Where to add lead tape to apdgt?
- Thread starter kanjii
- Start date
stronzzi70
Professional
I put in my PDR 2012 leather grip + 8 grams under the grip, full poly 16 L 58 lbs...very happy until now cause I didn´t feel overpower.
kanjii
Semi-Pro
Man, you must be a beast of a man. Isn't that a heavy stick?
Hi I'm Ray
Professional
My APDGT was set up with:
2gm lead @ 12
2gm lead @ 6
4gm lead @ end of buttcap
Leather Grip + Overgrip
I added only 2gm lead @ 12 to the PDR 2012 and played with the stock grip (no overgrip). The two frames felt and played very similar (apart from the stiffness difference). The setup above should get you very close, although the 2gm @ 12 for both frames is a personal preference.
anubis
Hall of Fame
As Ray said, you have to put lead all over the place in order to maintain balance. You can't just put it in the hoop... you'll tire yourself out. You're going to have to get a yardstick and a dowel or broom stick or something... something to balance it and check out whether its HL or HH.
Whatever the racquet is currently (HH or HL), you should keep it that way. It doesn't even matter really whether its HH or HL, just find where its balance point is and take a picture of it.
Then, weight it to your hearts content both on the hoop and in the handle or throat so it maintains balance. You want it to have the same balance point as before.
Of course, you should start off slowly, just a couple of grams here and there. I don't recommend adding 20 grams immediately.
Whatever the racquet is currently (HH or HL), you should keep it that way. It doesn't even matter really whether its HH or HL, just find where its balance point is and take a picture of it.
Then, weight it to your hearts content both on the hoop and in the handle or throat so it maintains balance. You want it to have the same balance point as before.
Of course, you should start off slowly, just a couple of grams here and there. I don't recommend adding 20 grams immediately.
msweigert08
Rookie
I have heard at 12 o clock for the APD
stronzzi70
Professional
MikeHitsHard93
Hall of Fame
Why, exactly would you want to keep it the same balance? Maybe he wants to get more plowthrough and/or slow his swing down? lol.....
kanjii,
It took me a good while to settle on it (it's both a good and bad thing that the frame can be modded so easilly), but 3g @ 12 and 6g in b/cap is where I ended up. However, as specifically re more plow, I would have thought the traditional 3 and 9 locations would be the place to apply lead.
QSN for Hi I'm Ray:
In conjunction with the other mods, what does that 2g @ 6 do for you? What's the thinking here?
It took me a good while to settle on it (it's both a good and bad thing that the frame can be modded so easilly), but 3g @ 12 and 6g in b/cap is where I ended up. However, as specifically re more plow, I would have thought the traditional 3 and 9 locations would be the place to apply lead.
QSN for Hi I'm Ray:
In conjunction with the other mods, what does that 2g @ 6 do for you? What's the thinking here?
Hi I'm Ray
Professional
That was just there during an experimental phase - I was trying to see if some lead on the bridge would make the racket feel more solid but it doesn't seem to do much for that purpose. However, it was also the time when I demo'd the PDR 2012, which feels like it has a lot of its weight distributed lower in the frame (in stock its 17gm heavier than an APDGT but has 3 less SW units and is only 1pt more HL) . My APDGT felt more similar to the PDR when I had some lead at 6 vs no lead there.
BTW: Interesting, I have long been using the same formula of counter balancing any lead at 12 with 2x the amount at the buttcap - 2gm @ 12 / 4gm @ buttcap.
--------------------------
I punched in the numbers for my APDGT setup mentioned above (w/out Overgrip and personal preference of lead at 12) into the TW calculator and it came out to:
APDGT customized: 332gm, 6.5pts HL, 332.8 SW
PDR stock: 337gm, 5pts HL, 328 SW
I didn't know the actual numbers before but it seems pretty close IMO.
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Hi I'm Ray
Professional
I was trying to see how an APDGT might be customized more like a PDR 2012 for my own info and came up with this:
The PDR has a bumper with cutouts while the APDGT has a solid bumper. I read somewhere about a guy who said the bumper with the cutouts were 3gm lighter, and that they fit on an APD. Assuming that is true, and guesstimating that if the APDGT were 3gm lighter at 26.5, it would end up around 317gm, 5pts HL, 321 SW.
Punch that into the the TW calculator and it shows that PDR specs can be achieved with:
17.3gm @ 12.2in
2.7gm @ 9.8in
There might be some errors in the math, idk, it wasn't meant to be all that accurate. But anyways, it seems that fitting the APDGT with lighter grommets is necessary since it starts off with a higher SW than a PDR. I've got a set of the cutout grommets from the PDGT Lite so I might give that a try sometime.
