which is a better weightlifting strategy?

randomname

Professional
Would it be better to do four sets of four different excerises that all work on the same muscle group, or to do 6 different excercises of 3 sets each split between two different muscles groups (like biceps and triceps)?
 
T

TW CSR

Guest
Most people start with a split that hits multiple muscle groups each training session. Popular splits are back/bis, chest/tris, legs/shoulders. Eventually you may decide to target just one muscle group per training session. I usually do 5 days a week starting with legs, chest, tris/bis, shoulders, back.
 

cncretecwbo

Semi-Pro
Most people start with a split that hits multiple muscle groups each training session. Popular splits are back/bis, chest/tris, legs/shoulders. Eventually you may decide to target just one muscle group per training session. I usually do 5 days a week starting with legs, chest, tris/bis, shoulders, back.
how do you manage to work shoulder and not triceps? back and not biceps?
 

jpr

New User
i read www.tmuscle.com every day. great info...you should check it out

related to your Q: you will find numerous articles that say what you're asking is only necessary for elite bodybuilders; in fact a waste of time for anyone less than elite. you should only consider that many exercises per muscle group after you've mastered (& hit primary strength targets like 2x bodyweight) the core lifts...ie squat, deadlift, pullups, bench, military.
 

T Woody

Rookie
Unless you're Ronnie Coleman, there is no need to do 4 exercises that hit the same muscle group. Things like tricep presses, tricep extensions, dumbell flys, and preacher curls are a waste of time and energy for an athlete or normal person. Those exercises are tools for bodybuilders to a bigger bicep peak, more defined tricep depression, and chiseled shoulders.

If your goal is to get stronger for tennis or any sport, start each strength session with a major lift: squat, deadlift, or power clean Do 3 to 5 sets of 5 reps (3 reps for power clean). Follow this main lift with 5 sets of 5 of standing overhead press or bench press. Then do a few sets of 10 of dips and chins (add weight if needed). Do this 3 times per week, rotate among the exercises, and keep adding weight each week.
 

Gmedlo

Professional
I'm lifting full body 3 days a week. I don't see why anyone interested in athletics would choose a bodypart split (aside from upper/lower) because in an athletic, compound movement, isolation is impossible (i.e. no, benching does not just work your triceps and pecs.)

I would start with something basic like rippetoes or your own program designed with a focus on compound lifts.
 

coyfish

Hall of Fame
how do you manage to work shoulder and not triceps? back and not biceps?
When you perform a bench press you do engage the triceps. For a beginner this is sufficient but for those who are in decent shape its not. That of course depends on your goals. You don't need powerful tricepts for most sports . . . Thats why it is important to have good splits if that is how you choose to workout. For example its not a good idea to hit chest the day after you hit tricepts heavily. Or do back after bicepts. Those secondary muscle groups will max out before you are able to really work the stronger muscle groups.

But really for tennis you don't need much upper body strength at all. Frankly I find it confusing as to why so many weightlifting threads are started on these forums. Tennis players don't need to be doing bench press, heavy squats, bicept curls, etc. Tennis players can develop more strength than they need just by doing bodyweight exersizes like push ups, pull ups, jump squats, sprints, lunges, etc. I assume that these people just want to work out to be healthy, gain strength, look good, and just post it here because they are tennis players.


As for the OP's question. Ill answer this coming from a strictly weightlifting (non tennis training) perspective. Working out larger muscle gruops like hamstrings and chest benefit from more stimulation. They are more resiliant and can handle more than smaller groups like biceps or shoulders.

My advice would be what I always tell lifters. Balance . . . Do a little of both. For example I incorporate biceps with my back routine for a couple weeks. Then I switch it up and have a day for just my bi's and tri's.


Tricep extensions as well as other isolations are not useless for your average lifter. If your goal is to gain strength you can benefit from isolation. People on here seem to be obsessed with not doing any isolation. Thats only true if you are a beginner lifter or If you are a HARDCORE tennis player trying to minimize weight while only working tennis specific muscles. But if you are a tennis player looking to workout so you can gain overall strength and look good than go for it.
 

tricky

Hall of Fame
Frankly I find it confusing as to why so many weightlifting threads are started on these forums. Tennis players don't need to be doing bench press, heavy squats, bicept curls, etc. Tennis players can develop more strength than they need just by doing bodyweight exersizes like push ups, pull ups, jump squats, sprints, lunges, etc.
Basic weightlifting works as a base. Deadlifts, squats, etc. (I agree about bench press/dips, not a lot of real functional value for tennis players.) Ballistic functional movement like jump squats really should not be done during an entire proper cycle, and their skill transfer over to tennis is not that great. Of course, a complete tennis conditioning program would involve more than weightlifting.

