Which big 3 player "overachieved" the most given their abilities?
- Thread starter Entername
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The_Order
G.O.A.T.
But 2015 Djokovic couldn't... Lol
Subway Tennis
G.O.A.T.
Fair. I can totally understand that viewpoint on it. I am very bullish on this new generation, but even I have to admit there is a lot of extrapolation of what I hope / think they will do, and I had many of the same expectations on Kyrgios. Back in 2014 he was saying and doing all the right things the same way these current young guys are.
BauerAlmeida
Legend
Federer is a mug who won most of his slams before Djokovic matured and Nadal was a threat outside of clay. After that he was exposed.
Djokovic is a mug who won most of his slams after turning 27 when Federer declined and Nadal had a lot of injuries. Before that he was exposed.
Nadal is a mug who won most of his slams at Roland Garros and outside that he needed weak draws and someone to take out his main rivals because he can't beat Fedovic outside of clay since January 2014.
They are all clowns who overachieved.
Djokovic is a mug who won most of his slams after turning 27 when Federer declined and Nadal had a lot of injuries. Before that he was exposed.
Nadal is a mug who won most of his slams at Roland Garros and outside that he needed weak draws and someone to take out his main rivals because he can't beat Fedovic outside of clay since January 2014.
They are all clowns who overachieved.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Sure couldn't. I'm sure that after Djokovic went 2>1 over Wawrinka at DO, he'll be fine with the beating in 2015. Lol.
Incognito
Legend
Lol, Stan would absolutely murder that Nadal in 2021.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Wawrinka's never murdered any version of Nadal on clay. 2015 Rome is the only match where he even won a set and even then he needed a tiebreak at 9-7 in the 1st set.
Incognito
Legend
2015 Stan beats 2021, 2022 and 2014 final versions of Rafa. Saying that as a Rafa supporter. 2021, no explanation needed, doesn’t have stamina after 3 sets.
2022, probably Rafa’s worst showing despite winning. 2014, Stan would play that broken-back Rafa with no serve in the final.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Wawrinka beating 2014 Nadal in the RG final in those conditions? Lol. Absolutely no chance.
Right, if anything, he’s the most underachiever.
robthai
Hall of Fame
Best comment of thread imo
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
Good to see you understand the significance of 3 > 2, 2 > 1 bud...
But nah, no chance Djok is fine with that beating in any way, shape or form.
You're basically admitting that 21 Djok > 15 Djok and we all know that isn't true. Stop embarrassing yourself for once.
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
Don't think he beats 2014 Rafa. His fh was locked in that day. 21 and 22, yeah he'd probably beat him.
The Big 3 fanbases are Islam, Judaism, Christianity
all claiming the other two are false prophets but no, they and they alone are the one true GOAT. It’s all horse crap anyway. None of these guys are good enough to be GOAT. It’s too disputed.
A true GOAT separates himself and wins 30 Slams.
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
It's inaccurate...
First of all, re Djok... it's after he turned 28... he only won 1 slam from 27 till he turned 28...
As for Nadal, he has won every off clay major going through either Federer or Djokovic in the final... no waiting for them to be taken down by anyone...
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
I thought it was 4>3, 2>1 bud?
Whether it's Djokovic RG 21 > Djokovic RG 15 or Djokovic RG 15 > Djokovic RG 21, in your opinion, who cares? Djokovic RG 21 went through the tougher draw and actually won the title. The irony of you actually telling anyone to stop embarrassing themselves.
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
I thought it was 4>3, 2>1 bud?
Whether it's Djokovic RG 21 > Djokovic RG 15 or Djokovic RG 15 > Djokovic RG 21, in your opinion, who cares? Djokovic RG 21 went through the tougher draw and actually won the title. The irony of you actually telling anyone to stop embarrassing themselves.
Yes, 4 > 3, 2 > 1.
Djokovic 21 didn't have a tougher draw because he didn't face anyone of Stan15's level... so yeah, it does matter... every body knows this... that's why you're embarrassing yourself, you're not convincing anyone mate.
Just have a look at the results of this thread lol:
Never thought I'd see a Djok fan put Stan's level down, Stan has never lost a slam final against Djok...