The PDR has a bumper with cutouts while the APDGT has a solid bumper. I read somewhere about a guy who said the bumper with the cutouts were 3gm lighter, and that they fit on an APD. Assuming that is true, and guesstimating that if the APDGT were 3gm lighter at 26.5, it would end up around 317gm, 5pts HL, 321 SW.
Punch that into the the TW calculator and it shows that PDR specs can be achieved with:
17.3gm @ 12.2in
2.7gm @ 9.8in
There might be some errors in the math, idk, it wasn't meant to be all that accurate. But anyways, it seems that fitting the APDGT with lighter grommets is necessary since it starts off with a higher SW than a PDR. I've got a set of the cutout grommets from the PDGT Lite so I might give that a try sometime.
Ray, do you use this formula on ALL frames you check out/play (ie, 2 x the amount in b/cap that's @ 12)? I certainly tend to like lead @ 12 on a lot of frames but don't always x 2 that in b/cap vicinity.
It took me a long, long time of experimenting to arrive at my APD/O mods set up. TBH though, I've never found it to swing as sweetly and with that wonderful balance/weighting and primed "through the gears" speed to the ball as something like, say, the C10 Pro, or the silver/red Pro No 1 (which I'm presently still checking out), and even the 6.1s, I find super-quick in getting to the ball.
Whatever. I still consider the APD/O as just about the best tweener I've ever come across and it does so suit my game.
Which racket are you now focussed on?
Hi I'm Ray
Professional
I also tried a ton of different setup before arriving at that formula. I've been using it for a year now (other than the lead at 6 experiment) so I'm fairly settled with it.
I use that formula often when I am trying out frames in the lower 11oz range and have a balance of 0-4pts HL. Usually it gets me close to an ideal setup gives and me a good point to tweak from. For frames that already have a good amount of weight in the handle I usually just add lead to 12, or sometimes also a little at 3 & 9.
I must admit that most of the time I don't play well enough to use the Fischers effectively. But when I'm on I feel like I play my best tennis with these frames. For some reason this is the best frame I've found for hitting on the ball on the rise (at least for me) - something about the weight and balance lets me accelerate it very quickly. Give that a try if you haven't already and tell me what you think. I'm curious to see if its just me. I also really like volleys with this frame.
Right now I'm mostly satisfied with the APDGTs and spending more time looking for the ideal string set up. I've been looking at the PD/PDR 2012 and Juice 100 because these frames just seem to have more power and hit bigger serves easier than the other tweeners. I just have a much easier time holding serve with them, and now they are finally comfortable enough for me to use (PDGTs were too harsh on the arm) so I'm going to pick up one for match play. When weighted up like my APDGTs they play so similar that I could go back and forth between them, so I'll use the APDGTs for practice or just hitting around.
A bit off topic, but have you tried the Donnay Formula 100 yet? Of all the tweeners I've tried (besides the PD and Juice) the Formula 100 when weighted up like my current frame is imo the most similar to the APDGT except with much better feel and comfort. Although for me the APDGT is still a little sweeter on the topspin BH. I love hitting with players frames cuz they feel great, I use tweeners because I play better with them on a day to day basis but I don't really enjoy the feel of hitting with them. However I think this Formula 100 is the best feeling tweener I've ever used and goes a long way in bridging that gap.
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Wow, a lot of what you say chimes big time with me.
I've been prioritizing the Pro No 1 lately because the solidness, sweet swinging (I agree about how fast the frame seems to accelerate into the ball), feel and build quality is exquisite. But as I discovered earlier today in some intense heat weather-wise, it is a tad low powered for me (I could use some better results as re the serve) and demanding generally. After two games I was peeling off the lead at 12... 349g is too much for me I think, definitely in the weather we're having right now in London. I still have yet to put in my gut/poly set up, but I'll be doing that when I return from impending family holiday. I do hope I can find that added oomph, as well as a bit more comfort - no doubt strings have passed their sell by date, but it's a bit stiff and my wrist is a touch achey, which of course isn't what you'd expect from an old Fischer frame.
Anyhow, after a set of toil, I pulled the APD/O out and, predictably, fared better serve-wise, and especially from the b-line (LOL- I always fare better from the b-line with the APD compared to just about anything else.) That said, again the humid conditions seemed to conspire to maker the APD feel heavier too. And as you allude to, the hollow, rattley feel etc, just bugs me more than a bit (long running issue this for me.) I may be playing tomorrow, and am tempted to slightly tweak or go a tiny bit lower lead-wise.
I haven't tried that Donnay... I am about to check out the X Force Pro (of course meant to be like a slightly stiffer, slightly lighter Pro No 1)... but what really interests me is what you said about the Juice 100 - I'd be keen to hear some more general observations on this racket, Ray.
BTW, I so know what you mean about "bridging the gap"... I seem to be in the same boat.
