Nadalgaenger
G.O.A.T.
Federer '06
Federer '09
Djokovic '11
Wawrinka '15
Lendl '84
Wilander '88
Federer '09
Djokovic '11
Wawrinka '15
Lendl '84
Wilander '88
Which of the following represents the highest clay level?
- Thread starter Nadalgaenger
- Start date
Nadalgaenger
G.O.A.T.
My vote goes to Federer 06. I believe that Federer's 2006 Rome final is perhaps the second highest level any player has achieved on clay, and he LOST the match! That is how good Nadal was back then!
Djokovic 2011 was an absolute beast as well. Yes he lost to Federer in the now legendary SF but that match basically came down to two close tiebreaks. Djokovic dominated near prime Nadal in two Masters events earlier that season.
Wawrinka 2015 played perhaps the greatest single match on the list but I don't know how great his overall level was.
Djokovic 2011 was an absolute beast as well. Yes he lost to Federer in the now legendary SF but that match basically came down to two close tiebreaks. Djokovic dominated near prime Nadal in two Masters events earlier that season.
Wawrinka 2015 played perhaps the greatest single match on the list but I don't know how great his overall level was.
Nadalgaenger
G.O.A.T.
Good point. But do you think Nadal was better in 2013 than in 2008?
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Nadalgaenger
G.O.A.T.
Sorry folks but the man wearing white here would annihilate Wilander or Lendl on clay:
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
For me, Nadal 2013 FO SF (5th) was the highest level I've seen.
Krish872007
Talk Tennis Guru
Djoko2011 and Fed2006 could actually hit a series of winners against good versions of Nadal on clay - both very good. It's much harder to compare them to Lendl/Wilander as that's a different era.
vanioMan
Legend
InsideOut900
Legend
First postThat would be painful for Novak
I still believe that big hitting/slow version of Nadal(2010-2013) is much more harmful to Novak. The brick wall/rabbit version was there to frustrate peak Federer,don't know about Djokovic,who, at a blind guess, is consistent enough to stay in long rallies with this Nadal.
Krish872007
Talk Tennis Guru
First post
Welcome - you could have a point there, though Rafa was aggressive when he needed to be in the 2005-2010 years on clay, and due to his incredible speed round the court even Novak would struggle to hit winners all the time so he'd have to perpetually out-rally the Spaniard
xFedal
Legend
Which version of Ultron 06 Rafa at Rome vs Ultron 11. Best of 5 Rome 2006 Match. UlTrOn In 4.I'd love to see 2006 Rafa vs Ultron
N
nowhereman
Guest
Are you talking about clay overall or just at the French? Because Wawrinka doesn't belong on this list if you're talking about all clay tournaments. He only got his sh*t together at RG, he was a dud for the rest of the clay season.
As for the question, I'm gonna say Djoko 2011. I think the 2 back-to-back wins over Nadal put him above anyone else, even though he lost to Fed at RG.
As for the question, I'm gonna say Djoko 2011. I think the 2 back-to-back wins over Nadal put him above anyone else, even though he lost to Fed at RG.
InsideOut900
Legend
My point would be that Nadal OVERPOWERED Djokovic with his forehand during their encounters in 2012-2014.This won't happen with 2006 Nadal that often unless Djok hits most of his balls in the service box. Concerning Nadal's movement,there is a point where no one could chase a particular ball. Perfect build-up points combined with some god-alike defence would do the job.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Must be awesome Vodka.
Garhi Shot First
Hall of Fame
I agree with you that Stan's 2015 doesn't belong in a list of all-time great clay seasons, but I would add that he wasn't a dud at Rome until the SF. He was finding some form there and played a great match vs Nadal in the QF. He was great all through RG, but I don't think one tournament out-weighs other great seasons.
I'd have to vote for Djokovic 2011, too. Fed 2006 is close. I didn't see those clay seasons by Lendl or Wilander, though, so I might be discounting them unfairly.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Rafa wasn't at his peak yet in '06. You can look at the highlights that someone posted here and you can see his rotation on the ball in that Federer match is not as extreme. Also, he's pretty defensive. To be honest, I'm not that impressed and have seen him play much better. Rafa 2008-2013 was stronger.
