Which pro has the heaviest topspin two-handed backhand?
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Roy125
Professional
It's also a lot easier to mess up.
Gaudio2004
Semi-Pro
David Nalbandian can generate heavy topspin with his backhand, some of his classic indoor matches include him moving players out to the doubles tramlines with great spin and angle from crosscourt backhands. I'd go on Youtube and just write "Nalbandian backhands" and eventually some amazing heavy topspin backhands will come up.
The only player who hits with really heavy topspin with a 2 hander is Gulbis. Nalbandian just hits it really low over the net to hit those incredible angles. The ball doesn't kick at all when it hits the ground.
Very rare historically actually, plenty of moonballers like Nadal or Brugera, but actual heavy spin with a 2 hander? Borg and Courier, although Courier's backhand was just solid it really did have quite a lot of spin on it.
Very rare historically actually, plenty of moonballers like Nadal or Brugera, but actual heavy spin with a 2 hander? Borg and Courier, although Courier's backhand was just solid it really did have quite a lot of spin on it.
mightyrick
Legend
Nadal gets some pretty wicked action off of his 2HBH. But I don't think a heavy topspin 2HBH is that effective. Gulbis is obviously another 2HBH topspin junkie. Neither one of those guys significantly rotates their shoulders into the shot... which is why they get so much topspin. They hit it so vertical.
But compared to other 2HBH greats, Nadal and Gulbis have pretty average two handers.
But compared to other 2HBH greats, Nadal and Gulbis have pretty average two handers.
Disgruntled Worker
Professional
I do
10chars
10chars
Sriki_tennis_maniac
New User
wilkinru
Professional
I love aussie commentators.
ClairHarmony
Rookie
Lugueerrra! Beyond a shadow of a doubt. I once saw him hit a topspin backhand soooo high, that Andre Agassi who has great vision, had to remove his trusty binoculars from his sweat pants to see them...which one? The moon, or the ball? That IS the question.
Bruguera's backhand was the Eddie Guerrero of two-handers, the Frogsplash...yeahh! That's splash! Yeahh!!! U like jazz?
I once saw Bruguera hit the finest short angled dipping pass in HISTORY. I would be my life on it. Against Pioline in the 93 Monte Carlo final hampered by soggy rain...Bruguera's short-dipping pass just WOOWWWED!!! And saved the day. If it were Rios who hit it, people would have been clamoring through their quivering whiskers on end, on end, about how, woooW!!! Such an autistic savage genius to come up with that, no one else could have done that, no way, nope never...but that's just how life is. Mystyique makes people believe they've never seen anyone do what you just never done before...huh? If that makes sense.
I'm telling you, I have NEVER seen anything more *acute* than that angle dipping pass from Bruguera. It was THAT good. The single greatest acute angled dipping pass I've ever witnessed. Does it mean anything? No, not really. It was just a point...he didn't have to hit it that acute...show off. I hate them. But then again, if he didn't hit it that acute, Pioline might have finished him on that point. He was very athletic, no? Come to think of it, he also kind of looked like a frog. A charming one, but a frog. Let's just call him the Frog Prince of France...of tennis. One question, does he prefer to smoke from wood, or eat hoagies? Me, personally, I prefer hoagies with mustard not mayonaisse. Mustard makes you hot and thin, mayo makes you...ewww, but then again, tuna fish sandwiches just wouldn't be the same w/out them.
That was acute on a *dime.* Bam!! Two-exclamations up, for the most underappreciated 2-hander in history. But Tony Trabert knew when he wrote for Tennis Magazine, and said, Bruguera's 2-hander when on is one of the most *versatile* in the game. Truly, he could do it ALL from that side. But the one area where he was simply irresistable was in the ammount of topspin he could generate off this side when he wanted to.
When he chose to, I've NEVER seen anyone be able to get the ball to brush up and bounce so high, as though he were hitting a *forehand* moonball...but only with two-hands. That takes real audacity, *and* talent to do. W/out that free-ranging arcing motion that my free hand is good for, it's hard to imagine how he did it, but he done it all right...but only when he was in his prime. Now that he's worthless and old, I'm hoping I can sneak up on him in his sleep, and ask him to play for free. In my dreams he never gets old, even though I know he really is. You never know w. TRT, comeback in the year 2080? Anything's possible if u ask me. Agassi was very frustrated in this match, very. A few of those Bruguera backhands just kept on wanting to jump over his head. And that's why in the end, he flipped the bird at a spectator, for something or other, not sure if he really remembers, because it wasn't me. Oh, trust me, if it were me, he would have noticed my bulging esophogous and thought differently. He lost easy on this day, on clay; but save his best for last. Were it anybody else, I would have been glad to watch Bruguera make them eat silver croak, toad, baby! Gold for me! I mean Brugeura and me!!! You never know, it might have happened, but only in my dreams. Don't u remember? We won Olympic gold in doubles, and then later the poll for who would look Marilyn Romney in a milk mustache, or Luguera & me? Oh, I think we already know the answer to that. I am humble Mario, and he is Luigi, hogging all the credit; why none for me?
