When will Head ever release Djokovic’s actual stick ?

McEncock

Semi-Pro
They don't HAVE to do it. They could just release the same racquet with no lies and be prosper because racquets brake-in, or just break, so you have to replace them time to time. BTW, as you can see with limited paintjob, they work and they make the consummer buy the same racquet with different cosmetics.
Why the brands simply don't sell every 2 years another paintjob of the same racquet without lying? That would work
 

a12345

Semi-Pro
They don't HAVE to do it. They could just release the same racquet with no lies and be prosper because racquets brake-in, or just break, so you have to replace them time to time. BTW, as you can see with limited paintjob, they work and they make the consummer buy the same racquet with different cosmetics.
Why the brands simply don't sell every 2 years another paintjob of the same racquet without lying? That would work
Because they are a business and thats how business works. Whenever you bring out a new product in any industry, sales are usually high. It then starts to drop off dramatically after about 6 months, then they start discounting and they need something new to bring to the market. Consumers are fickle.

Ironically some consider the RF97 to be a bit of a con when you are selling a new racket thats the same as the old one but with a different paint job.
 
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Alexh22

Professional
There is no way they can justify this. I would rather they don’t lie about their new lines at all. In RF s case at least they tell you it is the same racquet. Can you imagine Federer endorse a clash and uses his prostaff painted as such to make a sale? If Djokovic endorses the speed and plays with something completely different, that is misrepresentation.
Thanks to the graphene, those traditional radicals you mentioned are gone forever. This also reminds me of what happened to Aeropro Drives that were completely phased out simply because they want to sell something new but worse to make money.
 

a12345

Semi-Pro
There is no way they can justify this. I would rather they don’t lie about their new lines at all. In RF s case at least they tell you it is the same racquet. Can you imagine Federer endorse a clash and uses his prostaff painted as such to make a sale? If Djokovic endorses the speed and plays with something completely different, that is misrepresentation.
Thanks to the graphene, those traditional radicals you mentioned are gone forever.
All endorsements are like this, in the small print they will say Djokovic or Murray or Nadal "endorses this racket". The only player that plays with his actual racket is Federer, but thats because they built the racket specially for him. But before RF97 Fed use to have a paint job and endorsed Kfactor, Nsix, BLX, Hyper Prostaff, but didnt actually play with them.
 

smalahove

Hall of Fame
There is no way they can justify this. I would rather they don’t lie about their new lines at all. In RF s case at least they tell you it is the same racquet. Can you imagine Federer endorse a clash and uses his prostaff painted as such to make a sale? If Djokovic endorses the speed and plays with something completely different, that is misrepresentation.
Thanks to the graphene, those traditional radicals you mentioned are gone forever. This also reminds me of what happened to Aeropro Drives that were completely phased out simply because they want to sell something new but worse to make money.
The new Graphene 360+ material has produced the best retail frames on the market right now: Prestige Mid+, MP+ and the Gravity Pro. Add to that the Pro Tour 2.0, even though it’s not a G360+. All 20 mm beam frames. How many 20 mm retail frames does Wilson offer?
 

Alexh22

Professional
The new Graphene 360+ material has produced the best retail frames on the market right now: Prestige Mid+, MP+ and the Gravity Pro. Add to that the Pro Tour 2.0, even though it’s not a G360+. All 20 mm beam frames. How many 20 mm retail frames does Wilson offer?
What ? How is that related to the topic here ? Why does w need to do 20mm beam ?
 
The new Graphene 360+ material has produced the best retail frames on the market right now: Prestige Mid+, MP+ and the Gravity Pro. Add to that the Pro Tour 2.0, even though it’s not a G360+. All 20 mm beam frames. How many 20 mm retail frames does Wilson offer?
Is that new Graphene 360+ Prestige Mid similar to TGT312? Have you had any chance to compare them? The pro stock doesn't have enough power for me.
I really love old Dunlop and Head Mids – do you think I should try the new Mid as well?
 

smalahove

Hall of Fame
Is that new Graphene 360+ Prestige Mid similar to TGT312? Have you had any chance to compare them? The pro stock doesn't have enough power for me.
I really love old Dunlop and Head Mids – do you think I should try the new Mid as well?
I’ve only hit with a few prostocks, but not the TGT312. Of the four 20mm frames Head currently offer, it has the least feel ime but it’s still a great feeling frame albeit more modern (6.1 95sh). That being said, what the mid+ lacks in old school feel, it gains in power. I prefer the Mid+ to any new Wilson or Yonex frame. You have to add alot of lead to the VCore 95 to get close to the Mid+ stock.

