Where does Medvedev rank all time on hc?

nolefam_2024

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
Currently he has won 7 out of the top 9 big titles on hc.

He has been winner of Miami, Rogers cup, Cincinnati, USOpen, Shanghai, Paris and ATP finals. While at the same time he has been in a 3 finals of AO already and once in IW.

He has never defended a title but this week he is having a good chance to win the Dubai title once again.

He has currently won 18 titles and 372 matches on hc. At 27 years of age, he still have around 5 more years at the very least.

To compare with Andy Murray, he just recently won 500th match on hc and Medvedev will be able to win more than 500 if his body holds up. He has won 34 titles on hc and not won IW as well as AO. Very similar to Medvedev.
 
Just as a note, if Medvedev keeps winning 30+ matches each year, before his 33rd birthday, he would be among the big 3 and Agassi on match wins on hc.

Now in the past in 80s the HC was not so ubiquitous and there were other surfaces like carpet. That would make this a little less impressive fact than it should be. But still. He would be a winning machine.
 
Players with 2+ Majors on hard courts (in no particular order):

(1) Federer; (2) Djokovic; (3) Nadal; (4) Wawrinka; (5) Safin; (6) Rafter; (7) Agassi; (8) Sampras; (9) Courier; (10) Becker; (11) Edberg; (12) Wilander; (13) Lendl; (14) McEnroe; (15) Connors.​

Then, you have players like Medvedev, who had 1 hard courts Major. Again, in no particular order:

(1) Sinner; (2) Alcaraz; (3) Thiem; (4) Cilic; (5) Murray; (6) del Potro; (7) Roddick; (8) Hewitt; (9) Johansson; (10) Kafelnikov; (11) Korda​

Then, you have great hard court players who played most/all of their careers before hard court Majors like Laver and Newcombe.

Setting aside the older guys like Laver and Newk, I'd have Medvedev behind the 15 players with 2+ hard court Majors. The question then becomes how he compares with the other players who won 1 hard court Major. He's currently ahead of Sinner and Alcaraz, but they have plenty of time to pass him. I'd also have him ahead of Thiem, Cilic, Johansson, Kafelnikov, and Korda.

That puts Medvedev in the 16-20 range, behind the 2+ Major winners and in competition with Murray, del Potro, Roddick, and Hewitt. I'd have to think about how he measures up to them.
 
buscemi said:
Players with 2+ Majors on hard courts (in no particular order):

(1) Federer; (2) Djokovic; (3) Nadal; (4) Wawrinka; (5) Safin; (6) Rafter; (7) Agassi; (8) Sampras; (9) Courier; (10) Becker; (11) Edberg; (12) Wilander; (13) Lendl; (14) McEnroe; (15) Connors.​

Then, you have players like Medvedev, who had 1 hard courts Major. Again, in no particular order:

(1) Sinner; (2) Alcaraz; (3) Thiem; (4) Cilic; (5) Murray; (6) del Potro; (7) Roddick; (8) Hewitt; (9) Johansson; (10) Kafelnikov; (11) Korda​

Then, you have great hard court players who played most/all of their careers before hard court Majors like Laver and Newcombe.

Setting aside the older guys like Laver and Newk, I'd have Medvedev behind the 15 players with 2+ hard court Majors. The question then becomes how he compares with the other players who won 1 hard court Major. He's currently ahead of Sinner and Alcaraz, but they have plenty of time to pass him. I'd also have him ahead of Thiem, Cilic, Johansson, Kafelnikov, and Korda.

That puts Medvedev in the 16-20 range, behind the 2+ Major winners and in competition with Murray, del Potro, Roddick, and Hewitt. I'd have to think about how he measures up to them.
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I would have to have Murray ahead on HC for sure.
 
The real question is whether Med will inspire a new generation of tall octopus build players to stand 30 feet behind the baseline to return serve.
 
