Which poly to hybrid with natural gut?

RF_PRO_STAFF

RF_PRO_STAFF

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I'm seriously considering trying natural gut again as the last time was when I was about 12 years old. I have no memory of the feel.

The natural gut I would get is Babolat VS Touch 1.25 (which is apparently VS Team?) and get it strung on the mains in one of my VCORE 95 rackets. I usually have Volk Cyclone Tour 1.20 in those but also have had Yonex PTP in them.
As you'll probably notice, VCT is a shaped/twisted string, great for i.a. spin potential, which would not work well with natural gut as it will shred the gut.

I'm looking for advice on which poly to put in the crosses. I can definitely deal with less spin potential than full bed VCT so I was thinking of a round poly to also enhance snapback. I'm between 4.5 and 5.0 currently. I hit firm balls with decent spin. I love touch shots, being at the net, being creative on the court and use my forehand and volleys as my biggest weapons. I hardly ever break poly strings before I restring.
I was thinking of 1.25mm or 1.20mm YPTP as I already have that in my collection.

Do you have any other recommendations for a great poly to hybrid with natural gut? Long playability, good spin potential for a poly and at least somewhat comfortable would be great. When I play a full bed of poly, I use a soft poly at lower tensions between 44 and 50 lbs, depending on the factors.
Obvious/generic recommendations are fine because I want to experience the best of both worlds for once.
 
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If you think you’ll break the gut quickly within 5-10 hours, then string with a round poly. ALU Power is great for about 5-7 hours before it goes dead and feels harsh. Others like PTP, Ghostwire etc. which might last a few more hours.

If you don’t break strings quickly, you could try hybriding VCT as you like it already. VCT goes dead in 10-12 hours for me and if you can make the gut last till then, it is a good combo. I play with VS/HyperG or VS/HyperG Soft and it lasts about 15 hours on average before I break the gut - this is fine with me as the poly starts feeling harsh after 12-15 hours anyway and I would probably cut it out soon if I didn’t break the gut. I string at 47/44 lbs on a Pure Strike Tour.
 
Thanks for the replies guys.

socallefty said:
If you think you’ll break the gut quickly within 5-10 hours, then string with a round poly. ALU Power is great for about 5-7 hours before it goes dead and feels harsh. Others like PTP, Ghostwire etc. which might last a few more hours.

If you don’t break strings quickly, you could try hybriding VCT as you like it already. VCT goes dead in 10-12 hours for me and if you can make the gut last till then, it is a good combo. I play with VS/HyperG or VS/HyperG Soft and it lasts about 15 hours on average before I break the gut - this is fine with me as the poly starts feeling harsh after 12-15 hours anyway and I would probably cut it out soon if I didn’t break the gut. I string at 47/44 lbs on a Pure Strike Tour.
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I really don't know yet if I would break the gut quickly but I'd rather not take the risk with a shaped poly. Natural gut is expensive enough for me. I think I'll just go with 1.20 or 1.25 YPTP, I could get great spin with a full bed of that and for me it doesn't fall of a cliff after a certain amount of hours. I will be ordering some Ghostwire with the gut too though for other hybrids.

Any thoughts on tension? I usually string at 48/45 with full bed VCT 1.20.
 
If you have a 16 main racket, the standard is 1.30 gut / 1.25 poly.

You can try 55 lbs and see how that works, but with 1.25 gut you'll probably end up somewhere near the 60's with a thin poly & VS Touch (it's the most powerful gut offering atm)
 
aaron_h27 said:
If you have a 16 main racket, the standard is 1.30 gut / 1.25 poly.

You can try 55 lbs and see how that works, but I assume it will be a rocket launcher due to the thin gauges.
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Yes that is what I'm scared of. 1.30 gut is what I would like to get but that gauge not available where I want to buy it from. I can get >1.35 Touch Tonic but I don't think I want to go that thick. Or do you think I should?
I can get 1.30 gauge somewhere else but that will cost me quite a bit more.

