FHtennisman
Professional
That's completely different to my point and just looking at stats without context is irrelevant.
Where does Federer rank on clay in open era?
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That's completely different to my point and just looking at stats without context is irrelevant.
HetTheGreaterer
Banned
If not for the clay GOAT to bloom early and fall right in the path of him, federer would have following clay accomplishments
6 RGs (2005-09 consecutive, 2011 )
All 3 clay masters for multple times, not only the hamburg and madrid (3 consecutive MC 2006-08, couple of rome masters, and bunch of madrid/hamburg)
Fed is very much underestimated on clay
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
Even there I want to erase that from memory.
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
Dude he played the FO every year until 2016 when he was 35. THIRTY FIVE. What has he been running away from?
Nadal has missed 6 Slams since winning his first FO, Federer hasn't missed any until he was almost 35. Get some perspective, please.
Phoenix1983
G.O.A.T.
Muster was a beast on clay to an extent that neither Federer nor Novak Djokovic was.
There was no clay GOAT in 2004, yet he didn't win. We're just guessing, here, anything could have happened. Before Nadal, it was GAUDIO who won a title. It could have been Coria. Nalbandian. Safin. Agassi. Federer...
alexio
G.O.A.T.
yes..context matters but at least djoko won all 4 times vs rafa these 2 best years whereas fed lost all 4 times
maratha_warrior
Hall of Fame
Not just that but Novak never reached a final at RG before 2012 but Novak was at clay peak in 2011 since he beat Rafa at Madrid and Rome , but on the other hand H2H wid Rafa is irrevalent and hence Fed is greater at RG since he beat Novak in 2011..
Fast forward in 2012 Novak actually reached final for first time beating Fed in Semis but Fed was Grandpa fedFand Novak was not at peak .
Peak novak is in 2011 bcoz he beat Rafa but H2H wid Rafa is irrevalent since Fed is Greater .
hoodjem
G.O.A.T.
Jack?
Phoenix1983
G.O.A.T.
FHtennisman
Professional
Was Nadal at this best in these years?
HetTheGreaterer
Banned
alexio
G.O.A.T.
no, but still fed also didn't win at french 2011 final after that epic win against peak djoko
FHtennisman
Professional
Yes but that wasn't Fed at his best either, he would turn 30 a couple of months later.
alexio
G.O.A.T.
djoko better..first title djok age 20 fed 22..h2h 3-1, finals losses 0-1, titles 6-6, title number 6 age djok 28 fed 36
heninfan99
Talk Tennis Guru
''Since I know this sport I never saw somebody playing at this level''
Slightly D1
Professional
Top 5, if Nadal doesn’t exist Fed is considered one of the great RG champions of all time and clay is generally well liked by Federer fans.
It’s sad that he completely skips out now since he openly admits he doesn’t think he can win.
It’s sad that he completely skips out now since he openly admits he doesn’t think he can win.
alexio
G.O.A.T.
also if fed doesn't exist nadal undisputed goat
HolgerNova
New User
Another reason this is tough to rank is how do you factor in longevity? Courier stopped being a factor ar the french when he was 24?25? Brugera had maybe 4 good tournaments there and then other times bounced out in 1r or 2r. 2005-2015 Fed had 1 title, 4 finals, 2 semis, 3 qf.
I personally would put him somewhere between 3 and 8 but it's hard to rank him.
I personally would put him somewhere between 3 and 8 but it's hard to rank him.
alexio
G.O.A.T.
justin henin about fed?
Its debatable. Depends on which factors you think is most important. I cant see why you put relevance in finals losses, Federer has reach SF or deeper in 15 AO's in a row barring 2015, which is an insane record. Djokovic more dominant 2011-2016.
alexio
G.O.A.T.
misguiding comparison..we can only take 2008-2016(17-18 don't counting coz we all know why) for djoko(coz he won't play since 2018 yet so we don't know the future) hence 2004-2012 for fed(from 2013 till 2018 erasing all stats due to see the above)..on this distance djoko won 6 fed 4, both has reach QF or deeper 9 in a row(two extra titles higher than 2 SF)..so obviously djoko the king of AO already yet and he can only to strengthen this status in the future winning another title
Cherrypicking is ok, but it is what it is, subjective
alexio
G.O.A.T.
it's more objective than your number SF when you taking away from djoko his years to be played while fed already did play these years (2013-2018)Cherrypicking is ok, but it is what it is, subjective
If Djoker wins another one his on top of my list... But he has to do it first.
alexio
G.O.A.T.
you can reach 5 SF in a row and won 1 title, and you can reach 3 SF and won 3 titles ..so your logic of reaching SF tricky oneCherrypicking is ok, but it is what it is, subjective
alexio
G.O.A.T.
waiting for january..he's already ahead of fed..coz fed wasted his chances to grab more than 6 titles when djoko didn't even get his chances yet to grab more than 6 titles understand my logic?