Hi I'm Ray
Professional
Yeah, we seem to have similar experiences with the same rackets. Funny, I noticed you have a c10 thread, while I don't have a c10 I do have a PB10 mid in the bag.
I think that gut set up is really going to take things up a notch in the Fischer. Spin + power is really what that frame needs. I'd suggest 16g or thicker gut over 17g.
Regarding added weight, extra weight usually is easy to adapt to + plays well and I've gone through many set ups that were heavier than what I have now. But eventually I'll have those days or situations where that extra weight really shows itself as a burden for any number of reasons and I end up removing it. Thats why I've been at 2gm & 4gm for so long (plus leather grip), its feels close to a minimum of what I need, nothing extra.
I like what the APDGT does for my ground game, so I've been looking at frames that can help add something to my serve without taking anything away from the groundstrokes. There seem to be only a few tweeners that have more power than a APDGT, with one of them being the Juice 100. Its great with lead in the hoop (& not so great without it) - stiff, powerful, has great spin, and hits huge serves just like a PD/PDR but is much more dampened feeling and doesn't have the buzz/vibes of the PDs. Being such a stiff frame, it doesn't have a ton of feel but I definitely like the feel a lot better than the PD series. Volkl Cyclone was a bit stiff/harsh in my APDGT, but somehow a full bed of it felt fine in the stiffer Juice 100. I like the feel of it on volleys better than the APDGT as well. The head looks bigger than 100sq in. when compared to the APDGT/PD and it has a 16x18 pattern versus 16x19 - I'm not super sure on this yet but my impressions after two week long demo sessions, are that on some days I feel a bit less control with the Juice while the PD feels a bit tighter. I just got the PD demo in again so I'll have a better idea of this in a few days.
BTW, the Formula 100 doesn't offer me any on court performance advantages over the APDGT (since they play virtually the same for me) so for now I couldn't justify the cost to switch just for improved feel. But if I were starting over I'd pick the Formula 100 over the APDGT. I think its well worth a look and should be an easy adjustment after some customization/matching.
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B
backatcha
Guest
I put a leather grip on mine then added a total of 4gms at the 10/2 position... then later removed the 4gms. The leather grip was great for this frame!
Hi I'm Ray
Professional
@ RossK
Got a chance to hit with a customized PD 2012, a PDR 2012 I barrowed, a V-core 100s, and my APDGT, so here's the update. Despite running a few sets of numbers through the TW customization calculators (normal & reverse) & getting the PD to match my APDGT on paper, it just doesn't feel or play closely, the weight distribution felt off. I tweaked it and it still felt too different, same goes for the 100s. That leaves me with the PDR that I've already tried in the past. Its just has an awesome weight/balance set up right from the factory and swings & feels so much lighter than the numbers indicate. All I had to do was stick 2gm of lead @ 12 and there was virtually no transition adjustments needed when going back and forth with my frame. This PDR had a full bed of poly that was strung rather loose (probably in the 40's) and after 3 sets of doubles + 45min-1hr of rallying with several different ppl, my opinion is that I'm getting more control from the PDR than with the Juice 100 even with Volkl Cyclone. Perhaps its because the PDR is just so similar to own my frame.
I like the feel of the Juice and APDGT better off the ground than the PDR. The Juice and PDR both feel much better on volleys than the APDGT (IDK why but I feel disconnected on volleys with the APDGT) and both let me hit bigger serves easier.
So that's my take on it. If you've already tried the PDR but dislike the feel, try the Juice 100 with some lead.
A frame that I found really feels great despite being a bit stiff is the Slazenger Pro Braided. PD like power on serves, awesome feel and control, but a bit underpowered off the ground imo. I'll need to spend more time hitting with this one.
Got a chance to hit with a customized PD 2012, a PDR 2012 I barrowed, a V-core 100s, and my APDGT, so here's the update. Despite running a few sets of numbers through the TW customization calculators (normal & reverse) & getting the PD to match my APDGT on paper, it just doesn't feel or play closely, the weight distribution felt off. I tweaked it and it still felt too different, same goes for the 100s. That leaves me with the PDR that I've already tried in the past. Its just has an awesome weight/balance set up right from the factory and swings & feels so much lighter than the numbers indicate. All I had to do was stick 2gm of lead @ 12 and there was virtually no transition adjustments needed when going back and forth with my frame. This PDR had a full bed of poly that was strung rather loose (probably in the 40's) and after 3 sets of doubles + 45min-1hr of rallying with several different ppl, my opinion is that I'm getting more control from the PDR than with the Juice 100 even with Volkl Cyclone. Perhaps its because the PDR is just so similar to own my frame.
