Which Federer losing streak vs Djokodal has "hurt" his GOAThood more?
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Poisoned Slice
Bionic Poster
I would say the Djokovic one. Fed's losses to Nadal off clay felt really just like mental issues, tennis wise it just seems Nadal has nothing on Fed (at least off clay). But against Djokovic it seemed more than just mental, albeit Djokovic's streak came against a very post-prime Fed.
terribleIVAN
Hall of Fame
+1
It's a bit like Becker making sure to win 10 of 11 matches vs Edberg AFTER losing to him two Wimbledon finals out of 3: nobody will allude to these 10 wins at the end of their careers, but will always remember the result of these 3 Wimbledon finals.
D
Deleted member 688153
Guest
Rafa 100% damaged him a lot more, both here and in general
terribleIVAN
Hall of Fame
The Poll should have included RG 2005 to 2008.
Prime Fed had 4 tries to beat Rafa at RG, or at least to push him to the limit, but never managed ONCE to reach the fifth set.
And this wasn't even PRIME Rafa.
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MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Good old TTW lol. You would swear by reading here that any 4.0 would take Nadal off Chatrier.
terribleIVAN
Hall of Fame
??
USO 2010
USO 2011
Fed was 29 and 30.
Against DELPotro at USO 2009, he was 28.
You're old after 30.
terribleIVAN
Hall of Fame
??
For W 2014 and 2015, Fed was 32 and 33.
Since when 32 and 33 is mid 30 ??
Fed was 28 when he lost to Berdych at W 2010.
29 when he lost to Tsonga at W 2011
31 when he lost to Stakhovsky at W 2013
Start da Game
Hall of Fame
though fed walked in as a favourite in most of those matches, i think nadal's streak was kind of expected as pundits saw him as a legend in the makings equal to fed.........but djokovic after initial years of struggle put on quite a show in 2011........still he wasn't imagined to be a grass legend, so i am kind of surprised that fed is 0-3 in wimbledon finals to djokovic who is not even a proper grasscourt player, i mean at least fed plays grass court tennis the way it is meant to be played........i expected him to win quite definitely in 2014 as he clearly had a superior game to novak at that point.........so clearly those wimbledon losses to djoko should hurt his resume more than the beatings at the hands of rafa in his prime........
so once again all this emphasizes the point that mental aspect cannot be ignored in any sport........there is no excuse for losing due to mental inability to stand firm on your ground........nadal never allowed fedovic in his territory, he still dominates them.........you cannot claim the same for fedovic on their respective territories........
so once again all this emphasizes the point that mental aspect cannot be ignored in any sport........there is no excuse for losing due to mental inability to stand firm on your ground........nadal never allowed fedovic in his territory, he still dominates them.........you cannot claim the same for fedovic on their respective territories........
terribleIVAN
Hall of Fame
BackhandDTL
Hall of Fame
Nadals matches hurt Fed.
Djokovic couldnt beat young Fed very often.
0-3 at W Fs is terrible but understandable
Djokovic couldnt beat young Fed very often.
0-3 at W Fs is terrible but understandable
USO
Banned
There's no damage to Federer's legacy.
Even though Nadal had the upper hand over Federer for years, Federer beating Nadal at the 2017 AO and 2019 W definitely showed how incredible Federer is and repaired some of the previous damage done in their rivalry.
As for Djokovic beating Federer very late in Federer's career, this does no damage at all. Djokovic was in his prime while Federer was past his prime. If anything, the fact that elderly citizen Federer had match points in the 2019 W final against #1 prime Djokovic is a hugely embarrassing moment for Djokovic and shows how overrated Djokovic is.
Even though Nadal had the upper hand over Federer for years, Federer beating Nadal at the 2017 AO and 2019 W definitely showed how incredible Federer is and repaired some of the previous damage done in their rivalry.
As for Djokovic beating Federer very late in Federer's career, this does no damage at all. Djokovic was in his prime while Federer was past his prime. If anything, the fact that elderly citizen Federer had match points in the 2019 W final against #1 prime Djokovic is a hugely embarrassing moment for Djokovic and shows how overrated Djokovic is.
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beard
Legend
It's hard to chose... Both streaks are bad, but I will go with Novak:
- Novak beat Fed in 3 W finals...
- Nadal streak includes 2 FO, anyone think Fed had any chance?
- Novak streak includes winning at Feds 3 best slams...
- Age isn't that important, proved by Fed himself in his h2h with Nadal...
- Novak streak isn't over...
But to repeat... It's close one...
- Novak beat Fed in 3 W finals...
