His backhand is pretty good but the slowing of the conditions really screwed him over as his short swing meant he has to generate his own pace on the backhand rather than counter-punch which he doesn’t do as well as someone like Wawrinka.
When will someone actually pass Fed’s peak level of tennis?
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His backhand is pretty good but the slowing of the conditions really screwed him over as his short swing meant he has to generate his own pace on the backhand rather than counter-punch which he doesn’t do as well as someone like Wawrinka.
Crazy Finn
Hall of Fame
Honestly, I don't think we will.
"Peak" Federer had an all court attacking style that combined Sampras with the baseline hitting of someone like Agassi (sort of) or Lendl - but more elegant. It's the kind of thing you design in a video game. Fluid big serve, S&V style, but comfortably hit from the baseline, too, and all day. Defense is good, but also loves to attack. Seriously, I've watched tennis since wooden racquets were still around and I've never seen anything like it in one player. I could be wrong, I'm more than open to suggestions.
But, the courts have slowed down. Federer grew up in more varied surfaces, faster grass, maybe different hard courts. That's not to say those things were in effect during his peak, but as a young player, coming up through the juniors and ranks during his development during the 90's. String technology was just developing polys during that decade and racquets still tended to be pretty stiff and heavy.
Nowadays, with the courts and surface homogeneity, string technology, and lighter racquets - no one teaches those things like they did back then. Eastern forehands aren't very common. Volleying is a bit of a lost art. Most of the youngsters play the same, frankly. Meddy with his flat-ish vaguely Connors-esque strokes is an outlier. Shapovalov has the trappings of it, but he's pretty inconsistent and his net game, while decent relatively to his peers, wouldn't have rated at all if he was in the 80's or 90's. There's a few others, Hurkacz and Humbert, but ... yeah, not really.
What we mostly have is a bunch of pseudo-Djokovic-esque clones. They're not as varied, as tactical, or as well rounded as Novak, though.
So, no we won't see that again in terms of style and level (of that style).
"Peak" Federer had an all court attacking style that combined Sampras with the baseline hitting of someone like Agassi (sort of) or Lendl - but more elegant. It's the kind of thing you design in a video game. Fluid big serve, S&V style, but comfortably hit from the baseline, too, and all day. Defense is good, but also loves to attack. Seriously, I've watched tennis since wooden racquets were still around and I've never seen anything like it in one player. I could be wrong, I'm more than open to suggestions.
But, the courts have slowed down. Federer grew up in more varied surfaces, faster grass, maybe different hard courts. That's not to say those things were in effect during his peak, but as a young player, coming up through the juniors and ranks during his development during the 90's. String technology was just developing polys during that decade and racquets still tended to be pretty stiff and heavy.
Nowadays, with the courts and surface homogeneity, string technology, and lighter racquets - no one teaches those things like they did back then. Eastern forehands aren't very common. Volleying is a bit of a lost art. Most of the youngsters play the same, frankly. Meddy with his flat-ish vaguely Connors-esque strokes is an outlier. Shapovalov has the trappings of it, but he's pretty inconsistent and his net game, while decent relatively to his peers, wouldn't have rated at all if he was in the 80's or 90's. There's a few others, Hurkacz and Humbert, but ... yeah, not really.
What we mostly have is a bunch of pseudo-Djokovic-esque clones. They're not as varied, as tactical, or as well rounded as Novak, though.
So, no we won't see that again in terms of style and level (of that style).
The Dark Knight
Legend
Here we go……you realize that maybe here in your TW bubble with some biased admins to help you that you may be in the majority ; however the rest of the world does not agree with you .
In fact Federer is not even considered the second best player anymore .
so let your bubble pop. Break out of your matrix bubble and take the correct pill .
Sweatii_yetii
Rookie
My mistake, 2013 was the year
Sweatii_yetii
Rookie
I was speaking to a younger tennis fan (age 20 I believe) and he was telling me that no one was able to beat fed when he was at his best. I replied with “Federer was extremely tough to beat but there was a kid from Spain that would rain on his parade more often then not” there h2h has since become much closer but it was quite lopsided for awhile.
I don’t understand this forums obsessions with “GOAT” status. All 3 are undeniably tennis super heroes. Arguing on a forum whose best seems pointless.
THUNDERVOLLEY
G.O.A.T.
Only one completely ignorant of basic tennis history would not know what the Grand Slam is. Hint: its the zenith of the sport--and Federer was never going to be on the level required to win it.
Facts/numbers say it all. There's no amount of twisting that can take away what Federer has achieved during his peak years.
You can create what ever list if you want to
Cantconvert2MP
Rookie
moving the goal post again ??? 
hard to be a fed fans these last 10 years..
hard to be a fed fans these last 10 years..
initialize
Hall of Fame
I mean, Fed's insurmountable peak is pretty undisputed, no? That's why his serve, forehand, volleys, slice, footwork, etc, is the best among the Big 3moving the goal post again ???
hard to be a fed fans these last 10 years..
Cantconvert2MP
Rookie
"insurmountable peak"
sad state Fed fans are in for 10 years straight... this is "how to cope with desillusion" school case at this point.
initialize
Hall of Fame
It's true though. Plus you failed to refute the second sentence which you know is true"insurmountable peak"
sad state Fed fans are in for 10 years straight... this is "how to cope with desillusion" school case at this point.
