Where does Sharapova rank in the Open Era

Where does Maria rank in the Open Era

  • 12 or 13th best

    Votes: 16 28.6%

  • about 15th best

    Votes: 15 26.8%

  • somewhere from 16th to 20th best

    Votes: 8 14.3%

  • outside the top 20

    Votes: 17 30.4%
  • Total voters
    56
B

brystone

Semi-Pro
Now that is looks increasingly likely Sharapova has almost certainly won her final slam (if people doubt Serena winning more slams, just imagine Maria who is about 20 times less likely to win a future slam than Serena seeing the level of both women right now) where does she rank in the Open Era?

For me she is an intriguing case all around. She is 1 of only something like 9 womens in history with a Career Slam, but that is a feat achieved by someone like Shirley Fry, and which might well be achieved by Angelique Kerber, so it doesnt quite have the same lustre it does in the mens game. And even the feat in the mens game has lost a lot of its prestige in the era of homogenized playing conditions. Her longevity is outstanding, her consistency is so so in her injury plagued career, her dominance sucks and is in fact non existing. Her 5 slams is a pretty good number, her Premier and overall tournament tallies are respectable but not great for a 5 slam winner, her time at #1 sucks but is an overrated stat in the womens game anyway IMO. Add to all that the doping suspicions that now centre around her career, and what impact, if any, those make for people.

Breaking it down where does she fit. These are the players that it looks are clearly going to be above her:

Serena
Navratilova
Graf
Court
Evert
King
Venus
Seles
Henin
Goolagong
Bueno

Those are 11 Open Era players so the best she could possibly be is 12th. Next are the entire list of players who could be argued against her and those would be:

Hingis
Davenport
Clijsters
Sanchez Vicario
Capriati
Austin
Mandlikova


So her rank could be anywhere from a highest of 12th to a lowest of about 20th.

I am pretty sure I would put Hingis over her. Both have 5 slams, but apart from the Career Slam Hingis blows her away in every other department. Far more dominance, far greater consistency, 3 peat the Australian Open vs Maria who never defended a slam, 3 slam year in 97, doubles, eons more time at #1 which is hard to ignore even if I dont value the #1 ranking that much in womens tennis.

Davenport and Clijsters harder for me. Each are well above Sharapova in some ways but clearly behind her in others. Clijsters dominated a slam, was the Worlds best player in both 2005 and 2010 vs Maria who never was, has many more YEC titles, and better overall tournament, consistency, and dominance stats. Maria though has the extra slam and the Career Slam. Both have scant little time as the official #1 ranked. Davenport by contrast has a ton of time #1 ranked, 4 year end #1s, but was only actually the best player in the world in 98 and maybe 99. Maria again though was never the best player in the world. Davenport wins out on all dominance and consistency stats, maybe not longevity stats. I am not really sure how to rank those 3, other than I put all three behind Hingis. Game wise Davenport and Sharapova are very similar, with about equal power and ball striking, both amongst the best groundstroke sluggers in history even if Davenport was through great technique and coaching, and Maria it now appears through steroid use, ultimately arrived at roughly the same result. Both being extremely poor movers, but Davenport has a way better serve for most of her career (Maria only had a good serve in 2004-2006), Davenport having much better volleys but Sharapova mentally being far tougher. Clijsters moves far better, and has a better overall game than either Davenport or Sharapova, but is mentally even weaker than Davenport.

Sanchez I would have below Sharapova personally. She has only 1 fewer slam than Maria and a more impressive career in many respects, but I think she is a 2 slam winner at best without the Seles stabbing. That is a biggest cast than even the doping allegations.

Capriati I would also have behind Sharapova. Only 14 career titles and no Wimbledon or U.S Open final are big minuses.

Austin and Mandlikova are a difficult comparision as the focus of that era was so different. Austin was arguably the true #1 of either/both 1980 and 1981, and while she technically only won 2 slams given what were really the 4 biggest events those years won more like 5.

