TennisDawg
Hall of Fame
To hit the serve the correct way is very very hard. I would say most players learn a reliable serve but few have a smooth serve that is done correctly.
Which is the most difficult technique to learn in tennis?
- Thread starter Servivor
- Start date
That depends if the kid has good technique, or is just winging it on the fly.
When I was in junior high, most of the 90's exponent basketball team did not have good jumping technique. They didn't know how to swing their arms, get low at the right moment to spring, or reach with one hand instead of two. That could be taught, but someone who has the technique can only improve by getting stronger.
Bender
G.O.A.T.
For me, it's the aggressive second serve. Can't go a single set without double faulting more than twice, usually. But then again I'm hitting them aggressively as part of practice so I don't really mind.
It's just annoying because I can hit the flashy, niche, or unideal shots like the BH overhead and reverse FHs extremely well (I hit a few banana FHs last week, and I'm still riding on that high!) and I find them intuitive, but for some blasted reason the aggressive second serve is playing hard to get with me.
My only excuse is that there's a physical element to it, as I can't rotate my shoulder out to get the topslice motion consistently without feeling pain.
It's just annoying because I can hit the flashy, niche, or unideal shots like the BH overhead and reverse FHs extremely well (I hit a few banana FHs last week, and I'm still riding on that high!) and I find them intuitive, but for some blasted reason the aggressive second serve is playing hard to get with me.
My only excuse is that there's a physical element to it, as I can't rotate my shoulder out to get the topslice motion consistently without feeling pain.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
Agreed. I'm really concentrating on maintaining RHS on my 2nd serve and going for it.
parasailing
Legend
Serve is definitely the hardest and one that I still struggle to become more consistent on.
r2473
G.O.A.T.
Correct answer.
The only reason people think they have a "great" serve (or any other stroke for that matter) is because 1) They've never seen how ugly it looks (but imagine it looks like Federer); 2) They don't know how bad their stroke is, because they only know what they know.
The only time you really realize how bad your strokes are is when you make some real improvement. Then you look back and realize how much you sucked.
user92626
G.O.A.T.
I wanted to say the serve but after a few seconds of thinking it's really the volley.
Although the recreational serves look ugly and weak, they still exist. The volley is so hard that majority of doubles players don't even attempt it, and you know covering the net is very essential in doubles. Even a bad net play is better than none. Over time bad net coverage will likely get better or opponents can mess up by distraction. No net game in doubles is a joke (at least for me). Yet you see so many doubles without net men.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
Which is odd because, bio-mechanically, the volley is the simplest shot in tennis. When I'm that close to the net, all I have to do is turn my racquet such that the strings face where I want to hit the ball and let contact occur. Often there is enough incoming momentum I don't even have to swing.
It won't necessarily be a great volley but at least it will go in. If I exert that kind of minimal effort on a serve, the ball won't make it past my own SL.
What makes the volley so difficult is that people overcomplicate it by:
- taking the racquet back too far
- swinging too much
- attempting massive backspin
- trying to "punch" a volley which should be guided
- trying to put every volley away regardless of whether they're in good position to do so
- being afraid of getting passed so they're always tense and gripping the racquet too hard
About the only thing most people under-do with volleys is footwork: they try to do almost everything with their hands and forget that their feet can be utilized also.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
What problems do you have?
- Hitting too hard [ball goes too far and becomes a sitter]
- Hitting too soft [ball fails to clear the net]
- Hitting too much backspin which lowers accuracy
- Hitting flat or TS, which are inferior, IMO, to backspin
- Not choosing the right scenario
Note: IMO, the easiest time to hit a DS is when the incoming ball has some TS. I think it's very difficult to do when the incoming ball has slice.
Have your partner [or ball machine or friendly neighborhood wall] feed you mild TS with you standing one step inside the BL and just get a feel for the shot with no pressure. i suggest trying to clear the net by 5' both in the vertical and horizontal [ie height over the net and distance past the net]. Use some backspin but not so much it compromises your shot accuracy.
Using these conservative parameters, you should be able to get a pretty good feel for the shot after only 10-20 attempts. The hard part then becomes being able to execute it on-the-fly in a dynamic situation where you haven't had 10 practice attempts.
Friedman Whip
Professional
10-20 attempts? I would say more like 10,000 to 20,000. And who in their right mind would try to hit a drop shot with top spin?