The Dark Knight
Legend
I see ; however even though I am a rabid Nadal fan I would have to say that although on paper Nadal is the goat I hate to admit it but in reality I think Joker is the goat and I believe that he will prove it …..Nadal is probably #2 although I love Rafas style the best .
As much as people will kill me I truly believe that Federer is #3 . He has had more time than the others and won the FO on a fluke ……..furthermore at the beginning of his slam run when he won the most his biggest rival was Roddick. Nadal only knew how to play on clay .
I’m conclusion I think you can debate who is greater Nadal or Joker but I think it’s very clear to the outside world that Federer is # 3……not here in the Matrix of course .
initialize
Hall of Fame
Tell me you were born in the year 2000 or later without telling me you were born in the year 2000 or later
RS
Bionic Poster
Just needed to let some people know
Having fewer weak points usually means you're a better player. It's Federer's weak points that allowed Nadal and Djokovic to disrupt his offence throughout his career.
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
Proof or GTFO. Top 100 OE style comparison when?
socallefty
G.O.A.T.
I’ve been watching pro tournaments live in person at the LA Open and Indian Wells for more than 25 years - seen all the greats many times. I’ve been watching pro tennis on TV since the late Seventies. To my eyes, Djokovic played by far the highest level of tennis I have ever seen in 2015-16 at Indian Wells - I don’t think that is a very controversial opinion considering his dominance in that period.
My controversial take would be that the Federer of 2015-16 was as good or better than when he dominated a decade prior against much weaker players. Federer agrees with me according to his interviews, but his TTW fans don’t. That’s what my ‘lying eyes’ told me.
My controversial take would be that the Federer of 2015-16 was as good or better than when he dominated a decade prior against much weaker players. Federer agrees with me according to his interviews, but his TTW fans don’t. That’s what my ‘lying eyes’ told me.
ImmorTAL Big 3
Semi-Pro
If we talk peak why not Borg 1978-80 or Johny Mac 84 .So it's quite subjective
Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
I have feeling it will be by 2008. Can't wait.
The same way Fed got wiped out in Wimby final that year?
ghostofMecir
Legend
Not when Federer played at his highest peaks. Between Federer and Djoko and Nadal (especially Djokovic) Federer has the most lopsided victories.
Crazy Finn
Hall of Fame
Honestly, I tended to root against Roddick and wasn't a fan, but he was pretty good and frankly, could more than compete with the current lineup at the top of the ATP right now.
Cantconvert2MP
Rookie
Cantconvert2MP
Rookie
Roddick was awfull..
- 0 bh
- Cant do volley for such a server
- Terrible gameplan and tactitian "imma hit harder and serve even harder", dude was a headless chicken in court
Only his fh was decent.
initialize
Hall of Fame
Which is crazy considering he still leads in the H2H department over a near-prime Djokovic
UnderratedSlam
G.O.A.T.
And even if that did happen, you'd open a thread saying "RF is still greatest coz he's the most ambassadoriest of the sportiest of the Big 3, and he loves children and he is loved and he is poetry and he is Swiss and I like him better and Djokovic is a joke and Rafa is a buttpicking peasant and and and.. coz I say so!!!"
initialize
Hall of Fame
No I'd be happy since Rafa is my favorite of the Big 3
UnderratedSlam
G.O.A.T.
Uncle Toni says "Bool-sheed."
UnderratedSlam
G.O.A.T.
When tennis champions become decided by jury vote as in ice-skating and Miss World competitions, then and only then will OP be right.
Provided the juries vote for the Fed.
Until then, tennis decides. It's still a sport, not a beauty contest, thank God...
Provided the juries vote for the Fed.
Until then, tennis decides. It's still a sport, not a beauty contest, thank God...
“Near-Prime? That’s a new phrase, considering Novak had a rep for injury retirements, running out of gas , etc during most of their matchup years…
Djokovic really hit his stride and first became #1 in 2011. He had a 2-1 edge over Roddick from 2010 onward.
Roddick was OK, but could lose to the likes of journeymen like Muller, Joaquin Johansson , etc at Majors in his own prime.
They used to say the same thing about Bjorn Borg back in the day. Despite that he's an ATG.
Champions don't just fit "one" mold, as much as Federer fanatics claim they need to follow in Federer's footsteps. There are many players with different styles throughout tennis history, just like in any other sport.
Crazy Finn
Hall of Fame
That's all completely accurate, and yet he'd be a competitor in this field. The current top end of the ATP are more backcourt grinders, but they're not tactical geniuses for the most part - outside of Rafa, Novak, and Fed. I'm not saying he'd win a bunch of slams, but he'd fit just fine in the top 10.
Berrettini is basically a current edition Roddick. Not as a big a serve, maybe bigger forehand, but otherwise not dissimilar.
There has ALWAYS been a version of this type of player. With Andy Roddick you had players like Taylor Dent, pre you had Goran Ivanisevic, Roscoe Tanner and so forth and so on. Milos Raonic also comes to mind.
TripleATeam
G.O.A.T.
No, because people will never accept reality if/ when it happens/happened.
Crazy Finn
Hall of Fame
Yup. That's very true.
jackson vile
G.O.A.T.
Ultron already did it
socallefty
G.O.A.T.
Did the OP not watch the BOAT in 2015-16? Oh, God, please save us from ignorant fans who cant appreciate tennis quality without being biased by their favorites. I make the plea even though I don’t particularly believe in the Almighty.
TearTheRoofOff
G.O.A.T.
OK, Roddick and bread together in a tag team lead the head to head over Djokovic.
