Which poly cross for gut?

shaysrebelII

Professional
Howdy all,

I'm going to try a gut/poly hybrid in my RF97A and wanted your input for which poly cross I should use. The gut I'll be using is Pacific Tough Gut 1.25, which I've never used before. Here are the cross options:

-Solinco Outlast 16
-YPTP 16L
-SPPP
-some version of tour bite (I've got normal, soft and diamond rough lying around, in all sorts of gauges)

I'm looking for good tension maintenance more than anything else. I'd prefer your opinion on the above choices, but if there's an option you really like that I didn't list, I'd like to hear about it at least (I just have to go through my existing string before I can buy more in good conscience).

What are your thoughts?
 

Aretium

Hall of Fame
Check out the Gut/Poly thread.

Basically
Outlast
Head Hawk
Kirsch Max power

All have excellent tension maintenance. My fav is hawk.
 
I haven't tried outlast yet. SPPP and YPTP both work very well, although a little muted. If tension maintenance is your priority consider Luxilon 4G as well. It does not have outrageous bite or spin, but the control and tension stability are top notch.
 

SpinToWin

Talk Tennis Guru
If tension maintenance is your main priority then either 4G or Max Power will be your ticket. I personally would rather recommend Max Power as it doesn't dent as easily (better and more consistent performance IME) and it feels less stiff.
 

Noisy Ninja

Semi-Pro
Luxilon 4G works really well. As some previous posters have stated, it retains tension very well for a poly and that makes for a hybrid stringbed that holds tension exceptionally well.
The other reason for using 4G is that it adds some crispness to the setup and offsets the tendency for natural gut to feel too soft/mushy.
 

o0lunatik

Professional
I haven't tried outlast yet. SPPP and YPTP both work very well, although a little muted. If tension maintenance is your priority consider Luxilon 4G as well. It does not have outrageous bite or spin, but the control and tension stability are top notch.

My vote is for SPPP & YPTP as well. I played many sets with SPPP prior. Now, I hybrid gut with Big Hitter Blue or Pro Red Code, b/c they are softer, and I get better pocketing and better spin. Cost of gut isn't a concern, b/c I figured a way to string Gut in 10 mains and rest poly. So I get 3 stringing of gut/poly per package. I recall there were previous posts explaining this as well. There's no difference in playing and physical characteristics this way in my opinion.
 
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fero23

New User
nice post..!
still listening.
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KYHacker

Professional
MY vote is for Prince Tour XC. Super slippery and low-powered. Great cross for me in my customized Savage Bananas.
 

shaysrebelII

Professional
Great responses, all. Since part of the goal of this is to save money, and I already have the specific strings I mentioned, would you mind ranking just those? I'd love to try the different options you brought to the table, but I can't exactly justify spending more on strings right now.
 

dogdog49

New User
Why is Wilson Revolve never mentioned as a great possible cross for gut. It's supposedly not just a repackaging of Ripspin, but is made with an entirely new form of polyester - UHMWPE - that's not a coating, but is self lubricating for the life of the string. I haven't tried it, but I'm certainly curious if anyone out there has. It's also reasonably priced. Below is the Wikipedia description of UHMWPE.

"UHMWPE has extremely low moisture absorption and a very low coefficient of friction; is self-lubricating; and is highly resistant to abrasion, in some forms being 15 times more resistant to abrasion than carbon steel. Its coefficient of friction is significantly lower than that of nylon and acetal, and is comparable to that of polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE, Teflon), but UHMWPE has better abrasion resistance than PTFE"
 

MixedMaster

Semi-Pro
Why is Wilson Revolve never mentioned as a great possible cross for gut. It's supposedly not just a repackaging of Ripspin, but is made with an entirely new form of polyester - UHMWPE - that's not a coating, but is self lubricating for the life of the string. I haven't tried it, but I'm certainly curious if anyone out there has. It's also reasonably priced. Below is the Wikipedia description of UHMWPE.