I see Maria slotting in around 15th or 16th overall going through everyone.
 
serveandvolley_ said:
I agree with this based on some stats, but I would also put Clijsters and Sanchez Vicario over her as well.

Final decision, no lower than Sanchez Vicario.
Click to expand...

I have a hard time giving Sanchez a good rank since I think she benefitted from the Seles stabbing even more than Graf did. Seles owned her. Then again it is hard to argue with her career. 4 slam wins, but lost some of the all time greatest slam finals, more slam finals than Sharapova, great array of tournament wins, Olympic medals, doubles, better Premier event record than Sharapova, and a great doubles career.
 
I can't put Bueno in as an Open Era player when she only had one good year in the Open Era. But I'd say the Open Era ranking is this:

1. Steffi Graf
2. Martina Navratilova
3. Serena Williams
4. Margaret Court
5. Chris Evert
6. Billie Jean King
7. Monica Seles
8. Evonne Goolagong
9. Justine Henin
10. Martina Hingis
11. Venus Williams
12. Kim Clijsters
13. Maria Sharapova
14. Lindsay Davenport
15. Arantxa Sanchez-Vicario
16. Hana Mandlikova
17. Virginia Wade
with Tracy Austin, Amelie Mauresmo, and Gabriela Sabatini basically tied between 18-20.
 
What major WTA titles has she won since being banned from the sport for taking performance enhancing drugs? She has won a single low level event in 2017.

Seems like taking drugs made all the difference

She rates a 0 out of 1000
 
She never defended a GS, unlike even Azarenka or Clijsters. However, she's won every big title on the tour other than Miami (AO, IW, Madrid, Rome, RG, Wimby, Cincy, USO, Beijing, WTA Finals) So she's clearly right up there. Definitely on par with Hingis and below Venus and Henin.
 
I'm not entirely sure she's done winning Slams, you can never discount her on clay especially after AO whereby she actually played pretty well for three matches and then again in St. Petersburg recently, her level on clay can get pretty high even if she's not had the greatest form leading in (take 2014 for example)
 
zvelf said:
I can't put Bueno in as an Open Era player when she only had one good year in the Open Era. But I'd say the Open Era ranking is this:

1. Steffi Graf
2. Martina Navratilova
3. Serena Williams
4. Margaret Court
5. Chris Evert
6. Billie Jean King
7. Monica Seles
8. Evonne Goolagong
9. Justine Henin
10. Martina Hingis
11. Venus Williams
12. Kim Clijsters
13. Maria Sharapova
14. Lindsay Davenport
15. Arantxa Sanchez-Vicario
16. Hana Mandlikova
17. Virginia Wade
with Tracy Austin, Amelie Mauresmo, and Gabriela Sabatini basically tied between 18-20.
Click to expand...

You have Clijsters over Davenport. That is interesting. I am not sure whether to rank Sharapova above or behind either one, but for some reason I always thought it was an easy call to put Davenport over Clijsters. Even though Davenport went winless against Clijsters on hard courts (their mutual best surface) the final 7 years of their career or something.

I dont agree with Goolagong over any of Henin, Hingis, or Venus at all. No way with 4 of her 7 slams at the joke non slam Aussie Open, going 9 years in her prime between non Australian Open titles, and almost no time at #1 would I put her over any of those, but I respect your opinion. The highest I would ever put Goolagong though on that list is 11th behind all of Henin, Hingis, and Venus.
 
Rabe87 said:
I'm not entirely sure she's done winning Slams, you can never discount her on clay especially after AO whereby she actually played pretty well for three matches and then again in St. Petersburg recently, her level on clay can get pretty high even if she's not had the greatest form leading in (take 2014 for example)
Click to expand...

She would have to improve by a good 30% on anything she has shown since returning to tennis to have a hope of surviving a 7 match draw to win a slam, and that is even with an easy dream draw. Since coming back she has made only 1 quarterfinal of a slam, where she got 3 games off a badly slumping Muguruza.

