which exercises NOT to do for shoulders

ramesh

Rookie
Two days ago after my usual workout (serving), i got this shoulder pain which disallows me from raising the arm. To give you an idea, i am unable to raise my arm with a thumbs down (as suggested in a rotator cuff thread)

After a day of unsuccessful warming, i tried icing and it gave temp relief. today evening i did some light hitting, mainly forehand, some backhand and it feels better.

I am unable to pinpoint what stretch or exercise might have caused this - it's on the front part of the shoulder. I hardly do any stretching but that day post-workout i did cycle my arm round, forwards and backwards. I also regularly do light dumbell work for shoulders: standing lateral raises, front raise, shoulder press.

I need to avoid getting this in the future, Are there any known stretches or light dumbell exercises one should AVOID ?

thanks. (p.s. i am going through the other threads on shoulder and rotator cuff)
 
Two days ago after my usual workout (serving), i got this shoulder pain which disallows me from raising the arm. To give you an idea, i am unable to raise my arm with a thumbs down (as suggested in a rotator cuff thread)

After a day of unsuccessful warming, i tried icing and it gave temp relief. today evening i did some light hitting, mainly forehand, some backhand and it feels better.

I am unable to pinpoint what stretch or exercise might have caused this - it's on the front part of the shoulder. I hardly do any stretching but that day post-workout i did cycle my arm round, forwards and backwards. I also regularly do light dumbell work for shoulders: standing lateral raises, front raise, shoulder press.

I need to avoid getting this in the future, Are there any known stretches or light dumbell exercises one should AVOID ?

thanks. (p.s. i am going through the other threads on shoulder and rotator cuff)
I'm sure there are a few, but three that I specifically recall from the "7 Minute Rotator Cuff Solution" were:

1. Upright rows.
2. Dumbell lateral raises where you end the movement with your thumbs down (as if pouring out a container of liquid). Note: doing DB lat raises WITHOUT this end movement is okay.
3. Lat cable pulldowns BEHIND the neck (you should bring the bar down to your chest, not behind your neck).

All of these movements put extreme strain on the shoulder joint and the rotator cuff, and are not "natural" movements.
 
2. Dumbell lateral raises where you end the movement with your thumbs down (as if pouring out a container of liquid).

All of these movements put extreme strain on the shoulder joint and the rotator cuff, and are not "natural" movements.

strangely, that seems to be what the rotator cuff thread suggested to do.

thanks for your inputs.
 
strangely, that seems to be what the rotator cuff thread suggested to do.

thanks for your inputs.
Not strange at all. On an Internet forum, you're not always going to get advice that is 100% correct, though there are some very knowledgeable people who post in the H&F board. However, personally, I would go with the book on this one.
 
strangely, that seems to be what the rotator cuff thread suggested to do.....
I re-read the thread and don't see where it did that. And, in case you didn't know that, there can be a BIG difference doing any exercise with or without weights, particularly where the shoulders are concerned.
 
Thanks, Phil for your inputs. There are two more exercises I want to check on:

1. Standing dumbell (shoulder) raises. These are overhead raises. I also twist as i go up, starting with palm facing body and ending with palm facing forwards

2. The other is an overhead dumbell tricep raise - behind the head, elbow up, weight behind neck.

I ask since these 2 are overhead exercises.

Update: today morning had a light hitting session and was fine, both wings. No serves yet, although I did try the serve motion during warmup and that was fine.

Valjean, I will check that link again. Yes, Phil says don't do with dumbells, whereas the link talked without weights (iirc).
 
Ramesh,
Please visit a doctor before you make things worse, or injure yourself. Attempting different exercises ot stretches are not going to help right now because from what you have written, it sounds like you are injured.

This is my own anecdotal experience, but I have had discomfort in my shoulder on occasion but never to the point that my movement was restricted.

The fact that your movement IS restricted suggests evidence for an injury, which you might make worse by trying out a bunch of stretches/exercises. If I was suddenly unable to move my knee in a certain direction I would be really worried...

i hope this is temporary, and that you can get back to playing.
 
