Where does Federer rank in open era claycourters?

[Cesc Fabregas]

imo 11th.

1.Borg
2.Nadal
3.Lendl
4.Wilander
5.Kuerten
6.Vilas
7.Muster
8.Courier
9.Brugeura
10.Ferrero
11.Federer

 

[GameSampras]

Great list....

No objections there.

 

[grafrules]

imo 11th.

1.Borg
2.Nadal
3.Lendl
4.Wilander
5.Kuerten
6.Vilas
7.Muster
8.Courier
9.Brugeura
10.Ferrero
11.Federer

1. Borg
2. Nadal
3. Kuerten
4. Lendl
5. Wilander
6. Vilas
7. Courier
8. Muster
9. Federer
10. Bruguera
11. Ferrero
12. Moya
13. Corretja
14. Agassi
15. Costa

Would be mine. So I would say 9th. Ferrero in no way deserves to rank over Federer on clay. At their peaks they are comparable, but Ferrero had a short peak due to injury and didnt achieve nearly enough to be over Federer on clay.

 

[grafselesfan]

imo 11th.

1.Borg
2.Nadal
3.Lendl
4.Wilander
5.Kuerten
6.Vilas
7.Muster
8.Courier
9.Brugeura
10.Ferrero
11.Federer

A pretty good list. I might have Kuerten higher though. The guy was on his way to winning 5 or 6 French Opens before injuries all but ended his career. He would have won 2 or 3 out of the 4 from 2002-2005 otherwise IMO, although definitely none after 2005.

 

[フェデラー]

well it doesnt matter Pete doesnt even rank in top 20

 

[Cesc Fabregas]

1. Borg
2. Nadal
3. Kuerten
4. Lendl
5. Wilander
6. Vilas
7. Courier
8. Muster
9. Federer
10. Bruguera
11. Ferrero
12. Moya
13. Corretja
14. Agassi
15. Costa

Would be mine. So I would say 9th. Ferrero in no way deserves to rank over Federer on clay. At their peaks they are comparable, but Ferrero had a short peak due to injury and didnt achieve nearly enough to be over Federer on clay.

Whilst Federer has better longevity on clay Ferrero's peak shines brighter imo. They both have 1 French but the fact that Roger has never won Monte Carlo or Rome hurts him imo.

 

[clayman2000]

Can you explain to me how hes below Brugera, Ferrero and Courier?
Brugera and Courier have 3 RG finals and Ferrero only 2. Brugera and Courier have 2 Clay Masters, and Ferrero has 3.

Federer already has 4 RG finals, including 1 win. And he has 5 clay masters titles. 2 of them being over Nadal. Add to the fact that his only losses at the FO since 04 have been to players with a total of 7 RG titles. Hes easily the 2nd best clay courter of his generation, whihc is more than i can say for the 3 guys i just named

 

[フェデラー]

Whilst Federer has better longevity on clay Ferrero's peak shines brighter imo. They both have 1 French but the fact that Roger has never won Monte Carlo or Rome hurts him imo.

He won Madrid and Hamburg beating Nadal in both finals.

 

[grafrules]

Whilst Federer has better longevity on clay Ferrero's peak shines brighter imo. They both have 1 French but the fact that Roger has never won Monte Carlo or Rome hurts him imo.

While I would agree Monte Carlo and Rome are slightly bigger than Hamburg or Madrid, 5 Masters still trumps 3 Masters. It would be like ranking 3 Wimbledons and U.S Opens combined over 5 combined Australian and French Opens which I wouldnt do, despite that I agree Wimbledon and the U.S Open are slightly higher in prestige. Also there are all Roger's finals in Masters events, and all his French Open finals.

 

[GameSampras]

Yea Kuerten was on his way to winning more French's.. Problem is though his consistency at times. I mean Ferrero was on his way to winning a few more RG titles as well, pre chicken pox

 

[GameSampras]

Can you explain to me how hes below Brugera, Ferrero and Courier?
Brugera and Courier have 3 RG finals and Ferrero only 2. Brugera and Courier have 2 Clay Masters, and Ferrero has 3.

Federer already has 4 RG finals, including 1 win. And he has 5 clay masters titles. 2 of them being over Nadal. Add to the fact that his only losses at the FO since 04 have been to players with a total of 7 RG titles. Hes easily the 2nd best clay courter of his generation, whihc is more than i can say for the 3 guys i just named

Fed has 4 RG finals, but still only has 1 RG title to his resume... Yea yea I know.. Nadal. But he was DESTROYED by Nadal for 4 years. These matches didnt exactly go right down to the wire.