I can’t rank guys very high that have a habit of constantly blowing big leads in slam finals. 2 times in a row med blew a 2 set lead at the AO. Inexcusable. If you’re supposed to be rank highly you don’t do that
 
buscemi said:
Players with 2+ Majors on hard courts (in no particular order):

(1) Federer; (2) Djokovic; (3) Nadal; (4) Wawrinka; (5) Safin; (6) Rafter; (7) Agassi; (8) Sampras; (9) Courier; (10) Becker; (11) Edberg; (12) Wilander; (13) Lendl; (14) McEnroe; (15) Connors.​

Then, you have players like Medvedev, who had 1 hard courts Major. Again, in no particular order:

(1) Sinner; (2) Alcaraz; (3) Thiem; (4) Cilic; (5) Murray; (6) del Potro; (7) Roddick; (8) Hewitt; (9) Johansson; (10) Kafelnikov; (11) Korda​

Then, you have great hard court players who played most/all of their careers before hard court Majors like Laver and Newcombe.

Setting aside the older guys like Laver and Newk, I'd have Medvedev behind the 15 players with 2+ hard court Majors. The question then becomes how he compares with the other players who won 1 hard court Major. He's currently ahead of Sinner and Alcaraz, but they have plenty of time to pass him. I'd also have him ahead of Thiem, Cilic, Johansson, Kafelnikov, and Korda.

That puts Medvedev in the 16-20 range, behind the 2+ Major winners and in competition with Murray, del Potro, Roddick, and Hewitt. I'd have to think about how he measures up to them.
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I wouldn't necessarily just put all the two-slam winners above Medvedev automatically. Take Wawrinka: Two majors, but no other finals. No YEC. No Masters, and only once in his career did he even make a final at a hard court Masters. In fact, he only made it past the quarters of a hard court Masters event four times in his entire career. Four! Medvedev's stats utterly dwarf Wawrinka's everywhere except slam count, where he's still only one behind. Maybe that's still too big a chasm for some people, but I don't think Med is out of that conversation by any means.

That said, I think there's at least 10 players in the Open Era whose hard court stats put them above Medvedev. So he's maybe top 15, arguably just outside the top 15. But that's only where he's at now. If he wins another major I think plenty of people will bump him up quite a bit higher, considering everything else he's achieved.
 
Medvedev needs to win 1 more slam to separate out from the lack and get into top right now. Even sinner will. Even sinner will probably get to second by 2025. And mostly on hc.
 
tudwell said:
I wouldn't necessarily just put all the two-slam winners above Medvedev automatically. Take Wawrinka: Two majors, but no other finals. No YEC. No Masters, and only once in his career did he even make a final at a hard court Masters. In fact, he only made it past the quarters of a hard court Masters event four times in his entire career. Four! Medvedev's stats utterly dwarf Wawrinka's everywhere except slam count, where he's still only one behind. Maybe that's still too big a chasm for some people, but I don't think Med is out of that conversation by any means.

That said, I think there's at least 10 players in the Open Era whose hard court stats put them above Medvedev. So he's maybe top 15, arguably just outside the top 15. But that's only where he's at now. If he wins another major I think plenty of people will bump him up quite a bit higher, considering everything else he's achieved.
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To expand on this, I think Djokovic, Federer, Sampras, Agassi, Nadal, Lendl, Connors, and McEnroe are all so thoroughly above Medvedev in terms of hard court achievements that it's not worth discussing.

Becker, Edberg, and Wilander all have multiple slam titles and a handful of Grand Prix/Super 9 titles – despite fewer opportunities to play on hard. I could potentially see Medvedev entering this tier by the end of his career should he manage to nab another major or two, but as things stand, their achievements are clearly a cut above.

That right there is 11 players, so Med's at best 12th at the moment. Courier, Safin, and Rafter all have an extra major, though their non-major achievements – even their general consistency within slams – don't quite stack up against Daniil's. (Wawrinka too, as mentioned in the post above, although there the gap is even starker.) Murray only has the one slam but is otherwise clearly above Med (especially considering he overlapped so much with the Big 3, while Med never really had to bother with Federer and has seen Nadal in and out of the game). Depending on how you want to place those five, Med could be all the way down to 17th. Hewitt would probably be next, and I know some would want to place him above the Russian. So generously, he's top 15 all time. More conservatively, he's merely top 20. And young guys like Sinner or Alcaraz could certainly overtake him, so we'll see where it all nets out.
 
