When will the players start running around their FHs?

[torpantennis]

Assume this situation: You're in a middle of a CC FH rally. Then the opponent hits a bit weaker shot that leaves a bit short and too much in the center. Your opponent would be in trouble if you could hit the next ball early off the bounce, DTL into his BH corner. Your problem just is that you need to wait for that ball to pass you from left to right in front of you, before you can attempt that killer FH DTL. Then the ball is also further to the right after you've waited for it to come to you FH side, so you've build pressure for youself to hit that tough FH DTL, over the highest part of the net.

My question: If you have time, wouldn't it be advantageous to run around your FH in this case and hit a BH instead? The BH would travel over a lower part of the net, because you could hit it earlier off the bounce that a FH. Also, that BH would be an INSIDE shot, so it would be a lot easier to change direction of the ball with the INSIDE BH than with the DTL FH. Is there a reason why we don't see this in the pro game? Is there a reason why a 3.5 player shouldn't use this?

 

[chrisberchris]

When a ball lands short it would be most advantageous to take as much time away from him. Get to it fast and put it away. Hitting a backhand from that position would allow you to hit behind him, assuming your opponent will be moving towards the open court. Then again, if he reads it correctly, you'll be stuck in no man's land and he'll have more options to get it past you. A fh dtl would allow you to hit away from him and approach off of it by either putting it away with a volley to the open court, or smash it. I would think that most of the time you would only get a weak response from hitting dtl.

 

[chrisberchris]

When a ball lands short it would be most advantageous to take as much time away from him. Get to it fast and put it away. Hitting a backhand from that position would allow you to hit behind him, assuming your opponent will be moving towards the open court. Then again, if he reads it correctly, you'll be stuck in no man's land and he'll have more options to get it past you. A fh dtl would allow you to hit away from him and approach off of it by either putting it away with a volley to the open court, or smash it. I would think that most of the time you would only get a weak response from hitting dtl.

 

[TennisCJC]

You see this sometimes on WTA but I have yet to see ATP player that runs around their FH to hit a BH. Azarenka and Radwanska have both stepped around FH to hit BH off short balls as well as a few others.

 

[torpantennis]

You see this sometimes on WTA but I have yet to see ATP player that runs around their FH to hit a BH. Azarenka and Radwanska have both stepped around FH to hit BH off short balls as well as a few others.

Why do you think so few pros do it? Doesn't one of the Wardlaw directionals state that you should only change direction of the ball on inside strokes, i.e you shouldn't hit DTL FH into an incoming CC ball, but rather run around and hit a BH that's an inside shot there?

 

[TennisCJC]

Well, it is easier to hit CC but most pros can hit shorter balls CC, DTL or inside out. And, most pros have a larger contact range for an aggressive topspin shot on the FH in that they can take it from the knees to the cap bill and hit a hard topspin shot while the BH usually does not have as large an aggressive hitting zone. And, in general FHs are better - practiced more, more confidence, more RHS, can be hit more open stance, contact can be later.

Some one like Djokovic could possible use your tactice but he usually runs around his BH. Even his great 2 hbh requires a bigger shoulder turn and he doesn't hit as much spin off the BH.

A great 1BH would have to take it early before it gets too high and they have to hit it well in front. They can hit their FH later and still be aggressive.

I don't think we are going to see too many ATP players running around the BHs.

 

[torpantennis]

But that hitting later with the DTL FH is bad when you get a weak ball. The opponent gets more free time to recover, and it will be riskier to then hit DTL, because it opens up the other side of the court. Exactly player like Djokovic with a good 2HBH should maybe hit a BH into that weak ball, to hit earlier than on FH?

 

[mightyrick]

Is there a reason why a 3.5 player shouldn't use this?

Yeah, because even if you go inside-in and keep the get the ball in court, you've now opened up the entire court and given your opponent a chance to hit an easy cross-court forehand... which will force you to make yet another desperate shot.

I think the best thing would be to hit a BH cross-court (probably highest percentage) or a BH down-the-line.

The only time I think an inside-in FH DTL would be the right move would be if your opponent was pulled completely off the court. In that situation, you could safely run around and hit a safe DTL... maybe even angled slightly towards the middle a bit.