Another option is to put it in my Ultra Tour or Ultra Pro, both 18x20. But my VCORES are my main rackets, I haven't played much with the Ultra Tour and Pro yet.
Can also put the gut in the crosses but I think I really should string it in the mains for this 'first' time.
 
RF_PRO_STAFF said:
Yes that is what I'm scared of. 1.30 gut is what I would like to get but that gauge not available where I want to buy it from. I can get >1.35 Touch Tonic but I don't think I want to go that thick. Or do you think I should?
I can get 1.30 gauge somewhere else but that will cost me quite a bit more.

Another option is to put it in my Ultra Tour or Ultra Pro, both 18x20. But my VCORES are my main rackets, I haven't played much with the Ultra Tour and Pro yet.
Can also put the gut in the crosses but I think I really should string it in the mains for this 'first' time.
Click to expand...

You can definitely try 1.25 gut in the mains, it may work out for you. You have to try and see for yourself
 
Wonder about something like Volkl v-square in the crosses ... might have to try that. I always have used any soft poly that’s round or with subtle angles.
 
flanker2000fr said:
I would recommend 4G Soft: it's round and slick, so won't saw into the gut too quickly, has very good tension maintenance for a poly, and is not as stiff as 4G.
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i did not find 4g to be that slick...the new poly tour rev supposed to be super slick and great tension maintenance
 
Louis33 said:
Kirschbaum Max Power 18g is the best poly cross I can find.
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Hey,

I use a pair of Babolat RPM Blast and VS 1.25mm-1.30mm Hybrid Set which I liked.. used natural gut as a MAIN.
This is the only pair I tried once and liked it a lot, but next time I will do higher tension than 42LBS for main (natural gut) and cross 41LBS for RPM blast.

Do you use natural gut as main with 17 gauge since the cross is 18 gauge?
Just looking to buy a full-sized natural gut and cut in half and pair it with something myself for my Babolat pure drive 2018. Suggestions are welcome, I do consider trying 'Kirschbaum Max Power 18g' for the cross.
 
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conventional wisdom for these setups is 10-15% higher tension in gut mains.
still plenty of power, but tames it for control purposes, still get that great gut feel...
 
stapletonj said:
conventional wisdom for these setups is 10-15% higher tension in gut mains.
still plenty of power, but tames it for control purposes, still get that great gut feel...
Click to expand...

This...

I use HGS 1.25mm 54M / GW 1.22mm 52X in my PA+ but in the winter when I use 1.30mm gut/ 1.27 GW, I go up to 58M/56X to dial back the powerful gut...and it feels buttery soft at 58M/567X

With every hybrid, I try to keep the diameter of each string within .05 of each other, but some strings only come in one gauge like Yonex Poly Tour Air....1.25mm only. In the case of Ghostwire with Natural Gut, I change the GW crosses to 1.27mm to get them as close to the 1.30mm Gut Mains, instead of using 1.22mm GW crosses to reduce the sawing. Does it matter? No idea, but in theory it makes sense. :unsure: :)
 
Sorry for late reply. I would try poly crosses in same gauge as the NG. Definitely round not shaped. Manual prestretch the poly and just do it 2-4# less tension. If you have the $, use 4G or SPPP.
 
my brother tried isospeed cream in his stick in the crosses last night.
115 babolat evo,
17 ga. single-coated klip in the mains. 60/55
He loved it and said he was getting more spin, less arm pain, etc., good crisp feel, etc.
So add him to the slippery soft cross club....
 
RF_PRO_STAFF said:
Thanks for the replies guys.


I really don't know yet if I would break the gut quickly but I'd rather not take the risk with a shaped poly. Natural gut is expensive enough for me. I think I'll just go with 1.20 or 1.25 YPTP, I could get great spin with a full bed of that and for me it doesn't fall of a cliff after a certain amount of hours. I will be ordering some Ghostwire with the gut too though for other hybrids.

