Which gap is larger: Nadal over Nole on clay or Nole over Nadal on HC?
- Thread starter Nadalgaenger
- Start date
lud
Hall of Fame
Whatever makes you happy.
JaoSousa
Hall of Fame
Conveniently leaves out the fact that Nadal was far below par in 2015-16, where Djokovic beat him many times.
DjokoGOAT
Semi-Pro
nadal also had some wins over injured Novak in 17-18. Overall Nole has owned nadal h2h.
JaoSousa
Hall of Fame
Meetings in Nadal's slump period: 7
Meetings in Djokovic's slump period: 2
I need to say though, that your answer to the poll is not a bad one. They are pretty close when it comes to just playing each other. Just counting the period after 2011 is absurd though.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
DSH
Talk Tennis Guru
Even better. Nadal is one of the top 7 tennis players of the open era on hard courts.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
DSH
Talk Tennis Guru
Come through and slay lol. They literally act like the man can't play tennis.
He is the king of clay; he also deserves to be considered one of the greatest hard-court players of all time. Sunday’s win marks his fourth U.S. Open championship, tying him with John McEnroe. Only Pete Sampras and Federer, with five, have won more since the tournament moved to Flushing, and onto hard courts, in 1978. Nadal has also won the Australian Open, beating Federer to do so; the championship at Indian Wells, three times; and the Roger’s Cup, in Canada, five times—all on hard surfaces. At the U.S. Open, he has beaten Novak Djokovic, the greatest hard-court player of this era, twice. Nadal has often complained that hard courts have hobbled his knees, that too many tournaments are played on the surface. But what he’s mostly done on hard courts is conquer what daunts him, by fighting the kinds of relentless battles that he relishes, as he did against a rising hard-court comer on Sunday.
Rafael Nadal Defeats Daniil Medvedev in the Best U.S. Open Men’s Final of This Century
The match will be remembered as a moment of arrival for Medvedev, but it will also figure in the ongoing reëvaluation of Nadal as one of the greatest hard-court players of all time.
After joining this message board, I started to grow a certain dislike for Djokovic fans (or should I say stans to avoid accusing actual fans).
They are saying 2015 Nadal is peak or prime Nadal because Djokovic beat him so. WTH.
Nadal's dominance on clay is the biggest dominance on any surface in tennis history. Nothing comes close to it. I might argue Nadal's edge over Borg on clay is way more comparable to Djokovic's edge on Nadal on Hard.
They are saying 2015 Nadal is peak or prime Nadal because Djokovic beat him so. WTH.
Nadal's dominance on clay is the biggest dominance on any surface in tennis history. Nothing comes close to it. I might argue Nadal's edge over Borg on clay is way more comparable to Djokovic's edge on Nadal on Hard.
Nadalgaenger
G.O.A.T.
Rafa gets 2 chances/year to accumulate HC slams. Multiply that by number of years in career
Djokovic; 15 RG entries, 9 semi finals, 4 finals, 1 title, 68-14 W-L record (82.9%)
Nadal; 30 hard GS entries, 14 semi finals, 10 finals, 5 titles, 129-25 W-L record (83.8%)
Aside from semi finals to entries ratio, Nadal has simply better results.
helterskelter
G.O.A.T.
Then again. Djokovic has an edge at Wimbledon. And it is more decisive than Nadal’s at the US Open. So:
1. Nadal >>>>> Djokovic at RG
2. Djokovic >>>> Nadal at AO
3. Djokovic >> Nadal at wimbledon
4. Nadal > Djokovic at UO
Indeed, Djokovic could end up tied with Nadal in New York. And arguably ahead if you count more than just titles. I go with overall body of work (finals and semifinals) over head to head.
Karma Tennis
Legend
In your entire career, would you rather make the Finals at 10 Major Tournaments and lose them all? Or would you rather make one Major Tournament Final and win it?
Would you prefer to win a Roland Garros Title against Sampras or Nadal?
Would you prefer to win a Wimbledon Title against Federer or Nadal?