I like the feel of the Juice and APDGT better off the ground than the PDR. The Juice and PDR both feel much better on volleys than the APDGT (IDK why but I feel disconnected on volleys with the APDGT) and both let me hit bigger serves easier.
So that's my take on it. If you've already tried the PDR but dislike the feel, try the Juice 100 with some lead.
A frame that I found really feels great despite being a bit stiff is the Slazenger Pro Braided. PD like power on serves, awesome feel and control, but a bit underpowered off the ground imo. I'll need to spend more time hitting with this one.
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Put it anywhere you want and experiment. Look in customizing in TW. It will give you all the info. Just a few grams goes a long way. Tennis lead tape is 2 inches to 1 gram and you can buy lead tape in the golf shop which is 1 inch to one gram. Cut out some one inch strips and take the to the court with you. Place lead tape on the handle as close to the bottom as possible in 4 strip pieces then cover with a over grip. Add and subtract lead as you play and dial in the racket to what feels best to you.
Mans that's crazy! I tried a Juice 100 demo and bought two Pro Braideds which felt about the same as the Juice. I cannot get the Pro braided dialed in the way I like it so far. Might be the 95 head. I just demoed a Pure Drive GT Plus last night and liked everything about it except I could not bring in into position fast enough, a little lag for me. I have the APDGT, Juice 100. Juice Pro and Kennex Q Tour all on the way to demo. It will be interesting to see where you wind up as we seem to be searching for the same racket. Can you help me with a suggestion for a Babalot to match the PDGT Plus specs (2009) but a little more maneuverable extended length or not.
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Looking at the spec sheet between BAPDGT and BPDR (2012) those specs are almost the same except the Roddick is 17 grams heavier which might go over my weight limit as with a over grip and head tape I would be at 344 grams or 12.3 oz and my limit is around 11.7. Can you pick one over the other and why?
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Are the specs of PD and APDGT the same as on the website? If so, if you haven't already tried it, you can try to match the PD by adding 5/6 grams between 11 and 1 and wrap the replacementgrip only to half of the handle, remove the rest of the replacementgrip and then add 6/7 grams around the butt. Maybe this will help.
mrtrinh
Professional
is it always necessary to counterbalance? reason asking is I added 3 grams total to the hoop at 3&9 for more stability. Played with it and it felt great. Decided to add 5 grams to the buttcap to make it more HL and manuverable but i felt I lost a lot of power on my groundstrokes and a lot of pace on my first serve.
If you like it without counterbalancing, why bother. In your case however, if you added 3 grams total in the hoop and 5 grams in the butt, you made it more headlight than it was before. If you try about 1.5 grams in the butt, though it's not very much, it get's you closer to the original balance and check how it plays.
Hi I'm Ray
Professional
Hey Levy1,
I was going by the PD2012 specs listed by TW which are very different from the APDGT & older PDGT. Thanks for bringing the spec sheet up - the specs printed on the PD2012 & APDGT are identical. So this time I went by the printed specs, just set up the PD2012 like my APDGT and it feels much better, it still feels lighter but played fine with little adjustment in practice. I'll have to try it out in an actual game next.
Between the 2012 PD & PDR: The PDR felt more solid and dampened than the PD, even when I had all that lead on it. The PD (re-weighted) felt lighter and faster to swing on serve. Have you had the chance to use the PDR yet? I'm still surprised how light it feels for its listed weight. The PDR felt great the other day, again it felt maneuverable but there was solid weight in the right places that came through quickly and just plowed through fast/heavy shots with ease. The feel of that was addicting. It definitely feels lighter than other frames in its weight range but you'll still have to try it out with your set up to see if it feels too heavy for you. I guess the advantage of the PD is that it can be set up much lighter, but many times I've found that weighing up a frame and getting it to feel just right can be really tricky.
I'm not really sure which frame would feel like the PDGT+. I usually don't adjust well to + length frames.
The Slaz does have a firm yet vibe-free feel similar to the Juice, though I somehow feel more connect with the Slaz. I really like this frame but the ball does come off the frame differently than the tweeners. It really is more like a players frame where I'm just swinging away and getting a nice shot that easily stays in. With a tweener I feel like I have to be a lot more careful and controlled on the swing to keep the ball in. I think I could get used to the Slaz with some time to adjust. I'm not sure how your play style is like but try just swinging away and going full out on every stroke with that frame, and see how it goes with a little more time.
I've just about given up on the V-core 100s. I love the way the ball comes off this frame with such spin and kick but even after many small changes in weight distribution I can't get this frame to feel right on the swing. It also feels so hollow, light, and flimsy where there is no lead.
So far I've gone back to just following the specs printed on the frame and customizing it from there instead of customizing it based on TW's specs and calculators. I'll see how that goes in a real game.
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Hi I'm Ray
Professional
Alright, just sent you an email.