Any thoughts on tension? I usually string at 48/45 with full bed VCT 1.20.
Click to expand...

During the summer/outdoors I use VS Gut 16G Mains @ 58 and Ghostwire 1.22 Crosses @ 55 in 16x19 100 Sq Inch Prince Racquet. As a comparison I string VCT in the same racquet at 16G 54 Mains /17G 51 Crosses.
 
esgee48 said:
Sorry for late reply. I would try poly crosses in same gauge as the NG. Definitely round not shaped. Manual prestretch the poly and just do it 2-4# less tension. If you have the $, use 4G or SPPP.
Click to expand...
Hey, Thanks for your suggestion, I have a manual crank string machine, is prestretch essential?
 
Tourna Black Zone is the best cross that I have come across. Smooth, slick, pretty dead, pretty soft, and good tension maintenance.
 
g4driver said:
This...

I use HGS 1.25mm 54M / GW 1.22mm 52X in my PA+ but in the winter when I use 1.30mm gut/ 1.27 GW, I go up to 58M/56X to dial back the powerful gut...and it feels buttery soft at 58M/567X

With every hybrid, I try to keep the diameter of each string within .05 of each other, but some strings only come in one gauge like Yonex Poly Tour Air....1.25mm only. In the case of Ghostwire with Natural Gut, I change the GW crosses to 1.27mm to get them as close to the 1.30mm Gut Mains, instead of using 1.22mm GW crosses to reduce the sawing. Does it matter? No idea, but in theory it makes sense. :unsure: :)
Click to expand...

I hate to reply to an old thread but people often yell at users for not using the search. But man this is really frustrating: you guys with all of these acronyms. Can you please just first use the full name before you use acronyms? They're could be so much wisdom in here but I'll never know.
 
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Purist said:
I hate to reply to an old thread but people often yell at users for not using the search. But man this is really frustrating: you guys with all of these acronyms. Can you please just first use the full name before you use acronyms? They're could be so much wisdom in here but I'll never know.
Click to expand...

@Purist

I fly jets for a living and am often typing on my iPhone hence the edited posts since TW disabled TapaTalk for their forum. Of my 5000+ messages, I would guess 4500 of them are about strings or stringing, so try to understand why stringers like me use acronyms. We often forget the audience also includes people like yourself. If you see an acronym you don't understand perhaps simply ask for clarification. I don't post to inflate my post count or to be cryptic, but rather to share knowledge with others. There are a lot of incredibly knowledgable stringers on this forum who string from beginners to WTA/ATP players and everything in the middle.

Some posters like me, use acronyms because some of us don't sit in front of a computer and fail to realize the new thread may not have the name of some strings typed with the full name then the acronym. Often I am simply replying to the thread's individual poster, not starting at Post #1 and reading every post. Many of the posters are well recognized by other posters and the post you quoted from me was a response directly to someone I recognized.

Thanks for your feedback. I'll aim to do better. Just recognize some strings have become so popular their acronyms kind of roll off our fingers when typing. When I write about a string for the first time in a new thread, I always use the brand, string, and gauge in mm, not the 15 to 20-gauge format (which varies greatly by the company with no standard).

My use of acronyms is also how I convey what I did for clients, so what I am typing here is similar to what I am typing to a client. Clients will always get the string in the acronym/tension/gauge. It really isn't for their information, but rather for mine. It is so I know what I did for them. When I'm at work and a client texts me asking when I last strung their frame and what I put in it, I can easily share that information with them. My database is my iPhone with their contact info and stringing details uploaded to the cloud nightly.

M = Mains
X = Crosses
2P Two Piece
1P One Piece
54M / 52X for me is 54 lbs Mains / 52 lbs Crosses. If I see someone using kg, I will post in kg.

Here's my number one pet peeve as a stringer reading this forum from someone complaining they broke a string in 2 hours. No gauge, no string pattern. (n) Then we find out they are breaking 1.20mm Hyper G (HG) in a 16x15 Wilson Steam 99S (99S).
 