 

[UsualSuspect]

Whilst Federer has better longevity on clay Ferrero's peak shines brighter imo. They both have 1 French but the fact that Roger has never won Monte Carlo or Rome hurts him imo.

Ferrero isnt even close to federer on clay. The guy made one french open final while federer made 4 and lost to Nadal each time. Ferrero's clay domination didnt take place alongside Federer and Nadal. Federer ranks higher in my opinion.

 

[thejoe]

Federer is better on clay than Ferrero. If Federer is at 10 and Guga is higher, I see nothing wrong with the list.

 

[UsualSuspect]

Fed has 4 RG finals, but still only has 1 RG title to his resume... Yea yea I know.. Nadal. But he was DESTROYED by Nadal for 4 years. These matches didnt exactly go right down to the wire.

Nonetheless, they were 4 RG finals. Ferrero made one and got it while Nadal was still as you would say "prepubescent". Federer would have easily routed Ferrero for FO titles.

 

[clayman2000]

Dudes there is no "(name of player) was on his way to winning 5 RG titles", because you can easily say the same for Fed. Besides he will certainly compete at RG for wins for at least 2 - 3 more years

As fore the Monte Carlo and Rome being more prestigous, what a load of crap. Federer has made 11 clay court Masters finals. In those 11 finals he lost 6. Of those 6, only 1 wasnt to Nadal. I would take 5 Hamburgs / Madrids over 3 titles from Monte Carlo and Rome

 

[grafselesfan]

Yea Kuerten was on his way to winning more French's.. Problem is though his consistency at times. I mean Ferrero was on his way to winning a few more RG titles as well, pre chicken pox

Ferrero probably would have won the 2004 French if he had stayed healthy. He is far better than Coria is. After that it is hard to say though. Nadal I would take over Ferrero clearly during Nadal's reign on clay from 2005 onwards. Ferrero in his prime was a great clay courter, but I dont see him challenging even a younger Nadal as much as Kuerten, or even being as certain to do well vs Federer on clay as a healthy Kuerten would be.

Kuerten pretty much for sure would have won 2 or 3 more Frenchs had he stayed healthy. Ferrero likely 1 more, but probably no more than that. Thus it isnt the same hypothetical IMO.

I agree Kuerten's consistency on clay wasnt great but who on this list had great consistency and longevity on clay? Borg, Vilas, Wilander, Lendl, Nadal, and even Federer (despite that I agree Federer isnt the best clay courter) That is pretty much it. Muster's peak on clay was very short, Bruguera and Courier lacked consistency and longevity both on the surface, Ferrero obviously lacked longevity, but they are still great clay courters.

 

[Giggs The Red Devil]

1. Borg
2. Lendl
3. Wilander
4. Kuerten
5. Muster / Vilas
6. Bruguera
7. Courier
8. Nadal
9. Federer
10. Ferrero

 

[thejoe]

Fed has 4 RG finals, but still only has 1 RG title to his resume... Yea yea I know.. Nadal. But he was DESTROYED by Nadal for 4 years. These matches didnt exactly go right down to the wire.

Unsurprisingly you are you exaggerating to downplay Fed's achievements. 2005 was close, 2006 was fairly close, 2007 went to 4 sets. Fair enough, 2008 was a pasting, but to say he was destroyed is ridiculous.

 

[grafselesfan]

Dudes there is no "(name of player) was on his way to winning 5 RG titles", because you can easily say the same for Fed.

How so? Federer hasnt been stopped in mid career with injury and illness. There is no comparision between a hypothetical for him and what happened to Kuerten or even Ferrero.

As fore the Monte Carlo and Rome being more prestigous, what a load of crap.

Those are the 2 most prestigious clay court events outside the French. They have been for many years, whether you accept it or not.

 

[Cesc Fabregas]

Dudes there is no "(name of player) was on his way to winning 5 RG titles", because you can easily say the same for Fed. Besides he will certainly compete at RG for wins for at least 2 - 3 more years

As fore the Monte Carlo and Rome being more prestigous, what a load of crap. Federer has made 11 clay court Masters finals. In those 11 finals he lost 6. Of those 6, only 1 wasnt to Nadal. I would take 5 Hamburgs / Madrids over 3 titles from Monte Carlo and Rome

Monte Carlo and Rome are more prestigous than Hamburg and Madrid heck Madrid was just made this year.

