Which Masters record will be broken In the Future

[Phenomenal]

Assuming the tour stay like it is today which masters tournament record do you think will get broken?
I think many of the masters tournament records will get broken since the masters tour established only since 1990. There are basically big 3, Sampras and Agassi.

Indian Wells: Federer(5), Djokovic(5)
Miami: Agassi(6), Djokovic(6)
Monte-Carlo: Nadal(11)
Madrid: Federer(6)
Rome: Nadal(10)
Canada(Montreal and Toronto): Lendl(6)
Cincinnati: Federer(7)
Shanghai: Djokovic(4), Murray(4)
Paris Masters: Djokovic(7)


Good to see Lendl and Agassi here.

** Lendl's Canada record is the only record before 1990. If you only count from 1990 it is Nadal with 5 Canada titles.
**Hamburg and Madrid(clay) titles are combined. I included Madrid titles into Shangai before 2009. Hence Murray has 4 Shangai one of them is from 2008.
**Most masters has not been played in 2020 and Shangai didn't played from 2020 to 2022.

Nadal and Djokovic also Murray are still active so there is a chance to extend the records.

 

[Zain786]

Indian Wells by Alcaraz as well as Madrid by Alcaraz, Shanghai as well by TBC.

Alcaraz Totals -

Indian Wells - 7
Madrid - 7

 

[nolefam_2024]

Honestly speaking without Nadal around , even Djokovic would have been at 10 Rome titles. All these records are breakable.

MC seems the most unbreakable but probably for all the wrong reasons. Pros will start skipping it or not being able to be fit enough to play it more and more as most players will try slams only approach.

In terms of true difficulty Paris is probably up there. It's indoors and players get tired and indoors is very difficult surface to win it.

This is not as easy to make claims as RG 14 at all. Even the clay ones can be broken.

 

[Poisoned Slice]

Murray Curry never seemed more apt.

 

[Phenomenal]

Nadal and Djokovic also Murray are still active so there is a chance to extend the records.

My takes

Indian Wells: Strongly think this will get broken and also probably by Alcaraz.
Miami: Not sure i think will get caught. Sinner to break if he wins this week?
Monte-Carlo: I don't think so.
Madrid: Yes and probably by Alcaraz
Rome: Very difficult.
Canada(Montreal and Toronto): Probably
Cincinnati: Not sure difficult but not impossible.
Shanghai: Obviously.
Paris Masters: Maybe not.

Looks like none of this is impossible over a long career except Nadal's maybe even Rome is not impossible.

 

[Phenomenal]

Honestly speaking without Nadal around , even Djokovic would have been at 10 Rome titles. All these records are breakable.

MC seems the most unbreakable but probably for all the wrong reasons. Pros will start skipping it or not being able to be fit enough to play it more and more as most players will try slams only approach.

In terms of true difficulty Paris is probably up there. It's indoors and players get tired and indoors is very difficult surface to win it.

This is not as easy to make claims as RG 14 at all. Even the clay ones can be broken.

Nadal won 8 MC in a row lol. It shouldn't get broken hopefully.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Nadal and Djokovic also Murray are still active so there is a chance to extend the records.

My takes

Indian Wells: Strongly think this will get broken and also probably by Alcaraz.
Miami: Not sure i think will get caught. Sinner to break if he wins this week?
Monte-Carlo: I don't think so.
Madrid: Yes and probably by Alcaraz
Rome: Very difficult.
Canada(Montreal and Toronto): Probably
Cincinnati: Not sure difficult but not impossible.
Shanghai: Obviously.
Paris Masters: Maybe not.

Looks like none of this is impossible over a long career except Nadal's maybe even Rome is not impossible.

The thing is these guys, the big 3, they have records at almost everything. So a newcomer will find it difficult to create bigger records even at 1 thing but not all.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Madrid record by Federer is dubious as well. Federer won in Hamburg which was far different than Madrid atmosphere. But he won only 2 times in Madrid and once was again on banned surface.

 

[StrongRule]

It might sound weird, but 11 MC titles for Nadal feels like an underachievement. He was so great there in 2005-2012, but after the 2013 loss he suddenly started bringing some of his worst clay performances at that tournament.

 

[Phenomenal]

Madrid record by Federer is dubious as well. Federer won in Hamburg which was far different than Madrid atmosphere. But he won only 2 times in Madrid and once was again on banned surface.