Beyond that though she is 32 at the time of the next slam. The only players that age or older to win a slam in the Open are Navratilova (only 1 Wimbledon) and obviously Serena. The only player who won slams over longer than a 13 year stretch is Serena, not even Navratilova, Graf, Evert could manage it. Maria would be on a 15 year stretch and counting as her first slam win was at Wimbledon 2004. Forgive me if I find that far fetched to believe happening, particularly while she visibly struggles whilst going on 32, and the WTA finally has its first young stars in almost a whole decade emerging now.
 
brystone said:
She would have to improve by a good 30% on anything she has shown since returning to tennis to have a hope of surviving a 7 match draw to win a slam, and that is even with an easy dream draw. Since coming back she has made only 1 quarterfinal of a slam, where she got 3 games off a badly slumping Muguruza.

Beyond that though she is 32 at the time of the next slam. The only players that age or older to win a slam in the Open are Navratilova (only 1 Wimbledon) and obviously Serena. The only player who won slams over longer than a 13 year stretch is Serena, not even Navratilova, Graf, Evert could manage it. Maria would be on a 15 year stretch and counting as her first slam win was at Wimbledon 2004. Forgive me if I find that far fetched to believe happening, particularly while she visibly struggles whilst going on 32, and the WTA finally has its first young stars in almost a whole decade emerging now.
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Venus and Henin are underrated, both of them in their prime were absolutely peerless at the time. Muguruza wasn't badly slumping at RG last year, she started to slump after that. On clay, she's also someone who can pull form from thin air. People used to say this about Maria in 2014 and she had a *marathon* 1st rounder in Stuttgart against Safarova and narrowly got out of that one, people were saying she's absolutely finished. She went on to win Stuttgart, Madrid and RG that year. If a player has done something to that effect before, they can't be discounted to do it again. Particularly when she's playing the best tennis of her comeback, beating players 6-0 6-0 and 6-0 6-2 in Slams is what the old Sharapova used to do pretty regularly, and she's got a much better serve than she had last year. Her forehand is lethal on clay so when she has a deep run / wins RG I'll come back to this thread and remind you of what a great dirt-baller can achieve regardless of age.
 
Rabe87 said:
Venus and Henin are underrated, both of them in their prime were absolutely peerless at the time. Muguruza wasn't badly slumping at RG last year, she started to slump after that. On clay, she's also someone who can pull form from thin air. People used to say this about Maria in 2014 and she had a *marathon* 1st rounder in Stuttgart against Safarova and narrowly got out of that one, people were saying she's absolutely finished. She went on to win Stuttgart, Madrid and RG that year. If a player has done something to that effect before, they can't be discounted to do it again. Particularly when she's playing the best tennis of her comeback, beating players 6-0 6-0 and 6-0 6-2 in Slams is what the old Sharapova used to do pretty regularly, and she's got a much better serve than she had last year. Her forehand is lethal on clay so when she has a deep run / wins RG I'll come back to this thread and remind you of what a great dirt-baller can achieve regardless of age.
Click to expand...

Garbine was destroyed in about an hour by Halep in the semis. I doubt she was playing that well at RG. And her results prior to RG were already sinking badly from late 2017. I think it is safe to say she was already slumping.

I dont think anyone sane would have ever said Maria was near finished in 2014. Maybe some stupid people said that. Today is a drastically different situation though. I understand you are a fan and want to hope, and that is fine so I am not going to argue with you, but I would be stunned if she ever won another slam at this point. I would be less stunned by a 2nd RG title for Federer than another slam win for Maria at this point. If she somehow does it then kudos to her, but i will be amazed.
 
However the clay season is my fav of the year (pretty much ignore the rest of the year) and I have deep respect for what she can do in that part of the season. Her three-set record on clay must be extraordinarily good.
 