 

[VivalaVida]

Seems like a good list except for Ferrero. Federer is better than that guy.

 

[grafselesfan]

Monte Carlo and Rome are more prestigous than Hamburg and Madrid heck Madrid was just made this year.

Yep. I actually agree with grafrules comparision that Hamburg/Madrid vs Monte Carlo and Rome is like Australian Open vs Wimbledon and U.S Open.

 

[clayman2000]

Fed has 4 RG finals, but still only has 1 RG title to his resume... Yea yea I know.. Nadal. But he was DESTROYED by Nadal for 4 years. These matches didnt exactly go right down to the wire.

Ferrero was gettin destroyed at the French by Kuerton and Costa. Except Ferrero only made 2 RG finals.

As for Brugera he won his FO's, Berasetgiu who never won a Masters and was unseeded and Courier, who struggles to beat grass courters that year

And Couriers kill list at RG isnt that much better. He beat inconsistent american Agassi and Korda who never won a title on clay

 

[Cesc Fabregas]

Seems like a good list except for Ferrero. Federer is better than that guy.

Ferrero 02-03 was better than Federer ever was on clay imo.

 

[clayman2000]

How so? Federer hasnt been stopped in mid career with injury and illness. There is no comparision between a hypothetical for him and what happened to Kuerten or even Ferrero.



Those are the 2 most prestigious clay court events outside the French. They have been for many years, whether you accept it or not.

So thats like saying o... Nadal should have 10 FO titles, but didnt get there because he ran into tendonitis. Look what you get is what you get. If you cant get more, than its too bad.

As for the Masters, what are they in the big picture anyway. As Federer sees it, there are the slams, and then everything else.

Its ****s who just like to use excuses. Now im no Fed fan, but to say his not one of the best clay courters ever is just plain stupid. The harder competition argument always works for Sampras fans, so now ill use it. Nadal on clay from 05 - 09 >>> than anyone except maybe Borg. But Nadal dominated better

 

[GameSampras]

Well god guys.. You get 4 SHOTS against 1 player 4 YEARS IN A ROW, I think you should eventually know what to expect in the finals from Nadal. Fed never and still has never really gotten this taken care of against Nadal.. And consequently, it has carried over into all surfaces now, not just clay. THATS WHY, I can understand why people will doubt things with Fed. I believe if you gave Guga, Bruguera, Muster, Lendl, Borg, WIlander, 4 SHOTS at Nadal, they would have managed 1 win out of the 4 anyways.

Fed should have managed 1 if he was that great. I mean COME ON! He had time to prepare I would say for 1 guy for 4 years for 4 different tries

 

[JennyS]

imo 11th.

1.Borg
2.Nadal
3.Lendl
4.Wilander
5.Kuerten
6.Vilas
7.Muster
8.Courier
9.Brugeura
10.Ferrero
11.Federer

I think I'd rank him higher than Courier and Ferrero. But it's a great list!

 

[grafselesfan]

Ferrero was gettin destroyed at the French by Kuerton and Costa. Except Ferrero only made 2 RG finals.

As for Brugera he won his FO's, Berasetgiu who never won a Masters and was unseeded and Courier, who struggles to beat grass courters that year

And Couriers kill list at RG isnt that much better. He beat inconsistent american Agassi and Korda who never won a title on clay

Courier's performance at the 92 French Open was one of the best clay court performances I have ever seen. Here was his draw and scores:

First round- Courier defeats Kroon 7-6 (2), 6-4, 6-2
Second round- Courier defeats Muster 6-1, 6-4, 6-4
Third round- Courier defeats Mancini 6-4, 6-2, 6-0
Fourth round- Courier defeats Medvedev 6-1, 6-4, 6-2
Quarters- Courier defeats Ivanisevic 6-2, 6-1, 2-6, 7-5
Semis- Courier defeats Agassi 6-3, 6-2, 6-2
Final- Courier defeats Korda 7-5, 6-2, 6-1

Look at that draw and scores. Destroying Muster, destroying Medvedev when he was a hugely talented youngster and in his prime, just pummeling Agassi in the semis. For those of you who dont know who Mancini is he was an Argentian clay court specialist who won BOTH Monte Carlo and Rome in his career, and Courier destroyed him too. Wow at having to play both Muster and Mancini in the first week as the #1 ranked player too.