my take from a while back:

TL;DR: maximum for pure Open Era (i.e. no crossovers from amateur era like Laver or Ashe) is #12, personally would put him around #15


the Open Era career win % list is a good start (for reference: Medvedev is at 75%, but goes up to around 79-80% if you filter starting somewhere in '19)

Medvedev is never passing Djokovic, Federer, Connors, Lendl, Laver, McEnroe, Sampras, or Agassi

assuming you look at level and not just major tallies, he's certainly not passing Edberg, Nadal, Becker, or Murray

you then get to the Ashe, Roddick, and Mecir trio. i don't really rate Roddick outside of '03-04 and '09-10, but he was doing the same "get to The Guy" bit, so i'd say Medvedev is in the same general elite to ATG range but a bit higher

idk if Ashe ever really tempered his game to the necessary degree for sustained hard court success - his best wins were a decider against his pigeonizer Laver in Tucson '74 (before losing to Newcombe), a decider against Nastase in Paris '75 (before losing to Okker), and a straight setter against Borg in the WCT Challenge Cup (before losing to Nastase). feels like he just couldn't keep it clean or consistent against top competition

Mecir was an overrated fraud. Medvedev would be justified in calling him a small cat who doesn't know how to serve fight

moving down the list for some argument material:

i would argue that Rosewall was clearly better. just looking at the Open Era, his win % goes from 73.8 to 76.9% if you stop at the end of '74, when he was 40 (!!!), rather than including the ~70 official matches he played up to '80. on the pro tour in knock-out tournaments with more than one set, he won hard court titles beating Trabert and Gonzalez once each, Hoad twice, and Laver thrice (two of those wins in Laver's peak year of '67). and obviously if you have a GOAT-tier backhand you're going to be an ATG hard courter

Courier and Wilander have more majors if you care about that. i would say that Medvedev is a clearly better server and returner than Courier and across their careers is a comparable baseliner (but '91-93 Courier clearly above). i'd say Wilander is a clearly better baseliner and net player and comparable or slightly better returner, but much weaker server. would tend towards Wilander >> Medvedev > Courier

if we want to talk about bad luck/flopping in hard court slams (depending on who you ask), there's Borg. injured in '78 and had to go against Connors, upset by a servebot in '79, lost a decider to McEnroe in '80, and lost a messy match to McEnroe again in '81. i'd lean towards flopping, and i think he wasn't always consistent on backhand depth and return potency, but i could see an argument based on his competition and his dominance against the field

for big serve & forehand guys, there's del Potro and Newcombe. playstyle wise, Newcombe certainly had the skills to drive Medvedev insane with his net play, but overall, i don't think he was all that great against top competition. meanwhile del Potro's slam was clearly much more impressive (demolishing Nadal before pulling it out against Federer), along with other '09, '13, Olympics, and Davis Cup results, so i'd say del Potro >> Medvedev > Newcombe

then for surprisingly aggressive retriever types, you have Hewitt and Chang. Hewitt has the slam while Chang doesn't, and after a certain point both of them were pretty impotent against top competition. i rate peak Hewitt and how he dealt with Sampras pretty highly, but he just fell off so fast with his injuries and not handling Federer... ehh would still say Hewitt > Medvedev > Chang

finally you have Alcaraz and Sinner threatening to overtake Medvedev by the end of all of their careers. not guaranteed, but certainly looking quite likely

rest of the hard court slam winners: Thiem, Cilic, Johansson, Kafelnikov, Korda, Wawrinka, Safin, and Rafter. briefly: peak-wise i only rate Safin and Rafter, and none of these have enough consistency for me to care about them as ATG hard-courters compared to Medvedev

bonus round, let's also add on some pre-Open Era players: Gonzalez, Kramer, Budge, Vines, and Tilden were all clearly ahead


all in all, Open Era hard courters based off their careers to date:

higher tier than Medvedev: Djokovic, Nadal, Federer, Murray, Agassi, Sampras, Becker, Edberg, Lendl, McEnroe, Connors

comparable tier to Medvedev: del Potro, Roddick, Hewitt, Courier, Wilander, Borg
 
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Angrybirdstar said:
my take from a while back:

TL;DR: maximum for pure Open Era (i.e. no crossovers from amateur era like Laver or Ashe) is #12, personally would put him around #15


the Open Era career win % list is a good start (for reference: Medvedev is at 75%, but goes up to around 79-80% if you filter starting somewhere in '19)

Medvedev is never passing Djokovic, Federer, Connors, Lendl, Laver, McEnroe, Sampras, or Agassi

assuming you look at level and not just major tallies, he's certainly not passing Edberg, Nadal, Becker, or Murray

you then get to the Ashe, Roddick, and Mecir trio. i don't really rate Roddick outside of '03-04 and '09, but he was doing the same "get to The Guy" bit, so i'd say Medvedev is in the same general elite to ATG range but a bit higher

idk if Ashe ever really tempered his game to the necessary degree for sustained hard court success - his best wins were a decider against his pigeonizer Laver in Tucson '74 (before losing to Newcombe), a decider against Nastase in Paris '75 (before losing to Okker), and a straight setter against Borg in the WCT Challenge Cup (before losing to Nastase). feels like he just couldn't keep it clean or consistent against top competition

Mecir was an overrated fraud. Medvedev would be justified in calling him a small cat who doesn't know how to serve fight

moving down the list for some argument material:

i would argue that Rosewall was clearly better. just looking at the Open Era, his win % goes from 73.8 to 76.9% if you stop at the end of '74, when he was 40 (!!!), rather than including the ~70 official matches he played up to '80. on the pro tour in knock-out tournaments with more than one set, he won hard court titles beating Trabert and Gonzalez once each, Hoad twice, and Laver thrice (two of those wins in Laver's peak year of '67). and obviously if you have a GOAT-tier backhand you're going to be an ATG hard courter

Courier and Wilander have more majors if you care about that. i would say that Medvedev is a clearly better server and returner than Courier and across their careers is a comparable baseliner (but '91-93 Courier clearly above). i'd say Wilander is a clearly better baseliner and net player and comparable or slightly better returner, but much weaker server. would tend towards Wilander >> Medvedev > Courier

if we want to talk about bad luck/flopping in hard court slams (depending on who you ask), there's Borg. injured in '78 and had to go against Connors, upset by a servebot in '79, lost a decider to McEnroe in '80, and lost a messy match to McEnroe again in '81. i'd lean towards flopping, and i think he wasn't always consistent on backhand depth and return potency, but i could see an argument based on his competition and his dominance against the field

for big serve & forehand guys, there's del Potro and Newcombe. playstyle wise, Newcombe certainly had the skills to drive Medvedev insane with his net play, but overall, i don't think he was all that great against top competition. meanwhile del Potro's slam was clearly much more impressive (demolishing Nadal before pulling it out against Federer), along with other '09, '13, Olympics, and Davis Cup results, so i'd say del Potro >> Medvedev > Newcombe

then for surprisingly aggressive retriever types, you have Hewitt and Chang. Hewitt has the slam while Chang doesn't, and after a certain point both of them were pretty impotent against top competition. i rate peak Hewitt and how he dealt with Sampras pretty highly, but he just fell off so fast with his injuries and not handling Federer... ehh would still say Hewitt > Medvedev > Chang

finally you have Alcaraz and Sinner threatening to overtake Medvedev by the end of all of their careers. not guaranteed, but certainly looking quite likely

rest of the hard court slam winners: Thiem, Cilic, Johansson, Kafelnikov, Korda, Wawrinka, Safin, and Rafter. briefly: peak-wise i only rate Safin and Rafter, and none of these have enough consistency for me to care about them as ATG hard-courters compared to Medvedev

bonus round, let's also add on some pre-Open Era players: Gonzalez, Kramer, Budge, Vines, and Tilden were all clearly ahead


all in all, Open Era hard courters based off their careers to date:

higher tier than Medvedev: Djokovic, Nadal, Federer, Murray, Agassi, Sampras, Becker, Edberg, Lendl, McEnroe, Connors

comparable tier to Medvedev: del Potro, Roddick, Hewitt, Courier, Wilander, Borg
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Murray might be above Med but how come he is in a separate tier ?
 
