Where does WTF stand?

Where does WTF stand?

  • Total voters
    113
Omega_7000

Omega_7000

Legend
To sensible posters it would seem WTF would be somewhere below a major and higher than MS1000 and Olympics...But some folks think WTF is merely an exhibition and the ATP awards 1500 points for a glorified exhibition.

Barclays-ATP-World-Tour-Finals-2012-660x330.jpg


So I've got a poll to see how people rank the WTF here.

Also here is a list of WTF winners over the years:

2013  Novak Djokovic (3/3)
2012  Novak Djokovic (2/3)
2011  Roger Federer (6/6)
2010  Roger Federer (5/6)
2009  Nikolay Davydenko
2008  Novak Djokovic (1/3)
2007  Roger Federer (4/6)
2006  Roger Federer (3/6)
2005  David Nalbandian
2004  Roger Federer (2/6)
2003  Roger Federer (1/6)
2002  Lleyton Hewitt (2/2)
2001  Lleyton Hewitt (1/2)
2000  Gustavo Kuerten
1999  Pete Sampras (5/5)
1998  Àlex Corretja
1997  Pete Sampras (4/5)
1996  Pete Sampras (3/5)
1995  Boris Becker (3/3)
1994  Pete Sampras (2/5)
1993  Michael Stich
1992  Boris Becker (2/3)
1991  Pete Sampras (1/5)
1990  Andre Agassi
1989  Stefan Edberg
1988  Boris Becker (1/3)
1987  Ivan Lendl (5/5)
1986  Ivan Lendl (4/5)
1985  Ivan Lendl (3/5)
1984  John McEnroe (3/3)
1983  John McEnroe (2/3)
1982  Ivan Lendl (2/5)
1981  Ivan Lendl (1/5)
1980  Björn Borg (2/2)
1979  Björn Borg (1/2)
1978  John McEnroe (1/3)
1977  Jimmy Connors
1976  Manuel Orantes
1975  Ilie Năstase (4/4)
1974  Guillermo Vilas
1973  Ilie Năstase (3/4)
1972  Ilie Năstase (2/4)
1971  Ilie Năstase (1/4)
1970  Stan Smith
 
Last edited:
I rate it just above a regular Masters, and about equal with the Olympics and Davis Cup. Way below a slam. Way above a 500 event. In the days the Australian and French were less important it was a bigger event than it is in modern times. Davis Cup also used to be a bigger event than what it is today.
 
I'm on my phone so I can't vote yet. But for me between slams and masters.

1500 points as well so mathematically makes sense as well.
 
robertharris said:
I rate it just above a regular Masters, and about equal with the Olympics and Davis Cup. Way below a slam. Way above a 500 event. In the days the Australian and French were less important it was a bigger event than it is in modern times. Davis Cup also used to be a bigger event than what it is today.
Click to expand...

Didn't include Davis cup because although important, it's a team event...
 
The ENTIRE TOUR is an exhibition, perhaps glorified; stop overthinking this nonsense about what tournament is more "important" (whatever that means); these debates about whether Wimbledon is more "important" than the USO or whether an Olympic medal is more important than a slam have all the authority of a theological debate. Each player has his own concept of what is most important to him. To the rest of us, it's entertainment.
 
El Diablo said:
The ENTIRE TOUR is an exhibition, perhaps glorified; stop overthinking this nonsense about what tournament is more "important" (whatever that means); these debates about whether Wimbledon is more "important" than the USO or whether an Olympic medal is more important than a slam have all the authority of a theological debate. Each player has his own concept of what is most important to him. To the rest of us, it's entertainment.
Click to expand...

QFT...One of the most profound things I have read on this topic.

But for the sake of entertainment, let's argue about it anyway... :-D
 
Below a slam, above a Masters. Definitely a lot closer to a Masters 1000 title than a slam though IMO, the majors are in a league of their own. The Olympcis are tricky because they weren't always considered important. For the last 5 or 6 years at least though, it seems like they've been considered a very big deal by most of the players. Not sure why the sudden shift, but I'd bet that Nadal, Federer, Djokovic, and Murray would ALL rather have an Olympic gold than the WTF.
 