 

[Cesc Fabregas]

So thats like saying o... Nadal should have 10 FO titles, but didnt get there because he ran into tendonitis. Look what you get is what you get. If you cant get more, than its too bad.

As for the Masters, what are they in the big picture anyway. As Federer sees it, there are the slams, and then everything else.

Its ****s who just like to use excuses. Now im no Fed fan, but to say his not one of the best clay courters ever is just plain stupid. The harder competition argument always works for Sampras fans, so now ill use it. Nadal on clay from 05 - 09 >>> than anyone except maybe Borg. But Nadal dominated better

Federer draws up and till the final where he loses to Nadal have been pretty crap.

 

[VivalaVida]

Ferrero 02-03 was better than Federer ever was on clay imo.

Ferrero isnt even higher in terms of achievements and he won his tournaments at a time when there was no brick wall named Nadal. Federer dominated everyone except Nadal. Ferrero would flip like a cow against Nadal on clay. Imo federer in 2006 was much better than Ferrero ever was on clay.

 

[clayman2000]

Ferrero 02-03 was better than Federer ever was on clay imo.

Sorry are you refering to the Ferrero who lost the 1st two sets in the 02 RG final to Costa 1 and 0? The same Costa who was ranked below him and had never made a slam semi?

The same Ferrero who Federer beat on clay in 03?

The same Ferrero who was loosing to guys like Ljubicic and old Costa in Masters

 

[grafselesfan]

Sorry are you refering to the Ferrero who lost the 1st two sets in the 02 RG final to Costa 1 and 0? The same Costa who was ranked below him and had never made a slam semi?

The same Ferrero who Federer beat on clay in 03?

The same Ferrero who was loosing to guys like Ljubicic and old Costa in Masters

So Ferrero had an off day in he 02 French Open final. Federer has those two. Are you forgetting when hip plastered Kuerten spanked him off the court at the 04 French. When 31 year old Haas on his worst surface took him to the brink of defeat. When Volandri spanked him on clay in Rome. See it happens to everyone.

Ferrero did not finish that match with Federer because of an injury.

 

[TheMagicianOfPrecision]

imo 11th.

1.Borg
2.Nadal
3.Lendl
4.Wilander
5.Kuerten
6.Vilas
7.Muster
8.Courier
9.Brugeura
10.Ferrero
11.Federer

...And IMO...
1. Borg
2. Nadal
3. Wilander
4. Lendl
5. Federer
6. Vilas
7. Muster
8. Bruguera
9. Courier
10. Moya

 

[clayman2000]

Federer draws up and till the final where he loses to Nadal have been pretty crap.

And Brugeras and Couriers were any harders:

Roland Garros, France; 23.05.1994; GS; Outdoor: Clay; Draw: 128
Round Opponent Ranking Score
R128 Martin Damm (CZE) 68 W 6-1, 6-1, 7-6(3) Stats
R64 Christian Ruud (NOR) 135 W 6-2, 6-2, 7-6(2) Stats
R32 Ronald Agenor (USA) 31 W 6-3, 6-3, 6-3 Stats
R16 Patrick Rafter (AUS) 26 W 6-4, 6-3, 6-1 Stats
Q Andrei Medvedev (UKR) 4 W 6-3, 6-2, 7-5 Stats
S Jim Courier (USA) 7 W 6-3, 5-7, 6-3, 6-3 Stats
W Alberto Berasategui (ESP) 23 W 6-3, 7-5, 2-6, 6-1 Stats


Roland Garros, France; 24.05.1993; GS; Outdoor: Clay; Draw: 128
Round Opponent Ranking Score
R128 Henri Leconte (FRA) 65 W 7-6(3), 6-1, 6-0 Stats
R64 Thierry Champion (FRA) 172 W 6-0, 6-0, 6-0 Stats
R32 Magnus Larsson (SWE) 59 W 6-1, 6-3, 6-1 Stats
R16 Fernando Meligeni (BRA) 167 W 6-3, 6-1, 7-5 Stats
Q Pete Sampras (USA) 1 W 6-3, 4-6, 6-1, 6-4 Stats
S Andrei Medvedev (UKR) 12 W 6-0, 6-4, 6-2 Stats
W Jim Courier (USA) 2 W 6-4, 2-6, 6-2, 3-6, 6-3 Stats