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
He did have the tougher draw. Sorry but beating Nadal at RG will always be the harder match, especially after he destroyed you on that same court just 8 months prior.
I didn't put his level down. I don't think he could beat Nadal at RG, at least not the 2021 version, because he hasn't shown that he can. Not sure why this is a hot topic. Disagree and move on.
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
Novak beat Nadal at RG15 too though...
Go check the thread literally no one agrees with you
btw 21 version of Nadal at RG was his second worst... 55 UEs yeah what a great version of Rafa that was... unstoppable only Earth's mightiest could do it yeah
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
And...I thought it was the worst Nadal ever according to Nadal fans so that match didn't matter?Novak beat Nadal at RG15 too though...
Go check the thread literally no one agrees with you
What thread? You mean the bait thread that @RS created because he's bored and has nothing else better to do with his time? LOL.
The main argument in here was not that Djokovic 2021 would beat 2015 Wawrinka. It was that Wawrinka 2015 wouldn't beat Nadal 2021. I have no problem with people thinking Wawrinka would beat Djokovic, because at the end of the day 2021 Djokovic wasn't the best version that ever played RG and Wawrinka did beat him in 2015. You're annoying. How about do me a favor and disappear like you did in 2021.
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
And...I thought it was the worst Nadal ever according to Nadal fans so that match didn't matter?
What thread? You mean the bait thread that @RS created because he's bored and has nothing else better to do with his time? LOL.
Oh of course, you care so much about how Nadal fans feel about a match don't you...
Yeah bait thread, but people still answer honestly... the fact that Stan 9-1 is leading the poll come on mate...
You said Djok 21 had a harder draw... but in 21 Djok didn't face anyone of Stan 15's level...
Stan 15 would have beat a Nadal hitting 55 UEs too
I'm happy I annoy you. I'll be sure to continue doing that
Rosstour
Talk Tennis Guru
People still buy it was a gluten allergy? Lolololol
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Dude you whined in the match thread when Nadal lost in 2021 about 50+ errors and you're still whining. You never gave credit for Djokovic actually winning 2021 RG, said it was handed to him, so what else would I expect from you now? So no I don't care much about what you have to say.Oh of course, you care so much about how Nadal fans feel about a match don't you...
Yeah bait thread, but people still answer honestly... the fact that Stan 9-1 is leading the poll come on mate...
You said Djok 21 had a harder draw... but in 21 Djok didn't face anyone of Stan 15's level...
Stan 15 would have beat a Nadal hitting 55 UEs too
I'm happy I annoy you. I'll be sure to continue doing that
It was the harder draw but you can believe otherwise to deter from the fact that Djokovic knocked out 13 time champ Nadal. Lol.
Yea saying Wawrinka would beat him makes you feel better about the loss to Djokovic, something you cannot stomach.
Have fun with this hypothetical viewpoint.What you need to continue is actually making some decent posts, but then to continue something you actually had to be doing it before which you have not. So go back into hiding like you did in 2021 and shut up.
ElChivoEspañol
Hall of Fame
Djokovic never had a true weapon, his BH was solid for 2-3 years and then went away.
The guy owes his success to his flexibility #1.
Add to the fact that he's the youngest of the big 3 with the least amount of miles on his body + the talent vacuum on the tour until very very recently and voila, vulture dominatur.
Edit: Imagine thinking a player that basically owned the "GOAT" since he was 17 yrs old is the least talented. The same player that is unrivaled on a surface and his domination is unheard of, the same player that's missed a combined 4 years of his career due to injuries and still holds the slam record.
Only on tt.tennis. lol
The guy owes his success to his flexibility #1.
Add to the fact that he's the youngest of the big 3 with the least amount of miles on his body + the talent vacuum on the tour until very very recently and voila, vulture dominatur.
Edit: Imagine thinking a player that basically owned the "GOAT" since he was 17 yrs old is the least talented. The same player that is unrivaled on a surface and his domination is unheard of, the same player that's missed a combined 4 years of his career due to injuries and still holds the slam record.
