Where do you rank Nole in all time great on Hard Court ?

Nole is behind only to:

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Nole has tie Sampras with 36 and is 5th on all time most titles on hard court.

Most titles on hard court
1. Roger Federer 56
2. Andre Agassi 46
3. Jimmy Connors 45
4.Pete Sampras 36
=Novak Djokovic 36
6. Ivan Lendl 31
7. Andy Murray 25
8. Stefan Edberg 23
9. John McEnroe 22
10. Michael Chang 21
=Andy Roddick 21
 
4th seems about right at the moment, behind Fed, Sampras and Agassi.

Nole needs a couple of more HC Slam titmes and I'd put him just below Federer at #2.
 
My Tennis history is not so great (certainly not compared to my Formula 1 history) but I can see the guy is clearly an all time great.

I really like his forehand stroke as well.

What surprised me about that most hardcourt titles list was seeing Andy Murray up at number 7. I didn't think he would be anywhere near the top 10. Very pleasant surprise :)

Where is Rafael Nadal? According to that list he must have less than 21, surprising for a guy with 3 hardcourt grand slams.
 
Nadal has 16 HC titles.

Not playing full HC seasons in 2012 and 2014 probably let him down, and the lack of Miami titles with 4 finals there. But he turns up for the slams though...
 
^^Thanks^^

Its surprising that he has less than Murray. I was sure I was reading that list wrong and making a fool of myself.
 
Well he has 9 masters so that leaves 16 250/500's. Strangely that equals Nadals total hardcourt count.

Anyway I have derailed the thread. Sorry.
 
What I don't understand about Murray's stats is that according to the ATP website he has 25 HC titles and 5 on grass but he's won 31 titles in total so on what surface does the other one come from? I thought he's never won a clay tournament. :confused:
 
Considering he only has 1 USO title, not too high. Certainly well below Fed/Agassi/Sampras. If he wants to reach immortality level on hard courts, hes gonna have to do more in Flushing (where he has been AVERAGE at best over the course of his career)
 
90's Clay said:
Considering he only has 1 USO title, not too high. Certainly well below Fed/Agassi/Sampras. If he wants to reach immortality level on hard courts, hes gonna have to do more in Flushing (where he has been AVERAGE at best over the course of his career)
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What's next? AO is no Slam? :lol:
 
SpinToWin said:
What's next? AO is no Slam? :lol:
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Well its kind of difficult to justify putting Nole near the top of HC GOATS when 90 some percent of his hardcourt slams came in Australia.

While, Agassi/Fed/Sampras had more than one on each. Hell, Nadal may have more than 1 on each before Nole does.

If he wants to be elite, hes gonna have to do more in New York PERIOD!!
 
90's Clay said:
Considering he only has 1 USO title, not too high. Certainly well below Fed/Agassi/Sampras. If he wants to reach immortality level on hard courts, hes gonna have to do more in Flushing (where he has been AVERAGE at best over the course of his career)
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Yevgeny strikes again. :roll:

LOL at making 8 SF in a row, 5 finals (1+4) and winning 1 title being called "average".

Agassi has only 1 title more.
 
90's Clay said:
Well its kind of difficult to justify putting Nole near the top of HC GOATS when 90 some percent of his hardcourt slams came in Australia.

While, Agassi/Fed/Sampras had more than one on each. Hell, Nadal may have more than 1 on each before Nole does
Click to expand...

Here's an interesting stat for you 90's Clay - Nole has now won as many Slams, WTFs and Masters as Sampras! :wink:
 
Chico said:
Yevgeny strikes again. :roll:

LOL at making 8 SF in a row, 5 finals (1+4) and winning 1 title being called "average".

Agassi has only 1 title more.
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"Average" in relation to what you expect out of Nole:shock: Like I said, 1 USO title just doesn't cut it for someone of Nole's caliber on Hardcourt.

So if he wants to be among the greatest ever on hards, hes gonna have to do more there
 
90's Clay said:
Considering he only has 1 USO title, not too high. Certainly well below Fed/Agassi/Sampras. If he wants to reach immortality level on hard courts, hes gonna have to do more in Flushing (where he has been AVERAGE at best over the course of his career)
Click to expand...

He has 4 AOs which makes up for the lack of multiple USOs.

At the end of the day he has 5 HC slams. USO isn't more special than AO, the same applies in reverse.
 
His career trajectory would suggest that he surpasses Agassi for the no 2 spot.
 
I'd rank Federer, Sampras, Agassi above him for now, about equal with Lendl. McEnroe and Connors would probably be up there too if they played more on HC.
 