Thanks for the thoughtful post. I've been stringing since 1985 (mostly for myself and a couple friends) so I understand most string related acronyms (2P, 54M ATW etc.) but there are hundreds if not thousands of strings so at least for those, it's helpful spell those out at least a little more, or at least once in the thread. I do usually look above to see if it's been defined.
 
Anyone ever tried yonex poly tour strike as a cross for N.gut? PTStrike is supposed to have good tension maintenance.
 
I love Cream 1.28 with Gut mains 16g. 58x55lbs. (and that's that I favored the bite of square polys. Can't believe how good this setup is and my TE isn't going to go away w/ square polys) It is soft, powerful yet controlled and great spin. Yonex Fire 16g felt like a FB poly. Low power, less spin, cut it right out. Trouble is I always break the Cream 1st. Could the fact I pre stretch cream be causing this? Going with Tier One Ghost 16g next but it's basically an equivalent of cream in my mind. I just had my guy restring cream crosses, and getting more life out of gut. Indistinguishable from full new string job. But he was very hesitant to do it afraid frames would warp (Speed Pro '22).
 
rave75 said:
Anyone ever tried yonex poly tour strike as a cross for N.gut? PTStrike is supposed to have good tension maintenance.
Click to expand...
Yes, the go to string setup on my leaded Vcore 95's I run 16g Babolat gut main 52-54 and PT Strike 17g 48-50.. depends on the season.

Good tension maintenance,, a little less natural power than full poly, but easier on the arm with better feel and precision but plenty of power if you generate your own with a full swing. That may be more the VORE 95 characteristics... you need good technique to hit really well with the 95.

and a few strategically placed Babolat string savers help against notching... IMO, extends the gut life.
 
Bartobolas said:
I love Cream 1.28 with Gut mains 16g. 58x55lbs. (Going with Tier One Ghost 16g next but it's basically an equivalent of cream in my mind.
Click to expand...
GW is not an equivalent of Cream in my mind,,my frames, or in my hands.

GW's tension maintenance is superior and it's stiffer. Swift is nearly an identical version of Cream. 99.9% sure Swift and Cream made in same factory and have previously posted pics why I believe this. Had two 4.0 guys and one 4.5 USTA player unable to tell the difference when I put Swift and Cream in their frames and asked them to playtest the strings with no other information to them.

Plenty of discussions on Cream, YPTA, Swift and GW on this forum.. Not at a computer but as a stringer and player who has strung hundreds of frames each with Cream, YPTA, and GW, highly suggest you try 1.27 GW with 1.30mm NG.

with a reels of Cream 1.28mm, Swift 1.25mm and GW 1.22mm and 1.27mm, more clients choice GW 1.27mm as their cross than all others options (Cream, Swift, YPTA) combined when using NG.

3 NG/GW coming off my Alpha Ghost after I post this message
 
Bartobolas said:
I love Cream 1.28 with Gut mains 16g. 58x55lbs. (and that's that I favored the bite of square polys. Can't believe how good this setup is and my TE isn't going to go away w/ square polys) It is soft, powerful yet controlled and great spin. Yonex Fire 16g felt like a FB poly. Low power, less spin, cut it right out. Trouble is I always break the Cream 1st. Could the fact I pre stretch cream be causing this? Going with Tier One Ghost 16g next but it's basically an equivalent of cream in my mind. I just had my guy restring cream crosses, and getting more life out of gut. Indistinguishable from full new string job. But he was very hesitant to do it afraid frames would warp (Speed Pro '22).
Click to expand...
May I ask what you mean by pre-stretch? People are just so resistant to understanding that poly string is like the spring in a ballpoint pen. It has very limited elasticity and you have to be careful with it. So if you mean that you pull at the reference tension for an extended period of time like 10 to 20 seconds that's fine, but do not pretension poly beyond the tension at which you're stringing it, or certainly I would say beyond the mid-50s. Once I learned this years ago, tension maintenance in every single polyester string that I use is so much higher than before. Basically the string doesn't start out dead already. I have a few friends that switched to letting me string for them and they've all been shocked by getting probably over twice the life out of their strings. So instead of 10 to 12 hours sometimes 20 or more hours. The biggest issue that they and I face is not that the string goes dead or starts to lose tension, just that the strings start to move around like a synthetic gut.