Roland Garros, France; 25.05.1992; GS; Outdoor: Clay; Draw: 128
Round Opponent Ranking Score
R128 Nicklas Kroon (SWE) 216 W 7-6(2), 6-4, 6-2 Stats
R64 Thomas Muster (AUT) 22 W 6-1, 6-4, 6-4 Stats
R32 Alberto Mancini (ARG) 18 W 6-4, 6-2, 6-0 Stats
R16 Andrei Medvedev (UKR) 175 W 6-1, 6-4, 6-2 Stats
Q Goran Ivanisevic (CRO) 9 W 6-2, 6-1, 2-6, 7-5 Stats
S Andre Agassi (USA) 12 W 6-3, 6-2, 6-2 Stats
W Petr Korda (CZE) 8 W 7-5, 6-2, 6-1 Stats

Roland Garros, France; 27.05.1991; GS; Outdoor: Clay; Draw: 128
Round Opponent Ranking Score
R128 Derrick Rostagno (USA) 24 W 6-3, 6-3, 6-0 Stats
R64 Wayne Ferreira (RSA) 79 W 6-2, 6-3, 6-4 Stats
R32 Magnus Larsson (SWE) 46 W 6-3, 4-6, 4-6, 7-5, 6-2 Stats
R16 Todd Martin (USA) 243 W 6-2, 6-3, 6-3 Stats
Q Stefan Edberg (SWE) 1 W 6-4, 2-6, 6-3, 6-4 Stats
S Michael Stich (GER) 12 W 6-2, 6-7(8), 6-2, 6-4 Stats
W Andre Agassi (USA) 4 W 3-6, 6-4, 2-6, 6-1, 6-4

 

[Cesc Fabregas]

Sorry are you refering to the Ferrero who lost the 1st two sets in the 02 RG final to Costa 1 and 0? The same Costa who was ranked below him and had never made a slam semi?

The same Ferrero who Federer beat on clay in 03?

The same Ferrero who was loosing to guys like Ljubicic and old Costa in Masters

Ferrero choked that 02 final he should have won based on form and JCF won 2 Monte Carlo titles during that frame something Federer has never done.

 

[clayman2000]

So Ferrero had an off day in he 02 French Open final. Federer has those two. Are you forgetting when hip plastered Kuerten spanked him off the court at the 04 French. When 31 year old Haas on his worst surface took him to the brink of defeat. When Volandri spanked him on clay in Rome. See it happens to everyone.

Ferrero did not finish that match with Federer because of an injury.

04 French wasnt Federer's prime on clay. So i could talk about Ferrero's losses in 04 - 08 if you want....

Whether or not Haas took Federer to 5 sets, he still spanked him in the end. There is a difference between loosing, and playing bad and winners. Great players find ways to win playing bad.

Ok so Fed had a bad match against Volandri. But its not as bad as getting destroyed by an average clay courter in the final of the French

 

[drwood]

1. Borg
2. Nadal
3. Lendl
4. Wilander
5. Kuerten
6. Courier
7. Vilas
8. Bruguera
9. Federer
10. Agassi

All have made at least 3 French Open finals...Muster never even made 2. You can make a legitimate case that Wilander is better than Lendl...its a toss-up, i put Lendl #3 b/c he was higher-ranked for much of their careers. Fererro and Muster are top-15, but not top-10...they weren't great long enough.

 

[clayman2000]

Ferrero choked that 02 final he should have won based on form and JCF won 2 Monte Carlo titles during that frame something Federer has never done.

Explain how loosing sets 1 and love to an inferior player is choking?

And im pretty sure Fed's 21 match winning streak in Hamburg from 04 - 08 beats Ferrero's streak. Remember one of those wins was over Nadal... actually is was a destruction

 

[Cesc Fabregas]

And Brugeras and Couriers were any harders:

Roland Garros, France; 23.05.1994; GS; Outdoor: Clay; Draw: 128
Round Opponent Ranking Score
R128 Martin Damm (CZE) 68 W 6-1, 6-1, 7-6(3) Stats
R64 Christian Ruud (NOR) 135 W 6-2, 6-2, 7-6(2) Stats
R32 Ronald Agenor (USA) 31 W 6-3, 6-3, 6-3 Stats
R16 Patrick Rafter (AUS) 26 W 6-4, 6-3, 6-1 Stats
Q Andrei Medvedev (UKR) 4 W 6-3, 6-2, 7-5 Stats
S Jim Courier (USA) 7 W 6-3, 5-7, 6-3, 6-3 Stats
W Alberto Berasategui (ESP) 23 W 6-3, 7-5, 2-6, 6-1 Stats