Angrybirdstar said:
Mecir was an overrated fraud. Medvedev would be justified in calling him a small cat who doesn't know how to serve fight
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Why are you so low on Mecir?

-74% winning percentage on hard courts;​
-finals at both the U.S. Open (beating Wilander & Becker) and the Australian Open (one of the two times he played it on hard courts);​
-won the Lipton when it was a 128 player, BO5-every-round event, beating Edberg in the QF and Lendl in the final;​
-won Indian Wells, beating Sampras/Chang/Connors/Noah (in an epic 5 set final); and​
-won the Olympics on hard courts​
 
Medvedev is a unique player. His movement and consistency for a guy his size isn’t exactly what you see. Guys 6’6 or taller don’t move like he does. Yet his court coverage has always been superb. He feasts on fast pace hard courts.

I’m interested to see how he fairs the rest of the year. He’s switched up some of his gear and tactics in coming in more during AO and attacking more.
 
ChrisJR3264 said:
Medvedev is a unique player. His movement and consistency for a guy his size isn’t exactly what you see. Guys 6’6 or taller don’t move like he does. Yet his court coverage has always been superb. He feasts on fast pace hard courts.

I’m interested to see how he fairs the rest of the year. He’s switched up some of his gear and tactics in coming in more during AO and attacking more.
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I think before RG 2025, he might be 2 time slam winner already.
 
Sport said:
Higher than Roddick.

1 US Open beating a Djokovic who was fighting for the CYGS > 1 US Open beaing the clay specialist Juan Carlos Ferrero.

1 ATP final > 0 ATP finals.

Multiple finals on both Slams on hard > 0 finals at the AO.
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Gotta take into account Medvedev lives in the weakest era, he's definitely no better than Roddick. Roddick could actually take it to Djokovic with a winning h2h whilst Med has a severely losing versus oldovic
 
buscemi said:
Why are you so low on Mecir?
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i wasn't being very serious and didn't want to spend time typing my way through his record (which i had seen). my serious take is that he belongs more in the range of the miscellaneous slam winners crowd, where he had notable wins and titles and could be said to have a threatening game when on, but that level wasn't overwhelmingly high (whether from serve, return, baselining, net play...) and he didn't sustain that level often enough

i think there are pretty reasonable asterisks about the competition Mecir faced and the level he brought in those matches (e.g., do we really weigh a win against a poor Lendl in '87 and a disappearing Noah post-2nd set in '89 that heavily, vs getting destroyed convincingly by Lendl in major finals). btw, i think one could argue the same sort of thing for Medvedev, but he holds a noticeable edge in his sheer reliability (regardless of CIE, different weights for tournaments, more hard courts, homogenization, etc. etc.)
 
TheGoldenEra1990’s said:
I can’t rank guys very high that have a habit of constantly blowing big leads in slam finals. 2 times in a row med blew a 2 set lead at the AO. Inexcusable. If you’re supposed to be rank highly you don’t do that
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Absolutely not, you're right. You're supposed to instead be like Murray, who lost AO three times in straight sets and twice in four, making sure that when you lose in four you end 0-6 just to 100% prove how great you are
 
Angrybirdstar said:
my take from a while back:

TL;DR: maximum for pure Open Era (i.e. no crossovers from amateur era like Laver or Ashe) is #12, personally would put him around #15


the Open Era career win % list is a good start (for reference: Medvedev is at 75%, but goes up to around 79-80% if you filter starting somewhere in '19)

Medvedev is never passing Djokovic, Federer, Connors, Lendl, Laver, McEnroe, Sampras, or Agassi

assuming you look at level and not just major tallies, he's certainly not passing Edberg, Nadal, Becker, or Murray

you then get to the Ashe, Roddick, and Mecir trio. i don't really rate Roddick outside of '03-04 and '09-10, but he was doing the same "get to The Guy" bit, so i'd say Medvedev is in the same general elite to ATG range but a bit higher

idk if Ashe ever really tempered his game to the necessary degree for sustained hard court success - his best wins were a decider against his pigeonizer Laver in Tucson '74 (before losing to Newcombe), a decider against Nastase in Paris '75 (before losing to Okker), and a straight setter against Borg in the WCT Challenge Cup (before losing to Nastase). feels like he just couldn't keep it clean or consistent against top competition