Ramesh, when you initially have pain you should always use ice the first 48 hours and take anti-inflamatory meds like advil. If you didn't really change your routine regarding exercises or the amount of hitting, that area was probably tight due to lack of stretching and susceptible to injury. Imporant to warm-up body and do stretches before you play or you will eventually get injured.
 
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sounds like a shoulder impingement. i'm going through it right now. only discomfort comes from over head motions and after a few days of rest it feels normal, until i serve again.

i've now been going to a physio therapist for a few weeks and working on a number of exercises and stretches. i thnk this type of injury will take quite some time to heal. but as mentioned above, visit a doctor or physio.
 
Thanks a lot for the advice, playing actually warmed up and improved the area. Since yesterday it's been fine - no pain.

Will do some serves on Monday or Tuesday and see, but a few only and slowly increase).

There is no pain in overhead movement, including doing the serve motion.

I actually don't do any stretching for shoulders (only do wrist and forearm stretches). During warmup , I do the serve motion quite a few times to loosen up the shoulder.


I shall probably start the shoulder stretch: clasping hands behind back this week, gently.

Thanks for the help.
 
Stick with the shoulder presses and bench presses and dumbbell fly's and get rid of the other exercises.

Actually, all three of these exercises could place additional and unwanted stress on the rotator cuff. I have struggled with shoulder impingement syndrome for a number of years, so have some personal experience in this field.

All overhead movement should be limited when a rotator cuff or impingement injury is sustained - this of course includes shoulder presses.

Bench press (with a barbel) also places additional stresses on the region and should be avoided. Once any acute pain or inflammation has subsided, try substituted the barbel with some dumbbells.

Dumbbell flyes / pec deck are also inadvisable, as they place the shoulder in an already impinged position, exacerbating opportunity for inflammation.

If anyone has greater knowledge on the subject than I, please feel free to correct me. The above is what I have learnt from a number of musculoskeletal physiotherapists and some light reading.
 
yes, pr. the 3 you mention have been contraindicated by others on this forum too.

I will avoid all overhead presses, raises, as well as twisting motions with dumbells.
 
Two days ago after my usual workout (serving), i got this shoulder pain which disallows me from raising the arm. To give you an idea, i am unable to raise my arm with a thumbs down (as suggested in a rotator cuff thread)

After a day of unsuccessful warming, i tried icing and it gave temp relief. today evening i did some light hitting, mainly forehand, some backhand and it feels better.

I am unable to pinpoint what stretch or exercise might have caused this - it's on the front part of the shoulder. I hardly do any stretching but that day post-workout i did cycle my arm round, forwards and backwards. I also regularly do light dumbell work for shoulders: standing lateral raises, front raise, shoulder press.

I need to avoid getting this in the future, Are there any known stretches or light dumbell exercises one should AVOID ?

thanks. (p.s. i am going through the other threads on shoulder and rotator cuff)

Exercises to avoid :

1. AVOID what hurts.

2. Bench press with barbell. Do bench press with dumbells with neutral grips (palms face each other).

3. Overhead press with barbell. If you insist on doing overhead press, do with dumbells with neutral grips.

4. And I agree with Phil's post about the lateral raises, upright rows and behind the neck pulldown.

If you're going to be doing lateral raises, one great way to ensure long-term shoulder health is to position the upper arm in the same plane as the scapula. If you do the exercise directly out to the sides, your arms are in the frontal plane, and the humerus is actually extended, placing the humeral head anterior to the acromion process of the scapula.

This position greatly increases the likelihood of the humeral head pinching the tendons of your rotator cuff underneath the acromion process as you raise your arms. A simple solution is to just move your arms forward about 30° so that it's in the scapular plane.

If you want to make it extra safe, you can do the exercise with your thumbs up; this repositioning will externally rotate your humerus, giving the humeral head and rotator cuff a little more room to breath under that acromion process.