Only on tt.tennis. lol
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
Dude you whined in the match thread when Nadal lost in 2021 about 50+ errors and you're still whining. You never gave credit for Djokovic actually winning 2021 RG, said it was handed to him, so what else would I expect from you now? So no I don't care much about what you have to say.
It was the harder draw but you can believe otherwise to deter from the fact that Djokovic knocked out 13 time champ Nadal. Lol.
Yea saying Wawrinka would beat him makes you feel better about the loss to Djokovic, something you cannot stomach.
What you need to continue is actullay making some decent posts, but then to continue something you actually had to be doing it before which you have not. So go back into hiding like you did in 2021 and shut up.
It's not just me saying Stan15 would beat Nadal21 pal... go create a thread if you're so confident
13 time champ... what a croc, trying desperately to make it sound even more impressive... that 13 time champ was at his best at RG when he was only 3 time champ... where your boy required a concentration lapse just to make 1 set competitive....
21 was not a harder draw either, no matter how many times you want to repeat it... lol you sound like those crazy blue haired activists... keep saying it over and over and someone might believe you...
You want me to shut up? lol what are you gonna do
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
It's laughable how much this loss bothers you. It was impressive, indeed. Go read the recaps in every major sport website or publication. Lol. Maybe if you keep saying 2021 RG was handed to Djokovic, they might take his title away.It's not just me saying Stan15 would beat Nadal21 pal... go create a thread if you're so confident
13 time champ... what a croc, trying desperately to make it sound even more impressive... that 13 time champ was at his best at RG when he was only 3 time champ... where your boy required a concentration lapse just to make 1 set competitive....
21 was not a harder draw either, no matter how many times you want to repeat it... lol you sound like those crazy blue haired activists... keep saying it over and over and someone might believe you...
You want me to shut up? lol what are you gonna do
Once Nadal starts losing again, you'll shut up on your own and disappear...again.
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
It's laughable how much this loss bothers you. It was impressive, indeed. Go read the recaps in every major sport website or publication. Lol. Maybe if you keep saying 2021 RG was handed to Djokovic, they might take his title away.
I just call a spade, a spade...
I've given Djok credit many times for his 2011 season for example...
But I'm not going to give him as much credit when clearly it had more to do with his opponent than it did him...
Nadal hasn't won anything since June...
RS
Bionic Poster
Vote on the thread mate.And...I thought it was the worst Nadal ever according to Nadal fans so that match didn't matter?
What thread? You mean the bait thread that @RS created because he's bored and has nothing else better to do with his time? LOL.
abmk
Bionic Poster
Nadal 2021 was certainly his 2nd worst version (after RG 15).
RG 22 version was better overall - especially because he turned up when he needed to the most - vs Djoko in the QF and 5th set vs FAA.
He was done after 3 sets and a bit (albeit a long 3rd set) in RG 21.
Well, the curtailed RG 22 semi was worse than RG 21 semi from him, but that match ended even without going to a 2nd set TB.
and yes, Wawa of RG 15 would beat both versions of Nadal at RG
RG 22 version was better overall - especially because he turned up when he needed to the most - vs Djoko in the QF and 5th set vs FAA.
He was done after 3 sets and a bit (albeit a long 3rd set) in RG 21.
Well, the curtailed RG 22 semi was worse than RG 21 semi from him, but that match ended even without going to a 2nd set TB.
and yes, Wawa of RG 15 would beat both versions of Nadal at RG
dadadas
Semi-Pro
I would not bet on 1 hander to beat Rafa in RG.
RS
Bionic Poster
Who played at a higher level?
1. Djokovic RG 08 SF or Federer USO 15 final
2. Davydenko RG 07 SF or Nadal RG 21 SF
3. Roddick Wim 03 SF or Nalbandian USO 03 SF
4. Roddick AO 04 QF or Agassi USO 04 QF
5. Roddick Wim 04 final or Nadal RG 14 final
6. Nadal RG 06 final or Djokovic AO 12 final
7. Nadal AO 09 SF or Djokovic Wim 15 final
1. Djokovic RG 08 SF or Federer USO 15 final
2. Davydenko RG 07 SF or Nadal RG 21 SF
3. Roddick Wim 03 SF or Nalbandian USO 03 SF
4. Roddick AO 04 QF or Agassi USO 04 QF
5. Roddick Wim 04 final or Nadal RG 14 final
6. Nadal RG 06 final or Djokovic AO 12 final
7. Nadal AO 09 SF or Djokovic Wim 15 final
RS
Bionic Poster
10 matches?