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BVSlam
Professional
Had to think, but I went with Djoko 2011 in the end. He played amazing tennis in Madrid and Rome and played great at RG in general, despite losing to Fed playing one of his best clay matches probably. That was a fantastic affaire with awesome striking, just like Fed-Nadal Rome 2006 was (maybe that even more so considering how long their match was). Fed would definitely have taken another Hamburg title that year had he (and Rafa) not been completely drained from that Rome final, pretty confident about that considering his level. But, as an overall clay season, I feel Fed played a few more sliiightly weaker matches than Djokovic and in the end still lost all his matches to Rafa, whereas Djokovic racked up two Masters titles straight-setting Rafa both times.
Very close anyway, and in terms of playing level they're pretty clearly above Fed '09 and Stan '15 clay seasons...can't comment on Lendl and Wilander since I had yet to be born during those clay seasons.
Very close anyway, and in terms of playing level they're pretty clearly above Fed '09 and Stan '15 clay seasons...can't comment on Lendl and Wilander since I had yet to be born during those clay seasons.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
The Mummy isn't beating the version of Nadal that had limitless stamina and had an 81 match winning streak on clay, sorry. The only evidence to the contrary is speculation.
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
You kinda forgot about Nadal.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Having just watched(for the 100th time 
) highlights of the 2011 Rome final, I'd have to go with Djokovic 2011. Novak was like a man possessed in that match. 
) highlights of the 2011 Rome final, I'd have to go with Djokovic 2011. Novak was like a man possessed in that match.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
I didn't even comment on Djokovic beating him. I'm guessing that is your nickname for Djokovic, the mummy. Nadal is without a doubt the best on clay in history but I said Nadal wasn't at his peak yet and he wasn't. The 81 match clay winning streak was impressive but it was in 2005-2007 and there was no one to challenge him, and certainly not Federer who folds to him like a cheap tent 7 times out of 10. Who has beaten Nadal the most on the clay surface? I rest my case. Djokovic is not Federer and can beat him anywhere and has. Let's not forget about 2011.
abmk
Bionic Poster
nadal of 06-10 > nadal of 11, 13 on clay quite clearly
quit the over-rating of nadal on clay in 11 and 13 just to boost up djokovic
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Lies. Nadal played one of his greatest matches ever in the 2013 RG SF. Try again. The only reason you are not rating them where they need to be is because Djokovic was beating him routinely on clay and almost beat him at RG, something Federer can only dream about.
abmk
Bionic Poster
not even close ...he only played his best after being a break down in the 5th when he started hitting winners everywhere ...otherwise it was a very good match from nadal, but nothing you didn't see in 06 and 07 ........
he was quite clearly better in rome 2006 F for instance ....and federer took him closer there than Novak did in 13 RG SF
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Whatever makes you feel better. The reality is that Djokovic is much much tougher opponent for Nadal. Nadal says he enjoys playing Federer the most. Why do you think that is? Because he wins 70% of the matches. Federer has only beaten him twice on clay and 9-7 in the 5th is closer than than 2006 Rome, sorry.
abmk
Bionic Poster
djoko is a tougher opponent for nadal than federer is ..... that doesn't have anything to with nadal's best tennis on clay being 2006-10 &12 and 11 & 13 being worse than those ....
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
It has a lot to do with it because you think because he beating Federer all that time, then he was playing better when he wasn't. I love the way Federer fans cherry pick years to fit their agenda. Nadal hit his peak in 2008 and his best on clay was 2008 RG and nothing else comes close. He was not considerably worse in 2011 and 2013 just because he was losing to Djokovic. Djokovic is only player who can beat him on any surface even when he's on, clay or otherwise.
abmk
Bionic Poster
no, its because he was struggling with players he shouldn't have been struggling with in 11 and 13 and not because just he lost to djokovic in those years ...in general his level was lower .....
if we're taking a single year, 08 was his best, but I was talking about a more extended period ..
djoko can beat him on any surface except clay when he is on ..if nadal is on, djoko loses to him on clay ..
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cockneyDjoker
Hall of Fame
Djokovic 2011 and it's not even close.
Highest level of grinding maybe.
Watch the point starting at 2:50 or so in the Rome 2006 video above. Djokovic doesn't win points like that.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Are you intimating that Novak's never beaten a well playing Nadal on clay before abmk?
Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
Federer 2006. Back then Federer didn't fold to Nadal at all. Heck! Fed even said it was wrong to call Nadal a better player on clay than him. That's bow confident or arrogant he was even against Nadal. And he was very tough to beat for Rafa even on clay. It used to take great mental strength, athleticism, and shot making to somehow go past the Fed Express for Rafa. Yes, on clay too. And Nadal back then hadn't had a lot of injuries and was fearless and ruthless.
In 2013 he lost sets to guys he would have straight setted in 2006. 2006 Nadal wouldn't doubt himself and choke in 4th set like 2013 Nadal did. Only when he was on the verge of losing the match from a winning position did he start to play like before, with no fear.
In 2013 he lost sets to guys he would have straight setted in 2006. 2006 Nadal wouldn't doubt himself and choke in 4th set like 2013 Nadal did. Only when he was on the verge of losing the match from a winning position did he start to play like before, with no fear.
Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
When Nadal doubts himself in a match, he hesitates to go for his shots and feeds his opponent with short balls. Then even a Fognini can look the best player on the planet against Nadal.
Djokovic 2011 was great but Federer 2011 beat him. Federer 2006 would be too tough a challenge for Djokovic 2011.
Djokovic 2011 was great but Federer 2011 beat him. Federer 2006 would be too tough a challenge for Djokovic 2011.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
A lot of it is to do with matchups. As strange as it sounds, I actually think Federer of 2006 would've been a tougher opponent for Djokovic 2011 on clay than Nadal of 2006. For all the ruthlessness and lack of fear you talk about, I feel that Nadal back then played more defensively than he has in recent years and that Novak's aggressiveness(which really was ruthless in 2011) would've pierced through Rafa's defences slightly more than even Roger could manage. Needless to say, the Spaniard would also be making more errors as Novak's defense > Federer's. It's just a shame we'll never get to see these matches play out!
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cockneyDjoker
Hall of Fame
Maybe not, but he can't hit winners like that for a whole match, not even in his prime
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Lol at these fairy tales of Ultron beating peak Rafa on clay. The trolls are really bored tonight.
Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
Lol at these fairy tales of Ultron beating peak Rafa on clay. The trolls are really bored tonight.
Most Djokovic fans are probably new to tennis. They most probably never watched Rafael Capri pants Nadal on clay.
Someday fans of a Coric or Chung would claim their idol would be too much for Novak 2011 or 2015 at Melbourne Park
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Most Djokovic fans are probably new to tennis. They most probably never watched Rafael Capri pants Nadal on clay.
Someday fans of a Coric or Chung would claim their idol would be too much for Novak 2011 or 2015 at Melbourne Park
This seems to be what it is tbh. Seriously can just laugh at the thought of Djokovic's face trying to beat that version of Nadal.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
It all depends which version of Nadal Capri pants you're talking about Backspin.Most Djokovic fans are probably new to tennis. They most probably never watched Rafael Capri pants Nadal on clay.
Someday fans of a Coric or Chung would claim their idol would be too much for Novak 2011 or 2015 at Melbourne Park
Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
This seems to be what it is tbh. Seriously can just laugh at the thought of Djokovic's face trying to beat that version of Nadal.
I guess they look at Nadal of 2015 and think how tough would it really be to beat this guy at his best on clay. Nadal of 2006-2008 would torture Djoko fanboys so much haha.
abmk
Bionic Poster
How can Federer 2006 be leading the poll when he didn't win a single clay event? LOL
ok, lets take fed 09 than - won RG and one masters - madrid
clearly over djoko of any year- since djoko has not won won RG ...
Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
It all depends which version of Nadal Capri pants you're talking about Backspin.
I meant the 2005-2008 version.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
I meant the version of the 2005-2008 version.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
BlackSilver
Semi-Pro
No, he didn't.
Captain Grant
Semi-Pro
Peak Nadal was Djoko's 2011 pigeon even on clay and it took greatest servebotting Fed's performance ever to take out Novak at FO.
Novak 2011 vs Rafa 2011 at FO would have been just as painful as their RG 2015 encounter.
Novak 2011 vs Rafa 2011 at FO would have been just as painful as their RG 2015 encounter.
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