If it weren't for me, the world would not know that the world's most acut backhand dipper pass in history...seriously, the crowd gasped when it went off...was hit not by Rios, but me!!! Ok, so I seriously am delusional right now, and need to grab a donut & a twinkie...snooozz...z.
Bruguera's backhand was the Eddie Guerrero of two-handers, the Frogsplash...yeahh! That's splash! Yeahh!!! U like jazz?
I once saw Bruguera hit the finest short angled dipping pass in HISTORY. I would be my life on it. Against Pioline in the 93 Monte Carlo final hampered by soggy rain...Bruguera's short-dipping pass just WOOWWWED!!! And saved the day. If it were Rios who hit it, people would have been clamoring through their quivering whiskers on end, on end, about how, woooW!!! Such an autistic savage genius to come up with that, no one else could have done that, no way, nope never...but that's just how life is. Mystyique makes people believe they've never seen anyone do what you just never done before...huh? If that makes sense.
I'm telling you, I have NEVER seen anything more *acute* than that angle dipping pass from Bruguera. It was THAT good. The single greatest acute angled dipping pass I've ever witnessed. Does it mean anything? No, not really. It was just a point...he didn't have to hit it that acute...show off. I hate them. But then again, if he didn't hit it that acute, Pioline might have finished him on that point. He was very athletic, no? Come to think of it, he also kind of looked like a frog. A charming one, but a frog. Let's just call him the Frog Prince of France...of tennis. One question, does he prefer to smoke from wood, or eat hoagies? Me, personally, I prefer hoagies with mustard not mayonaisse. Mustard makes you hot and thin, mayo makes you...ewww, but then again, tuna fish sandwiches just wouldn't be the same w/out them.
That was acute on a *dime.* Bam!! Two-exclamations up, for the most underappreciated 2-hander in history. But Tony Trabert knew when he wrote for Tennis Magazine, and said, Bruguera's 2-hander when on is one of the most *versatile* in the game. Truly, he could do it ALL from that side. But the one area where he was simply irresistable was in the ammount of topspin he could generate off this side when he wanted to.
When he chose to, I've NEVER seen anyone be able to get the ball to brush up and bounce so high, as though he were hitting a *forehand* moonball...but only with two-hands. That takes real audacity, *and* talent to do. W/out that free-ranging arcing motion that my free hand is good for, it's hard to imagine how he did it, but he done it all right...but only when he was in his prime. Now that he's worthless and old, I'm hoping I can sneak up on him in his sleep, and ask him to play for free. In my dreams he never gets old, even though I know he really is. You never know w. TRT, comeback in the year 2080? Anything's possible if u ask me. Agassi was very frustrated in this match, very. A few of those Bruguera backhands just kept on wanting to jump over his head. And that's why in the end, he flipped the bird at a spectator, for something or other, not sure if he really remembers, because it wasn't me. Oh, trust me, if it were me, he would have noticed my bulging esophogous and thought differently. He lost easy on this day, on clay; but save his best for last. Were it anybody else, I would have been glad to watch Bruguera make them eat silver croak, toad, baby! Gold for me! I mean Brugeura and me!!! You never know, it might have happened, but only in my dreams. Don't u remember? We won Olympic gold in doubles, and then later the poll for who would look Marilyn Romney in a milk mustache, or Luguera & me? Oh, I think we already know the answer to that. I am humble Mario, and he is Luigi, hogging all the credit; why none for me?
If it weren't for me, the world would not know that the world's most acut backhand dipper pass in history...seriously, the crowd gasped when it went off...was hit not by Rios, but me!!! Ok, so I seriously am delusional right now, and need to grab a donut & a twinkie...snooozz...z.
Harry_Wild
G.O.A.T.
Rafa Nadal!
PhrygianDominant
Hall of Fame
Söderling!
miss him so much...
miss him so much...
mightyrick
Legend
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWH13q1teeA
This video pretty much says it all. Extremely low takeback and extremely low racquet drop. Watch the trajectory of his racquet. He only partially rotates his left shoulder. His finish looks like he's hugging his neck.
Seeing a slow motion rally ball isn't really necessary. The form says it all.
Why do people cite this video as an example of heavy topspin?