RS
Bionic Poster
NoleFam doesn't rate it too far away from Stan I was just guessing that was his rating.
Not sure what it would rate tbh.
Phenomenal
Hall of Fame
As a Nadal fan i agree about NoleFam here eventhough many other things i don't. For me even 2021 Nadal beats Stan most of the time. Of course i could be wrong but i think its so difficult for Stan to play against Nadal at Paris. So matchup matters. Same Stan beats 21 Novak aswell.It's not just me saying Stan15 would beat Nadal21 pal... go create a thread if you're so confident
Despite disappointing 4th set of the 2021 RG match it was quite good. Third set was one of the best set i have watched. Despite Nadal was struggling and worse player in that 3rd set he fighted so hard and even get a set point. Was a great performance by Djokovic to go 2-1 up to last set.
Although i do think 2021 RG Djokovic was quite shaky in other matches. Musetti and Tsitsipas match specially second set of the final.
Phenomenal
Hall of Fame
About the topic how could Nadal be overachiever? Nadal won 14 slams thanks to his crazy dominance on RG. The guy didn't even pushed to the fifth set in the finals.
Just a few 5th set matches. All of them was lucky in few slams but thats it. Meaningless to discuss this anyway.
Just a few 5th set matches. All of them was lucky in few slams but thats it. Meaningless to discuss this anyway.
I'd move Agassi down to underachiever and move Rafa into proper achiever. Agassi should have ten slams. But spot on elsewhere.
I don't think any of the big three over achieved. Fed underachieved a bit. But Rafa and Novak are the two most talented tennis players I've ever seen. So they're right where they should be.
GabeT
G.O.A.T.
Agree. Is the argument that Nadal (or any of the others) won something they “shouldn’t have”? Who determines that? You can only play the guy in front of you.
Phenomenal
Hall of Fame
Yeah its so subjective first of all to determine that.
Nadal - GOAT
Hall of Fame
To me Nadal is the biggest over achiever of the big 3. He had just 1 slam of the 4 where his game made him the favorite but is still the slam leader as of now. He has been very clinical and has made the most of any lucky breaks he got over the years.
Both Fed and Novak have been more wasteful of their opportunities in comparison to Rafa. Novak has lost 5 slam finals to non big 3 players + a SF to Nishikori. 2019 Wimb and 2011 USO losses after having match points will always haunt Fed. Infact even his loss to Safin in 2005 AO and Del potro in USO 2009 were matches he should have won.
Rafa also has had a few misses but overall he has made the most of his skills of the big 3. 6 HC + 2 grass slams are a lot for a player with his serve and style of play.
DSH
Bionic Poster
Nadal - GOAT
Hall of Fame
I agree Rafa's dominance at RG is well deserved and can't be considered an over achievement.
Though his 4 USO titles could be by some. IMO his lack of strong serve and physical style of game limited his slam potential in HC and grass. The fact that he has 8 non clay slams is phenomenal and an overachievement in some ways.
I look at overachievement as playing at full potential and beyond. This is a positive and synonymous with Rafa. 3 HC+Grass slams against 1 clay slam should have made it easy for Fed and Novak to be ahead of Rafa in slam race.
DSH
Bionic Poster
Incognito
Legend
GabeT
G.O.A.T.
as I Novak fan I tend to think that Nadal would have had a harder time at AO22 if Djokovic had gotten vaxxed, but so what? Novak made a decision and Nadal beat the guy in front of him. We can always imagine an alternative scenario where a player that wins a tournament would have lost if they had just faced someone else. Ok, maybe not with Nadal at RG
there is no overachieving
H
Herald
Guest
I challenge anyone to look at Federer's 2003-5 rally ball TOPSPIN backhand and tell me the man didn't defy some serious odds to hang around at the top long enough to continue improving and become third best of his time
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