Where are the 4.5 women's players

[10sany1]

This is my first posting. Thought I'd say hello. Hello...

My question is this where are all of the 4.5 women's players. I recently decided to stop playing league ( to much politics). Instead I wanted to focus on improving my game, entering tournaments and playing ultimate tennis and USTA flex league. Well...were are all of the 4.5 players. Not a one signed up for ultimate tennis or the flex league and the tournament draws are small to non-existent. There are plenty of men, of course, up through the 5.5 level. So do I keep improving my game or should I just hang with the 3.5/4.0 gals.

Would love to hear form other strong women players.

 

[MariaS]

I think women tend to stick with their old teams and their friends whether it's competitive or not. I can remember calling 6-7 players wanting to hit or play a match (not usta). Not a one.
I tried joining a usta single's team; there were only 1-2 and they were filled. Go figure. :neutral:

 

[cghipp]

I only know a couple of 4.5 women in my hometown, and a couple of additional 4.0 women who were just bumped down from 4.5. I think there just aren't that many 4.5s out there! I hope I never get bumped to 4.5, though I'd love to be that good, because it would be much, much harder to find matches.

 

[Kaptain Karl]

Our ladies have their own Rec Ladder. The top woman is a 5.0. The three next-best women are 3.5s.

The 3.5s play in Leagues. The 5.0 plays with us guys a lot.

- KK

 

[raiden031]

What happens to all the former college players? Do they just stop playing completely once they graduate?

 

[Cruzer]

This is my first posting. Thought I'd say hello. Hello...

My question is this where are all of the 4.5 women's players. I recently decided to stop playing league ( to much politics). Instead I wanted to focus on improving my game, entering tournaments and playing ultimate tennis and USTA flex league. Well...were are all of the 4.5 players. Not a one signed up for ultimate tennis or the flex league and the tournament draws are small to non-existent. There are plenty of men, of course, up through the 5.5 level. So do I keep improving my game or should I just hang with the 3.5/4.0 gals.

Would love to hear form other strong women players.

It appears that you live in the Norcal section of USTA I would speculate that there are realtively few 4.5 women since the ratings in Norcal took a downward turn across the board several years ago. In the area I play in there used to be a 4.5 women's league however now there are so few 4.5 women that there aren't enough to make up a team, let alone a league. The players that used to be rated as 4.5 are still playing but today they are 4.0 players.
The Ultimate Tennis and Flex League things are still relatively new in Norcal and probably have not attracted a large number of players. If you start playing tournaments you will soon find out that the same relatively small group of people play all the tournaments. I used to play more tournaments but the cost keeps going up and the time commitment (travel, playing, and waiting to play) is almost as bad as playing golf.

 

[10sany1]

Yes, I live in the Norcal Section. Yes, it is true Norcal did take a downward turn a few years back, but I think they are now recovering. The top 4.0 players are annihilating the average 4.0 players, they need to move them up. The lower 4.0 players consistently beat the better 3.5s.

I am hoping the Flex league and Ultimate tennis will pick up after a time.

I took a look at the open tournament standings and most of the women (28 of them) are 4.5/5.0 or juniors. I like tournaments, but yes it is a heavy time commitment. Organizers are pretty good about accommodating scheduling requests, especially for the women's draw.

Maybe Norcal should start Coed leagues :0. Instead of the 2 women's double, 1 singles (higher rankings). They could have 1 mixed, 1 women's double, 1 men's doubles, 1 men's singles, 1 women's singles. Or better yet, let women play men .
Maybe then you would get more than 2/3 teams playing round robbins.

 

[autumn_leaf]

Our ladies have their own Rec Ladder. The top woman is a 5.0. The three next-best women are 3.5s.

The 3.5s play in Leagues. The 5.0 plays with us guys a lot.

- KK

going of of KK's post see if you can join the mens, i haven't seen that many women being competitive in tennis in the New England area i thinks that's pretty general for tennis. there are a few exceptions like yourself but it's just more common with men. i would definitely play with the men if there were no women at your level. and always aim to improve yourself if you feel like otherwise you would just be settling at a lower level to get a game in.

 

[goober]

In my area women's tournaments top out at 4.0 for NTRP. All the 4.5+ women play open and there are not that many of those. The typical womens draw for open events is less than 8 and I would say half the time don't have even one person sign up. A lot of them are involved in league played though. In 9.0 mixed, they are highly sought after

 

[duketennisgal]

I'm a 4.5 woman and I have no luck find tourneys that make a draw. Usually I just have to play mixed doubles.