Would you prefer to win an AO Title against Djokovic or Nadal?
netlets
Professional
Djokovic's dominance at AO and Nadal's at RG are comparable, but on most hard courts Nadal is much more competitive with Djokovic. Meanwhile there's no clay event that Nadal doesn't blow Djokovic out of the water.
Clay it is. Nadal on clay is so insanely dominant that certain people have to pretend it's not a real surface
This is completely untrue. Talk about revisionist history. Djokovic has absolutely destroyed Nadal on hardcourt in the last several years - when was the last time he won a set? On the other hand Nadal is 8-7 against Djokovic I believe on clay. Rafa dominated early, but Djokovic has the better of that rivalry right now - even on clay. Djokovic will beat Rafa in best of five on any surface now and I’m a Fed fan. He just hasn’t played him at RG in a few years. Didn’t he beat him the last time they played there?
King No1e
G.O.A.T.
I'm not talking about H2H matchup. I'm talking about overall stats - titles, records, etc. Nadal has a sizable lead over Djokovic in every major clay event. Meanwhile they're roughly even in the summer HC swing.
Matchup-wise, Djokovic is more dominant on HC than Nadal on clay, at least since 2014.
HetTheGreaterer
Banned
You said it. The gap may be "bigger" between Djokovic and Rafa on clay, which is why Nadal is epic af for still winning 5 HC slams
HetTheGreaterer
Banned
True.
7 Djokodal Meetings from 2015-june16 (nole wins all 7)
2 Djokodal Meetings from 2017-june18 (nad wins both)
beard
Legend
Aside from semi ratio? Are you aware Novak and Rafa mostly played in semi or earlier at RG, so Novak gave Rafa chance to beat him? So semi ratio is actually most valid one.
Secondly, are you forgetting Nadal skipped 4 HC slams in period you mention.
Basically no need for deep analysis, just look at number of matches they played at clay and HC and will see how it's skewed... Novak gave more chances to Nadal to beat him at Nadal's favorite surface that opposite, much, much more...
Plus, look at op, we are talking about h2h's, so Nadal winning 5 or 55 HC slams is not important for this topic...
Yet, I think that Nadal wins here, but slightly, which is actually great Novak's success, is we know what beast is Nadal on clay...
Bunch of useless comments. Nothing more.
Saying look at OP without a care for the quoted post.
Nadalgaenger
G.O.A.T.
Not apples to apples comparison. Nole only gets one clay slam a year. Rafa has two.
DSH
Talk Tennis Guru
I agree on what is related to their matches on hard courts; there is no need for discussion in this regard.
But about their clay matches, you are resorting to many things that are not exact.
It is true that from 2011 to 2016, the Serbian had a positive balance in best of three sets matches.
But since 2017 Nadal has beaten him the last three times they have met there.
So it is not correct to say that Djokovic dominates him on clay as you falsely claim.
.
Second point, saying that he will defeat him on any surface you are only saying your opinion, which does not mean that you are right. And I completely disagree. He only dominates it on hard courts, on grass he is also superior but the differences are much smaller (Wimbledon 2018 could easily have another winner).
Third, that you are a fan of Federer does not give you a supposedly superior authority to imply that your point of view is objective, which is also debatable.
Fourth point, that they have not met in RG, is Djokovic's fault, not Nadal's, as you seem to want to imply.
The Spaniard since 2017 has won three consecutive titles there, while Serbian has failed to reach the final.
He has been very lucky to have fallen before, otherwise he would have lost all the matches in Paris against him seen the level of both there in recent years.
And yes, 5 years ago he defeated him at the worst moment of Nadal's career, my sincere congratulations.
But if you want to extrapolate that result to indicate that it is possible to repeat it, you are coming to a bad conclusion.
It is 6 to 1 in favor of the Spaniard, do not forget it. The Serbian decline is evident on slow courts, several players can defeat him on that surface.
Many, still make the mistake that because there is no opposition between them on hard courts, these results will immediately transfer to clay, they seem to forget the differences between one surface and another, the sensations are very different and mainly that the movement in certain surface marks who dominates and magnifies the virtues of one over the other.