Obviously above MS1000 and MS500. It's certainly not a worthless exhibition.

I don't know whether it's higher than the Olympics, I mean the Olympics being held every 4 years is certainly unique as the winner of the Gold medal you'll be the title holder for 4 years. I'd personally rate it probably on par with the WTF.
 
It's code name resumes it everything: ATP1500

That means, better than a M1000, but not as important as GS.

Not that hard, isn't it ?


As for the olympics, this a different land here and the answers will always be biased because of the fact that the gold medal started to became "important" (specially for all this Roger vs Rafa goat contest bs) since 2008.
 
To me, it poses a pretty good competitive challenge. You need to play I believe it is 5 different players from the top 8 in order to win the tournament. You play 3 round robins, then on the semi you cross over the other group, play that individual, then play a different individual for the finals. So top 5 out of 8 players is pretty extensive in how much it challenges you. The main challenge of a Grandslam is that you play 5 sets as opposed to 3 at WTF. Now the cheap trick that grandslam events play is that if you're a top player, the real challenge doesn't start until the second week. So although you play a 2 week event, the challenge comes only on the last week and in some cases it comes only in the quarters to the end. You're given one day rest and you play on every other day. The challenge that comes with 500 and 1k masters tournies is you play the best (in 500 you play only those top who elect to participate in that tournament because there's no mandate on who needs to attend). But you play a pretty good cropping of competitive players, but you do so with no rest - that it is played every day until the tournament is over.

I think WTF is great and super competitive. I think the points are placed accurately because you can't equate it with the same pts value of a grandslam just because of the length of it being played over a fortnight. But in all honesty, I think it's harder to make the finals of the WTF than a grandslam because you could not qualify for an elimination if you lose just one match to a very talented player. I think that's one reason Nadal has such a hard time winning that event. You can't really favor your odds on a lucky draw. You really have nothing to hide behind. If nadal is just having a bad day and isn't playing well, but he drew daniel brands that day as a first round match up, he's spared in a way from a bit of pressure, as opposed to if he draws Wawrinka in a round robin the pressure does not go away, every day is a competitive player that has earned their place in that match up. Unless it's Gasquet, and then you just lose all your matches anyways.
 
Definintely higher than MS1000, and definitely lower than a GS,

Comparing it with the Olympics, well, that's harder.
It's just a little hard to compare them imo. The olympics have the additional allure/prestige of playing for your country and winning an olympic medal. An olympic medl speaks to everybody's imagination, whether tennis fan or not. WTF only means something to tennis fans.

The olympics have arguably become very important to tennis players in only the past 12-16 years or so, and right now I think almost every tennis player would choose a gold medal over a WTF victory.

The WTF, on the other hand, at this point still has slightly more significance when it comes to a player's place in the annals of tennis. The main reason most players would choose a gold medal is simply because of the reasons I mentioned above.

In short: olympics or WTF, it depends who you ask :) Personally, I rate the olympics higher.
 
President said:
Below a slam, above a Masters. Definitely a lot closer to a Masters 1000 title than a slam though IMO, the majors are in a league of their own. The Olympcis are tricky because they weren't always considered important. For the last 5 or 6 years at least though, it seems like they've been considered a very big deal by most of the players. Not sure why the sudden shift, but I'd bet that Nadal, Federer, Djokovic, and Murray would ALL rather have an Olympic gold than the WTF.
Click to expand...

Whoops, missed your post, in which you already said basically the same as I did :)
 
Way below a grand slam but above Masters 1000s.

It terms of points it's also above the Olympics (750) which is even lower than a Masters. In terms of prestige, I'd consider a OG worth more than a WTF.

If I were a tennis player, I'd choose OG over the WTF just because it means a lot to win something big for your country in the biggest sporting event of the world watched by billions of people.