I had arm problems since I played tennis in the 80s until 2010. Yet once I learned how to carefully string with polyester strings, I can use a full bed with no problems now. Put another way, in the '80s and 90s I sometimes had to take four to six Advils to get through a match and that was with synthetic gut. I had such terrible arm pain. Now I never take Advil and I use a full bed of poly strung at about 52 lbs. Currently using ALU Power FWIW.
 
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Purist said:
May I ask what you mean by pre-stretch? People are just so resistant to understanding that poly string is like the spring in a ballpoint pen. It has very limited elasticity and you have to be careful with it. So if you mean that you pull at the reference tension for an extended period of time like 10 to 20 seconds that's fine, but do not pretension poly beyond the tension at which we're stringing it, or certainly I would say beyond the mid-50s. Once I learned this years ago, tension maintenance in every single polyester string that I use is so much higher than before. Basically the string doesn't start out dead already. I have a few friends that switched to letting me string for them and they've all been shocked by getting probably over twice the life out of their strings. So instead of 10 to 12 hours sometimes 20 or more hours. The biggest issue that they and I face is not that the string goes dead or starts to lose tension, just that the strings start to move around like a synthetic gut.

I had arm problems since I played tennis in the 80s until 2010. Yet once I learned how to carefully string with polyester strings, I can use a full bed with no problems now. Put another way, in the '80s and 90s I sometimes had to take four to six Advils to get through a match and that was with synthetic gut. I had such terrible arm pain. Now I never take Advil and I use a full bed of poly strung at about 52 lbs. Currently using ALU Power FWIW.
Click to expand...
I don't quite understand what you mean, how do you string poly differently?
 
veelium said:
I don't quite understand what you mean, how do you string poly differently?
Click to expand...
...It has very limited elasticity and you have to be careful with it. So if you mean that you pull at the reference tension for an extended period of time like 10 to 20 seconds that's fine, but do not pretension poly beyond the tension at which you're stringing it, or certainly I would say don't string poly beyond the mid-50s, period..."

If you're going to string at 50 lbs, never pull that string beyond 50 lbs., for example.

I know that part of what killed my arm in the 80s, was my stupid tennis coach having us pre-stretch our synthetic gut with every single pound of body weight and force we could muster around a pole. We're talking probably over 200 lbs of force. Completely killed the string which made it very hard on my arm and I recognize now caused the string start to lose tension quickly after the first ball hit. I didn't understand back then why towards the end of the first set (tournament, freshly strung rackets) the ball was flying on me and I didn't know enough to understand it was just losing tension and it wasn't me.

Basically from 1985 (when I met that coach) to 2001 (when I just quit tennis because I always had tremendous arm pain) I can hardly remember when I could swing 100% at my forehand or serve because of this pain at the base of my bicep. Just terribly stupid and ignorant stringing methodology by him. Hundred pound pre-stretching and double pulls on every main string just to save time. Ugh.
 
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aaron_h27 said:
If you have a 16 main racket, the standard is 1.30 gut / 1.25 poly.

You can try 55 lbs and see how that works, but with 1.25 gut you'll probably end up somewhere near the 60's with a thin poly & VS Touch (it's the most powerful gut offering atm)
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Serious question, as I know I can come across sarcastic, but where does that standard come from? Rationally, I can understand that you would want a thicker gauge gut for durability purposes. Just wondering because I am also relatively new to gut/poly setups and stringing.

I've got with 1.25 Lux Gut with PT Rev and Hawk Rough which are both 1.25. So far, the results have been great.