Roland Garros, France; 24.05.1993; GS; Outdoor: Clay; Draw: 128
Round Opponent Ranking Score
R128 Henri Leconte (FRA) 65 W 7-6(3), 6-1, 6-0 Stats
R64 Thierry Champion (FRA) 172 W 6-0, 6-0, 6-0 Stats
R32 Magnus Larsson (SWE) 59 W 6-1, 6-3, 6-1 Stats
R16 Fernando Meligeni (BRA) 167 W 6-3, 6-1, 7-5 Stats
Q Pete Sampras (USA) 1 W 6-3, 4-6, 6-1, 6-4 Stats
S Andrei Medvedev (UKR) 12 W 6-0, 6-4, 6-2 Stats
W Jim Courier (USA) 2 W 6-4, 2-6, 6-2, 3-6, 6-3 Stats

Roland Garros, France; 25.05.1992; GS; Outdoor: Clay; Draw: 128
Round Opponent Ranking Score
R128 Nicklas Kroon (SWE) 216 W 7-6(2), 6-4, 6-2 Stats
R64 Thomas Muster (AUT) 22 W 6-1, 6-4, 6-4 Stats
R32 Alberto Mancini (ARG) 18 W 6-4, 6-2, 6-0 Stats
R16 Andrei Medvedev (UKR) 175 W 6-1, 6-4, 6-2 Stats
Q Goran Ivanisevic (CRO) 9 W 6-2, 6-1, 2-6, 7-5 Stats
S Andre Agassi (USA) 12 W 6-3, 6-2, 6-2 Stats
W Petr Korda (CZE) 8 W 7-5, 6-2, 6-1 Stats

Roland Garros, France; 27.05.1991; GS; Outdoor: Clay; Draw: 128
Round Opponent Ranking Score
R128 Derrick Rostagno (USA) 24 W 6-3, 6-3, 6-0 Stats
R64 Wayne Ferreira (RSA) 79 W 6-2, 6-3, 6-4 Stats
R32 Magnus Larsson (SWE) 46 W 6-3, 4-6, 4-6, 7-5, 6-2 Stats
R16 Todd Martin (USA) 243 W 6-2, 6-3, 6-3 Stats
Q Stefan Edberg (SWE) 1 W 6-4, 2-6, 6-3, 6-4 Stats
S Michael Stich (GER) 12 W 6-2, 6-7(8), 6-2, 6-4 Stats
W Andre Agassi (USA) 4 W 3-6, 6-4, 2-6, 6-1, 6-4

Federer's draw in 08

R1. Querrey
R2. Montanes
R3. Ancic
R4. Benneteau
QF. Gonzalez
SF. Monflis
F. Nadal

Before meeting Nadal in the final that is a joke draw.

 

[GameSampras]

Federer's draw in 08

R1. Querrey
R2. Montanes
R3. Ancic
R4. Benneteau
QF. Gonzalez
SF. Monflis
F. Nadal

Before meeting Nadal in the final that is a joke draw.

Yep justplain horrible. Gonzales? Somtimes he can be a tough opponent. Ehhh... Monfils.. A bit overrated around here and I think he is still injured, but regardless.. What does Monfils have to show for himself? 1 stinkin title?

 

[TheMagicianOfPrecision]

Federer's draw in 08

R1. Querrey
R2. Montanes
R3. Ancic
R4. Benneteau
QF. Gonzalez
SF. Monflis
F. Nadal

Before meeting Nadal in the final that is a joke draw.

To Federer it is,for everyone else...somewhat tough draw

 

[grafselesfan]

And Brugeras and Couriers were any harders:

Roland Garros, France; 23.05.1994; GS; Outdoor: Clay; Draw: 128
Round Opponent Ranking Score
R128 Martin Damm (CZE) 68 W 6-1, 6-1, 7-6(3) Stats
R64 Christian Ruud (NOR) 135 W 6-2, 6-2, 7-6(2) Stats
R32 Ronald Agenor (USA) 31 W 6-3, 6-3, 6-3 Stats
R16 Patrick Rafter (AUS) 26 W 6-4, 6-3, 6-1 Stats
Q Andrei Medvedev (UKR) 4 W 6-3, 6-2, 7-5 Stats
S Jim Courier (USA) 7 W 6-3, 5-7, 6-3, 6-3 Stats
W Alberto Berasategui (ESP) 23 W 6-3, 7-5, 2-6, 6-1 Stats