It's even harder with the WTA and those Aussie Opens. Less money means even worse draws. Goolagong just doesn't cut it for me.

1. Graf
2. Navratilova
3. Serena
4. Evert
5. Seles
6. Court
7. King
8. Venus
9. Henin
10. Hingis
11. Clijsters
12. Maria
 
zvelf said:
I can't put Bueno in as an Open Era player when she only had one good year in the Open Era. But I'd say the Open Era ranking is this:

1. Steffi Graf
2. Martina Navratilova
3. Serena Williams
4. Margaret Court
5. Chris Evert
6. Billie Jean King
7. Monica Seles
8. Evonne Goolagong
9. Justine Henin
10. Martina Hingis
11. Venus Williams
12. Kim Clijsters
13. Maria Sharapova
14. Lindsay Davenport
15. Arantxa Sanchez-Vicario
16. Hana Mandlikova
17. Virginia Wade
with Tracy Austin, Amelie Mauresmo, and Gabriela Sabatini basically tied between 18-20.
Click to expand...

Serena Williams below Steffi and Navratilova, Venus below Henin and Sanchez Vicario below Sharapova? Wrong.

BGod said:
It's even harder with the WTA and those Aussie Opens. Less money means even worse draws. Goolagong just doesn't cut it for me.

1. Graf
2. Navratilova
3. Serena
4. Evert
5. Seles
6. Court
7. King
8. Venus
9. Henin
10. Hingis
11. Clijsters
12. Maria
Click to expand...

Sanchez Vicario should be in there.
 
You possess no analytical ability whatsoever if you think you can only take one factor into consideration here.

But of course it suits your prejudice so you will pluck anything out of the air.

Deon Sanders said:
What major WTA titles has she won since being banned from the sport for taking performance enhancing drugs? She has won a single low level event in 2017.

Seems like taking drugs made all the difference

She rates a 0 out of 1000
Click to expand...
 
Her career slam is nice, but nowadays it certainly means a little less than it once did, especially given she completed it during this embarrassing scrub era in the womens game.

The thing she really deserves credit for is how after she had that shoulder surgery in 2009 that totally robbed her of her top 2 or 3 serve in the world she has kept plugging along for a decade, made it back to both the Australian and Wimbledon finals, and most importantly added a pair of majors at the place least reliant upon the serve that she no longer had.

She really doesn't have all that much game, but between the ears she's so strong that she's willed herself to the place she's gotten to. Unfortunately for her she's got this woman in her way who is on her level mentally, but totally beyond her physically.

She'd definitely be in the top 20. Beyond that it's tough to say. The only ones in that second group of yours I'd definitely put her below is Arantxa, but then there's a couple in that first list I'd put her right there with also.
 
serveandvolley_ said:
Serena Williams below Steffi and Navratilova, Venus below Henin and Sanchez Vicario below Sharapova? Wrong.
Click to expand...
When Serena had less slams than Steffi, it was always no. of slams that mattered, now that she has surpassed her people will bring up other irrelevant things they didn't mention when Serena was at 21.

ibbi said:
Her career slam is nice, but nowadays it certainly means a little less than it once did, especially given she completed it during this embarrassing scrub era in the womens game.

The thing she really deserves credit for is how after she had that shoulder surgery in 2009 that totally robbed her of her top 2 or 3 serve in the world she has kept plugging along for a decade, made it back to both the Australian and Wimbledon finals, and most importantly added a pair of majors at the place least reliant upon the serve that she no longer had.

She really doesn't have all that much game, but between the ears she's so strong that she's willed herself to the place she's gotten to. Unfortunately for her she's got this woman in her way who is on her level mentally, but totally beyond her physically.

She'd definitely be in the top 20. Beyond that it's tough to say. The only ones in that second group of yours I'd definitely put her below is Arantxa, but then there's a couple in that first list I'd put her right there with also.
Click to expand...

And credit for consistency, pretty sure she's been in the Top 10 for many weeks running consecutively.