I’m prob buying the Extreme Tour, but right now it’d either the MP+ or Mid+. The MP+ has a fantastic feel which is not identical to the old Prestige feel, but mixed new and old in a similar fashion as the first version of the Textreme Tour 95 did. But it lacks the plow of the Mid+.

Another strange thing is that both my MP+ and Mid+ are strung at 46lbs with Lynx 1.25, and the Mid+ (still) has a firmer string bed than the MP+ (that has less hours od play and was bought a week after). The string density look pretty similar to me, as the big diff between the two is the length of the mains (and length of the hoop).
 

I started this topic providing basic facts to serve as an anchor for fans who are interested in Novak Djokovic’s actual PT 113b/PT 346 Radical racquet that launched him to where he is today. My goal is NOT to convince people to pay huge price for his racquet nor to bash specific brand. I encourage you to freely play with whatever racquet you like to maximize the fun, and excitement in tennis. Contact tennis warehouse for a demo or buy directly.

Djokovic has signed with head for a decade yet head refuses to market his actual racquet : a PT346 Radical MP type in 18x19. A entire generation of fans have no chance to play or even touch the true Djokovic Radical thanks to head s misleading campaigns. Djokovic never used a speed type yet he used a radical mp type racquet painted as a speed. The sad thing is PT113b and PT346 radical type are from head Austrian factory made in limited numbers. Fans would have to spend $5000 or more in order to buy one from auctions. But it is way over budget for average family and young tennis fans. Before Djokovic’s big commitment with head he used a wilson H22 often painted as a nBlade or K Blade.

The issue about head is misrepresentation. They could have had Djokovic behind the radicals and cater a rather large population of fans that benefit from the so called “pro” sticks. The fact is no attempt is made to even try to have Djokovic promote the frame he actually uses which created a void today in head s lines : the true signature sticks for Djoker. Same thing applies to Andy Murray who could have boosted the sales of the prestige pros 10 years ago but he was put on a different line which died out with the introduction of graphene. There is no bench mark to measure the likelihood of success because they never tried to market it right. The Djokovic PT346 mold is stuck at their Austrian plant not intended to be used in mass production which is really sad.
Head should be honest and sell the PT113b radical type in 18x20 if PT346 18x19 is so secretive. These can be mass produced in China like any other sticks so please don’t tell me it is due to cost. And for the last time,head did NOT run out of material to make PTs despite them saying so to TW.
There is certainly a barrier between their Austrian plant and Chinese plant. They don’t share molds or materials.
We are fed up with misrepresentation from head and we just want to know when will we ever see a true Djokovic Radical available in store during this life time or will head choose to lie until the very end ?

Bottom line here is equipment plays a key role Djokovic’s success. if you give Djokovic an inferior speed mp or speed pro type he is going to achieve zero GS.

Update:
Wilson once made H22 racquet based in radical mp. Djokovic used H22 to win his first GS title in Melbourne. H22 And radical look similar but they play 100% Different because of different layup and material distribution throughout the stick.
My wife and I both played a H22 and LM radical mp with alu power rough at 48lb, side by side. Silicone in the handle, zero lead. Same weight and balance.
H22 is powerful, stable and played like a16x19 with spin and comfort. we both can pick it up and play effective right away. I still have this H22 today.
LM rad mp is low powered, flimsy, has a tiny sweet spot and unpredictable. The lack of stability is shocking. I remember selling the lm radical soon after because it is noticeably an inferior stick. My hitting partner also had similar feedback.

Djoker s performance jumped as soon as he got the H22 and won his first Australian Open title. Since I have moved to other sticks, I have not played a pt113 but it resembles H22 closely which plays nothing like a lm radical mp. Even though they may look similar.