 

[arche3]

Why do you think so few pros do it? Doesn't one of the Wardlaw directionals state that you should only change direction of the ball on inside strokes, i.e you shouldn't hit DTL FH into an incoming CC ball, but rather run around and hit a BH that's an inside shot there?

Just because you run around the bh to hit ft dtl doesn't mean it is not an inside ball. It is simply an inside ball that you move around to hit your stronger stroke. This is a bread and butter shot that you drill to death. It is in fact advisable to hit the fh dtl. There are a lot of nuance to the directional and it is not meant to be an absolute. It all depends on the skill level of the player.

The ball will travel where it travels. If you are fast enough you can hit the stronger fh at the same place in space as the bh. Assuming a weaker shorter ball. So there is really no downside.

 

[torpantennis]

Let me just draw a court. I'll then mark with a "X" the weak ball I'm talking about, and by "O" the stronger CC balls I was talking about. Give me few mins...

 

[torpantennis]

So here's a scheme of the rally, and the weak ball I'm talking about. The CC FH rally ball bounce marks are marked with "X" and the weak ball by the opponent with "O". And let "A" be the point of contact of the FH, and "B" the point of contact of the BH, onto the weak ball "O":

----------------
| . . . . | . . . . |
| .X. . . . . . . . |
| . . . . . . . . . |
| _ _ _ _ _ _ _ |
| . . . . | . . . . |
| . . . . | . . . . |
| . . . . | . . . . |
| . . . . | . . . . |
| _ _ _ | _ _ _ |
| . . . . | . . . . |
| . . . . | . . . . |
| . . . . | . . . . |
| . . . . |O . . . |
| _ _ _ _ _ _ _ |
| . . . . . . B . . |
| . . . . . . . . . |
| . . . . . . . XA |
| . . . . | . . . . |
---------------

There we have our court. Ready to play? :lol:

So I don't get it. Why wouldn't it be wise to hit that ball early off the bounce at "B" with a BH, rather than waiting for the ball to come to "A" to hit a FH?

 

[arche3]

So here's a scheme of the rally, and the weak ball I'm talking about. The CC FH rally ball bounce marks are marked with "X" and the weak ball by the opponent with "O". And let "A" be the point of contact of the FH, and "B" the point of contact of the BH, onto the weak ball "O":

----------------
| . . . . | . . . . |
| .X. . . . . . . . |
| . . . . . . . . . |
| _ _ _ _ _ _ _ |
| . . . . | . . . . |
| . . . . | . . . . |
| . . . . | . . . . |
| . . . . | . . . . |
| _ _ _ | _ _ _ |
| . . . . | . . . . |
| . . . . | . . . . |
| . . . . | . . . . |
| . . . . |O . . . |
| _ _ _ _ _ _ _ |
| . . . . . . B . . |
| . . . . . . . . . |
| . . . . . . . XA |
| . . . . | . . . . |
---------------

There we have our court. Ready to play? :lol:

So I don't get it. Why wouldn't it be wise to hit that ball early off the bounce at "B" with a BH, rather than waiting for the ball to come to "A" to hit a FH?

You wouldn't wait for the ball the get to A to hit a fh. You would step forward and to the left and towards O say left of B. and rip it fh dtl to the opponents bh. This is basic strategy. Watch the pros. Watch good juniors. Watch good rec players. It's bread and butter as I said.

My advice for my son whom I coach is to never wait for the ball. You make the ball do what you want by moving into the optimal position to hit the optimal shot in any circumstance.

 

[torpantennis]

Just because you run around the bh to hit ft dtl doesn't mean it is not an inside ball. It is simply an inside ball that you move around to hit your stronger stroke. This is a bread and butter shot that you drill to death. It is in fact advisable to hit the fh dtl. There are a lot of nuance to the directional and it is not meant to be an absolute. It all depends on the skill level of the player.

The ball will travel where it travels. If you are fast enough you can hit the stronger fh at the same place in space as the bh. Assuming a weaker shorter ball. So there is really no downside.

That's a big if. Wouldn't hitting a BH be a tad bit less demanding for movement. Also, if you don't immediately figure out that it's a short ball, you'd be in a hurry to run forward AND runaround the ball. Wouldn't it be much simpler AT REC LEVEL to just take two steps forward/right, and hit that ball as a BH?