And same level mentally as Serena? She isn't :D, the record doesn't help much either.
 
BGod said:
It's even harder with the WTA and those Aussie Opens. Less money means even worse draws. Goolagong just doesn't cut it for me.

1. Graf
2. Navratilova
3. Serena
4. Evert
5. Seles
6. Court
7. King
8. Venus
9. Henin
10. Hingis
11. Clijsters
12. Maria
Click to expand...

I agree on the Aussie Open but I could never see Seles above Court. Even taking away the Australian Open Court has like triple the slams of Seles (13 to 5). I know Seles had the stabbing happen and everything, but even so, and you probably arent even considering that anyway if you have Graf at #1.

I could also never see Court and King that close given that they were exact contemporaries and arch rivals and Court owned King in every respect so far.
 
brystone said:
I agree on the Aussie Open but I could never see Seles above Court. Even taking away the Australian Open Court has like triple the slams of Seles (13 to 5). I know Seles had the stabbing happen and everything, but even so, and you probably arent even considering that anyway if you have Graf at #1.

I could also never see Court and King that close given that they were exact contemporaries and arch rivals and Court owned King in every respect so far.
Click to expand...

From 1991 to early 1993 Seles had a 55-1 record in Grand Slam's. She won 7 out of the 8 Grand Slam's she participated in. Graf won 2 in this period and won where Seles did not participate. Then Graf wins 6 more slams until Seles' comeback following the stabbing in the middle of 1993.

Edit: Just saw your edit.
 
ausfrewimuso said:
From 1991 to early 1993 Seles had a 55-1 record in Grand Slam's. She won 7 out of the 8 Grand Slam's she participated in. Graf won 2 in this period and won where Seles did not participate. Then Graf wins 6 more slams until Seles' comeback following the stabbing in the middle of 1993.

Edit: Just saw your edit.
Click to expand...

Seles skipped Wimbledon 91 which she was 99% likely to lose so I take that 55-1 with a large grain of salt, there would be 2 losses if she actually played the 9th slam.

Court from 69-early 71 was even more dominant. She won 8 of 9 slams (vs 7 of 9 for Seles), and the Grand Slam in 70. I believe in one of those years she lost only 2 matches vs Seles who in her best year ever lost 6 matches and to 5 different women. From 62 to 65 Court was the #1 player 4 straight years and nearly did the Grand Slam 2 of those 4 IIRC. Court was more dominant than even 90-93 Seles, so even that isnt a case for Seles to be over Corut.

I agree on Graf but that is why I was noting he/she had Graf at #1, since obviously doesnt care about the stabbing or what ifs of that much or any if still has Graf at #1 (which is totally fine, I prefer to stay away from what ifs myself) making ranking Seles higher than Court even more baffling to try and figure out.
 
Anyone who puts Serena below the #1 spot really needs to re-watch her matches. Her best is better than anything anyone thought possible from a female tennis player, particularly between 2012-2015 where she peaked at unbelievable levels. 2013 U.S Open for me was her absolute maximum level, my god she was perfection off every stroke.
 
Rabe87 said:
Anyone who puts Serena below the #1 spot really needs to re-watch her matches. Her best is better than anything anyone thought possible from a female tennis player, particularly between 2012-2015 where she peaked at unbelievable levels. 2013 U.S Open for me was her absolute maximum level, my god she was perfection off every stroke.
Click to expand...

Number of slams doesn't matter now that Serena has 23, that's TTW for you.

Mr.Lob said:
Navratilova
Evert
Graf
Sharapova
Serena
Click to expand...

You wish, not with that 2-17 record:-D.
 
ausfrewimuso said:
Number of slams doesn't matter now that Serena has 23, that's TTW for you.



You wish, not with that 2-17 record:-D.
Click to expand...