Mecir was an overrated fraud. Medvedev would be justified in calling him a small cat who doesn't know how to serve fight

moving down the list for some argument material:

i would argue that Rosewall was clearly better. just looking at the Open Era, his win % goes from 73.8 to 76.9% if you stop at the end of '74, when he was 40 (!!!), rather than including the ~70 official matches he played up to '80. on the pro tour in knock-out tournaments with more than one set, he won hard court titles beating Trabert and Gonzalez once each, Hoad twice, and Laver thrice (two of those wins in Laver's peak year of '67). and obviously if you have a GOAT-tier backhand you're going to be an ATG hard courter

Courier and Wilander have more majors if you care about that. i would say that Medvedev is a clearly better server and returner than Courier and across their careers is a comparable baseliner (but '91-93 Courier clearly above). i'd say Wilander is a clearly better baseliner and net player and comparable or slightly better returner, but much weaker server. would tend towards Wilander >> Medvedev > Courier

if we want to talk about bad luck/flopping in hard court slams (depending on who you ask), there's Borg. injured in '78 and had to go against Connors, upset by a servebot in '79, lost a decider to McEnroe in '80, and lost a messy match to McEnroe again in '81. i'd lean towards flopping, and i think he wasn't always consistent on backhand depth and return potency, but i could see an argument based on his competition and his dominance against the field

for big serve & forehand guys, there's del Potro and Newcombe. playstyle wise, Newcombe certainly had the skills to drive Medvedev insane with his net play, but overall, i don't think he was all that great against top competition. meanwhile del Potro's slam was clearly much more impressive (demolishing Nadal before pulling it out against Federer), along with other '09, '13, Olympics, and Davis Cup results, so i'd say del Potro >> Medvedev > Newcombe

then for surprisingly aggressive retriever types, you have Hewitt and Chang. Hewitt has the slam while Chang doesn't, and after a certain point both of them were pretty impotent against top competition. i rate peak Hewitt and how he dealt with Sampras pretty highly, but he just fell off so fast with his injuries and not handling Federer... ehh would still say Hewitt > Medvedev > Chang

finally you have Alcaraz and Sinner threatening to overtake Medvedev by the end of all of their careers. not guaranteed, but certainly looking quite likely

rest of the hard court slam winners: Thiem, Cilic, Johansson, Kafelnikov, Korda, Wawrinka, Safin, and Rafter. briefly: peak-wise i only rate Safin and Rafter, and none of these have enough consistency for me to care about them as ATG hard-courters compared to Medvedev

bonus round, let's also add on some pre-Open Era players: Gonzalez, Kramer, Budge, Vines, and Tilden were all clearly ahead


all in all, Open Era hard courters based off their careers to date:

higher tier than Medvedev: Djokovic, Nadal, Federer, Murray, Agassi, Sampras, Becker, Edberg, Lendl, McEnroe, Connors

comparable tier to Medvedev: del Potro, Roddick, Hewitt, Courier, Wilander, Borg
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Biased obviously, but to me Med is clearly above Del Potro. More Slam finals, way more Masters, and I don't think using national representation is all that fair when you're comparing against a player who hasn't been allowed to do that (and yet Med still has a Davis Cup and an ATP Cup). Del Potro's Slam win is in itself more impressive and there's no doubt he would have done more without injury, but if, if, if.

I also think on Hard he's well above Roddick too. His Slam win is more impressive than beating JCF and they're equal in Masters, and he has more HC slam finals + YEC and better national representation despite not being able to do it half his career.
 
