long distance running hampers the type of running needed for tennis from someone

I ran long distance for most of my adolescent life, then after college took it up again as well as basic workouts 3x per week just to stay in shape since my shoulder was still too jacked up to play tennis. Then around 25-26 I started playing tennis again and I could play forever without getting tired but I wasn't fast at all. When I decided I was going to play tennis seriously again I started working with an ATP trainer and for the first time in my life my speed became adequate, I was more stable, business was booming. I continued the ATP style workouts, did a little distance running, added some general training and did some tough mudder type races and such.

After that I added lifting heavier and after my first winter of that I was unbelievably fast (for me) but I didn't have the muscular endurance to play hard every day, so I basically spent the whole summer with my legs tired unless I got to rest a couple of days and then I was back in business.

So the next year I added high resistance low speed stuff, stairs and biking at high resistance low RPM and that got me back my muscular endurance.

I feel like an aerobic base is an absolute must before starting intervals and speed work since the more time you can spend in an aerobic zone the better, your anerobic periods should be emergency situations.

I'm going to continue the S&P for February and then start to lean out and add in speed work in March/April.

J

 

[J011yroger]

Hey, really asking this out of curiosity-
What do you exactly do as a profession? Genuine Curiosity.
Plus have to add Sir maybe

I am a tennis pro.

J

 

[antony]

Disagree. Tennis requires efficiency of all energy systems. Aerobic might actually be the most important in today's game of longer baseline rallies/longer matches.

“Many coaches also still believe that running long distance will build an aerobic base but the type of aerobic qualities that are enhanced during long-distance running, are not the qualities we need for tennis - or any explosive type sport. In this article, we’ll outline the basic physiology of tennis, why you shouldn’t run (there are more reasons then, it’s a waste of time) and what you should do instead.”

You Cannot Be Serious! Are You Still (Long-Distance) Running to Get Conditioned for Tennis?

Not so long ago, a tennis coach I worked alongside asked why I don’t prescribe long runs with our players. You know, to get them into shape. My response at the time was that we need to prioritize their strength, power and explosive abilities. He then asked why I didn’t do long runs with them during

www.mattspoint.com

 

[J011yroger]

“Many coaches also still believe that running long distance will build an aerobic base but the type of aerobic qualities that are enhanced during long-distance running, are not the qualities we need for tennis - or any explosive type sport. In this article, we’ll outline the basic physiology of tennis, why you shouldn’t run (there are more reasons then, it’s a waste of time) and what you should do instead.”

You Cannot Be Serious! Are You Still (Long-Distance) Running to Get Conditioned for Tennis?

Not so long ago, a tennis coach I worked alongside asked why I don’t prescribe long runs with our players. You know, to get them into shape. My response at the time was that we need to prioritize their strength, power and explosive abilities. He then asked why I didn’t do long runs with them during

www.mattspoint.com

Yea, I'm not taking advice from someone who doesn't know the difference between then and than.

J

 

[antony]

I am a tennis pro.

J

Tennis teaching* pro, for some folks’ clarification

Unless you earn a living from sponsorships and tournament prize money

Yea, I'm not taking advice from someone who doesn't know the difference between then and than.

J

he’s not who I heard it from first. I think Roger Seguso told me that too (brother of Robert). It’s also inline with my understanding of human physiology. Also, this coach with a Masters in Exercise and Sports Science for touring players agrees

Why Jogging Is A Waste Of Time For Tennis Conditioning | Tennis Conditioning

Jogging is a training component for tennis players even though it’s not the most beneficial endurance training for them. Watch the video!

www.tennis-conditioning.com

 

[cortado]

Lift enough weight you're gonna give yourself tennis elbow too.

 

[J011yroger]

Lift enough weight you're gonna give yourself tennis elbow too.

Wouldn't it be weightlifters elbow?