 

[arche3]

That's a big if. Wouldn't hitting a BH be a tad bit less demanding for movement. Also, if you don't immediately figure out that it's a short ball, you'd be in a hurry to run forward AND runaround the ball. Wouldn't it be much simpler AT REC LEVEL to just take two steps forward/right, and hit that ball as a BH?

I'm assuming the player is skilled enough for a slower and shorter ball.

 

[torpantennis]

I'm assuming the player is skilled enough for a slower and shorter ball.

What if you were coaching an almost beginner, what'd you advice him to do?

 

[Topspin Shot]

What if you were coaching an almost beginner, what'd you advice him to do?

An absolute beginner wouldn't be capable of either play.

 

[arche3]

An absolute beginner wouldn't be capable of either play.

Yeah this. A beginner I would have stay put and hit cross court.

 

[torpantennis]

An absolute beginner wouldn't be capable of either play.

Sure. But in-between, where I'm now, I feel that the BH is much easier to hit. Of course I get out-positioned, but if the BH is good enough then the opponent cannot do much, if anything. Strange that this option is never teached, I think it could be the best strategy for most of players?

 

[arche3]

Sure. But in-between, where I'm now, I feel that the BH is much easier to hit. Of course I get out-positioned, but if the BH is good enough then the opponent cannot do much, if anything. Strange that this option is never teached, I think it could be the best strategy for most of players?

Well another reason you should hit the fh is you can hit the outside of the ball as you hit dtl. This gives a slight arc back into the court. Whereas a bh will slide towards the sideline (towards out) the fh will curve slightly in. But even if you hit dead on the ball it still won't curve out. It's all foot work basically. If you can run around it. Do. If not. Dont. Strength to the weakness. Fh on short ball into the bh.

 

[mightyrick]

---------------------
| . . . . | . . . . |
| .X. . . . . . . . |
| . . . . . . . . . |
| _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ |
| . . . . | . . . . |
| . . . . | . . . . |
| . . . . | . . . . |
| . . . . | . . . . |
| _ _ _ _ | _ _ _ _ |
| . . . . | . . . . |
| . . . . | . . . . |
| . . . . | . . . . |
| . . . . | O . . . |
| _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ |
| . . . . . . B . . |
| . . . . . . . . . |
| . . . . . . . XA. |
| . . . . | . . . . |
---------------------

There we have our court. Ready to play? :lol:

So I don't get it. Why wouldn't it be wise to hit that ball early off the bounce at "B" with a BH, rather than waiting for the ball to come to "A" to hit a FH?

torpantennis, in the situation you just outlined, you'd 100% hit a FH. Either a cross-court or DTL. You are describing a sitter when you are stepping into the court to get it.

As someone else said, the ball would come in, you'd step diagonally forward and to the left. Then, you'd take your pick of the FH shot you want to hit. DTL, CC, or drop-shot.

This is a very cut-and-dried scenario.

The only situation I could see hitting a backhand would be if the player in question is LEFT-HANDED.

 

[thebluereverend]

Run around the forehand!? I'm pretty sure that's illegal.

 

[Maximagq]

You wouldn't wait for the ball the get to A to hit a fh. You would step forward and to the left and towards O say left of B. and rip it fh dtl to the opponents bh. This is basic strategy. Watch the pros. Watch good juniors. Watch good rec players. It's bread and butter as I said.

My advice for my son whom I coach is to never wait for the ball. You make the ball do what you want by moving into the optimal position to hit the optimal shot in any circumstance.

Dat picture doe.

 

[arche3]

Dat picture doe.

Yeah the pic was using ASCll
kinda boss old school. Lol.

 

[TennisCJC]

But that hitting later with the DTL FH is bad when you get a weak ball. The opponent gets more free time to recover, and it will be riskier to then hit DTL, because it opens up the other side of the court. Exactly player like Djokovic with a good 2HBH should maybe hit a BH into that weak ball, to hit earlier than on FH?

Even Djoko has more spin and a bigger aggressive contact area on his FH. I don't think we will see him running around FH to hit his BH any time soon.

I have seen a couple of rec 4.0 to 4.5+ level who would run around their FH to hit 2hbh but yet to see a male pro do it at least on a semi-consistent basis.