Look at how slow the racket-head speed is on that shot - you can't make massive topspin swinging that slow. Basically on that point Nalby had the whole court wide open and chose to dink a cute angle cross-court.
I think the winning bh dtl in the first point on this video;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydJpjQOK0_I
...is more an example of heavy topspin, looking at the extreme racket head speed, lift over the net and how the ball jumps all the way into the back fence after bouncing.
If y'all know any other vids of Nalbandian or other players hitting topspin-monkey 2hbh's, post them here...
mightyrick
Legend
No, that isn't a heavy topspin backhand. It has way too much pace and it is way too flat.
If you're looking for just people who hit crushing 2HBH winners, then there is nobody better than Safin or Agassi. Those two leave everyone behind.
So what do you think of Nadal's backhand - flat or heavy?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cdQLPbxcpk
The one he hits at 0.37 seems to kick high and if you look carefully, he does a windshield wiper finish on that one - but would have been out in singles play anyway.
How does it rank against some of the heaviest 1hbh's in the business? Or the heaviest 2hbh's in the business?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cdQLPbxcpk
The one he hits at 0.37 seems to kick high and if you look carefully, he does a windshield wiper finish on that one - but would have been out in singles play anyway.
How does it rank against some of the heaviest 1hbh's in the business? Or the heaviest 2hbh's in the business?
PhrygianDominant
Hall of Fame
^^nadal hits a much better backhand in practice than match play thats for sure.
PhrygianDominant
Hall of Fame
you might find spinnier backhands on the wta tour where bent left arms and 'lefthanded forehand' versions of two handers are more prevalent. Most of the men play with a straight hitting arm and a bent non hitting arm on a two hander, which makes the follow through pretty flat.
http://www.tennisplayer.net/public/..._complex/Copy of 2hd_bh_simplest_complex.html
http://www.tennisplayer.net/public/..._complex/Copy of 2hd_bh_simplest_complex.html
SLD76
G.O.A.T.
feliciano lopez..which is why he sliced so much today in the tiebreaks with murray, he didnt want to hurt anybody out there
PhrygianDominant
Hall of Fame
feliciano lopez..which is why he sliced so much today in the tiebreaks with murray, he didnt want to hurt anybody out there
Yeah, Feli secretly has an amazing two hander but he never uses it out of fear for his opponents...he tragically killed an opponent in an under 10 tournament and since then only hits one handed.
He has a complicated and storied history, that Lopez fellow.
What a self-loathing anti-hero he is.
PhrygianDominant
Hall of Fame
He also injured an obscure tennis player from his native spain named Rafael something or other, anyway this other player was concussed and forgot he was right handed, spent the rest of career playing left handed...true story.
What are your thoughts on hitting with both elbows bent vs both straight for more spin?
Davydenko and Djokovic seem to hit with both elbows bent - they have some of the best backhands in the business, but I have no idea how much topspin is on their backhands. It is hard to tell from footage.
Almost all 2hbh's look like flat shots. Still looking for decent vids of heavy topspin on a 2hbh...
Davydenko and Djokovic seem to hit with both elbows bent - they have some of the best backhands in the business, but I have no idea how much topspin is on their backhands. It is hard to tell from footage.
Almost all 2hbh's look like flat shots. Still looking for decent vids of heavy topspin on a 2hbh...
PhrygianDominant
Hall of Fame
Did you check Yandell's link?
Anyway I think both elbows bent will allow you to pronate your hitting arm (left for a righthanded player) more, which will give you more spin. Check out Venus Williams, here elbows are really bent. That and more extreme grips on both hitting (SW or W) and nonhitting arms (E). Nadal has a set up on backhands that almost resembles 1hbh, and he gets a lot of spin. In match play he has trouble hitting from an open stance and ends up bunting a lot of balls crosscourt, but in practice he really lets it rip.
Anyway I think both elbows bent will allow you to pronate your hitting arm (left for a righthanded player) more, which will give you more spin. Check out Venus Williams, here elbows are really bent. That and more extreme grips on both hitting (SW or W) and nonhitting arms (E). Nadal has a set up on backhands that almost resembles 1hbh, and he gets a lot of spin. In match play he has trouble hitting from an open stance and ends up bunting a lot of balls crosscourt, but in practice he really lets it rip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j86FuSXtWUM&feature=player_detailpage#t=15s
At 0.17 mark, you see Nadal hit a windshield-wiper 2hbh off of a high ball.
He has a double straight arm technique, doesn't he? Or is it straight/bent? Definitely not double bent.
At 0.17 mark, you see Nadal hit a windshield-wiper 2hbh off of a high ball.
He has a double straight arm technique, doesn't he? Or is it straight/bent? Definitely not double bent.