J

 

[J011yroger]

Tennis teaching* pro, for some folks’ clarification

Unless you earn a living from sponsorships and tournament prize money



he’s not who I heard it from first. I think Roger Seguso told me that too (brother of Robert). It’s also inline with my understanding of human physiology. Also, this coach with a Masters in Exercise and Sports Science for touring players agrees

Why Jogging Is A Waste Of Time For Tennis Conditioning | Tennis Conditioning

Jogging is a training component for tennis players even though it’s not the most beneficial endurance training for them. Watch the video!

www.tennis-conditioning.com

Who TF is jogging for 60 minutes as part of tennis training regular routine?!?!?!

Furthermore who TF is doing 45 minutes of intervals?!?!

J

 

[Purestriker]

Who TF is jogging for 60 minutes as part of tennis training regular routine?!?!?!

Furthermore who TF is doing 45 minutes of intervals?!?!

J

Nobody.....that is torture.

 

[antony]

Quite a few people go on 1 hour jogs, especially in the morning to start their day

I think many players, pros, and prospective pros regularly train an hour of fitness outside of tennis practice every day

many academies’ schedules usually have an hour of fitness training every day in addition to whatever hours of tennis are in the day

 

[Purestriker]

Quite a few people go on 1 hour jogs, especially in the morning to start their day

I think many players, pros, and prospective pros regularly train an hour of fitness outside of tennis practice every day

many academies’ schedules usually have an hour of fitness training every day in addition to whatever hours of tennis are in the day

Yes, pros run, bike, swim and have hours of gym time. I run, but I am not doing 45 minutes of interval training after I am done with 3 to 5 miles.

 

[antony]

Yes, pros run, bike, swim and have hours of gym time. I run, but I am not doing 45 minutes of interval training after I am done with 3 to 5 miles.

What? That guy is recommending instead of running long distances for an hour, to do interval training instead

 

[Purestriker]

What? That guy is recommending instead of running long distances for an hour, to do interval training instead

Yes, my bad. I don't consider 3 miles a long run. I haven't done intervals in a long time. But I remember the pain, it is a lot harder than just jogging.

 

[antony]

Yes, my bad. I don't consider 3 miles a long run. I haven't done intervals in a long time. But I remember the pain, it is a lot harder than just jogging.

Haha 3 miles not a long run, you sound like a distance runner

i “ran” a mini once. Not fun for me when the most I’ve run before that was probably one mile

 

[Goof]

Tennis players need to be able to efficiently tap into all three major energy systems, with anaerobic lactic probably most important. But they are all important for tennis. Anaerobic alactic is important for short, explosive points (e.g. serve and volley, serve+1, chasing drop ****s), anaerobic lactic is important for long rallies, and aerobic is important for long matches. On top if needing all three, if you only train one or two systems, you'll burn out. All alactic? You'll pull muscles. All lactic? You'll be running on fumes in your daily life unless you eat non-stop and/or take a lot of off-days. All aerobic? Your joints will wear away. Train all three (on different days ideally).

 

[T1000]

Wait, I thought we didn't need any more strength once we reached the goal weights?

Or you are just saying keep adding weight until I stop getting stronger because I'm not eating enough?

What does added size do without added strength? Increase endurance?

J

I would keep adding strength until I am satisfied with where I am (ex. hit goal weights) or until I noticed it negatively affecting my sports performance. It’s up to you to decide which one you will go with.

Increased muscle mass increases your strength potential. I would think that more muscle would mean less endurance since muscles require blood and oxygen but I never took an anatomy or exercise science class so what do I know.

 

[Purestriker]

Haha 3 miles not a long run, you sound like a distance runner

i “ran” a mini once. Not fun for me when the most I’ve run before that was probably one mile

Yeah, I have run 2 marathons and well over 20 half marathons. I used to run 30 to 35 miles a week. Now in the 15 to 20 mile range.

 

[J011yroger]

Quite a few people go on 1 hour jogs, especially in the morning to start their day

I think many players, pros, and prospective pros regularly train an hour of fitness outside of tennis practice every day

many academies’ schedules usually have an hour of fitness training every day in addition to whatever hours of tennis are in the day

Ya, soccer moms and such.