"UHMWPE has extremely low moisture absorption and a very low coefficient of friction; is self-lubricating; and is highly resistant to abrasion, in some forms being 15 times more resistant to abrasion than carbon steel. Its coefficient of friction is significantly lower than that of nylon and acetal, and is comparable to that of polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE, Teflon), but UHMWPE has better abrasion resistance than PTFE"

I found Revolve to be a string I wasn't comfortable with in a full bed, but thought I'd really like it as a cross with gut. I haven't tried in the crosses yet, but plan to this spring. If anyone has tried it in the crosses yet, I'd love to hear about it.
 

Muppet

Legend
Howdy all,

I'm going to try a gut/poly hybrid in my RF97A and wanted your input for which poly cross I should use. The gut I'll be using is Pacific Tough Gut 1.25, which I've never used before. Here are the cross options:

-Solinco Outlast 16
-YPTP 16L
-SPPP
-some version of tour bite (I've got normal, soft and diamond rough lying around, in all sorts of gauges)

I'm looking for good tension maintenance more than anything else. I'd prefer your opinion on the above choices, but if there's an option you really like that I didn't list, I'd like to hear about it at least (I just have to go through my existing string before I can buy more in good conscience).

What are your thoughts?

If you haven't gotten your Tough Gut 1.25 yet, I'd recommend going with the 16g. In a gut/poly setup, it will be more durable and have better control if the soft string is the same gauge or thicker. Also, I've read on this board that Tough Gut kinks easily. 16g will be easier to deal with.
 

shaysrebelII

Professional
If you haven't gotten your Tough Gut 1.25 yet, I'd recommend going with the 16g. In a gut/poly setup, it will be more durable and have better control if the soft string is the same gauge or thicker. Also, I've read on this board that Tough Gut kinks easily. 16g will be easier to deal with.

Already got it, unfortunately. But I'll keep that in mind for when I string it, which will probably be later today. I'm thinking Outlast for this time, and I can just cycle through the other choices and the board's recommendations as needed.
 

Perrotoro

New User
Howdy all,

I'm going to try a gut/poly hybrid in my RF97A and wanted your input for which poly cross I should use. The gut I'll be using is Pacific Tough Gut 1.25, which I've never used before. Here are the cross options:

-Solinco Outlast 16
-YPTP 16L
-SPPP
-some version of tour bite (I've got normal, soft and diamond rough lying around, in all sorts of gauges)

Spend the money and get the slippery Prince XC - you won't get much spring back of the gut with the choices listed. Otherwise maybe yptp
 

KaiserW

Hall of Fame
I would go with YPTP. It is easy on the arm, nice consistent response, and is playable until the gut snaps. Yes it won't give as much spin as some crosses but I find it gives enough spin. I also feel like I can drive a flatter ball with this cross versus other crosses that produce more spin. So if spin is not your main concern I would give it a try.
 
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shaysrebelII

Professional
I would go with YPTP. It is easy on the arm, nice consistent response, and is playable until the gut snaps. Yes it won't give as much spin as some crosses but I find it gives enough spin. I also feel like I can drive a flatter ball with this cross versus other crosses that produce more spin. So if spin is not your main concern I would give it a try.

I actually already strung it with Outlast, but I wish I'd seen this - it sounds right up my alley. Oh well. Next time.
 

ricardo

Hall of Fame
My vote is for SPPP & YPTP as well. I played many sets with SPPP prior. Now, I hybrid gut with Big Hitter Blue or Pro Red Code, b/c they are softer, and I get better pocketing and better spin. Cost of gut isn't a concern, b/c I figured a way to string Gut in 10 mains and rest poly. So I get 3 stringing of gut/poly per package. I recall there were previous posts explaining this as well. There's no difference in playing and physical characteristics this way in my opinion.

b/c I figured a way to string Gut in 10 mains and rest poly.

I am interested on how you do it, especially the tie-offs.

Thank you in advance..
 

scotus

G.O.A.T.
Prince Beast XP 16 is a must try.