However, I also consider WTF a significant title, not a glorified exho.
 
chicagodude said:
Definintely higher than MS1000, and definitely lower than a GS,

Comparing it with the Olympics, well, that's harder.
It's just a little hard to compare them imo. The olympics have the additional allure/prestige of playing for your country and winning an olympic medal. An olympic medl speaks to everybody's imagination, whether tennis fan or not. WTF only means something to tennis fans.

The olympics have arguably become very important to tennis players in only the past 12-16 years or so, and right now I think almost every tennis player would choose a gold medal over a WTF victory.

The WTF, on the other hand, at this point still has slightly more significance when it comes to a player's place in the annals of tennis greats. The main reason most players would choose a gold medal is simply because of the reasons I mentioned above.

In short: olympics or WFT, it depends who you ask :)
Click to expand...

Ask any player or sportswriter.....

All the media talk about how Fed has a hole in his résumé because he didnt win it.......

You know how many articles there are about WTF? One !!! Yup just one and rf2lennon found it......it was just written now. I didn't read it though.....it may be a blog spot......certainly not going to be in Time or sports illustrated.

Come on guys......it's not even close.
 
chicagodude said:
Why would you rate the Olympics lower than MS1000? I'm sure Djokovic would gladly give back 10 MS1000 titles in return for a gold medal...
Click to expand...

You would be wrong.

Look at it objectively.....look at the audience, look at the exposure.....it's just not even close.

This past olympics came as close to a slam as you can get. Played at Wimbledon....and a repeat of Murray Joker.

How do you guys compare?

You don't see Federer rolling on the floor doing weird things to warwinka at the WTF do you? :-)
 
The Dark Knight said:
You would be wrong.

Look at it objectively.....look at the audience, look at the exposure.....it's just not even close.

This past olympics came as close to a slam as you can get. Played at Wimbledon....and a repeat of Murray Joker.

How do you guys compare?

You don't see Federer rolling on the floor doing weird things to warwinka at the WTF do you? :-)
Click to expand...

? How would I then be wrong if I say Djokovic would gladly give back 10 MS1000 titles in return for an Olympic gold?
 
KillerServe said:
Tennis longevity. You can't all of a sudden introduce a 5th slam and say Borg never won it.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but by the same token, you can also wonder why we consider e.g. the AO in GS count, which was much much less important in the past with many players skipping the event. The MS1000 events were also not as important in the past, in fact it's not always even that clear which ones in the old days we should now consider MS1000 titles...
 
chicagodude said:
Yeah, but by the same token, you can also wonder why we consider e.g. the AO in GS count, which was much much less important in the past with many players skipping the event. The MS1000 events were also not as important in the past, in fact it's not always even that clear which ones in the old days we should now consider MS1000 titles...
Click to expand...

Absolutely agree, which is why for me Borg is still #2 all time. Although it's not exactly the same since AO was technically there at least. The super 9 are the MS1000's, they have been there a very long time as has WTF. Olympics is effectively meaningless in tennis all-time ranking terms.
 
Slam>Masters>Olympics>Davis Cup>WTF. At least these days

And it shows.. because most of the top guys SUCK indoors today and have for years now which automatically tells me they don't put much stock or emphasis on it. . The last great Indoor player I saw before Federer was Sampras/Becker

A top indoor player today (Which I guess is Nole and Nadal?), wouldn't even be close to the top in eras past. Especially if it was carpet
 
Last edited:
chicagodude said:
? How would I then be wrong if I say Djokovic would gladly give back 10 MS1000 titles in return for an Olympic gold?
Click to expand...

Novak Djokovic: Olympic gold medal "right up there" with Grand Slams

World number two Novak Djokovic has said that winning an Olympic gold medal would be as big an achievement as claiming a Grand Slam.

The 25-year-old, who has won five Grand Slams, took a bronze at his first Olympic Games in Beijing four years ago.

Speaking of what a gold medal would mean and the disappointment of losing in the last four at Wimbledon, the Serbian said: "First of all, it's not a disappointment playing semi-finals. Second of all, it would mean a lot to me.

"Of course, it would be probably right up there with all the Grand Slams that I won because I'm playing here for my country in the first place.

"That's something that we as tennis players don't get to experience too much because we're individual athletes."



