Which Clay Masters 1000 is best for Federer to play??

Which Clay Masters 1000 should Federer play if he decides to play one??

  • Total voters
    47
  • Poll closed .
ak24alive

ak24alive

Legend
Let's say Roger decides to play a clay Masters 1000 and Roland Garros in 2018.
Considering the light schedule he wants and the court conditions and other factors such as his history at the tournaments which clay Masters1000 tournaments should he play??
 
Monte Carlo - because it's first and he never won it. He'll be the freshest there(if he skips Miami), best chance to win.
 
smoledman said:
Monte Carlo - because it's first and he never won it. He'll be the freshest there(if he skips Miami), best chance to win.
Click to expand...
Why skip Miami?? The Rotterdam wildcard is a testament to the fact that if not for the injuries Miami is on the list. Plus there are points to defended.
Don't you think MC is a little too slow for Rog??
 
I’d love to see him win Rome or Monte Carlo (only masters he’s never won) but Madrid is probably the best option for him if he does play clay.
 
Monte Carlo or Rome, the only ones he has never won out of all the Masters events (4 losing finals at each). Boxes still to tick.
 
I think he should attend Monte Carlo as a spectator.

Ideal place to do marketing for his high-end sponsors
 
Feather said:
Roger has a lot more chances on the slowest hard court than the fastest clay court, if there is one!

Skip entire clay season, and play Miami. I would be disappointed if Roger skips Miami for clay. I don't think Roger will play on any clay tournaments
Click to expand...

Now that he'll likely be no.1 I don't think there is any skipping Miami. It's on the cards. He'll try his best to defend the Sunshine Double.
But let's say he feels fresh after the double he might have a go at the clay. It is possible but I think he will decide only after MC as he will be watching Nadal like he did last year.
Roger is now playing mostly for titles and somewhat for points. So there's no point in playing a tournament if he feels he can't win it.
If Nadal is in supreme form Rog stays away. If Nadal falters in MC and Barcelona Rog might play Madrid. And then depending on how fresh he feels maybe RG.
 
Personally I’m all for skipping Miami in favour of Madrid or RG. I think Fed 2.0 PP might actually do quite well on slow/high bounce courts as it’ll allow even earlier timing to create angles and patterns which thwart modern topspin players.

In case people haven’t noticed, Fed 2.0 is now vulnerable to big/flat hitters, not heavy spin type because he’s redirecting off the bounce very early.

Drop shots and touch volleys? Clay is the best surface for that.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hydrocella said:
Personally I’m all for skipping Miami in favour of Madrid or MC. I think Fed 2.0 PP might actually do quite well on slow/high bounce courts as it’ll allow even earlier timing to create angles and patterns which thwart modern topspin players.

In case people haven’t noticed, Fed 2.0 is now vulnerable to big/flat hitters, not heavy spin type because he’s redirecting off the bounce very early.

Drop shots and touch volleys? Clay is the best surface for that.
Click to expand...
I tend to agree in that I think Roger handles a higher ball better with respect to a lower one than he traditionally used to. Part of that is his more recent tendency to flatten out when provided it. All last year he started hitting lasers as soon as he played Nadal; it's like he sees a higher ball as even more of an opportunity to attack than usual. Still wrecks with lower bounce as well of course, because spin, slice, etc.

I still think Fedr would be much more effective on a bouncy hard than clay at this stage though, especially given his absurdly aggressive favoured court position of late. His positioning was so aggressive in that AO final he was having to hit balls from behind him ffs.
 
ak24alive said:
Now that he'll likely be no.1 I don't think there is any skipping Miami. It's on the cards. He'll try his best to defend the Sunshine Double.
But let's say he feels fresh after the double he might have a go at the clay. It is possible but I think he will decide only after MC as he will be watching Nadal like he did last year.
Roger is now playing mostly for titles and somewhat for points. So there's no point in playing a tournament if he feels he can't win it.
If Nadal is in supreme form Rog stays away. If Nadal falters in MC and Barcelona Rog might play Madrid. And then depending on how fresh he feels maybe RG.
Click to expand...

You guys are still living in 2011! It was the last year when Roger was second best at French Open.

It's not about Rafa now. There are lots of players who can take out Roger on clay. Roger will not play clay. Grinding on clay is not suitable for him at this age
 
Feather said:
You guys are still living in 2011! It was the last year when Roger was second best at French Open.

It's not about Rafa now. There are lots of players who can take out Roger on clay. Roger will not play clay. Grinding on clay is not suitable for him at this age
Click to expand...
Blitzkrieg or bust. If he plays clay, he should try and play on it like a hard court. If that means his aggressive positioning gets exploited and he can't quite read the bounce well enough to control the point, so be it.
 
I say Rome!