Aestheticsaboveallelse said:
Gotta take into account Medvedev lives in the weakest era, he's definitely no better than Roddick. Roddick could actually take it to Djokovic with a winning h2h whilst Med has a severely losing versus oldovic
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Roddick beat Djokovic before he was really Djokovic, and by his own account quit before Djoko could turn that h2h around. Meanwhile, Med was fighting for titles when Djokovic was massively motivated to beat records before his career was over. Med still beat Djokovic on the way to a Masters title, a YEC title, and in a Grand Slam final. Whatever the h2h, he beat him often when it mattered
 
buscemi said:
Players with 2+ Majors on hard courts (in no particular order):

(1) Federer; (2) Djokovic; (3) Nadal; (4) Wawrinka; (5) Safin; (6) Rafter; (7) Agassi; (8) Sampras; (9) Courier; (10) Becker; (11) Edberg; (12) Wilander; (13) Lendl; (14) McEnroe; (15) Connors.​

Then, you have players like Medvedev, who had 1 hard courts Major. Again, in no particular order:

(1) Sinner; (2) Alcaraz; (3) Thiem; (4) Cilic; (5) Murray; (6) del Potro; (7) Roddick; (8) Hewitt; (9) Johansson; (10) Kafelnikov; (11) Korda​

Then, you have great hard court players who played most/all of their careers before hard court Majors like Laver and Newcombe.

Setting aside the older guys like Laver and Newk, I'd have Medvedev behind the 15 players with 2+ hard court Majors. The question then becomes how he compares with the other players who won 1 hard court Major. He's currently ahead of Sinner and Alcaraz, but they have plenty of time to pass him. I'd also have him ahead of Thiem, Cilic, Johansson, Kafelnikov, and Korda.

That puts Medvedev in the 16-20 range, behind the 2+ Major winners and in competition with Murray, del Potro, Roddick, and Hewitt. I'd have to think about how he measures up to them.
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Murray, Roddick, Hewitt, Delpo obviously better.
Alcaraz will be better in the future.
Borg was better even if he didn't won USO.

Med's not in the top 20 for me.
 
Indeedy71 said:
Roddick beat Djokovic before he was really Djokovic, and by his own account quit before Djoko could turn that h2h around. Meanwhile, Med was fighting for titles when Djokovic was massively motivated to beat records before his career was over. Med still beat Djokovic on the way to a Masters title, a YEC title, and in a Grand Slam final. Whatever the h2h, he beat him often when it mattered
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Djokovic was already really good before 2011 and importantly he was young unlike oldovic
 
Phoenix* said:
Federer was 2-7 against Hewitt until 2004. Federer was really good and was young too.
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Federer was only 200-107 or so in his matches to 200 wins... Nadal was 200-55 for example. Federer was a very slow starter

Also Hewitt was an unstoppable wrecking ball before then defeating all the top players
 
mike danny said:
Does struggling against mid 30's Djokodal somehow influence this debate or is everything only about numbers?
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Everyone has.
Medvedev will be a HOF player. He’s more like Hewitt. If he hits 500 HC wins he’ll be talked about as a great all time HC player.
 
mike danny said:
Yeah, but Med is the best player born in the 90's, ergo different expectations should be attached to him.
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He’s beaten Novak in a GS final.
The big 3 are different and why many consider them the 3 GOATs of not just their era but of all time who happen to still be dominate in their 30s.
 
ChrisJR3264 said:
He’s beaten Novak in a GS final.
The big 3 are different and why many consider them the 3 GOATs of not just their era but of all time who happen to still be dominate in their 30s.
Click to expand...
And yet Murray, Delpo, Safin and Stan all managed to win a combined 7 majors against them and yet the entire 90's decade only managed 1. That's why I was never on board with this assessment. Way too convenient and reads like a fairytale.
 
mike danny said:
And yet Murray, Delpo, Safin and Stan all managed to win a combined 7 majors against them and yet the entire 90's decade only managed 1. That's why I was never on board with this assessment. Way too convenient and reads like a fairytale.
Click to expand...
Everyone denies Djokovic olympics medals too... even busta and zverev :O
 
mike danny said:
I'd still pick Borg over Med in a hearbeat. Borg would've liked his chances against old Djokodal instead of prime Connors and Mac.
Click to expand...
He straight setted Connors in 81 USO SF and went to war with Mac over 5 in 80. And those were home crowd favorites so definitely stronger opposition at the USO than Djokodal. 21 Djoko who cried and gave up he could easily beat as well. Also wouldn't screw up a 2-0 lead against geriatric Nadal.
 
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