Yeah Number of Slams is meaningless unless it's Federdone, then it's the sole marker of GOAT-ism. Sharapova's provided some hilarious highlight reels against Rena, the 2012 Olympic final is my personal fav, Pova won like 4 points in the 1st set and got aced about 20 times. Priceless.
 
serveandvolley_ said:
Serena Williams below Steffi and Navratilova, Venus below Henin and Sanchez Vicario below Sharapova? Wrong.
Click to expand...
Rabe87 said:
Anyone who puts Serena below the #1 spot really needs to re-watch her matches. Her best is better than anything anyone thought possible from a female tennis player, particularly between 2012-2015 where she peaked at unbelievable levels. 2013 U.S Open for me was her absolute maximum level, my god she was perfection off every stroke.
Click to expand...

They're all frauds. Nothing you can do to cure them.
 
Assuming the doping didn’t help her, I’d put everyone above her who the OP did (although note that Bueno didn’t win anything in the Open Era). Hingis would also be above her.

Considering the doping, which we really should, I think she has one legit slam (W 2004) and is thus much lower ranked.
 
Phoenix1983 said:
Assuming the doping didn’t help her, I’d put everyone above her who the OP did (although note that Bueno didn’t win anything in the Open Era). Hingis would also be above her.

Considering the doping, which we really should, I think she has one legit slam (W 2004) and is thus much lower ranked.
Click to expand...
You do realize doping is rife in tennis? Have you had a look at the therapeutic use exemptions list? 60% of the top 100 in the ATP and WTA have a diagnosis of Asthma (inhalers give a temporary boost to lung function), meanwhile you've got a lot of players (Serena and Venus included) who are on 4 or more medications as a result of the super lenient TUE. Getting down to murkier depths and you've got your banned performance-enhancers. The ITF is principally in charge of the anti-doping policy, Sharapova was caught by WADA which used her to make an example.

However, at one point in time she was on *30 medications* (all legal) so that does call into question alot of things, but at the top of the game if players don't take advantage of the TUE, they're immediately at a disadvantage. It's a catch-22.
 
Also tennis would have to be the only sport whereby players can decline a test up to three times a year when they're visited by the ITF anti-doping personnel. I mean if that's not lenient, I don't know what is.
 
In no particular order, I’d rank these following players all above Maria:
Graf
Navratilova
Serena
Evert
Seles
King
Court
Henin
Venus
Hingis
Goolagong

She’s debatable with players like Clijsters and Davenport between 11-13. She’s solidly ahead of ASV, Capriati, and Mandlikova tho
 
Last edited:
bigserving said:
Sharapova is obviously a fraud. Solid journeywoman pro. She, in no way ever should be mentioned among the greats of this sport.
Click to expand...
She's had an amazing career on clay, at least 14 claycourt titles including 2 RG's, hard to argue she's one of the ATG's if players like Kvitová and Osaka are already being ushered into the HoF
 
clout said:
In no particular order, I’d rank these following players all above Maria:
Graf
Navratilova
Serena
Evert
Seles
King
Court
Henin
Venus
Hingis

She’s debatable with players like Clijsters and Davenport between 11-13. She’s solidly ahead of ASV, Capriati, and Mandlikova tho
Click to expand...

What about Goolagong?
 
Shaolin said:
Right alongside Lance Armstrong and Ben Johnson.
Click to expand...

But behind the Hulkster.


4171d8ba5ae32f820f0d628c8bff1184.jpg
 
Phoenix1983 said:
Assuming the doping didn’t help her, I’d put everyone above her who the OP did (although note that Bueno didn’t win anything in the Open Era). Hingis would also be above her.

Considering the doping, which we really should, I think she has one legit slam (W 2004) and is thus much lower ranked.
Click to expand...

Erm-she wasn't taking anything deemed illegal until that one test failure. This is again the faulty logic that anybody who won a slam taking caffeine-which is likely every player since it was taken off the banned list in 2004 have not won their slams legit. You also have the issue of the top woman possibly ever being given doctor's notes to put PED's in her body legally.
 
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