Yeah i was thinking to mention One of Federer's title was in blue clay.
But considering he dominated before 2008 and Madrid has been played only since 2009 and he won the first one its okay to include no?

 

[Phenomenal]

It might sound weird, but 11 MC titles for Nadal feels like an underachievement. He was so great there in 2005-2012, but after the 2013 loss he suddenly started bringing some of his worst clay performances at that tournament.

I absolutely think the same.

 

[Lauren_Girl']

7 Paris is quite impressive (as much as 7 WTF) given that there is no other indoors Masters. Very few specialists of the surface. Even Sinner (who can be considered Indoors specialist) often struggles in Paris. There are a lot of upsets when Djokovic doesn't win. Lots of unexpected finalists too (Shapovalov, Dimitrov, Krajinovic, Isner,...). I don't think this one will be easy to beat. (The tournament will move from Paris in 2025, but it'll remain the same Masters)

I don't think Cincinnati will be that easy to beat either. Fastest outdoor hard courts out there, only Federer was able to dominate there. And a lot of upsets as well when Djokovic/Federer don't win it... Coric was a big one. Winning 8 Cincinnati won't be an easy task.

Rome and MC, forget it. Even Alcaraz sucks there until now. Can't see anyone winning 11 Rome, let alone 12 Monaco.

Shanghaï should be easily broken. Conditions there are middle fast, no wind and no heat, it's easy to adapt. Even someone like Medvedev could win 4 or 5 (he already has 1). As a Nole fan it's a shame this one was cancelled 3 years in a row. This isn't his most successful Masters but his most prolific one (4 titles in 8 participations). He could've achieved more in China.

Don't know for the others. IW/Miami/Madrid/Toronto can be broken one day but at this point it's still too soon to tell.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Yeah i was thinking to mention One of Federer's title was in blue clay.
But considering he dominated before 2008 and Madrid has been played only since 2009 and he won the first one its okay to include no?

It is ok to include. We just don't know who will be best in traditional Madrid surface.

 

[Phenomenal]

It might sound weird, but 11 MC titles for Nadal feels like an underachievement. He was so great there in 2005-2012, but after the 2013 loss he suddenly started bringing some of his worst clay performances at that tournament.

I think later years it could be related to his physical decline? He wasn't ready or was recovering well got old after 2017. But yeah he lost his unbeatable edge.
In 2020 MC not played In 2022 Nadal was injured without his IW injury would have very good change.

 

[nolefam_2024]

7 Paris is quite impressive (as much as 7 WTF) given that there is no other indoors Masters. Very few specialists of the surface. Even Sinner (who can be considered Indoors specialist) often struggles in Paris. There are a lot of upsets when Djokovic doesn't win. Lots of unexpected finalists too (Shapovalov, Dimitrov, Krajinovic, Isner,...). I don't think this one will be easy to beat. (The tournament will move from Paris in 2025, but it'll remain the same Masters)

I don't think Cincinnati will be that easy to beat either. Fastest outdoor hard courts out there, only Federer was able to dominate there. And a lot of upsets as well when Djokovic/Federer don't win it... Coric was a big one. Winning 8 Cincinnati won't be an easy task.

Rome and MC, forget it. Even Alcaraz sucks there until now. Can't see anyone winning 11 Rome, let alone 12 Monaco.

Shanghaï should be easily broken. Conditions there are middle fast, no wind and no heat, it's easy to adapt. Even someone like Medvedev could win 4 or 5 (he already has 1). As a Nole fan it's a shame this one was cancelled 3 years in a row. This isn't his most successful Masters but his most prolific one (4 titles in 8 participations).

Don't know for the others. IW/Miami/Madrid/Toronto can be broken one day but at this point it's still too soon to tell.

I said Paris would be difficult because of guys like medvedev who can rally endlessly and hit big serve as well. It is very draining surface because you are always recovering from flat balls. Some grinders like RBA Ferrer all had good success at this tournament.

All in all, it's far tougher to be at your best at the end of the year.

 

[StrongRule]

I think later years it could be related to his physical decline? He wasn't ready or was recovering well got old after 2017. But yeah he lost his unbeatable edge.
In 2020 MC not played In 2022 Nadal was injured without his IW injury would have very good change.

Yeah, just so many bad performances. He suddenly started feeling too uncomfortable on the MC surface. Hitting 44 unforced errors against Ferrer in 2014 was shocking. The 2019 semifinal was probably his worst ever match on clay.