- Nadal streak includes 2 FO, anyone think Fed had any chance?
- Novak streak includes winning at Feds 3 best slams...
- Age isn't that important, proved by Fed himself in his h2h with Nadal...
- Novak streak isn't over...
But to repeat... It's close one...
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Where was Pete at the ages Fed was losing to Djokovic at Wimb?
mike danny
Bionic Poster
This. That's why it's baffling to see some posters group Djokovic eith Nadal like they share equal credit at dethroning Fed or something.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Easily Rafa. Only on TTW is losing to a 6 years younger ATG post age 32 considered a legacy shattering streak. Fed didn't get to face on the Thiem's of this world in his 30's.
terribleIVAN
Hall of Fame
AO 2008: Novak beat a 27 year old Fed
USO 2010: Novak beat a 29 year old Fed
USO 2011: Novak beat a 30 year old Fed
D
Deleted member 777746
Guest
Goathood claim? Dude's not even the best of his generation, let alone all time.
D
Deleted member 777746
Guest
No, he didn't. He got to face the Baghdatises of this world in slam finals in his 20s.
Those of us who watched tennis in '07 remember how Novak humbled Fed in Montreal, then went on to give Fed (and his fans) heart attacks in the final of the Open a few months later, holding set points in the first and second sets, as a 20 year old and first timer slam finalist. If Fed gets to play Nole in his twenties, things don't get better for him. They get worse - because not only does he get fewer slams, his legacy tanks before he hits 30.
MeatTornado
Talk Tennis Guru
I think it's because they did affect Fed's greatness in equal ways. Imagine if Roger was still racking up slams throughout his entire 30s. Winning Wimby 2014-15, 19 and USO 15 would be worth just as much legacy-wise as the slams Rafa denied him earlier.
The difference is one was way more impressive than the other.
ForehandRF
Legend
The thing is that losing those matches to Djokovic, especially Wimbledon 2019, let Fed without time to add more to his tally and secure the slam record.
D
Deleted member 629564
Guest
clout
Hall of Fame
2014-1981 = 33, 2015-1981 = 34, and 2019-1981 = 38.
33 is probably still early 30s but 34 is mid 30s while 38 is late 30s. Fed was only a year younger because he has a later birthday
terribleIVAN
Hall of Fame
I love revisionism, but only when done in good faith.
8 august 1981 + 33 = 8 august 2014.
Wimbledon final is 6 july.
Therefore Fed was 32 when he lost that final.
He was 33 when he lost the W 2015 final.
He turned 34 for the USO 2015 final, also lost.
32 and 33 aren't mid 30's, but rather early 30's.
Sephiroth
Hall of Fame
Djokovic obviously
Nadal's never given 3 L's to good ol' Rog in 3 Wimbledon finals, what is apparently supposed to be Roger's backyard. 0-3 and 40-15. Not even 1 win. That's a massacre.
He tried to be like Nadal at RG at Wimbledon thinking just focus on Wimbledon and it'll be locked up and well...didn't go according to plan
Nadal's never given 3 L's to good ol' Rog in 3 Wimbledon finals, what is apparently supposed to be Roger's backyard. 0-3 and 40-15. Not even 1 win. That's a massacre.
He tried to be like Nadal at RG at Wimbledon thinking just focus on Wimbledon and it'll be locked up and well...didn't go according to plan
Service Ace
Hall of Fame
Sure, proving he could beat his two biggest rivals back to back, becoming the only man to beat those two in the same tournament, wouldn’t have proved anything.
The lies some fans tell themselves to take the sting out of a legacy defining loss is just so disingenuous that it really says all that needs to be said about the honesty and integrity of the fanbase.
S
Stannis Baratheon
Guest
Service dude that might be true of many fans but believe me I genuinely believe it. Sure 40-15 has been a nightmare and I would change the outcome of the match in an instant if given a chance but if there is one match whose outcome I can change 40-15 will not even be in top-5 for me. I will change the outcome of AO09, RG06,07,11, Wimbley08 and then prolly 40-15 or maybe even Rome06 before it.Sure, proving he could beat his two biggest rivals back to back, becoming the only man to beat those two in the same tournament, wouldn’t have proved anything.
The lies some fans tell themselves to take the sting out of a legacy defining loss is just so disingenuous that it really says all that needs to be said about the honesty and integrity of the fanbase.
I see those loses as the ones that hurt his legacy but 40-15 I see as something that if he won would have added to his legacy sure but losing it didn't hurt his legacy imo. His performance had already proved that he was a monster in old age.