1) He could take a long rest before, skipping Miami or not.
2) Rome is a good preparation for RG, because it is just 2 weeks earlier and has a much more similar surface to RG than Madrid.
3) He would go for a title he hasn't won before (Monte Carlo is excluded because of reasons 1 and 2).
 
Feather said:
You guys are still living in 2011! It was the last year when Roger was second best at French Open.

It's not about Rafa now. There are lots of players who can take out Roger on clay. Roger will not play clay. Grinding on clay is not suitable for him at this age
Click to expand...
I don't know about that. I guess we will have to wait for him to play to find out. Or maybe we will never know.
Personally I think he can take the rest of the field out in Madrid except obviously Rafa. But who knows maybe he can even give Rafa a run for his money. You never know.
 
RG? French was always considered a glorified masters. It's only the press because of Nadal invented that the FO is now the big deal, to artificially create an argument against Fed to make controversy and make money. And some fans bought it, it's so sad.

They are trying to do that with Olympics to make Murray relevant, and it's failing miserably.
 
kalyan4fedever said:
I think Rome plays close to RG, so I would prefer rome
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I feel the same way but the problem with Rome is it's just before RG and maybe if Fed goes deep in Rome the wear and tear will be a problem in RG.
This is why I prefer him in Madrid. Also Madrid has courts more supportive of Fed's play.
I would love to see him win MC or Rome but they are just not feasible for Fed, the former because of slow court speed and Nadal's god level at MC and Rome because of the reason I stated above.
 
TearTheRoofOff said:
I tend to agree in that I think Roger handles a higher ball better with respect to a lower one than he traditionally used to. Part of that is his more recent tendency to flatten out when provided it. All last year he started hitting lasers as soon as he played Nadal; it's like he sees a higher ball as even more of an opportunity to attack than usual. Still wrecks with lower bounce as well of course, because spin, slice, etc.

I still think Fedr would be much more effective on a bouncy hard than clay at this stage though, especially given his absurdly aggressive favoured court position of late. His positioning was so aggressive in that AO final he was having to hit balls from behind him ffs.
Click to expand...

Yep, when you look at the trend the last decade he’s been better on slow-hard and not fast-hard. I believe the work put in the last few years to take it early and well inside the baseline might actually translate quite nicely on clay. It would be an interesting experiment, enough of a worthwhile one, for me, to see how it works on clay.

Given his calendar and points available it wouldn’t actually be half bad if he entered a few tourneys where he’s got nothing to defend. Even if it’s an early loss or so, there are quite a few relatively easy points available for him to grab on clay.

He can’t outhit opponents, that’s clear enough. What he can do is redirect and play angles/patterns and disrupt like never before. You’re seeing the modern baseliners struggle with this.

The one area that will/might not translate on the clay may be serve. If he can continue to push it out wide to open up the court on clay remains to be seen. High bounce works for him in return games but against him in service ones.

Either way, I’m curious to see how PP Fed 2.0 does on clay.

TearTheRoofOff said:
Blitzkrieg or bust. If he plays clay, he should try and play on it like a hard court. If that means his aggressive positioning gets exploited and he can't quite read the bounce well enough to control the point, so be it.
Click to expand...

Could not have said it better myself. I’m with clay if - and only if - he continues the Blitzkreig. If he can’t find a way to the net/shorten rallies clay, or any surface for that matter, isn’t workable.
 
smoledman said:
Monte Carlo - because it's first and he never won it. He'll be the freshest there(if he skips Miami), best chance to win.
Click to expand...

He's also never won Rome.


Monte Carlo conditions are closer to RG but it's also over a month away. Rome would be a good tuneup.
 
ChrisRF said:
I say Rome!

1) He could take a long rest before, skipping Miami or not.
2) Rome is a good preparation for RG, because it is just 2 weeks earlier and has a much more similar surface to RG than Madrid.
3) He would go for a title he hasn't won before (Monte Carlo is excluded because of reasons 1 and 2).
Click to expand...
I think you have a good point but..
Look at it this way:-
Rome
A week off
RG
A week off
Halle
A week off
Wimbledon

Now this I think somehow lessens his chances at Wimby.
Another option is to skip Halle but that would mean going into Wimby without match practice on grass.
But if he plays Madrid then there will be less back to back tournaments.
Still your point is good I feel.
 
If he does play a M1000 on clay, it will be Rome, it's the best prep for RG.

But if he's playing clay, I think he would play only RG.

And if fact, I believe he won't play clay anyway.
 
Hydrocella said:
Yep, when you look at the trend the last decade he’s been better on slow-hard and not fast-hard. I believe the work put in the last few years to take it early and well inside the baseline might actually translate quite nicely on clay. It would be an interesting experiment, enough of a worthwhile one, for me, to see how it works on clay.

