Which one-sided rivalries at a slam would have changed history the most if they'd been the other way round or more even?
- Thread starter GuyForget
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bluetrain4
G.O.A.T.
Very small (in terms of overall matches), but Seles-Sabatini at the French Open. Seles was 2-0 vs. Sabatini at the French (1991 SF and 1992 SF), both times winning shortly after Sabatini beat her in the final of the 1991 and 1992 Italian Opens. If that's reversed, Seles is still basically in the same tier of ATG with 7 instead of 9 Slams (though obviously it's always pure speculation that everything else would magically remain exactly the same; but for the sake of argument), BUT Sabatini possibly isn't a one-Slam wonder which is big - possibly because she lost to Seles in the SFs, not the final, and would still have to beat ASV (1991) and/or Graf (1992) in the finals. While not easy, it was definitely doable.
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Djokovic-Murray at the Australian Open seems like a strong contender. Djokovic was 5-0 against Murray in four finals and a SF (with Djokovic going on to win the final).
If we flip those results, Djokovic goes from 24 Majors to 19 Majors and is now behind Nadal and Federer, who had 22 and 20 Majors. That's a pretty seismic shift toward the top of the GOAT leaderboard.
Meanwhile, Murray goes from 3 Majors to 7 or 8 Majors (depending on whether we think he beats Nadal in the 2012 final). Murray goes from being a non-ATG at around the same level of Courier to an ATG at around the same level of Wilander (and maybe higher).
If we flip those results, Djokovic goes from 24 Majors to 19 Majors and is now behind Nadal and Federer, who had 22 and 20 Majors. That's a pretty seismic shift toward the top of the GOAT leaderboard.
Meanwhile, Murray goes from 3 Majors to 7 or 8 Majors (depending on whether we think he beats Nadal in the 2012 final). Murray goes from being a non-ATG at around the same level of Courier to an ATG at around the same level of Wilander (and maybe higher).
Mustard
Bionic Poster
Seles talked a bit about the 1992 French Open semi final in her autobiography. Sabatini was 4-2 up in the third set, and Seles went into big attack mode to win the next 4 games.
The Aceserver
Rookie
Fedal FO.
pierceforehands
Rookie
If Seles had lost the 91 RG title I highly doubt she has the confidence to hold off Capriati in that famous 91 US Open semi final, part of which came from the confidence of being the dominant player, after a surging and confident Capriati served for the match twice, and being up 30-15 the 2nd time. And if she loses both the 91 and 92 RG titles, I think it is more questionable she is not more affected by being trounced badly in the 92 Wimbledon final (if she still makes it at all) to come back and win the 92 US Open and especialy the 93 Australian Open where she had the confidence to come back vs a fairly in form Graf.
As for Sabatini I think it gives her the confidence to almost for sure serve out the 91 Wimbledon final vs Graf now, and possibly win some other slams, but at minimum be a 4 slams now- 90 US Open, 91 French, 91 Wimbledon, 92 French. I assume she for sure wins the 91 FO final vs Sanchez. The 92 FO final vs Graf is less of a sure call, but if I am correct in her now winning the 91 Wimledon final she served for twice vs Graf, she would now be on a 7 or 8 match win streak vs Graf, and probably takes it.
Everything has a buttefly effect in tennis.
pierceforehands
Rookie
Sabatini has a 3-15 slam semi final record, by far the worst one in history. I feel bad for her, as that is a pretty embarassing stat. Reaching 18 slam semis and winning only 1 is not a good look for anyone.
Racquet_smash
Professional
Federer Djokovic at Wimbledon is one sided?
Mustard
Bionic Poster
3-1 to Djokovic, at Federer's strongest major. Two of the matches that Djokovic won (2014 final, 2019 final) were winnable for Federer.
GuyForget
Semi-Pro
won 1 or 3 of the 18? either way, Seles in a completely different league, one can only imagine how much she would have won, she wouldn't have even been challenged much off grass until 1997
Racquet_smash
Professional
Fed was 1 point away from making it 2-2. That's not a one sided rivalry lol
mike danny
Bionic Poster
1. 2014 wasn't really winnable. Fed was lucky to push it to 5.
2. The fact that they never played on grass during Fed's prime absolutely has to be considered.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
I think OP has a strong dislike for Fed as this isn't the first time he does something like this. And the fact that he didn't even add Fedal at Wimb to his list supports my argument.
Racquet_smash
Professional
Neither can be considered one sided rivalries. Maybe if they went 4-0.
Mustard
Bionic Poster
After the first set, I'd have laid money on Federer winning the match. Federer was also close to winning in the fifth set.
MissileBackHand99
Semi-Pro
If Fed converts ONE of those 40-15 match points, it's 2-2, and total titles are Fed 9 and Novak 6. Amazing how a career narrative at a Slam can change on one or two points
But also, Novak got cakewalk Finals vs Kyrgios and a Kevin Anderson coming off a 26-24 5th set SF vs Isner. So at least in total Wimby titles, the Fed 8 to Novak 7 is a bit deceptive
pierceforehands
Rookie
Not sure it changes much. Djokovic still has the slam record, Federer still does not, and Federer will always be above Djokovic at Wimbledon, as I see almost no chance Djokovic is winning another Wimbledon.
I think if Hana wins that 1981 Wimbledon final against Evert, it might have made a huge difference to Hana and tennis. She had beaten Evert at RG a month earlier ( Evert was not someone who had a habit of losing twice in a row and that was Hana's first problem in this match!) and if she followed that up with her first Wimbledon title, she takes that confidence forward into the US OPen and Aussie QFs of 1981 where she lost to Chris Evert. That consecutive second slam win might have carried her to threaten to take over the #3 ranking and usurp a slumping Martina as preeminent S/V threat on the tour - at least for awhile. I think that confidence might translate into 1982, 1983, and 1984 ( remember Austin drops out ). Of course Hana still is among the more accident prone women on the tour, but I see her as more motivated, more willing to learn from Stove at an earlier age etc. Martina and Evert's duopoly is threatened long before 1985.
As history shows, that was one of the worst finals I ever saw. Its not that Evert did much worthy to discuss, Hana played so atrociously, Chris barely had to hit three balls in a row. Hana was so nervous, so intimated by the occasion, Evert basically walked away with that plate. She did not need any anti-perspirant.
That Wimbledon final loss began a streak of Evert wins that went 10 matches over three years. Evert only lost one set in the next 20 sets these two played! It was not until early in 1985 that Mandlikova broke that streak against Chris.
As history shows, that was one of the worst finals I ever saw. Its not that Evert did much worthy to discuss, Hana played so atrociously, Chris barely had to hit three balls in a row. Hana was so nervous, so intimated by the occasion, Evert basically walked away with that plate. She did not need any anti-perspirant.
That Wimbledon final loss began a streak of Evert wins that went 10 matches over three years. Evert only lost one set in the next 20 sets these two played! It was not until early in 1985 that Mandlikova broke that streak against Chris.
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