Pocalypse said:
He has 4 AOs which makes up for the lack of multiple USOs.

At the end of the day he has 5 HC slams. USO isn't more special than AO, the same applies in reverse.
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No it doesn't. If you want to be considered a hc GOAT you have to have more than one win at the most important hc slam which is the USO!
 
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cc0509 said:
No it doesn't. If you want to be considered a hc GOAT you have to have more than one win at the most important hc slam which is the USO!
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Shouldn't the 4 RU Novak's had be equivalent to one more title cc0? :wink:
Where do you rank him right now babe? :)
 
Pocalypse said:
4th seems about right at the moment, behind Fed, Sampras and Agassi.

Nole needs a couple of more HC Slam titmes and I'd put him just below Federer at #2.
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Djokovic2011 said:
Pretty much my sentiments too. :)
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I think Lendl deservers a shout too. 8 US Open finals in a row (winning 3), 8 WTF (or the equivalent) finals in a row (winning 5) and less chances to accumulate HC slams as the AO was played on grass and not as important for most of his prime career (changed from grass in 88 iirc and he won it in both 89 and 90, his last two slams - pretty safe to presume he could have won a few in the mid 80's too).

Not sure I would rate him above Connors yet either (no AO on HC, but quite a few US Opens on HC).

By the end of his career, he very well could 2nd to Fed though.
 
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Currently #5 or #6.

Lets face it that one USO is really hurting him despite that everyone knows his capabilities. He needs to stop choking there. Literally does well at every other hard court tournament though except cincinatti.

Will probably rack up 2-3 more AO's and 1 more USO along with ALOT of masters. Might end up above agassi and sampras.
This thread should be revived in about 6-8 years when nole is ACTUALLY finished.
 
HailDjokovic said:
Currently #5 or #6.

Lets face it that one USO is really hurting him despite that everyone knows his capabilities. He needs to stop choking there. Literally does well at every other hard court tournament though except cincinatti.

Will probably rack up 2-3 more AO's and 1 more USO along with ALOT of masters. Might end up above agassi and sampras.
This thread should be revived in about 6-8 years when nole is ACTUALLY finished.
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Definitely agree with regards to the USO - it's so frustrating as a fan that he's only been able to win it once so far. I almost hope he gets another title there than at RG these days!
 
It still seems odd that he has only won 1 US Open. It feels like he should probably have won 2 of the last 3 and he won none.

Still a hell of a resumé as things stand.

4 Australian Opens (joint most in Open era)
1 US Open (+ 4 finals)
3 YECs
15 Masters Series' (almost certain to overtake Federer on 17)

Great outdoors and indoors. Only slight criticism would be underachievement in New York, but it does seem a bit harsh to call 1 title, 4 RUs and 8 semis in a row as underachieving, but that shows how good he is.

If he had won 2 of those last 3 US Opens and let's say he wins this year's YEC (all ifs, buts and maybes I know), then he would be heading towards Fed type numbers. He would be 4 AOs, 3 USOs and 4 YECs to Fed's 4 AOs, 5 USOs and 6 YECs. That situation wouldn't actually have felt out of place.
 
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HailDjokovic said:
Currently #5 or #6.

Lets face it that one USO is really hurting him despite that everyone knows his capabilities. He needs to stop choking there. Literally does well at every other hard court tournament though except cincinatti.

Will probably rack up 2-3 more AO's and 1 more USO along with ALOT of masters. Might end up above agassi and sampras.
This thread should be revived in about 6-8 years when nole is ACTUALLY finished.
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Agreed.

But Nole could rack up another 4 AO titles, and if he doesn't win another USO title that really hurts credibility.

He may be the best player ever in Australia (Arguable though since you still got Fed with 4 titles and Agassi and Agassi would have won more AO's had he played the tournament earlier in his career most likely) but hardcourt slams are played on faster courts with pace in USO too.

Nole is an elite SLOW hardcourt player (Arguably the best ever) but has a ways to go to be considered the overall greatest hardcourt player ever.
 
90's Clay said:
"Average" in relation to what you expect out of Nole:shock: Like I said, 1 USO title just doesn't cut it for someone of Nole's caliber on Hardcourt.

So if he wants to be among the greatest ever on hards, hes gonna have to do more there
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This really sums it up.
 
There is also no guarantee Nole will win another USO title. He definitely is gonna have to look better than he has the last few years if he expects to win it again
 
Excluding carpet:

There's Fed and Petros in the top tier, Open Era. Then Agassi, Djokovic, Lendl in some order in the next tier. Then Becker, Connors, Mac, Nadal in some order in the third tier. Then a fourth group with Wilander, Edberg, Safin, maybe Courier.