Roland Garros, France; 24.05.1993; GS; Outdoor: Clay; Draw: 128
Round Opponent Ranking Score
R128 Henri Leconte (FRA) 65 W 7-6(3), 6-1, 6-0 Stats
R64 Thierry Champion (FRA) 172 W 6-0, 6-0, 6-0 Stats
R32 Magnus Larsson (SWE) 59 W 6-1, 6-3, 6-1 Stats
R16 Fernando Meligeni (BRA) 167 W 6-3, 6-1, 7-5 Stats
Q Pete Sampras (USA) 1 W 6-3, 4-6, 6-1, 6-4 Stats
S Andrei Medvedev (UKR) 12 W 6-0, 6-4, 6-2 Stats
W Jim Courier (USA) 2 W 6-4, 2-6, 6-2, 3-6, 6-3 Stats

Roland Garros, France; 25.05.1992; GS; Outdoor: Clay; Draw: 128
Round Opponent Ranking Score
R128 Nicklas Kroon (SWE) 216 W 7-6(2), 6-4, 6-2 Stats
R64 Thomas Muster (AUT) 22 W 6-1, 6-4, 6-4 Stats
R32 Alberto Mancini (ARG) 18 W 6-4, 6-2, 6-0 Stats
R16 Andrei Medvedev (UKR) 175 W 6-1, 6-4, 6-2 Stats
Q Goran Ivanisevic (CRO) 9 W 6-2, 6-1, 2-6, 7-5 Stats
S Andre Agassi (USA) 12 W 6-3, 6-2, 6-2 Stats
W Petr Korda (CZE) 8 W 7-5, 6-2, 6-1 Stats

Roland Garros, France; 27.05.1991; GS; Outdoor: Clay; Draw: 128
Round Opponent Ranking Score
R128 Derrick Rostagno (USA) 24 W 6-3, 6-3, 6-0 Stats
R64 Wayne Ferreira (RSA) 79 W 6-2, 6-3, 6-4 Stats
R32 Magnus Larsson (SWE) 46 W 6-3, 4-6, 4-6, 7-5, 6-2 Stats
R16 Todd Martin (USA) 243 W 6-2, 6-3, 6-3 Stats
Q Stefan Edberg (SWE) 1 W 6-4, 2-6, 6-3, 6-4 Stats
S Michael Stich (GER) 12 W 6-2, 6-7(8), 6-2, 6-4 Stats
W Andre Agassi (USA) 4 W 3-6, 6-4, 2-6, 6-1, 6-4

That 92 draw that Courier had is incredibly hard!! Thomas Muster in the 2nd round for crying out loud! Then Alberto Mancini in the 3rd round. Did you even know this guy has won Monte Carlo and Rome both in his career. Medvedev a perennial contender on clay and highly touted up and comer back then in the round of 16. Agassi in the semis. That is a killer draw to play all 4 of those, 3 of those even before the quarters. Ivanisevic and Korda as your 5th and 6th toughest opponents on clay are pretty darn good.

The 91 draw isnt so easy either. Larsson is an extremely dangerous 3rd round. The guy was known for taking big scalps. Edberg and Stich are extremely talented players who can play on every surface. Edberg should have won that 89 French, and Stich has made a FO final and beaten peak Muster to do it. Agassi was in his 2nd straight FO final, playing the best clay court tennis of his career and had more experience than Jim at that point.

The 93 draw is quite tough as well. LeConte and Champion are clay court specialists (thought LeConte can play on all surfaces), that is where they play their best tennis. LeConte was past his prime and Champion is a journeyman mostly, they wouldnt be tough 2nd week opponents but for 1st and 2nd round that is a tough opening. Larsson as I mentioned is extremely dangerous. Meligini is a tough cookie on clay, he would reach a FO semifinal with a win over Corretja down the road. Sampras in the quarters isnt an "easy" draw. Sampras from 92-96 was a very good clay courter, and he plays for the majors, anytime he reaches that stage he isnt easy. Medvedev many were picking to win the French in 93/94 but Bruguera stopped him both times, then lastly 2 time defending champion and World #1 Courier in the final.

The 94 draw is the easiest of those 4. Still peak Medvedev, Courier, and an on fire Berasetegui in a row isnt a cakewalk. Still harder than Federer's last 3 round opponents at this years French I would say.