Name a pro.....any pro....and I'll show you the quote. You can post what joker just said recently.....but every pro agrees....Serena literally said she would give back her trophies for Olympic gold.

But this is useless ....why do I bother?? WTF or olympics? This is a no brainier. I gotta run. Debate your little hearts content away.
 
The Dark Knight said:
Ask any player or sportswriter.....

All the media talk about how Fed has a hole in his résumé because he didnt win it.......

You know how many articles there are about WTF? One !!! Yup just one and rf2lennon found it......it was just written now. I didn't read it though.....it may be a blog spot......certainly not going to be in Time or sports illustrated.

Come on guys......it's not even close.
Click to expand...

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/02/s...or-nadal.html?pagewanted=2&smid=tw-share&_r=0 actually NY Times mate! and actually it has a quote from Manuel Santana saying that the WTF is a very important tournament for Nadal and that he needs to win it!

But back to the OP this is how my list would look. (not including Davis Cup)

Slams
WTF
Olympics (the only reason its above masters is because the final is best of 5 and it has some sort of significance)
Masters 1000
500
 
The Dark Knight said:
Novak Djokovic: Olympic gold medal "right up there" with Grand Slams

World number two Novak Djokovic has said that winning an Olympic gold medal would be as big an achievement as claiming a Grand Slam.

The 25-year-old, who has won five Grand Slams, took a bronze at his first Olympic Games in Beijing four years ago.

Speaking of what a gold medal would mean and the disappointment of losing in the last four at Wimbledon, the Serbian said: "First of all, it's not a disappointment playing semi-finals. Second of all, it would mean a lot to me.

"Of course, it would be probably right up there with all the Grand Slams that I won because I'm playing here for my country in the first place.

"That's something that we as tennis players don't get to experience too much because we're individual athletes."



Name a pro.....any pro....and I'll show you the quote. You can post what joker just said recently.....but every pro agrees....Serena literally said she would give back her trophies for Olympic gold.

But this is useless ....why do I bother?? WTF or olympics? This is a no brainier. I gotta run. Debate your little hearts content away.
Click to expand...

I'm gett seriously annoyed and ****ed off with your replies. Read my posts again and you'll see that your arguing against A STANCE I DON'T HAVE!
 
So far I see majority agree that WTF > MS1000 and WTF < Major

The only confusion is between WTF and Olympics. Ever since Federer has expressed desire to win Olympics gold, it has been hyped up by the media as something you need to win to complete your resume.

Where do you draw the line? How many WTF's would be equivalent to a Olympic Gold medal? Please be unbiased towards your favorite player while answering this.
 
Omega_7000 said:
So far I see majority agree that WTF > MS1000 and WTF < Major

The only confusion is between WTF and Olympics. Ever since Federer has expressed desire to win Olympics gold, it has been hyped up by the media as something you need to win to complete your resume.

Where do you draw the line? How many WTF's would be equivalent to a Olympic Gold medal? Please be unbiased towards your favorite player while answering this.
Click to expand...

IMO WTF>Olympics. More ranking points. You have to QUALIFY and beat the best of the year to win. Not everyone is that patriotic. Most of the GOAT candidates or ex candidates don't have it. WTF gets more attention via more coverage and viewership then the tennis Olympics (not Olympics as a whole) so yeah.
 
The Dark Knight said:
Retarted thread.

Olympics is known as the golden grand slam, the audience is worldwide, there are more articles written about one olympics than all the WTFs put together, it is automatic entry into the hall of fame, everyone knows about it......

I can't believe how pathetic this board is.
Click to expand...

Also Olympics final 5 sets > WTF final 3 sets
 
The prestige of the tournament is lowered due to the format of the tournament.

Instead of this silly round robin group stage business, make it a knockout format.

Also, bring back 5 set finals.
 
Omega_7000 said:
So far I see majority agree that WTF > MS1000 and WTF < Major

The only confusion is between WTF and Olympics. Ever since Federer has expressed desire to win Olympics gold, it has been hyped up by the media as something you need to win to complete your resume.