Update 2:
Head released Pro Tour 2.0 racquet similar to PT57a which seen its first batch sold out within days. If they do a 2.0 or signature edition of pt113b or PT346 radical People will pay but since everything around Djokovic’s racquet so far has been built on a lie they will have no choice but to never release the true Djokovic Radical. We will also never see Andy Murray ‘s PT57 16x19 before his retirement.
Uh. HIS FRAME WILL BE RELEASED ON THE 12TH OF NEVER.....
 
Maybe Head could bring back the pt113b in a similar way to the micro gel radical mp, but sell it under a speed paintjob. I mean, if you really want it under a radical pj, just custom paint it. I would raise it to the price of around the current speed pro, or maybe hide the gem in a way as the pt 2.0
I could be wrong, but hasn't it been said in the past that the MG Radical is the closest retail frame to Djoker's real racquet? Obviously talking about mould here, not all the other specs.
 

socallefty

Hall of Fame
Maybe Head has more integrity than Wilson. While Wilson is content to let most recreational users of the RF97 suck really bad at tennis since it is patently the wrong racquet for their playing level, Head lets more rec players play decently with the tweener specs of the Head Speed. There are a lot of out-of-shape guys hitting funny-looking, bunty shots with their RF97 strung with Champion’s Choice strings (strung more than a year ago) on the public courts here in California.

If they released Djokovic‘s actual racquet, it would just lead to more ‘sucky tennis’ on the public courts of Serbia, China and wherever else the Djoker has fans. Ok, I‘m trying to be droll, but you guys know there is a lot of truth to this.
 

cortado

Semi-Pro
Maybe Head has more integrity than Wilson. While Wilson is content to let most recreational users of the RF97 suck really bad at tennis since it is patently the wrong racquet for their playing level, Head lets more rec players play decently with the tweener specs of the Head Speed. There are a lot of out-of-shape guys hitting funny-looking, bunty shots with their RF97 strung with Champion’s Choice strings (strung more than a year ago) on the public courts here in California.

If they released Djokovic‘s actual racquet, it would just lead to more ‘sucky tennis’ on the public courts of Serbia, China and wherever else the Djoker has fans. Ok, I‘m trying to be droll, but you guys know there is a lot of truth to this.
It's funny in a way. Some pro racquets are the same head-size and beam etc as the retail model, just heavier. With Djoko we have different head size, beam width, stiffness, string pattern, weight etc. Totally different racquet. But that has lead the actual Speed to become really popular, and there are now pros (Sinner etc) playing with actual Speeds, partly inspired by somebody (Djokovic) who isn't using one.
 

onehandbh

Legend
Maybe Head has more integrity than Wilson. While Wilson is content to let most recreational users of the RF97 suck really bad at tennis since it is patently the wrong racquet for their playing level, Head lets more rec players play decently with the tweener specs of the Head Speed. There are a lot of out-of-shape guys hitting funny-looking, bunty shots with their RF97 strung with Champion’s Choice strings (strung more than a year ago) on the public courts here in California.

If they released Djokovic‘s actual racquet, it would just lead to more ‘sucky tennis’ on the public courts of Serbia, China and wherever else the Djoker has fans. Ok, I‘m trying to be droll, but you guys know there is a lot of truth to this.
In my area I am have not seen anyone use the RF97. I've seen people using the lighter pro staff 97 but not the RF97.

I use it once in awhile. For some shots I like it but for others I do not. Seems like it has a high launch angle and is good for groundstrokes.
 

kevin qmto

Semi-Pro
I hit with one of the university coaches (former German player, who was once ranked in the 400s in singles) pro model Wilson (no idea what the code was). I played much worse with it than my regular racket. Far too heavy for my weak build, and when things weren’t going into the net they were going long because I don’t have nearly the racket speed to get enough spin on the ball. That was what made me realize why they don’t sell these rackets to the public.
 

esm

Hall of Fame
I hit with one of the university coaches (former German player, who was once ranked in the 400s in singles) pro model Wilson (no idea what the code was). I played much worse with it than my regular racket. Far too heavy for my weak build, and when things weren’t going into the net they were going long because I don’t have nearly the racket speed to get enough spin on the ball. That was what made me realize why they don’t sell these rackets to the public.
true in one sense i think.
the so called "pro stock" is usually a platform frame - it is more likely your coach modded to his spec, which is different to yours, hence the experience.
 