 

[Cesc Fabregas]

Yep justplain horrible. Gonzales? Somtimes he can be a tough opponent. Ehhh... Monfils.. A bit overrated around here and I think he is still injured, but regardless.. What does Monfils have to show for himself? 1 stinkin title?

Monflis has never done jack anyway apart from that French Open run heck that will probably be his only slam semi final appreance.

 

[grafselesfan]

Monflis has never done jack anyway apart from that French Open run heck that will probably be his only slam semi final appreance.

I think clay will always be his best surface. I could see some more future quarters and even semis at the French for him, probably never a final. He does have some raw physical attributes. He is an amazing athlete with amazing cout coverage, he has a great serve. However he seems clueless how to play the game at times. Poorly coached perhaps, not sure what his work ethic is, but I dont see him fulfilling his potential at all.

 

[Cesc Fabregas]

That 92 draw that Courier had is incredibly hard!! Thomas Muster in the 2nd round for crying out loud! Then Alberto Mancini in the 3rd round. Did you even know this guy has won Monte Carlo and Rome both in his career. Medvedev a perennial contender on clay and highly touted up and comer back then in the round of 16. Agassi in the semis. That is a killer draw to play all 4 of those, 3 of those even before the quarters. Ivanisevic and Korda as your 5th and 6th toughest opponents on clay are pretty darn good.

The 91 draw isnt so easy either. Larsson is an extremely dangerous 3rd round. The guy was known for taking big scalps. Edberg and Stich are extremely talented players who can play on every surface. Edberg should have won that 89 French, and Stich has made a FO final and beaten peak Muster to do it. Agassi was in his 2nd straight FO final, playing the best clay court tennis of his career and had more experience than Jim at that point.



The 93 draw is quite tough as well. LeConte and Champion are clay court specialists (thought LeConte can play on all surfaces), that is where they play their best tennis. LeConte was past his prime and Champion is a journeyman mostly, they wouldnt be tough 2nd week opponents but for 1st and 2nd round that is a tough opening. Larsson as I mentioned is extremely dangerous. Meligini is a tough cookie on clay, he would reach a FO semifinal with a win over Corretja down the road. Sampras in the quarters isnt an "easy" draw. Sampras from 92-96 was a very good clay courter, and he plays for the majors, anytime he reaches that stage he isnt easy. Medvedev many were picking to win the French in 93/94 but Bruguera stopped him both times, then lastly 2 time defending champion and World #1 Courier in the final.

The 94 draw is the easiest of those 4. Still peak Medvedev, Courier, and an on fire Berasetegui in a row isnt a cakewalk. Still harder than Federer's last 3 round opponents at this years French I would say.

Great post. All those draws are much harder than Federer has every had at the French.

 

[GameSampras]

Great athlete Monfils is.. But it sure hasnt helped him alot in the world of tennis.. Maybe he should have tried out for the olympics doing some other sport.. Long jump or something

 

[drwood]

Yep justplain horrible. Gonzales? Somtimes he can be a tough opponent. Ehhh... Monfils.. A bit overrated around here and I think he is still injured, but regardless.. What does Monfils have to show for himself? 1 stinkin title?

I hope this is a serious discussion thread and not just a veiled place to bash Federer...lets see who Sampras lost to before we start bashing Federer's draws. BTW, most people prior to this year's French would have said that Soderling was wore than Ancic, Gonzalez or Monfis and that Nadal had an easy draw...it doesn't always work out that way, especially at the French.

 

[Cesc Fabregas]

I think clay will always be his best surface. I could see some more future quarters and even semis at the French for him, probably never a final. He does have some raw physical attributes. He is an amazing athlete with amazing cout coverage, he has a great serve. However he seems clueless how to play the game at times. Poorly coached perhaps, not sure what his work ethic is, but I dont see him fulfilling his potential at all.

He's also a quiter complete gave up after losing the first set to Federer at the French this year.

 

[drwood]

Great post. All those draws are much harder than Federer has every had at the French.

True, but this should be used to talk about how GREAT Courier was instead of bashing Federer....its easy to forget how close Courier was to three-peating at the French in 93.

People talk about Muster and Fererro and Moya, but none were in Courier's league for consistency of excellence on clay. That's why he's much higher than them in my book.

 

[Rhino]

Ferrero choked that 02 final he should have won based on form and JCF won 2 Monte Carlo titles during that frame something Federer has never done.

So what, Ferrero would never have done it either if he'd have faced Nadal.