 

[Phenomenal]

Yeah, just so many bad performances. He suddenly started feeling too uncomfortable on the MC surface. Hitting 44 unforced errors against Ferrer in 2014 was shocking. The 2019 semifinal was probably his worst ever match on clay.

Tbf yes he reached the final but even in 2013 he was quite worse than earlier. In 2013 he won all the close matches on clay lol. Maybe it was coming.

 

[ghostofMecir]

Honestly speaking without Nadal around , even Djokovic would have been at 10 Rome titles. All these records are breakable.

MC seems the most unbreakable but probably for all the wrong reasons. Pros will start skipping it or not being able to be fit enough to play it more and more as most players will try slams only approach.

In terms of true difficulty Paris is probably up there. It's indoors and players get tired and indoors is very difficult surface to win it.

This is not as easy to make claims as RG 14 at all. Even the clay ones can be broken.

Madrid record by Federer is dubious as well. Federer won in Hamburg which was far different than Madrid atmosphere. But he won only 2 times in Madrid and once was again on banned surface.

It’s ok to give some others some credit every now and then. Not everything has to be about your idol. Monte Carlo is unbreakable regardless of any type of change in the schedule or who plays it or who doesn’t play it. Nobody’s going to win Monte Carlo 12 times. Nobody’s going to break the clay records.

 

[Phenomenal]

Tbf yes he reached the final but even in 2013 he was quite worse than earlier. In 2013 he won all the close matches on clay lol. Maybe it was coming.

I would say there was not much difference between him on clay and HC in 2013. Was even better in some HC tournaments. Probably the closest gap he ever had between clay and HC.

There is 2019 also.

 

[The Blond Blur]

It might sound weird, but 11 MC titles for Nadal feels like an underachievement. He was so great there in 2005-2012, but after the 2013 loss he suddenly started bringing some of his worst clay performances at that tournament.

I mean the guy essentially went undefeated there in his prime lol. And had he won in 13 he would have gone undefeated. The back injury in the AO 14 F ended his prime, then he sucked in 2015-2016. He had a late resurgence in 2017-2018, but realistically he achieved as much as he could have.

 

[GRASScaraz]

Alcaraz will win Paris Masters 10x

 

[Phenomenal]

I mean the guy essentially went undefeated there in his prime lol. And had he won in 13 he would have gone undefeated. The back injury in the AO 14 F ended his prime, then he sucked in 2015-2016. He had a late resurgence in 2017-2018, but realistically he achieved as much as he could have.

He even win in 2016. 2014, 2019 and 2021 maybe was bad. He could have won one more in 2020 and 2022.

 

[The Blond Blur]

He even win in 2016. 2014, 2019 and 2021 maybe was bad. He could have won one more in 2020 and 2022.

Right, 2016 kind of fills the void of 2013. As far as the rest go, he was still reeling in 2014 and in 2019-onward he just got older and had to slowly ramp up his CC preparation to have enough in the tank for RG.

 

[dking68]

Assuming the tour stay like it is today which masters tournament record do you think will get broken?
I think many of the masters tournament records will get broken since the masters tour established only since 1990. There are basically big 3, Sampras and Agassi.

Indian Wells: Federer(5), Djokovic(5)
Miami: Agassi(6), Djokovic(6)
Monte-Carlo: Nadal(11)
Madrid: Federer(6)
Rome: Nadal(10)
Canada(Montreal and Toronto): Lendl(6)
Cincinnati: Federer(7)
Shanghai: Djokovic(4), Murray(4)
Paris Masters: Djokovic(7)


Good to see Lendl and Agassi here.

** Lendl's Canada record is the only record before 1990. If you only count from 1990 it is Nadal with 5 Canada titles.
**Hamburg and Madrid(clay) titles are combined. I included Madrid titles into Shangai before 2009. Hence Murray has 4 Shangai one of them is from 2008.
**Most masters has not been played in 2020 and Shangai didn't played from 2020 to 2022.

Nadal and Djokovic also Murray are still active so there is a chance to extend the records.

Sinner can break the Shanghai record

 

[Phenomenal]

Sinner can break the Shanghai record

Why not Miami Montreal and Paris? Because Shangai easier.) He should break Shangai.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Why not Miami Montreal and Paris? Because Shangai easier.) He should break Shangai.