Alexh22

Professional
I hit with one of the university coaches (former German player, who was once ranked in the 400s in singles) pro model Wilson (no idea what the code was). I played much worse with it than my regular racket. Far too heavy for my weak build, and when things weren’t going into the net they were going long because I don’t have nearly the racket speed to get enough spin on the ball. That was what made me realize why they don’t sell these rackets to the public.
This doesn’t mean his racquet is better than your racquet. I don’t think there is a racquet that fits every single tennis player out there. It worked for him may not work for you and wise versa. For example my buddy tried my pt57 and returned it to me saying it is too heavy for him. Everyone is different
 
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blablavla

Legend
LM rad mp is low powered, flimsy, has a tiny sweet spot and unpredictable. The lack of stability is shocking. I remember selling the lm radical soon after because it is noticeably an inferior stick. My hitting partner also had similar feedback.
what if you level is not good enough to play with it?
and because of this Head protects you and your wallet from going and blindly buying a racket that you won't be able to handle?
 

cortado

Semi-Pro
what if you level is not good enough to play with it?
and because of this Head protects you and your wallet from going and blindly buying a racket that you won't be able to handle?
Also surprising that it is unstable, TW racquet comparison tool lists twist-weight as 14.3, swing weight 319, flex 64.
 

Alexh22

Professional
Also surprising that it is unstable, TW racquet comparison tool lists twist-weight as 14.3, swing weight 319, flex 64.
The comparison tool often has no real world implication. Remember how the pure aeros do is not even the top five spin racquet according to the tool ? A demo is usually the best way to tell how a racquet performs, not the numbers on paper.
 

socallefty

Hall of Fame
Head and Babolat have sold a lot of tweeners and made a lot of money over the years by having Djokovic and Nadal endorse lighter racquet models than the actual ones they play with. They are not going to suddenly change this strategy.

Federer in contrast was endorsing a midsize players racquet before the RF97 that occupied a much smaller niche in the rec player market - so, it made sense for Wilson to have him start endorsing a racquet close to what he plays with once he moved to a larger, stiffer racquet. I still think they would have sold even more racquets if they had made Federer endorse the regular weight ProStaff 97 than the heavier RF97.
 

blablavla

Legend
this is exactly what the problems is. head sell garbage sticks to the public and refuse to release anything close to PT113b.
pal, wanna tell me in which retail store I can enter to purchase following rackets:
Del Po Wilson frame, same mold, same lay-up, same PJ, same string pattern, same static weight, same SW, same balance?
Nishikori Wilson frame, same mold, same lay-up, same PJ, same string pattern, same static weight, same SW, same balance?
Rublev's Wilson frames, same mold, same lay-up, same PJ, same string pattern, same static weight, same SW, same balance?
Dimitrov Wilson frame, same mold, same lay-up, same PJ, same string pattern, same static weight, same SW, same balance?
Rafa Babolat frame, same mold, same lay-up, same PJ, same string pattern, same static weight, same SW, same balance?
Fognine Babolat frame, same mold, same lay-up, same PJ, same string pattern, same static weight, same SW, same balance?

just to name a few companies
 
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Novichok

Rookie
I think it is disappointing that Head didn't make the Speed pro with Novak's mold and string pattern. It is not difficult for Head to do that. If the pro stock doesn’t have a 'consumer friendly' weight, they can easily play around with the layup to make something more suited to the high level rec player (like the gravity pro) but has the same feel, control, comfort etc. as the PT346/PT113B.
 