Also, to chime in on the GW discussion, it has lost its place as a favorite cross of mine. I started to notice that it can develop a mushy feeling to it and I didn't like that. Nor did my players. I've since been trying Ytex Protour and enjoying it more.
 
Pre-stretching polys makes them stiffer. It also removes deformation due to hitting by most players. What's left is a string that requires very hard hitting to deform and is so basically elastic. Basic examples of this are Lux ALU which lasts about 2-3 hours vs Lux 4G which can last at least 16 hours and if the 4G is pre-stretched manually, can last until it breaks. This applies to thicker variants of 4G such as 1.30 mm. And of course, you do not string ALU like you would 4G. 4G needs to be strung at least 6-10# lower depending on diameter and frame.
 
ryushen21 said:
Serious question, as I know I can come across sarcastic, but where does that standard come from? Rationally, I can understand that you would want a thicker gauge gut for durability purposes. Just wondering because I am also relatively new to gut/poly setups and stringing.

I've got with 1.25 Lux Gut with PT Rev and Hawk Rough which are both 1.25. So far, the results have been great.

Also, to chime in on the GW discussion, it has lost its place as a favorite cross of mine. I started to notice that it can develop a mushy feeling to it and I didn't like that. Nor did my players. I've since been trying Ytex Protour and enjoying it more.
Click to expand...
I'd guess because it's the most common with pros?
I prefer 1.30/1.30 in 16x19, keeps the launch angle down a tad but might just be the placebo effect.
 
ryushen21 said:
Serious question, as I know I can come across sarcastic, but where does that standard come from? Rationally, I can understand that you would want a thicker gauge gut for durability purposes. Just wondering because I am also relatively new to gut/poly setups and stringing.

I've got with 1.25 Lux Gut with PT Rev and Hawk Rough which are both 1.25. So far, the results have been great.

Also, to chime in on the GW discussion, it has lost its place as a favorite cross of mine. I started to notice that it can develop a mushy feeling to it and I didn't like that. Nor did my players. I've since been trying Ytex Protour and enjoying it more.
Click to expand...
I switched from GW to MSV Swift also due to the mushiness, give Swift a try, it's a really great cross I can't recommend it enough especially for the price of a reel.
 
g4driver said:
GW is not an equivalent of Cream in my mind,,my frames, or in my hands.

GW's tension maintenance is superior and it's stiffer. Swift is nearly an identical version of Cream. 99.9% sure Swift and Cream made in same factory and have previously posted pics why I believe this. Had two 4.0 guys and one 4.5 USTA player unable to tell the difference when I put Swift and Cream in their frames and asked them to playtest the strings with no other information to them.

Plenty of discussions on Cream, YPTA, Swift and GW on this forum.. Not at a computer but as a stringer and player who has strung hundreds of frames each with Cream, YPTA, and GW, highly suggest you try 1.27 GW with 1.30mm NG.

with a reels of Cream 1.28mm, Swift 1.25mm and GW 1.22mm and 1.27mm, more clients choice GW 1.27mm as their cross than all others options (Cream, Swift, YPTA)
combined when using NG.

3 NG/GW coming off my Alpha Ghost after I post this message
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Yep, GW is stiffer and I didn't love it as much as cream but maybe it's a matter of adjusting to it. Your feedback and it's popularity is reassuring so I'll drop the tension on GW from 52-50. Gut at around 55# pre stretched 20%.
Is the N.G.W. budget gut total garbage or worth a shot in their v5 reiteration?
 
Bartobolas said:
Yep, GW is stiffer and I didn't love it as much as cream but maybe it's a matter of adjusting to it. Your feedback and it's popularity is reassuring so I'll drop the tension on GW from 52-50. Gut at around 55# pre stretched 20%.
Is the N.G.W. budget gut total garbage or worth a shot in their v5 reiteration?
Click to expand...
Total garbage imo.
Out of 7 half sets, I got less than 10 hours of playtime.
 
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