Last year the best tournament I played in had 7 women signed up, but it was the state closed tournament, after that I found one tourney that had 3 women signed up.

I don't know where everybody is at, when I ask the tournament directors they always give me the same answer, 4.5 women around here don't like to play in tournaments.

I don't know what the deal is but it's very annoying to me.

 

[Nellie]

I note that as tennis players get better, they get cliquey - so that you cannot join an established group without knowing someone in that group. I have had some luck meeting other players at doubles mixers at various clubs, but the club set tends to be older.

 

[bluegrasser]

Q: - ..are there any mixed doubles leagues, say 8.0 or 9.0 - this way your competition will be better. Here in the miniapple we have quite a few mixed leagues.

 

[Julieta]

I'm assuming you're under 35. Things get a little better when you get over 35. All of the people I know from NorCal play age group and some play mixed USTA.

Here in the US, tennis loses a lot of players in their 20s. That time post college can be very tough to find competitive play and with working and what not it is not easy. It is just not that big of a sport here. I didn't play much at all except with some guys I knew and a few ladies. Finding some guys to play sevens and elevens and stuff like that is the best I think.

Do you have any city leagues? That is another option.

 

[Julieta]

What happens to all the former college players? Do they just stop playing completely once they graduate?

I would imagine it is even worse now with the new guidelines. I know of a player who is 22 or so and has to rate at 5.5 - she is nowhere near a 5.5 - so no USTA for her and she isn't competitive in opens against all of the academy kids. Once you start that full time job (unless you're a teaching pro but even then its hard) and the brain is fried it makes a huge difference.

 

[rasajadad]

All the 4.5 women in my area play age group tournaments rather than NTRP events or leagues,

 

[10sany1]

I do wish there was a way to get more woman to step out of the friends only safety zone.

I do wonder what would encourage them. Any ideas?

Yes, I agree open and age level tournaments is the place to go for me. Mixed may also be fun (again I am reluctant to return to league-I need a break from politics after a hard week at work).

Maybe I'll try oneclicktennis and play with the boys.

 

[spot]

the 4.5 women I know have more fun playing with guys. There just aren't that many strong women around to make for a fun league it seems.

 

[Topaz]

In my area, there is a somewhat large women's 4.5 league (at least 8 teams). I would say 2/3rds of them are 4.5s, and the rest are 4.0s playing up. There is a lot of 9.0 mixed as well.

I know three of the women, and beyond club tournaments, I don't think any of them have played opens or age group.

Now, in the area to the south of me, I know there are quite a few higher level women, some who even play national tournaments.

I think it depends on where you live as well.

I have no answer to the phenomenon of why no women sign up for tournaments though...that seems to be a problem here as well.

 

[Joeyg]

I also live and play in NorCal. You should try and find a mixed 9.0 or 10.0 team and make contacts that way. The strong 4.5 and 5.0 women almost all play in the higher level mixed leagues in Norcal. What area do you normally play in. I might have some contacts for you to try.

 

[SB]

In my area, there is a somewhat large women's 4.5 league (at least 8 teams). I would say 2/3rds of them are 4.5s, and the rest are 4.0s playing up. There is a lot of 9.0 mixed as well.

I know three of the women, and beyond club tournaments, I don't think any of them have played opens or age group.

Now, in the area to the south of me, I know there are quite a few higher level women, some who even play national tournaments.

I think it depends on where you live as well.

I have no answer to the phenomenon of why no women sign up for tournaments though...that seems to be a problem here as well.

In my experience ... women just participate in fewer tournaments because the time demands are tough. If I don't have child care, it's impossible. And if you advance into the tournament, you have to be available for so many hours ... it's hard to plan.

And then you feel guilty because everything has to revolve around your tennis schedule for the weekend, and that isn't usually how women with families operate. Most of the women I know who play a lot of tournaments either don't have families, or the kids have grown up and moved out.

I find that a lot of the higher-level women don't play because of a few reasons. Burnout is one. Small or nonexistent draws is another ... or you get lumped in with the Open draw and have to play DI college girls. No thank you.