The loses in his prime however were the first ones that proved his relative mental midgetry to Nadal.
Federev
G.O.A.T.
I think that's a little harsh.
I agree it was heartbreaking.
I HATE IT
But as time goes by I think perspective says more about the insanity of Fed being in that positioning in the 1st place.
What is a nearly 38-year-old doing w 2MPS in a WB final against an incredible ATG who is SIX years his junior, defending champ, and world #1. (After beating the world #2 in 4 sets)
Only Fed makes that seem almost unimpressive - the expectations around him are so high.
I think his actual level is actually a bigger reality than his losing MPs, when he never should have been in the 1st place by all actually reasonable expectations.
The fact that he ROUTINED and wiped the floor w Novak just 4 months later at 38 - in the shadow of "40-15" - really even more emphatically emphasizes that WB was not a fluke, but that he really was playing just about the best tennis in the world - at 37/38 - that year.
Haters gonna hate around here, but when you think about it, it is really incredible.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Like I said before, had he won that match, it would have been the most impressive thing in tennis history imo to beat Nadal and Djokovic back to back at Wimby at his age. He was a swipe of the racquet away from doing it too.
Nadal I think, because by the time that Djokovic streak came everything felt like gravy for Federer. He had the slam record before his 28th birthday and it didn't seem likely until the last few years that anyone would catch him. People thought Nadal would be finished by his early 30s and Djokovic was still too far behind by the start of that streak. Wim '14 was only his 7th slam
terribleIVAN
Hall of Fame
Nadal of course totally decimated Fed's GOAT narrative during Fed's OWN PRIME.
But the peculiar thing is after 2013, Rafa stopped being a big threat on hard and grass, while Fed maintained his level.
Logically, Fed could have restored somehow his GOAT claim, but this is where Novak came to spoil the party.
Go down the list of their matches after 2013; Novak butchered him in every big event, time and again. Fed could have added an insane number of trophies and left the Rafa defeats firmly behind him; Novak just wouldn't let him.
I sincerely believe nobody could have stopped Roger at these non-clay events, Rafa included, except that cursed Djokovic.
In that sense, i reckon both Rafa and Novak damaged equally Fed's GOATHOOD claims.
But the peculiar thing is after 2013, Rafa stopped being a big threat on hard and grass, while Fed maintained his level.
Logically, Fed could have restored somehow his GOAT claim, but this is where Novak came to spoil the party.
Go down the list of their matches after 2013; Novak butchered him in every big event, time and again. Fed could have added an insane number of trophies and left the Rafa defeats firmly behind him; Novak just wouldn't let him.
I sincerely believe nobody could have stopped Roger at these non-clay events, Rafa included, except that cursed Djokovic.
In that sense, i reckon both Rafa and Novak damaged equally Fed's GOATHOOD claims.
Entername
Professional
It has to be Rafa.
2006 and 2007 RG - stopped Fed from winning back-to-back CYGS
2008 RG - gave Fed his worst beatdown ever
2008 WI - dethroned him from WI
2009 AO - dethroned him from HCs
2011 RG - stopped him from winning DCS (which Rafa himself now has)
2012 & 2014 AO - not as much historical implication as the ones above, but it does throw the "he only beats Fed on clay" argument out the window as Bull was up 3-0 at a HC slam against Maestro
Novak did stop Rog thrice at Wimbledon though (Swiss's best slam), which definitely is noteworthy because every other player who has won that match at a single slam have never lost at the ladder stages (Rafa is 13-0 at RG, Nole is 9-0 at AO, and PETE is 7-0 at WI).
Those three losses for Fed also directly turned Novak from being a Rafa/Connors-level grass court player to a Borg-level grass court player, which is mindblowing to me
2006 and 2007 RG - stopped Fed from winning back-to-back CYGS
2008 RG - gave Fed his worst beatdown ever
2008 WI - dethroned him from WI
2009 AO - dethroned him from HCs
2011 RG - stopped him from winning DCS (which Rafa himself now has)
2012 & 2014 AO - not as much historical implication as the ones above, but it does throw the "he only beats Fed on clay" argument out the window as Bull was up 3-0 at a HC slam against Maestro
Novak did stop Rog thrice at Wimbledon though (Swiss's best slam), which definitely is noteworthy because every other player who has won that match at a single slam have never lost at the ladder stages (Rafa is 13-0 at RG, Nole is 9-0 at AO, and PETE is 7-0 at WI).
Those three losses for Fed also directly turned Novak from being a Rafa/Connors-level grass court player to a Borg-level grass court player, which is mindblowing to me
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