I have tried a whole bunch of polys in the crosses, but Beast is still my favorite. Feel is great and playability lasts and lasts.
 

eelhc

Hall of Fame
There was a thread a while back on getting 3 sets of mains out of a single 40ft package of natural gut (16M pattern, 98 or smaller head size). Depending on the racquet and tension, 12 mains are possible with a ~13'4" of string (1/3 of 40').

It's not that hard actually. Most racquets have 4 tie off locations. One just has to look at the racquet and think out the pattern. The 2-3 outside mains and the crosses are done with the same string.
 

anubis

Hall of Fame
There really is no debate: one single answer is the best: Solinco Outlast. It's the slickest, non-shaped poly out there. Lowest coeficient of friction of all poly strings that aren't shaped. I say "aren't shaped" because if the string is hexagonal or square or whatever, it might cut into the gut and make it break prematurely. Outlast is perfectly round, so it won't break the gut prematurely.

In any string setup, in order to maximize topspin, you must make sure the cross strings have the lowest coeficient of friction possible to ensure maximum string movement and return to center. Solinco outlast is the best.

Note: Outlast is not the best poly string on the market. i am a HUGE Solinco fanboy, seeing as I'm sponsored by them, carry all their strings and use them exclusively when stringing customers' frames. There are better strings out there than outlast in a full bed configuration. However, for hybrids, Outlast is the single best cross string for any and all applications -- and I'll put $100 bet on that every day of the week, and twice on Sunday. That's how much I believe in that string.
 

SpinToWin

Talk Tennis Guru
There really is no debate: one single answer is the best: Solinco Outlast. It's the slickest, non-shaped poly out there. Lowest coeficient of friction of all poly strings that aren't shaped. I say "aren't shaped" because if the string is hexagonal or square or whatever, it might cut into the gut and make it break prematurely. Outlast is perfectly round, so it won't break the gut prematurely.

In any string setup, in order to maximize topspin, you must make sure the cross strings have the lowest coeficient of friction possible to ensure maximum string movement and return to center. Solinco outlast is the best.

Note: Outlast is not the best poly string on the market. i am a HUGE Solinco fanboy, seeing as I'm sponsored by them, carry all their strings and use them exclusively when stringing customers' frames. There are better strings out there than outlast in a full bed configuration. However, for hybrids, Outlast is the single best cross string for any and all applications -- and I'll put $100 bet on that every day of the week, and twice on Sunday. That's how much I believe in that string.

Give me 100$, Wilson Revolve is slicker (and it also has better tension maintenance) ;)

In all seriousness, Outlast is a great cross but it is not "the best" because that does not exist. Based on a person's preferences it could be, but others might not like it. I personally find Outlast's tension maintenance to be too poor.
 

anubis

Hall of Fame
Give me 100$, Wilson Revolve is slicker (and it also has better tension maintenance) ;)

In all seriousness, Outlast is a great cross but it is not "the best" because that does not exist. Based on a person's preferences it could be, but others might not like it. I personally find Outlast's tension maintenance to be too poor.

Wow, I haven't check the TWU friction rankings in a couple of months: that's what I get for being lazy I guess! It's too bad it doesn't come in 16g, since I never mix gauges when hybriding with gut. I think 17g would slice through 16g gut pretty quickly. But it is nice seeing that Wilson has developed a really slick poly. Looks soft too, so it shouldn't be too jarring on the arm.

As to the tension loss, I see it loses 5 lbs less than Outlast, which is nice. However, I think in the hands of a talented stringer, you can mitigate the tension loss slightly by ensuring proper clamping and tie-off techniques.

It's too bad Luxilon 4G is so darn sticky. If it was as smooth as Outlast or Revolve, then I would say 4G would be the best hybrid string.
 

SpinToWin

Talk Tennis Guru
Wow, I haven't check the TWU friction rankings in a couple of months: that's what I get for being lazy I guess! It's too bad it doesn't come in 16g, since I never mix gauges when hybriding with gut. I think 17g would slice through 16g gut pretty quickly. But it is nice seeing that Wilson has developed a really slick poly. Looks soft too, so it shouldn't be too jarring on the arm.