Given his calendar and points available it wouldn’t actually be half bad if he entered a few tourneys where he’s got nothing to defend. Even if it’s an early loss or so, there are quite a few relatively easy points available for him to grab on clay.

He can’t outhit opponents, that’s clear enough. What he can do is redirect and play angles/patterns and disrupt like never before. You’re seeing the modern baseliners struggle with this.

The one area that will/might not translate on the clay may be serve. If he can continue to push it out wide to open up the court on clay remains to be seen. High bounce works for him in return games but against him in service ones.

Either way, I’m curious to see how PP Fed 2.0 does on clay.



Could not have said it better myself. I’m with clay if - and only if - he continues the Blitzkreig. If he can’t find a way to the net/shorten rallies clay, or any surface for that matter, isn’t workable.
Click to expand...
That makes a lot of sense only if he gives himself the chance to be fresh. This clay experiment can be successful if he is fresh and also its success depends on the fact that it should not jeopardize his chances in Wimby.
 
Hydrocella said:
Yep, when you look at the trend the last decade he’s been better on slow-hard and not fast-hard. I believe the work put in the last few years to take it early and well inside the baseline might actually translate quite nicely on clay. It would be an interesting experiment, enough of a worthwhile one, for me, to see how it works on clay.

Given his calendar and points available it wouldn’t actually be half bad if he entered a few tourneys where he’s got nothing to defend. Even if it’s an early loss or so, there are quite a few relatively easy points available for him to grab on clay.

He can’t outhit opponents, that’s clear enough. What he can do is redirect and play angles/patterns and disrupt like never before. You’re seeing the modern baseliners struggle with this.

The one area that will/might not translate on the clay may be serve. If he can continue to push it out wide to open up the court on clay remains to be seen. High bounce works for him in return games but against him in service ones.

Either way, I’m curious to see how PP Fed 2.0 does on clay.



Could not have said it better myself. I’m with clay if - and only if - he continues the Blitzkreig. If he can’t find a way to the net/shorten rallies clay, or any surface for that matter, isn’t workable.
Click to expand...

He was shortening points on clay at Monte Carlo 2016. Small sample size but I think even with him being 70% and injured he played very well in his 3 matches against Garcia-Lopez,Agut, and Tsonga.

He can do it.
 
ak24alive said:
That makes a lot of sense only if he gives himself the chance to be fresh. This clay experiment can be successful if he is fresh and also its success depends on the fact that it should not jeopardize his chances in Wimby.
Click to expand...

Yip. I’m suggesting a potential swap with Miami for Madrid or RG. Would prefer RG of course but that venue has not been kind to RF.
 
Hydrocella said:
Personally I’m all for skipping Miami in favour of Madrid or MC. I think Fed 2.0 PP might actually do quite well on slow/high bounce courts as it’ll allow even earlier timing to create angles and patterns which thwart modern topspin players.
In case people haven’t noticed, Fed 2.0 is now vulnerable to big/flat hitters, not heavy spin type because he’s redirecting off the bounce very early.
Drop shots and touch volleys? Clay is the best surface for that.
Click to expand...

Roger Federer is the number one favorite for the title at Miami. Plus he gets a days rest between matches which is very important for him at this stage. And you want to skip that and play Madrid or MC where there are many guys who can take him out?

I do agree with the last line. Clay brings out the artist in him. After grass, clay is the surface that brings out his artistry best but his playing style and age doesn't support grinding on clay, sad but true :(
 
ak24alive said:
I think you have a good point but..
Look at it this way:-
Rome
A week off
RG
A week off
Halle
A week off
Wimbledon

Now this I think somehow lessens his chances at Wimby.
Another option is to skip Halle but that would mean going into Wimby without match practice on grass.
But if he plays Madrid then there will be less back to back tournaments.
Still your point is good I feel.
Click to expand...
In Halle his matches traditionally last around an hour, so I don’t see a big problem here. Still he could skip it (he doesn’t need much match praxis on grass where his game comes so naturally), but it isn’t a must. At least there is a free week every time, which isn’t too bad.

By the way, in some ways a Slam is more easy to him than a one-week event, because playing best of 5 every second day is better for the body than having a best of 3 match 4 consecutive days at the end of a tournament. When he dominates, a best of 5 match lasts half an hour longer or so, and then he has the decisive rest. If it is close, then a 5-setter and a day off is still better than 6 sets in two days.

Anyway, I’m optimistic with Federer now. Talking about stamina, the only match he visibly and exclusively lost due to fatigue IMO was the Olympic final in 2012 after the Del Potro SF.
 
Feather said:
Roger Federer is the number one favorite for the title at Miami. Plus he gets a days rest between matches which is very important for him at this stage. And you want to skip that and play Madrid or MC where there are many guys who can take him out?