Sinner has 1 masters title till now. Hasn't made Shanghai finals I think. Why should he break the record? It's not same as alcaraz and Madrid where he has proven track record and it's just a matter of time.

 

[StrongRule]

I mean the guy essentially went undefeated there in his prime lol. And had he won in 13 he would have gone undefeated. The back injury in the AO 14 F ended his prime, then he sucked in 2015-2016. He had a late resurgence in 2017-2018, but realistically he achieved as much as he could have.

My point is that he was absolutely terrible in his losses in 2014, 2019, 2021. Even in 2015 he played a bit better than in these years, though still very bad. It used to be the best clay court for him, but after 2013 he suddenly started feeling very uncomfortable there. He declined in all clay courts after his prime ended, but not as much as in MC.

 

[Phenomenal]

Sinner has 1 masters title till now. Hasn't made Shanghai finals I think. Why should he break the record? It's not same as alcaraz and Madrid where he has proven track record and it's just a matter of time.

I said as a possibility i'm not thinking Sinner to break any records. I said specially for his fans to think about possibilty of breaking Masters. Yeah i shouldn't have said should but whoever the best player on HC from now on should be able to win 4 Shangai probably. It's the least important record also due to reasons.

 

[The Blond Blur]

My point is that he was absolutely terrible in his losses in 2014, 2019, 2021. Even in 2015 he played a bit better than in these years, though still very bad. It used to be the best clay court for him, but after 2013 he suddenly started feeling very uncomfortable there. He declined in all clay courts after his prime ended, but not as much as in MC.

And my point is you can’t say he underachieved at MC lol. If anything he “underachieved” at Rome.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Incredible record at Rome 10-2 in finals. He can't win 11th with strong Djokovic there as well.

 

[StrongRule]

And my point is you can’t say he underachieved at MC lol. If anything he “underachieved” at Rome.

Rome was always more challenging for him. Barely had any easy titles there, and way more vulnerable against big hitters, like 2017 Thiem. Actually, given that he somehow got to 10 titles despite everything, I wouldn't say he underachieved there. If he won even one less, maybe.

 

[Hitman]

Nadal underachieved at a clay event.....

Hold on, let me put down my green tea so I can have a good laugh.

 

[duaneeo]

Federer has 4 Hamburg Masters titles and 3 Madrid titles.

And unless Hamburg is again made a Masters, his record there is safe.

 

[StrongRule]

Nadal underachieved at a clay event.....

Hold on, let me put down my green tea so I can have a good laugh.

He surely had the potential to win more in MC. He suddenly went from being unbeatable there to being extremely vulnerable, including being owned by mugs.

 

[RS]

He surely had the potential to win more in MC. He suddenly went from being unbeatable there to being extremely vulnerable, including being owned by mugs.

He wasn't going to keep that pace up forever though. How many more titles would have thought was realistic?

 

[StrongRule]

He wasn't going to keep that pace up forever though. How many more titles would have thought was realistic?

But slight decline is one thing, his decline was as sharp as possible. He could have won 2-3 more.

 

[The Blond Blur]

Rome was always more challenging for him. Barely had any easy titles there, and way more vulnerable against big hitters, like 2017 Thiem. Actually, given that he somehow got to 10 titles despite everything, I wouldn't say he underachieved there. If he won even one less, maybe.

Nah he definitely should have won 2014 and 2017.

 

[RS]

But slight decline is one thing, his decline was as sharp as possible. He could have won 2-3 more.

14/19 were years Nadal could have had higher expectation. So I could get behind 1 more.

15 and 20-were bound to happen and 13 was a weaker performance but after such a long streak. But alright thanks for the answer.

 

[Hitman]

He surely had the potential to win more in MC. He suddenly went from being unbeatable there to being extremely vulnerable, including being owned by mugs.

He could have lost in 2008, both sets Federer was ahead, and basically choked away leads. He could also have lost in 2009, as Djokovic pushed him super hard on clay that season.

He got a few wins that he could have lost also, so it balances out IMO.

In 2016 he was fortunate with Djokovic, who looked near invincible at that point, losing early, allowing Nadal a great chance to take that title. And of course as you know it is well documented, that 2017 is weak era, so he picked up more titles in 2017 and 2018 because of that.

11 titles is incredible and I think the record will stand the test of time.

 

[StrongRule]

Nah he definitely should have won 2014 and 2017.

How? The match against Thiem wasn't even close.