PhrygianDominant
Hall of Fame
Nadal hits most of his backhands his hitting arm straight and non hitting arm bent. He can do that faux WW motion because he has an eastern grip on his non hitting arm. That is what I was getting at in my previous post.
Comparing Djokovic's and Murray's backhands - though they are both the dominant shot for each of them, to me their backhands have always looked quite different mechanically.
Djokovic's seems fairly cramped up - like he's bending both arms at contact and Murray's seems more straight arm.
Who do you think gets more spin on the ball, and who hit's more flat?
Djokovic's seems fairly cramped up - like he's bending both arms at contact and Murray's seems more straight arm.
Who do you think gets more spin on the ball, and who hit's more flat?
PhrygianDominant
Hall of Fame
Murray has a much more conservative grip on his left hand and comes through the ball much more flat. For this reason he loves drilling it low and hard crosscourt. Murray does have a great passing shot up the line but he half volleys it most of the time, he rarely goes up the line for a clean winner with both players at the baseline.
Djokovic has a more modern (SW) grip on his left hand and hits a ball with more shape. For this reason he has a better backhand DTL. I think Djokovic definitely has more spin, his follow through is also often more reminiscent of a 1hbh, in that he doesn't roll the racquet much, he keeps it horizontal and follows through low to high (Djokovic wanted a 1hbh as a kid, but switched back to 2hbh because he was losing from getting pushed back). It's a great stroke, but not as compact as murray's.
Both have straight Left arms at contact and bent right arms.
Djokovic is more comfortable hitting in a closed stance for the aforementioned reasons but therefore can be rushed a bit.
Djokovic has a more modern (SW) grip on his left hand and hits a ball with more shape. For this reason he has a better backhand DTL. I think Djokovic definitely has more spin, his follow through is also often more reminiscent of a 1hbh, in that he doesn't roll the racquet much, he keeps it horizontal and follows through low to high (Djokovic wanted a 1hbh as a kid, but switched back to 2hbh because he was losing from getting pushed back). It's a great stroke, but not as compact as murray's.
Both have straight Left arms at contact and bent right arms.
Djokovic is more comfortable hitting in a closed stance for the aforementioned reasons but therefore can be rushed a bit.
PhrygianDominant
Hall of Fame
In the match last night, we effectively saw Murray take advantage of Djokovic's backhand in a subtle way, albeit with some help from the wind. In backhand to backhand rallies, Murray manages such extreme angles with so much pace that Djokovic never got a chance to do much anything except get the ball back, he couldn't set up for his favorite DTL because he was rushed more often than not. He therefore had to revert to slice quite a bit, which he doesn't do nearly as well as Murray, but that is another thread.
Against Nadal, Djokovic's backhand becomes his best asset again, because he has absolutely no problem cutting through high balls on his backhand and hitting them all over the place, seemingly at will.
Against Nadal, Djokovic's backhand becomes his best asset again, because he has absolutely no problem cutting through high balls on his backhand and hitting them all over the place, seemingly at will.
What do you mean by 'roll the racket'?
Pronate?
Comparing them;
Djokovic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxzCe3sipgg
Murray: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsMLBAKn9MU
Djokovic drops his wrists so that the racket tip (by which I mean opposite end of the racket to the butt-cap) points towards the floor before brushing up to contact. I guess this would generate extra topspin.
Murray doesn't do that nearly so much.
But by 'rolling' the racket - do you mean pronate the left hand and supinate the right hand through contact - resulting in a windshield-wiper finish two-handed backhand?
Incidentally, out of all the 2hbh's I've seen, only Nadal does a windshield-wiper finish. Do you think Nadal therefore gets the most topspin on his 2hbh, or do other 2hbh's (Gulbis?) get topspin?
PhrygianDominant
Hall of Fame
Djokovic does indeed, as you said, pronate and supinate to come over the ball (roll). I had this image in my head of djokovic hitting backhands up the line with a lot of extension and less pronation/supination, but he only does it sometimes, so it's not a good example.
I haven't studied Gulbis motion, but I think it's pretty spinny
I haven't studied Gulbis motion, but I think it's pretty spinny
Hmm, I wonder about Melzer, actually - he seems to have quite a lot of topspin on his 2hbh...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQmNA1r3GqQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQmNA1r3GqQ
I think Nishikori's backhand has a lot of height over the net and kick off the court from this clip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bskzZ0SmzQQ
Contrast it to Nalbandian's backhand which seems to be very flat, though people apparently mistakenly say it is very spinny;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9LG9I_3zV8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bskzZ0SmzQQ
Contrast it to Nalbandian's backhand which seems to be very flat, though people apparently mistakenly say it is very spinny;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9LG9I_3zV8