Im talking 15 SF's or deeper in a row except 2015. Its ok if you dont think its important, i do.
No i dont understand your logic because you have to win the titles first.
Love the video clip. Perfect response. I'm a Federer fan, and he would not be the GOAT on clay with Nadal gone.
Pheasant
Legend
I think that Federer on clay peaked higher than Djoker. But Djoker's overall record beats Federer's convincingly. I had to look it up before deciding on Federer vs Djoker on clay.
Djokovic:
238-61, .796 overall
36-28, .5625 vs top 10
1 FO title
Federer:
225-75, .750 overall
32-27, .542 vs top 10
1 FO title
kudos to Fed for going to 4 straight FO finals and 5 in 6 years. That is one hell of a peak. But Novak has been more consistent for a longer period of time. So although Fed had a higher peak, Djokovic has had the better career. These two are very close, however.
My gut is that Djokovic is somewhere around 8th all-time on clay and that Federer is 9th or 10th.
Djokovic:
238-61, .796 overall
36-28, .5625 vs top 10
1 FO title
Federer:
225-75, .750 overall
32-27, .542 vs top 10
1 FO title
kudos to Fed for going to 4 straight FO finals and 5 in 6 years. That is one hell of a peak. But Novak has been more consistent for a longer period of time. So although Fed had a higher peak, Djokovic has had the better career. These two are very close, however.
My gut is that Djokovic is somewhere around 8th all-time on clay and that Federer is 9th or 10th.
alexio
G.O.A.T.
who is better driver: both guys must run out of 1,20,00 time..eventually guy 1 wasted 4 laps to do it while guy 2 wasted 7 laps..who's better?
alexio
G.O.A.T.
it really more important why you won few titles after reaching these SFs
Youre free to see it that way
Phoenix1983
G.O.A.T.
Good analysis, I actually ranked Federer one place ahead of Novak Djokovic, but agreed that it could be either way around - and the two of them probably just sneak into the top 10.
(Edit: that's Open Era though, not all time, for me)
alexio
G.O.A.T.
waiting for januaryYoure free to see it that way
Pheasant
Legend
Agreed. I honestly don't know what to do with pre-Open era players. There were some incredible ones. I always rank assuming the Open Era, although I will blur the lines with guys like Rosewall and Laver.
If Djoker wins AO19 he is AO GOAT. But you have to actually win the title.waiting for january
Nadal wasnt the GOAT after the 2010 season because he had more titles at 24y than Federer. Nadal had 9 titles after 2010, Federer had 16. You have to actually win them, although you are younger.
clout
Hall of Fame
I have Djoker ahead of Fed on clay OVERALL as well as he won 2 or more titles at all the clay masters and beat Rafa 7 times on the surface to add to that. He's also beaten Rafa at all three clay Masters tournaments at least twice too. I think Fed is greater at Rg though as he made 5 finals compared to Novak's 4, which also includes making 4 straight between 2005-09 and 5 in 6 years between 2005-11.
Its not an easy comparison, as they were both clearly the second best clay courters for several years in their prime. Only one man stood in their way to also dominate clay in their prime, although it wasnt Fedovic best surface. Djokovic has a better H2H vs Rafa, and has won more clay Masters, but he also played Rafa a lot more in Rafas weaker clay-years. Fedovic are both clearly inferior to prime-Rafa on clay, but they were both clearly superior to the rest of the field in their peak years. Their H2H is 4-3 Djok, and 1-1 at FO, Federer beating peak-Djoker in 2011, so pretty even.
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alexio
G.O.A.T.
i hope you'll see it. i've seen it
alexio
G.O.A.T.
rafito all the way
alexio
G.O.A.T.
epic match
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captainbryce
Hall of Fame
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