Oh, btw, here's my post at other thread :

Many of you are going to hate me for what I’m about to say. I don’t let my overhead throwing clients (tennis players are in this category) overhead press or bench press with a straight bar.

There. I said it. Call me all the names you’d like but ask yourself this:

“Am I cursing Ano’s name because I think that the cost-to-benefit ratio of overhead pressing and straight bar bench pressing justifies their use, or is it because I feel naked without these options? I have to bench press. I can’t start an upper body day with any other exercise.”

As a fitness trainer/consultant/writer, lifting is a means to achieve an end, not an end in itself.

Athletes lift weights to prevent and rehabilitate injuries and indirectly enhance performance through neural, muscular endocrine and biomechanical factors.

If an athlete is injured, he/she cannot perform—period. This sentence alone should convince you that the cost-to-benefit ratio of any training intervention should be as low as possible. My number one job is to not hurt a client in training.

With respect to the glenohumeral joint—one of several articulations comprising the shoulder girdle—there are five different characteristics of any exercise that I take into account.

1. Traction versus approximation: Pull-ups and pull-downs (like most cable exercises) are an example of traction exercises. They pull the head of the humerus away from the glenoid fossa (shoulder socket).

Conversely, pressing exercises are approximation exercises. They drive the humeral head into that socket. Approximation exercises increase the likelihood of rotator cuff impingement far more than traction, and this is why exercises like pull-downs, pull-ups, and shrugs can be integrated into rehabilitation programs before various presses.

It also explains why many people with external impingement respond well to traction work with bands. They’re basically giving the rotator cuff tendons room to breath.

2. Adduction/extension versus abduction/flexion: Does the movement have the arm further away from the body (elevated) or close to the side? We know that an elbows-tucked (more adducted) bench press is much safer for the shoulders than an elbows out (abducted) style of bench pressing. The same can be said for overhead pressing (scapular plane versus frontal plane).

3. Closed-chain versus open-chain: Movements where the distal segment is fixed and the proximal segment is moving (closed-chain; e.g. push-ups) will always be safer for the shoulder than movements where we are stable proximally and moving distally (open-chain; e.g. Bench Press).

For this reason, you’ll always be able to integrate push-up variations in a shoulder rehabilitation program before you move to barbell and dumbbell pressing variations.

4. Dumbbells versus barbells: We know that external rotation of the humerus repositions the humeral head and gives the rotator cuff tendons more room to “breath” without impingement as we elevate our arms.

We also know that external rotation of the humerus ties in closely with forearm supination—just as internal rotation is associated with pronation.

A barbell fixes us in a pronated position so we’re locked into more of an internally rotated position. Dumbbells allow us to supinate a bit more. In turn, we are able to get more external rotation during the pressing motion, therefore protecting the rotator cuff a bit more than with barbells.

5. Isometric versus ballistic (and everything in between): It should come as no surprise that low velocity movements pose less injury risk than those performed ballistically. We don’t play sports at a snail’s pace, though, so it’s important that we prepare our clients for the dynamic nature of their sports. However, we still need to recognize that isometric and lower velocity movements have merit in certain instances, especially if we’re looking to deload the athlete.
 
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Man shoulders are a sensitive thing. At least for me. I tried to strengthen my shoulder and got a laberal tear which is very serious.
 
I don't use barbells for any upper body exercise anymore. Not only are dumbbells better for the shoulder, as they allow rotational freedom, but they train smarter more independent muscles.
 
I don't use barbells for any upper body exercise anymore. Not only are dumbbells better for the shoulder, as they allow rotational freedom, but they train smarter more independent muscles.

Wow, well said. One more thing that we agree. :)
 
Other NOT to do exercises :

Bench dips.
This movement targets the triceps. I see this exercise being done almost on a daily basis. Unfortunately, performing this movement maximally internally rotates the humerus, which drastically decreases the subacromial space which can lead to impingement syndrome. (Translation: You'll get an ouchie.) Not a good scenario, especially for those prone to shoulder injuries.