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
I've seen Chael's videos: based on his skill level, I doubt it will take him 10,000 reps to get a feel for the shot [ie am I hitting it too hard/soft/high/low/flat/close to the sideline/etc]. If he's making the same mistake most of the time, that will be the easiest to fix. If he's all over the map, that will take longer.
I didn't write that he'd master the shot in 20 reps. I just want him to gain insight to how racquet face angle, grip strength, targeting, and backspin play a role in the final product.
user92626
G.O.A.T.
Yep, it is very odd that we see quite many people play doubles from the baseline, huh?
Frankly, the number amazes me and in a way makes me glad because I knew once I gained a bit of the net skill I'd be many miles ahead of many doubles players!
Different people see their problems in different ways. There are so many ways that I find hopeless to troubleshoot for them (my friends, partners, etc.) Alot of time I just need my partners to do the dumb down versions -- stick up the racket face and swat the ball like a fly or stand so close to the net and block their corner tightly. lol.
Not true. I m 52 My partner pushed us up to A1 after winning a2 comp. I was getting bagelled every week. I got a coaching session weekly. I concentrated on on 2 foot work issues.
Split step and move diagonally fwd on ROS.
Split step wide n low on defence and drop step to run it down.
In a 10 week season we finished middle of ladder.
onehandbh
G.O.A.T.
12 to 15 inches is a good increase.
I think once you get to around a 27-30 inch veritical it becomes more difficult to increase the progress.
bitcoinoperated
Hall of Fame
Agree, it's like trying to hit a serve when you have no idea one is coming, need to move into position while looking at the sky then execute the stroke from a different part of the court each time with different ball trajectory.
A high lob with the ball rocketing down near vertically is stupidly hard.
Add to the fact if you mess it up, your opponent figures you can't hit them drawing you in and lobbing you again and again.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
It will help you to work on your anticipation: there are certain tells that inform you that your opponent is about to lob [ie defensive position, off-balance, open racquet face, etc].
[/QUOTE]
need to move into position while looking at the sky
Limpinhitter
G.O.A.T.
I don't know if footwork and shot preparation are the most difficult technique in tennis. But, in my view, they are the most important and most neglected.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
@Limpinhitter: "The eastern forehand grip isn't dead. It just smells funny."
"He's not dead. He's resting."
"He's not dead. He's resting."
A solid 2nd serve with a great racquet acceleration. You can find players with good movement, good volleys, and even good first serves at lower levels too. A player with a great consistent 2nd serve is usually a high 4.5 or higher. Such a player is also most likely already good at other facets of the game.
ChaelAZ
G.O.A.T.
It must be because I see it as causing most of the shot problems people have in recreational tennis, and lesser but still a factor up through pros even.
bitcoinoperated
Hall of Fame
The irony is that it is meant to be a %age shot
FiReFTW
Legend
Once you learn proper technique and engrain it in your muscle memory and hit enough shots, you are capable of easily hitting and placing shots and shaping shots, but its when you are out of position that it breaks apart, because the ball is too wide or too infront or whatever, so for sure footwork is incredibly important.
FiReFTW
Legend
I know right.
I know once I get it down and consistent it will be the most high % shot, but at the moment I can hit flat serves more consistently than the kick serve, toss is all over and I can't dial it in exactly, and it either spins too much into the net or I overcompansate and it goes too deep.. I mean I still hit a decent amount in, but I should be able to hit 100 out of 100 easily lol.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
Start from the SL and get 10 in a row in the box.
Then take a step back; repeat. Keep going until you're back at the BL.
If you miss, step forward and reset the count to 0.
FiReFTW
Legend
Its easy from SL, and from the middle of SL and BL aswell, its when I go back to the BL I seem to start having problems for some reason.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
Then break it down more granularly between where you're comfortable and the BL. There's 18' of space there. Does it gradually get less comfortable or is there a certain "line of death"?
Chingoo1255
Rookie
It's easy for me to get it in when at any place other than the baseline. From what it looks like from server's point of view, I see shape, the swerve right to left then the bounce either straight or to the fight with kick.
Once I'm at baseline, something in my subconscious snaps and I lose it all. I go from being consistent to patchy accuracy and the swerve and kick is just not the same. I think that subconsciously my mind is telling body need more pace/power so the toss becomes different, the swing path changes, and it becomes a different serve altogether. I'm thinking it's more of a top slice serve. But I step one or two foot into the court and couple of serves later, the kick serve is back. I have not figured out how to stop this mental issue.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
I think that once you pass the BL your mind is telling you that it's "real" and "it counts" and that affects your mechanics.
The solution is not mechanical; it's psychological.