We have quite a few 4.5 teams in leagues here, but it's a situation where the lack of 5.0s really drives the downward appeals. You can hardly play ANYthing if you're a 5.0 woman, so no one wants to move up to 5.0, so they always appeal down, so when the 4.0s move up to 4.5, they know they'll be playing a bunch of should-be 5.0s, so THEY appeal down, etc etc.

There is definitely a problem with the ceiling of USTA pushing down the other levels. I guess it all evens out eventually, except I get tired of playing the SAME players all the time. It would be nice to have new 4.5s to beat up on instead of always losing 4 and 4 to the should-be 5.0s. ;-)

 

[10sany1]

Yes, I agree that family concerns affect women's tournaments. I am fortunate that my 8 year old likes to watch and we goof around when I am waiting to play the next round. Of course, don't men have kids too ?

I would really like to find away to encourage more woman to play. I try to get all my friends to sign-up.

Some of the better tournaments are getting better about scheduling. They are more realistic about scheduling so that you are not wasting time, etc.

I also agree that there are a lot of people that appeal down so that they have a team to play on.

As for mixed...I am not a doubles player, but I am trying. It is a very different game, both in strategy and in the type of mental toughness you need.

 

[raiden031]

I would really like to find away to encourage more woman to play. I try to get all my friends to sign-up.

In my county league, the majority of the players are women (54%) and teams range from 2.5 to 4.0, whereas men's teams range from 3.0 to 4.5.

There is certainly a shortage of *skilled* women tennis players but not a shortage of women players. Probably has to do with men being more competitive by nature and alot of women play more socially. Players who are playing socially are not going to reach skilled levels of play because it takes some serious dedication to do so.

 

[10sany1]

I agree woman probably do like the more social aspects of the game. However, I do like to joke if it is just for fun why do we keep score

 

[Topaz]

In my county league, the majority of the players are women (54%) and teams range from 2.5 to 4.0, whereas men's teams range from 3.0 to 4.5.

There is certainly a shortage of *skilled* women tennis players but not a shortage of women players. Probably has to do with men being more competitive by nature and alot of women play more socially. Players who are playing socially are not going to reach skilled levels of play because it takes some serious dedication to do so.

Raiden, do you ever make a post that doesn't insult the intentions and/or skill level of female tennis players? EVER?

I'd love to see one.

Your county isn't so far from mine, yet my county has no shortage of female 4.5s, and *skilled* women tennis players. And I bet your area has no shortage of male players who exaggerate their skill level, as well.

 

[raiden031]

Raiden, do you ever make a post that doesn't insult the intentions and/or skill level of female tennis players? EVER?

I'd love to see one.

Your county isn't so far from mine, yet my county has no shortage of female 4.5s, and *skilled* women tennis players. And I bet your area has no shortage of male players who exaggerate their skill level, as well.

How is this an insult to female tennis players? If there were just as many skilled female players, why do they not have 4.5 teams in my county? There are 1100 players registered for USTA league play here just in the adult league.

If there were as many 4.5s as you claim, why do threads like this even exist?

EDIT: Sorry I am not politically correct enough for you. I don't see you speaking out against every other statement on this board that generalizes women.

 

[Kaptain Karl]

... no shortage of male players who exaggerate their skill level, as well.

[Sputter! ... Gasp! ... Choke!]

You mean guys ... "embellish" ... their level of ability? This is news to me...!

- KK

 

[goober]

[Sputter! ... Gasp! ... Choke!]

You mean guys ... "embellish" ... their level of ability? This is news to me...!

- KK

On Tennis forums- yes.

In USTA play- I usually see only the opposite.

"What? You played D1 college tennis, and teach tennis for a living and you are only 4.5?"

"Yes"

 

[Topaz]

[Sputter! ... Gasp! ... Choke!]

You mean guys ... "embellish" ... their level of ability? This is news to me...!

- KK

Among other things, yes!

On Tennis forums- yes.

In USTA play- I usually see only the opposite.

"What? You played D1 college tennis, and teach tennis for a living and you are only 4.5?"

"Yes"

Ha! Good distinction Goober.

I know a few pros, one of them female, who are playing 4.5 this year.

 

[Topaz]

How is this an insult to female tennis players? If there were just as many skilled female players, why do they not have 4.5 teams in my county? There are 1100 players registered for USTA league play here just in the adult league.

If there were as many 4.5s as you claim, why do threads like this even exist?

EDIT: Sorry I am not politically correct enough for you. I don't see you speaking out against every other statement on this board that generalizes women.