So Novak's definitely Top 5 Open Era on hard courts. Probably Top 8 if you add carpet into the mix (I'd put him conclusively behind Lendl, Mac, Connors were that the case - any of those three could go around to any city in the world and legitimately call themselves the Carpet King, even if some long-running local commercial suggested otherwise).
 
i don't care......who cares about artificial surfaces hardcourts? the real legacy lies with the traditional surfaces of wimbedon and french open......sampras will be remembered for his genius on grass and nadal and borg for clay......anybody can play on hardcourts but very few can play on clay and grass......
 
90's Clay said:
Considering he only has 1 USO title, not too high. Certainly well below Fed/Agassi/Sampras. If he wants to reach immortality level on hard courts, hes gonna have to do more in Flushing (where he has been AVERAGE at best over the course of his career)
Click to expand...

But Nole has 4 USO finals who's playing against goat Federer.
Sampras and Agassi got the benefit of playing the USO in their country with a huge supporting crowd.

Nole is much better than Sampras at the AO, only Agassi rival Nole.
 
I would still rank Djokovic below Lendl on hard courts as well at this moment in time, although he could easily overtake him in the not too distant future.
 
#6.

Roger, Pete, Agassi, Connors, Lendl are still ahead.

I would expect him to leapfrog at least Lendl before he retires, maybe Connors too.
 
Wow. 5-10 leads the poll. :shock: :shock: :shock: How can haters be so ridiculously obvious. Only haters can find 5 people who are over Djokovic on HCs, when he is clearly top 3 or at worst top 4, with clear indication he will be top 2 by the end of his career.

So much hate here. It is unbelievable. :mad:
 
Chico said:
Wow. 5-10 leads the poll. :shock: :shock: :shock: How can haters be so ridiculously obvious. Only haters can find 5 people who are over Djokovic on HCs, when he is clearly top 3 or at worst top 4, with clear indication he will be top 2 by the end of his career.

So much hate here. It is unbelievable. :mad:
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Did you just join yesterday? You don't even think Nadal is the KOC so have SEVERAL seats. Unbelievable hate indeed.
 
Chico said:
Wow. 5-10 leads the poll. :shock: :shock: :shock: How can haters be so ridiculously obvious. Only haters can find 5 people who are over Djokovic on HCs, when he is clearly top 3 or at worst top 4, with clear indication he will be top 2 by the end of his career.

So much hate here. It is unbelievable. :mad:
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Pls.

Roger has 9 HC Majors
Pete has 7
Agassi has 6
Connors has 6
Lendl has 5
All have way more match wins and other HC stats etc. than Novak.

Djoker has 5 HC majors. While very respectable, he needs more to be in the HC conversation with the above players. Fact.
Also, 1 USO? He needs at least 1-2 more, his current HC resume is very AO heavy.

I can see him reaching at least Agassi though, yes.
 
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Overall titles doesn't mean that much. It's better to favor tier 1 events:

Most slams on hard court:
1-Federer: 9
2-Sampras: 7
3-Agassi: 6
4-Lendl and Djoko: 5

Most masters (indoor/outdoor hard):
1-Federer: 17
2-Djokovic: 15
3-Agassi: 14
4-Lendl: 10

Most WTF (on hard):
1-Federer: 6
2-Djokovic: 3
(no one else has more than 2)

Fed is the clear #1 (atm because Djoko is still young after all). I would say Djoko is a clear #2 in best of 3 sets but 1 more slam on hard would help his cause overall. (I would add that in overall winning % on hard Djoko is also #2 after Fed. Fed: 82.8, Djoko: 82.7)
 
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Firstservingman said:
Pls.

Roger has 9 HC Majors
Pete has 7
Agassi has 6
Connors has 6
.
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Connors doesn't have 6 slams on hard court, he has 3.
1 of his US open titles was on grass and another one on clay. Yes, my friend, US open (like AO) hasn't always been played on hard!! AO 1974 was on grass of course
 
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veroniquem said:
Connors doesn't have 6 slams on hard court, he has 4.
1 of his US open titles was on grass and another one on clay. Yes, my friend, US open (like AO) hasn't always been played on hard!!
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Oh dear, I forgot about that. Guess Novak moves up a spot then!
Thanks for the extra info.

Does that mean Connors won the US on three different surfaces though?
That's an achievement in itself.
 
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