In terms of isolation work, there's pro/con to them. Though isolation work for the rotator cuff is a really good idea for tennis as well as any throwing activity. But it's not difficult to add that stuff in, once you've set up your base.
 

coyfish

Hall of Fame
Basic weightlifting works as a base. Deadlifts, squats, etc. (I agree about bench press/dips, not a lot of real functional value for tennis players.) Ballistic functional movement like jump squats really should not be done during an entire proper cycle, and their skill transfer over to tennis is not that great. Of course, a complete tennis conditioning program would involve more than weightlifting.

In terms of isolation work, there's pro/con to them. Though isolation work for the rotator cuff is a really good idea for tennis as well as any throwing activity. But it's not difficult to add that stuff in, once you've set up your base.
Hmmm so you don't think jump squats are good for tennis ??? Not sure I agree. That explosive movement is extremely important. Much more important than heavy squats. You don't need any heavy exersizes for tennis. Light squats, lunges, bodyweight exersizes, etc. Lifting heavy will get you nowhere but it won't hurt you either (up to a certain threshold).
 
best thing is doing full body workouts. by doing 3 or 4 exercises for each muscle you are just going to bulk up which probably isn't something that is going to help you're tennis. if you are doing rows you are using biceps so after you do a set of rows do a set of lunges with biceps curl. if you are doing bench press afterwards do a set of squats with an over head press exploding on the way up. jump squats or any plyometrics are good the only problem is that they are dangerous and could cause injuries if not done properly.
 

Kobble

Hall of Fame
Unless you're Ronnie Coleman, there is no need to do 4 exercises that hit the same muscle group. Things like tricep presses, tricep extensions, dumbell flys, and preacher curls are a waste of time and energy for an athlete or normal person. Those exercises are tools for bodybuilders to a bigger bicep peak, more defined tricep depression, and chiseled shoulders.

If your goal is to get stronger for tennis or any sport, start each strength session with a major lift: squat, deadlift, or power clean Do 3 to 5 sets of 5 reps (3 reps for power clean). Follow this main lift with 5 sets of 5 of standing overhead press or bench press. Then do a few sets of 10 of dips and chins (add weight if needed). Do this 3 times per week, rotate among the exercises, and keep adding weight each week.
I agree. Don't waste time with isolation work unless you are entering a beauty contest.
 

tricky

Hall of Fame
Hmmm so you don't think jump squats are good for tennis ???
Ballistic and plyometric movements can't be done all offseason. Nor is it effective that way. To your body, it's the equivalent of lifting, in brief bursts, very heavy in terms of Type II threshhold activation and it needs to be incorporated as a proper phase within the program. Moreover, it's inherently more effective after a strength base is developed with squat training, because ballistic anything are designed to maximize what you've developed. Same is true with all plyometric movements or even speed work. It needs to be planned within a complete program.
 

coyfish

Hall of Fame
Ballistic and plyometric movements can't be done all offseason. Nor is it effective that way. To your body, it's the equivalent of lifting, in brief bursts, very heavy in terms of Type II threshhold activation and it needs to be incorporated as a proper phase within the program. Moreover, it's inherently more effective after a strength base is developed with squat training, because ballistic anything are designed to maximize what you've developed. Same is true with all plyometric movements or even speed work. It needs to be planned within a complete program.
I agree. I Though you meant that they were just purely ineffective towards tennis. The same could be said about any type of lifting though. You wan't to cycle / change your splits / routines / etc. For the most part people on these boards are new to lifting so with that assumption in mind I answer peoples questions unless they provide background. Before you even think about cycling or more advanced techniques you need to at least decide if you are willing / able to consistantly hit the gym. Once you build a foundation then you can start pursuing advanted training.
 
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