 

[nolefam_2024]

He could have lost in 2008, both sets Federer was ahead, and basically choked away leads. He could also have lost in 2009, as Djokovic pushed him super hard on clay that season.

He got a few wins that he could have lost also, so it balances out IMO.

In 2016 he was fortunate with Djokovic, who looked near invincible at that point, losing early, allowing Nadal a great chance to take that title. And of course as you know it is well documented, that 2017 is weak era, so he picked up more titles in 2017 and 2018 because of that.

11 titles is incredible and I think the record will stand the test of time.

Can we agree that MC is the most difficult one to break? Nadal has 11 titles. And next best is probably 4/5. I think no one is beating him.

Since 2013 though he was very badly beaten and stopped until 2021 when his body started giving up on himself.

 

[Phenomenal]

Nadal's title gap in Rome and MC doesn't reflect his level of play there. Should be 3 or 2.

14 RG to 10 Rome reflects well looks like exactly how i think.

 

[Hitman]

Can we agree that MC is the most difficult one to break? Nadal has 11 titles. And next best is probably 4/5. I think no one is beating him.

Since 2013 though he was very badly beaten and stopped until 2021 when his body started giving up on himself.

11 titles will be super hard to beat, I don't think it is happening, unless Alcaraz goes nuts in Madrid.

 

[RS]

Good topic.

What do you think of how many RG's Nadal should have had StrongRule?

 

[Phenomenal]

Nadal underachieved at a clay event.....

Hold on, let me put down my green tea so I can have a good laugh.

Player can win 15 title in 1 event and still can be underachieved there is no such thing. Also you or other fans can't understand exactly what we mean here. Since everyone follows their favourite more closely.
Djokovic can be underachieved in 1 event he won much just like we might not understand aswell. Say Miami or Wimbledon despite 6-7 titles.

He could have lost in 2008, both sets Federer was ahead, and basically choked away leads. He could also have lost in 2009, as Djokovic pushed him super hard on clay that season.

He got a few wins that he could have lost also, so it balances out IMO.

In 2016 he was fortunate with Djokovic, who looked near invincible at that point, losing early, allowing Nadal a great chance to take that title. And of course as you know it is well documented, that 2017 is weak era, so he picked up more titles in 2017 and 2018 because of that.

11 titles is incredible and I think the record will stand the test of time.

I strongly disagree here.

 

[StrongRule]

He could have lost in 2008, both sets Federer was ahead, and basically choked away leads. He could also have lost in 2009, as Djokovic pushed him super hard on clay that season.

He got a few wins that he could have lost also, so it balances out IMO.

In 2016 he was fortunate with Djokovic, who looked near invincible at that point, losing early, allowing Nadal a great chance to take that title. And of course as you know it is well documented, that 2017 is weak era, so he picked up more titles in 2017 and 2018 because of that.

11 titles is incredible and I think the record will stand the test of time.

The fact that 7-5 7-5 and 6-3 2-6 6-1 wins are the toughest wins he had there shows how dominant he was in his prime there. Nobody could even imagine that on that same court he will one day hit 44 unforced errors against Ferrer, or play his worst ever clay match against Fognini. I mean, not winning a title where Fognini and Lajovic are the only players left in the draw is probably the biggest missed chance a big 3 player ever had.

 

[Hitman]

Player can win 15 title in 1 event and still can be underachieved there is no such thing. Also you or other fans can't understand exactly what we mean here. Since everyone follows their favourite more closely.
Djokovic can be underachieved in 1 event he won much just like we might not understand aswell. Say Miami or Wimbledon despite 6-7 titles.

I strongly disagree here.

You can disagree all you want, no problem. I still stand by it.

A player can win 15 titles and underachieve...how nice, then I guess we can throw out all the talk about declining due to age.

 

[StrongRule]

Good topic.

What do you think of how many RG's Nadal should have had StrongRule?

If we assume he plays in the same era then at least 15. He was robbed in 2021 because of the DO conditions. And who knows, maybe if the organizers didn't ruin his favorite tournament, maybe he would be able to avoid the long matches he had in 2022 there, and as a result avoided the career ending injury.

 

[Mainad]

Nadal's records in Monte Carlo and Rome look the safest along with Djokovic's record in Paris.

 

[The Blond Blur]

How? The match against Thiem wasn't even close.

He had just beaten Timmy back to back in Barca and Madrid, and would go on to smash him at RG. No reason he shouldn’t have played better in that match.