That hour of fitness per day is probably 15 minutes of running.

This guy is talking like coaches are having players knock out 9 miles five days a week. Nobody is running for an hour as part of tennis training.

Maybe a one hour track workout once a week when you don't have a tournament, and 15 minutes of that spent on insta looking at tiddies.

J

 

[J011yroger]

Haha 3 miles not a long run, you sound like a distance runner

i “ran” a mini once. Not fun for me when the most I’ve run before that was probably one mile

But 3 miles is like 20 minutes...

J

 

[J011yroger]

Tennis players need to be able to efficiently tap into all three major energy systems, with anaerobic lactic probably most important. But they are all important for tennis. Anaerobic alactic is important for short, explosive points (e.g. serve and volley, serve+1, chasing drop ****s), anaerobic lactic is important for long rallies, and aerobic is important for long matches. On top if needing all three, if you only train one or two systems, you'll burn out. All alactic? You'll pull muscles. All lactic? You'll be running on fumes in your daily life unless you eat non-stop and/or take a lot of off-days. All aerobic? Your joints will wear away. Train all three (on different days ideally).

Yes, this is the way.

Especially tailored to the player's needs, if you are sucking wind doing x drills after 4x16 then we are going to put some miles under your belt. If I have seen paint dry faster than you, speed work is on the menu.

J

 

[SRUalum]

So much misinformation in this thread.

It's actually very, very easy to maintain above 90% of max strength on limited training once you actually achieve it. For example, I hit a 625lb deadlift weighing just a sandwich under 200lbs when I had abandoned playing tennis and was focused on nothing but strength.

I decided to get back into playing tennis a few times a week, started doing some interval running 2x a week, dropped my strength work to 2x a week with literally 4 movements only (Standing Overhead Press, Barbell Deadlift, Weighted Pullups, Ab Wheel) as opposed to the 4-5x a week before, got my weight down to the mid 180's, and was able to pull 550lb+ pretty well anytime I wanted to without thinking twice.

Fast forward a few more years to currently, I have dropped weight down to the mid 170's, am running about 40 miles per week (increasing to 50-55 gradually) to get ready for a sub-90min half, strength training 2x a week with nothing but kettlebell swings, pushups, and ab wheel work, and walked into a gym and pulled a 500lb deadlift without touching a barbell for almost two years. I'm pretty sure that with 4 weeks of barbell training to hammer out the technique and timing again, a 550lb pull would happen.

After you hit your strength goals, I would take the weight you hit for 10 reps and do something like 5 sets of 3 once or twice a week with a bit shorter rest and a focus on doing the lift as explosively as positive on the concentric while controlling the eccentric. You will more than maintain your strength if not get even more explosive and it will not be all that physically taxing.

Let's say my three big movements were Overhead Press, Deadlift, Weighted Pullup, and I hit 185x10 for Press, 405x10 for Deadlift, and BW+45lbs for Pullups, I would do something like this if I wanted to train 3x a week:

Mon: Press, 185 x 3 reps x 5 sets / Pullup, +45lbs x 3 reps x 5 sets
Wed: Deadlift, 405 x 3 reps x 5 sets / Ab Wheel Rollouts
Fri: Press, 185 x 3 reps x 5 sets / Pullup, +45lbs x 3 reps x 5 sets

Mon: Deadlift, 405 x 3 reps x 5 sets / Ab Wheel Rollouts
Wed: Press, 185 x 3 reps x 5 sets / Pullup, +45lbs x 3 reps x 5 sets
Fri: Deadlift, 405 x 3 reps x 5 sets / Ab Wheel Rollouts

Those sessions would not take very long at all and would allow time to add in some stretching, yoga, plyos, sprints, endurance work, etc. without being too much of a burden from both a time standpoint and a physical taxation (recovery) standpoint.

 

[denoted]

If there's a professional tennis player who could overhead press 185 once, I'd be very, very surprised.