I do agree with the last line. Clay brings out the artist in him. After grass, clay is the surface that brings out his artistry best but his playing style and age doesn't support grinding on clay, sad but true :(
Click to expand...

I feel another sunshine double might be a bit too taxing at the point. IW and Miami are right beside each other. Miami is also not the easiest court, it’s slow as hell.

If you read the posts above none of us is suggesting grinding on clay. There’s this silly notion Fed 2.0 playbook might actually translate quite nicely to a high/vertical bounce surface.
 
ChrisRF said:
In Halle his matches traditionally last around an hour, so I don’t see a big problem here. Still he could skip it (he doesn’t need much match praxis on grass where his game comes so naturally), but it isn’t a must. At least there is a free week every time, which isn’t too bad.

By the way, in some ways a Slam is more easy to him than a one-week event, because playing best of 5 every second day is better for the body than having a best of 3 match 4 consecutive days at the end of a tournament. When he dominates, a best of 5 match lasts half an hour longer or so, and then he has the decisive rest. If it is close, then a 5-setter and a day off is still better than 6 sets in two days.

Anyway, I’m optimistic with Federer now. Talking about stamina, the only match he visibly and exclusively lost due to fatigue IMO was the Olympic final in 2012 after the Del Potro SF.
Click to expand...
My point being these best of 3/5 clay matches last much longer than those on hard courts by default plus the fact that opponents on clay won't let Rog run away with it as fast as he does on HCs. He plays Rome and goes deep lets say. Come Roland Garros, he is dare I say tired(or maybe not that fresh). He still gives his best and goes QF or Semis deep.
He comes to grass tired. I don't this as an ideal scenario. Who knows how quickly he recovers. But why take that risk?? Its already a risk playing clay. The guy doesn't need more. I still stick with Madrid.
At the time I posted I wasn't sure but now I strictly think Madrid's the best option.
 
ak24alive said:
But Miami and Madrid/RG has 40/60 days in between them and given that he has 1000 points in Miami don't you think Miami won't be an issue for his recovery before Madrid/RG??
Click to expand...

It’s actually IW and Miami I’m thinking about. They’re the ones too close to each other.
 
Hydrocella said:
It’s actually IW and Miami I’m thinking about. They’re the ones too close to each other.
Click to expand...
Oh I see!!! So you suggesting he might hurt himself in IW. That's a nice point.
I agree with you on that. But this decision will be a relatively easy one for Fed. Why??
Because if he feels fresh after IW he will play Miami and if not he won't risk it.
Also the way I see it he already took care of it by playing Rotterdam instead of Dubai.
He comes fresh in IW and that's how he likes it.
Miami is on the cards.
 
Think he should only play if he loses early in IW or Miami.
The faster Madrid suits his style best, but with Nadal (assuming he plays all clay) all tired out by Rome, very good chance for Fed to sneak a win there.
 
ak24alive said:
Oh I see!!! So you suggesting he might hurt himself in IW. That's a nice point.
I agree with you on that. But this decision will be a relatively easy one for Fed. Why??
Because if he feels fresh after IW he will play Miami and if not he won't risk it.
Also the way I see it he already took care of it by playing Rotterdam instead of Dubai.
He comes fresh in IW and that's how he likes it.
Miami is on the cards.
Click to expand...

I have a fleeting suspicion that he might even play Dubai. My best guess is moving forward Federer will look at ranking/points when it comes to tourneys and wins when it comes to the Slams. Or maybe I’m projecting my own thoughts here. He really doesn’t need any more masters or 500 series trophies, where they come in is points and keeping match practiced.

If he can play 50-75% at the minor tournaments to prepare himself for 100% in the big ones that’s probably one way to manage the next 2-3 years.

It’s true, everything comes down to the GS’s. The question is how badly does he want RG too?

To go for RG he might have to cut back on some of the 1000 and 500 tournaments - not necessarily participation but going the distance. They’re just for points.
 
Hydrocella said:
I have a fleeting suspicion that he might even play Dubai. My best guess is moving forward Federer will look at ranking/points when it comes to tourneys and wins when it comes to the Slams. Or maybe I’m projecting my own thoughts here. He really doesn’t need any more masters or 500 series trophies, where they come in is points and keeping match practiced.

If he can play 50-75% at the minor tournaments to prepare himself for 100% in the big ones that’s probably one way to manage the next 2-3 years.

It’s true, everything comes down to the GS’s. The question is how badly does he want RG too?

To go for RG he might have to cut back on some of the 1000 and 500 tournaments - not necessarily participation but going the distance. They’re just for points.
Click to expand...
I hope he stays away from Dubai more than I hope he plays clay. I feel like defending the sunshine double is very important. Lots of points.
Also someone above made a fair point that he should only play clay if he loses a lot of points in the double. I think that it would be intelligent to do so.
 
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