As to the tension loss, I see it loses 5 lbs less than Outlast, which is nice. However, I think in the hands of a talented stringer, you can mitigate the tension loss slightly by ensuring proper clamping and tie-off techniques.

It's too bad Luxilon 4G is so darn sticky. If it was as smooth as Outlast or Revolve, then I would say 4G would be the best hybrid string.

Yeah 4G dents so fast it's like you're stringing up your crosses with already notched strings haha

Revolve does come in 16 and 15G as far as I know, those gauges merely aren't in the TWU database/they haven't been tested yet (perhaps they don't intend to test the thicker gauges like with some other strings).

A good stringer surely can minimise the tension loss, perhaps with a good pre stretch, but I am not a fan of pre stretching polys, as it makes them noticeably stiffer IMO. For some reason I prefer the response of un-stretched poly.

Anyways, I'll be testing Revolve sometime soon, so have a look in the gut/poly thread from time to time if you're interested ;)
 

shaysrebelII

Professional
There really is no debate: one single answer is the best: Solinco Outlast. It's the slickest, non-shaped poly out there. Lowest coeficient of friction of all poly strings that aren't shaped. I say "aren't shaped" because if the string is hexagonal or square or whatever, it might cut into the gut and make it break prematurely. Outlast is perfectly round, so it won't break the gut prematurely.

In any string setup, in order to maximize topspin, you must make sure the cross strings have the lowest coeficient of friction possible to ensure maximum string movement and return to center. Solinco outlast is the best.

Note: Outlast is not the best poly string on the market. i am a HUGE Solinco fanboy, seeing as I'm sponsored by them, carry all their strings and use them exclusively when stringing customers' frames. There are better strings out there than outlast in a full bed configuration. However, for hybrids, Outlast is the single best cross string for any and all applications -- and I'll put $100 bet on that every day of the week, and twice on Sunday. That's how much I believe in that string.

Bold statements. How does Outlast 17 compare to Outlast 16? I'm using 16 now but I'm not a string breaker, and I'm curious about going thinner.
 

anubis

Hall of Fame
Bold statements. How does Outlast 17 compare to Outlast 16? I'm using 16 now but I'm not a string breaker, and I'm curious about going thinner.

Interesting you mention that: I've been testing Outlast 17 lately, and I don't like it. Great spin but way stiffer than 16. So much so that it hurts my arm, even at 48 lbs. 16g is more comfortable.

If you don't have a sensitive arm, then you will get more spin. Aside from the pain, it is a good string.

But I wouldn't use 17 for hybriding, unless your mains are another type of poly (such as barb wire).
 

shaysrebelII

Professional
Interesting you mention that: I've been testing Outlast 17 lately, and I don't like it. Great spin but way stiffer than 16. So much so that it hurts my arm, even at 48 lbs. 16g is more comfortable.

If you don't have a sensitive arm, then you will get more spin. Aside from the pain, it is a good string.

But I wouldn't use 17 for hybriding, unless your mains are another type of poly (such as barb wire).

Noted. Thanks for your feedback. How about Outlast 16L? Ever used it?
 

anubis

Hall of Fame
Noted. Thanks for your feedback. How about Outlast 16L? Ever used it?

No, never used 16L outlast. Just 16 and 17. I love 16, it is fantastic. It's one of those strings where if I had no other string to choose from, you can throw that in a racquet for me and I can do whatever I need to do without issue.

Can't say that about many other strings in my situation, especially given the price.
 

EasternRocks

Hall of Fame
How did you like Outlast in the cross? I might throw 16 Outlast in the crosses with gut mains.

Want to choose 1 out of the 3 as my new go-to-poly cross: Max Power, Tour Bite, Outlast. All 3 are 16 gauge to keep tension maintenance a priority.

I'll test all 3 at 55/52.
 
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