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blablavla

Legend
LM rad mp is low powered, flimsy, has a tiny sweet spot and unpredictable. The lack of stability is shocking. I remember selling the lm radical soon after because it is noticeably an inferior stick. My hitting partner also had similar feedback.
hey Alex 21.5 plus/minus 7, did you try to swing a frame known as Head Ti S6?
I heard that it ticks following boxes:
hi powered
generous sweet spot
stable
 

stronzzi70

Professional
They are not made in China as most of us thought (including myself) . They are made in Austria and painted in China. Not many players use the PT frames today, so, cheaper for them to ship them to China and get them painted there.
They will NEVER release that frame as it is demanding and fairly small sweet spot.
You do realize that it is Novak winning those tournaments, not really the racket...

That being said, I suggest you try the FXP Radical MP. IMO, the layup is extremely similar. The FXP holes do interfere a little bit, but generally, the frame is very similar feel, flex, twin-tube technology
Whst about FXP Radical Tour ??
 

Harry_Wild

G.O.A.T.
Tennis Warehouse - HEAD Agassi Radical Limited Edition Racquet Review (tennis-warehouse.com)

well i guess the specs were different than what he actually used...
i think his racquet was 13oz..
I thought Agassi used an oversized Prince Graphic that was PJ by racquet sponsor. I his bio, he mention at one point putting all his racquets in the trash because he was sick of tennis. I think he carried like 8 racquets and his racquet bag in the trash along with his clothing and other gear inside it.
 

vsbabolat

G.O.A.T.
I thought Agassi used an oversized Prince Graphic that was PJ by racquet sponsor. I his bio, he mention at one point putting all his racquets in the trash because he was sick of tennis. I think he carried like 8 racquets and his racquet bag in the trash along with his clothing and other gear inside it.
Agassi really used the HEAD Radical Oversize. You can’t paint job the cross bar of the Prince Graphite.
 

vsbabolat

G.O.A.T.
Maybe I was mistaken then!
Andre won all of his slams with the HEAD Radical Oversize except for that 1992 Wimbledon where he really used the Donnay Pro One Limited Edition. Again can’t paint gob the cross bar of the Prince that’s a very unique design feature. I read Andre’s book and was very surprised how he never mention HEAD. They designed him a racquet that he really used and used it to win all of his slams exception of one. Really quite shocked no thanks no, no acknowledgement of making a racquet for him he was happy with and felt comfortable with.
 

Alexh22

Professional
why should he ? head sold so many radicals and paint jobs because of Agassi . I am not sure who should be thanking who. Why Are you trying to take credit for Agassi’s success ?
 
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vsbabolat

G.O.A.T.
why should he ? head sold so many radicals and paint jobs because of him. I am not sure who should be thanking who.
Andre should be thanking HEAD for designing a racquet he felt good and comfortable with. That fact he won all of his grand slams and especially his 1999 French Open with the Radical Oversize. I know you hate HEAD and that’s fine. Enjoy your garbage Wilson’s with the worst QC in the industry and worst quality paint application.
 

Soul_Evisceration

Hall of Fame
I think it is disappointing that Head didn't make the Speed pro with Novak's mold and string pattern. It is not difficult for Head to do that. If the pro stock is has a 'not consumer friendly' weight, they can easily play around with the layup to make something more suited to the high level rec player (like the gravity pro) but has similar feel and control.
100% in agreement.

Why they can't release a Novak light Speed 95" 18*19, 62 RA Stifness, 27.25 extended length, 310-315 Strung, 320ish Swingweight and have the Customers tamper with lead? I am sure that would sell like hotcakes.

The closest thing right now is either get the Prestige Tour with a bigger headsize or the Tecnifibre RS 305 which is the closest to a Djokovic racquet specs for recent racquets.
 

Novichok

Rookie
Andre should be thanking HEAD for designing a racquet he felt good and comfortable with. That fact he won all of his grand slams and especially his 1999 French Open with the Radical Oversize. I know you hate HEAD and that’s fine. Enjoy your garbage Wilson’s with the worst QC in the industry and worst quality paint application.
Expecting Andre to go out of his way to thank Head seems a bit too much. :laughing:
 

BlueB

Legend
Why they can't release a Novak light Speed 95" 18*19, 62 RA Stifness, 27.25 extended length, 310-315 Strung, 320ish Swingweight and have the Customers tamper with lead? I am sure that would sell like hotcakes.
I would totally play with that!
But I already have a better thing - the same spec in 102" and standard length :)
 
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