Incline dumbell curls
The proximal tendon of the long head of the biceps is one of the most commonly injured structures of the shoulder joint. It's highly susceptible to overuse and even rupture if the degeneration is allowed to proceed. Given the long head of the biceps' interaction with the highly important glenoid labrum, you want to be very careful to avoid irritating this tendon.

When you take your elbow and shoulder into full extension simultaneously, you lengthen the long head of the biceps. Now, put yourself in the incline curl position, and you turn that shoulder extension into hyperextension. Tendons with a history of trauma don't typically like to be taken to extremes, especially under load. Again, not a good scenario for those prone to shoulder injuries.
 
Other NOT to do exercises :

Bench dips.
This movement targets the triceps.

By this you mean the one in which we keep our palms on edge of bed, body facing up, and keep lowering ourselves.
Haven't done that of late, but that used to be a fav triceps exercise of mine.
Thanks a lot, Ano.

Someone below talked of getting injured because of doing weights for strengthening shoulders.
I hope this is not a silly question, but if i do no strengthening of the shoulders at all, just do serves (when the cuff has healed), will that prevent this problem.
The reason for this question is that on one thread it was suggested that weight training can result in an imbalance of muscles leading the rotator cuff problems.

If I only do forearm/wrist strengthening, no shoulders, will that keep my shoulders injury free. I assume the serving will strengthen the shoulder as required.
 
By this you mean the one in which we keep our palms on edge of bed, body facing up, and keep lowering ourselves.
Haven't done that of late, but that used to be a fav triceps exercise of mine.
Thanks a lot, Ano.

Yes. You are welcome

Someone below talked of getting injured because of doing weights for strengthening shoulders.
I hope this is not a silly question, but if i do no strengthening of the shoulders at all, just do serves (when the cuff has healed), will that prevent this problem.

No.

The reason for this question is that on one thread it was suggested that weight training can result in an imbalance of muscles leading the rotator cuff problems.

If I only do forearm/wrist strengthening, no shoulders, will that keep my shoulders injury free. I assume the serving will strengthen the shoulder as required.

weight training done properly will not create an imbalance. You could get an imbalance muscles if you do pressing movement without pulling movement. If you do bench press, you should do rowing/pulling movement for the antagonistic muscles.

You should do Exercises for your rotator cuff, scapular stabilizers and back.

It's important to note, however, that even if your rotator cuff is completely healthy and functioning optimally, you may experience scapular dyskinesis, shoulder, upper back, and neck problems because of inadequate strength and poor tonus of the muscles that stabilize the scapula.

After all, how can the rotator cuff be effective at stabilizing the humeral head when its foundation (the scapula) isn't stable itself? Therefore, if you're looking to eliminate weak links at the shoulder girdle, your best bet is to perform both rotator cuff and scapular stabilizer specific work.

In my experience, the ideal means of ensuring long-term rotator cuff health is to incorporate two external rotation movements per week to strengthen the infraspinatus and teres minor (and the posterior deltoid, another external rotator that isn't a part of the rotator cuff).

On one movement, the humerus should be abducted (e.g. elbow supported DB external rotations and on the other, the humerus should be adducted (e.g. low pulley external rotations, side-lying external rotations).

Granted, these movements are quite basic, but they'll do the job if injury prevention is all you seek..

For the scapular stabilizers, most individuals fall into the classic anteriorly tilted, winged scapulae posture (hunchback); this is commonly seen with the rounded shoulders that result from having tight internal rotators and weak external rotators.

To correct the hunchback look, you need to do extra work for the scapular retractors and depressors; good choices include horizontal pulling variations (especially seated rows).

The serratus anterior is also a very important muscle in facilitating scapular posterior tilt, a must for healthy overhead humeral activity. Supine and standing single-arm dumbbell protractions are good bets for dynamically training this small yet important muscle; scap pushups, scap dips, and scap pullups in which the athlete is instructed to keep the scapulae tight to the rib cage are effective isometric challenges to the serratus anterior.


But the best advice I could give is, since you have already injured your rotator cuff, you should visit a competent physical therapist.
 
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