Because you demean their effort...so what if they are not skilled enough for you. Their effort is just as valuable as a man's effort, yet it seems every time I read one of your posts, you are saying something derogatory about women who play tennis, whether it is league or pro.

Raiden, I think you know enough about me to know my district. We have NINE 4.5 women's teams. Go look it up if you don't believe me. The skill is there...just because you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't there. And even when it is there, you still seem to not value or respect it, just because you *think* you are better.

This isn't a matter of being politically correct. Again, my opinion, but I've read just too many posts from you where you have some kind of put down or demeaning little remark about the quality of women's tennis. And you say it as if you are so much better. It doesn't matter at the end of the day, if you are 2.5 or 5.0, if you are disrespectful of someone else's effort. If they want to play socially and don't care about matches, what is the harm in that? That is their decision, and who are you to judge? If you are in it for different reasons, that's fine, too.

But I can tell you with great certainty, that there are *plenty* of women out there working very hard to improve their games, and when you lump all women players in to the 'social chatty' group, it tends to tick me off.

 

[Ace]

As a 4.0 woman, I have to agree with Raiden.
4.0 and below isn't really considered "skilled". If you are reasonably athletic, you can reach 4.0 as an adult learner pretty easy.
4.5 and up is really what I consider "skilled", for both men and women. It takes a little more time and effort to get to that level or above. And to most D1 college players, 4.5 really isn't all that impressive either.

And Raiden just stated a fact, there are no 4.5 ladies teams in his district.

When I was a 3.0, I used to think 4.0 was the be-all end-all (for a 30-40 something, anyway). Then my league night started coinciding with the 4.5 ladies matches, which was about 1/2 4.0 teams, and the other half of the teams had real 4.5's on them. Man, you can really see the difference between the 4.5's and 4.0's. 4.0's look pretty good, hitting the ball hard, decent consistency, but 4.5's just look fluid and natural, with more consistency and quickness. Noticeable difference.

 

[SJS]

In my county league, the majority of the players are women (54%) and teams range from 2.5 to 4.0, whereas men's teams range from 3.0 to 4.5.

There is certainly a shortage of *skilled* women tennis players but not a shortage of women players. Probably has to do with men being more competitive by nature and alot of women play more socially. Players who are playing socially are not going to reach skilled levels of play because it takes some serious dedication to do so.

There are 4.5 women in your area, they're just not playing in your league. That league consists of five 4.5 women's teams and six 3.0 womens teams. No other levels and no mens teams.

 

[raiden031]

There are 4.5 women in your area, they're just not playing in your league. That league consists of five 4.5 women's teams and six 3.0 womens teams. No other levels and no mens teams.

what league are you talking about? In my league the skill divisions that exist each year is dependent on demand. A few years ago they had 5.0 men's tennis but got rid of it because there wasn't enough players. Obviously if there were alot of 4.5 women, they'd have a team for that level. Instead the few out there are only playing mixed or playing in other counties.

 

[shell]

I think few 4.5s play league is because of players playing up levels. If most of your matches are going to be against 4.0s playing up, then it is better to just play amongst the small group that you have as 4.5s. It is difficult to go out every week and play against players that don't play your same game, and try to keep the competitive fire alive.

Mixed is where it is at. The men hit harder, play harder and it is social and fun at the same time.

Sorry, but I think that is true.

 

[SJS]

what league are you talking about? In my league the skill divisions that exist each year is dependent on demand. A few years ago they had 5.0 men's tennis but got rid of it because there wasn't enough players. Obviously if there were alot of 4.5 women, they'd have a team for that level. Instead the few out there are only playing mixed or playing in other counties.

Forty West. Most likely they formed the league to have more teams to play against. Most are from around Baltimore but there are players from all over MD including Montgomery Cty & Annapolis. Four of the teams are solid 4.5's.

 

[raiden031]

Forty West. Most likely they formed the league to have more teams to play against. Most are from around Baltimore but there are players from all over MD including Montgomery Cty & Annapolis. Four of the teams are solid 4.5's.

Ok maybe Topaz can learn from you. Instead of twisting my post to mean something it doesn't mean and implying I'm sexist, she can point out all the surrounding 4.5 women's players that I didn't know about.

I think its weird that they need this league. Why not just have one of the larger surrounding leagues have a 4.5 women's flight? I found that Anne Arundel, Baltimore, and Howard all do not have one.