Where do you draw the line? How many WTF's would be equivalent to a Olympic Gold medal? Please be unbiased towards your favorite player while answering this.
Click to expand...

I think this kind of arithmetics are pointless.

How many M1000 equal a Slam?...Pointless. I'd rather win a Slam.
 
Firing Forehand said:
If you only look at the points, then... Bercy+Toronto+Vina del Mar > Wimbledon

Points are irrelevant regarding greatness
Click to expand...

No ones talking about greatness. LOL.

Not having the olympic gold on the resume is not too big of a deal but not having a tournament that's played every year shows quite a bit.
That's one reason why the WTF is held in such high regard on the resume.

As far as adding tournaments, I wouldn't go there myself. :)
 
It really depends on what year it is; what is up for grabs, who is playing, who is which group. It can either be really intense or just be a glorified exo where the players can't wait to get on a private jet and start their break.
 
Talker said:
No ones talking about greatness. LOL.
Click to expand...

Of course we're speaking about greatness and prestige. That's what this is all about. We dont need to argue about points. ATP rankings are in the website. But once again, points doesnt equal prestige. Bercy+MC = WB? I dont think so.

Talker said:
Not having the olympic gold on the resume is not too big of a deal but not having a tournament that's played every year shows quite a bit.
Click to expand...

I think both are important in any resume, but since Olympics is worth more than WTF, lacking of a gold medal is worse.

And also every player in his life has 3 or 4 chances to win the Olympics, it's not like "it's now or never".
Besides the surface of the courts can change depending on the host, what gives more opportunities: 2012 was grass (the perfect chance for Federer, but he didnt take it)
 
Firing Forehand said:
Of course we're speaking about greatness and prestige. That's what this is all about. We dont need to argue about points. ATP rankings are in the website. But once again, points doesnt equal prestige. Bercy+MC = WB? I dont think so.



I think both are important in any resume, but since Olympics is worth more than WTF, lacking of a gold medal is worse.

And also every player in his life has 3 or 4 chances to win the Olympics, it's not like "it's now or never".
Besides the surface of the courts can change depending on the host, what gives more opportunities: 2012 was grass (the perfect chance for Federer, but he didnt take it)
Click to expand...

Olympics gold should have many great players, nope.
Doesn't have enough history to mean much.

With many chances at the WTF and not having one is not good for the best players.

Fed has 6 WTF's BTW.
 
Ok can we set this straight, Olympics > WTF. I understand that a lot of Fed fans want WTF > Olympics, so they are biased. But come on, I'm a Djokovic fan and its obvious that Olympics > WTF no matter what I may want to think.

I'm talking in terms of importance, not in terms of difficulty. WTF is more difficult sure, but everyone knows Olympic gold is more significant. Simple fact: Having won all Grand Slams and the Olympics is called the Golden Slam. This means a player has won all the most significant tennis titles. There is no special title for winning all Grand Slams and WTF.

Fact: last year, many former pros and tennis experts were calling the Olympics the "5th slam". Nobody calls the WTF the 5th slam.

Fact: Last year, all of the Big 4 placed more importance on the Olympics than WTF. If you want me to go into detail I will, but you know that's true.

And dont even bring up the "Olympics doesnt have the same historical importance as WTF" argument. Sure, before the 90's players didnt care about Olympics but the point is now they do so now it is weighted higher than WTF. After all, there was a time when Aussie Open was considered less than the WTF but that doesnt matter; today Aussie Open is equal to the other slams. Olympics today is greater in importance to WTF.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

tennisaddict
WTF Records - A Snapshot
Replies
2
Views
648
eldanger25
E
Omega_7000
World Tour Finals vs Olympics Gold
4 5 6
Replies
285
Views
11K
msc886
M
RF-18
What does this list say?
Replies
34
Views
2K
xFedal
xFedal
T
YE #1 players without winning the prestigious WTF
Replies
19
Views
2K
TMF
T
The_Order
The TMF GOAT list
2
Replies
67
Views
4K
FlyingSaucer
FlyingSaucer
Back
Top