And the results obtained are the only objective above the diversity of opinions, which in most cases are based on the purely emotional and on the preferences of the fans.
Hence the reason for the online bookmaker boom in the last decade.
beard
Legend
I responded to quoted post properly, and remarked that total number of slams Nadal won isn't important on topic we write...
About useless comments I made, you should respond properly and argumentatively prove them useless...
Till then I will consider you just another new/reborn troll...
helterskelter
G.O.A.T.
I’m talking about when tied for titles. I would prefer one title and one losing final to one title and no losing finals. Regardless of who I beat.
DjokoGOAT
Semi-Pro
Nadal isn’t more impressive on grass than Djokovic and Federer on clay. 1 extra title but a bunch of losses to journeymen.
Karma Tennis
Legend
LOL. Nadal has defeated Federer at Wimbledon ... (If that is not an incredible achievement, then Novak's success against Roger there isn't either!)
Neither Djokovic or Federer has come close to beating Nadal at Roland Garros.
DjokoGOAT
Semi-Pro
Novak has beat nadal in 2015 at Roland Garros and at all clay events.
Clay lover
Legend
I'm gonna go with the unpopular opinion here. Nadal has no hope vs Djokovic on hard.
DjokoGOAT
Semi-Pro
Achievements yes
H2h Novak dominated nadal more on hc’s than nadal did on clay.
clout
Hall of Fame
It’s gotta be Nadal. He’s won 5 titles at HC slams (playing in 10 total finals) while Novak only has 1 RG (playing in “only” 4 finals).
In terms of H2H it’s more less the same although Novak scored a lot of his wins over a subpar Nadal in 2014-16.
If only prime Fed got to play that Nadal on clay instead of the younger one who never missed a shot and ran every ball down. *sigh*
In terms of H2H it’s more less the same although Novak scored a lot of his wins over a subpar Nadal in 2014-16.
If only prime Fed got to play that Nadal on clay instead of the younger one who never missed a shot and ran every ball down. *sigh*
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NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Karma Tennis
Legend
Yes I know about 2015.
I was talking about FINALS !!!! Sorry if that wasn't obvious to you.
BTW, do you remember what happened to Djokovic at RG in 2015 after that?
You're right, Nadal is on a current 9-match HC losing streak against Djokovic, going back to 2013. He was so lucky avoiding Nole at USO, and having to meet him only once at AO since.
BTW, Nadal is 1-3 against Federer at Wimbledon. Djokovic is just the opposite, 3-1 against Federer. Nadal is again very lucky, only met Djokovic once at Wimbledon since 2011.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Yes I know about 2015.
I was talking about FINALS !!!! Sorry if that wasn't obvious to you.
BTW, do you remember what happened to Djokovic at RG in 2015 after that?
Not even only in 2015 but also 2013. That wasn't close to beating him? And if you didn't say finals why should that be obvious to me? Djokovic and Nadal played more matches at RG in rounds that weren't finals than the other way around.
Karma Tennis
Legend
I don't know why. It's just that when I am discussing the best players in the world, I normally focus on their performances in the Finals of the Biggest Tournaments (ie the Majors!). If a player makes the Final of a Major, it usually means they are in excellent form. And that is probably the best time to evaluate and compare their performance with their peers.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
The answer is not that complicated. Nadal is closer to Djokovic on HC than Djokovic is to Nadal on clay.
Mr Backhand
Rookie
Need to see a more recent clay meeting between them, because last time was Rome 2019, where Djokovic had the world's worst start.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
There's also the fact that Nadal still defeated 2 decent versions of Djokovic in HC slams, while Novak to this day has never beaten a decent Nadal at RG.
It's really not that close. Nadal on HC >> Djokovic on clay.
In 2013, Djokovic was in a slump. He didn't get over the slump until the victory over Federer at 2014 Wimbledon.
Djokovic currently is on a 9-match HC winning over Nadal! Djokovic on clay >> Nadal on HC.
DjokoGOAT
Semi-Pro
Yeah if Novak faced Anderson and medvedev level opponent at RG he would have won more than 1.