FiReFTW
Legend
At SL its easy because ur so much higher than the net it feels like ur hitting down into the court, im hitting fast paced shots not slow loopy ones.
At middle its also fairly easy since ur still quite taller over the net.
Once at the BL then it doesnt work anymore and you need to swing more up so everything changes.
But when I go on knees on BL I swing up alot and get good arc and spin, its just when I stand that it feels a bit uncomfortable, I swing too much up and the ball goes long, then a bit less and the spin curves it into the net, I dont find a consistent middle that consistently works.
And to make it all worse my toss is a bit inconsistent and I tend to toss it too far to my right (not enough "behind" me) and from there its hard and I get alot of slice and more of a topspin slice than a kick.
IowaGuy
Hall of Fame
Pros usually double-fault every 10 to 15 serves, so twice a set it not too bad. Hopefully, your 1st serve gives you more than enough free points to compensate...
https://www.atpworldtour.com/en/news/federer-infosys-second-serves-october-2017
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
Put some sort of rope a few feet above the net so you're forced to spin the ball rather than hitting directly.
So move one foot [12 inches] at a time backwards from the SL. Your result is not a sudden change; it's gradual. I doubt there will be a point where it all of a sudden stops working. I suspect it will get gradually less effective as you move further away.
Your "a bit less" is obviously not a small amount.
When your serve goes long, how much vertical clearance are you getting over the net? You should be trying to exaggerate and get several feet of clearance.
If you can do that, using a bit less swing will not cause the trajectory to drop by > several feet.
Have someone observe your trajectories as you progress backwards.
You need to practice your toss, first in isolation of actually serving and only later with an actual serve.
FiReFTW
Legend
Yeah I really need to improve my toss, its the biggest issue and its killing me!
I changed the toss technique recently so its even more inconsistent because its new and fresh, so its all over the place!!!
Btw I replied to all in bold in the quote
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
FiReFTW
Legend
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/road-to-5-0-the-serve.615289/
Check my vid in 1st post.
1:16 and beyond, where it says kick serve.
Those 2 serves are not rly kick serves tho but more like topspin slice, like 7 or 8 out of 10 I hit topslice, because my toss is not enough behind, a few times it is its a nice kick tho, just dont get the toss behind enough consistently.
Anyway thats the pace and trajectory im practicing at.
Maybe I should dial it back and add more arc I think, I mean im almost serving like im owning and have mastered the serve when im rly not, maybe start with a bigger arc and rly try to spin it in, even if its loopy and slow.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
I messed up the format of my last reply. Here's what you may not have read:
But since you're having accuracy problems, you shouldn't compare your trajectory to other players that can hit the serve. Their trajectory is more aggressive because they've dialed in on the technique. You need to start with a more conservative trajectory [ie loopier] and get the ball in. Then you can worry about making it more aggressive.
Serve is pretty clearly the hardest to learn. Footwork might be considered something hard to learn, but I don't think it's really hard to learn, I think it's just hard to train. I think by far the best thing for footwork is running sprints. Not many people are out there running sprints every practice. If people trained running every time they hit the court like they practice their strokes then there would be a lot more people with decent footwork. Of course as you get older it's harder on the body to do that so you have to work on your fitness and everything else, so I'd classify it more as just hard to do, not necessarily hard to learn.
I am old. So to improve Court speed I concentrate on a long first movement ie covering a lot of ground and anticipation. The instant I see my opponent is hitting to my backhand I start moving to that side.
Of course that means sometimes it comes right to me but I generally can turn them into some kind of slice
Of course that means sometimes it comes right to me but I generally can turn them into some kind of slice
dct693
Semi-Pro
Yes, what I noticed from your video was that the toss could be further to the left. Not tons more, but just a few inches. You could also let the ball drop a bit more before contact. You may be hitting it too high, which makes the racquet path across the ball slice it rather than put top/side spin on it. Other aspects [you are leaning back from the knees, getting some shoulder tilt, staying sideways on] look good to me (for what that's worth).
FiReFTW
Legend
Yes exactly, you hit the nail in the head, thats exactly it!
A few times when I get my toss further to the left and also hit the ball later when it drops more, so my racquet is less extended, I get really good topspin and kick, but alot of times I tend to hit a bit too soon and my toss is a bit too far to the right and I get some topspin slice most of the time, I just need to get this toss and swing timing down so its really consistent and automatic, then its going to be good. But it sounds easier said than done, it takes quite alot of focus and concentration and practice.
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