Which statement is more absurd? part 2 series - for tennis and Star Wars fans

Which statement is more absurd?

  • Djokovic is a better player today than he was in 2011

    Votes: 6 12.5%

  • The Rise of Skywalker is the greatest Star Wars movie of all time

    Votes: 26 54.2%

  • Both are equally absurd

    Votes: 11 22.9%

  • Neither is absurd

    Votes: 5 10.4%
  • Total voters
    48
M

Megafanoftennis100

Professional
I previously posted a thread asking "Which statement is more absurd, "peak Djokovic at AO is better than peak Nadal at RG" or "Pete Sampras benefitted from a weak era"?
Apparently, the discussion was very interesting, filled with diverse opinions.

And now, I posted a part 2 to this. I hope you guys won't feel too annoyed. And to make things more interesting this time, this thread is for both tennis AND Star Wars fans.

I included what I thought were two of the most ridiculous and nonsensical claims for the tennis community and the Star Wars universe.
What is your choice? See the poll above :)
 
When we ask who is GOAT, what do we look at? Slam count. And nothing else. If any other metric is mentioned, it is ridiculed.

Therefore, Djokovic is by definition exactly equal in 2011 and 2023. And there can be no argument.
 
tennis3 said:
When we ask who is GOAT, what do we look at? Slam count. And nothing else. If any other metric is mentioned, it is ridiculed.

Therefore, Djokovic is by definition exactly equal in 2011 and 2023. And there can be no argument.
Click to expand...
If you put the Djokovic of 2011 in 2023 he would easily win the 5 most important events in tennis, on the other hand, if Djokovic of 2023 competed in 2011 he would not win any of the 5 major events in tennis.
:D
 
tennis3 said:
When we ask who is GOAT, what do we look at? Slam count. And nothing else. If any other metric is mentioned, it is ridiculed.

Therefore, Djokovic is by definition exactly equal in 2011 and 2023. And there can be no argument.
Click to expand...
Not really the records, but more like the way they play.
And here is my conclusion:
Serve - 2023
Forehand - 50/50
Backhand - 2011
Speed - 2011
Stamina - 2011
Net game - 2023
Mental toughness - 2011
 
DSH said:
If you put the Djokovic of 2011 in 2023 he would easily win the 5 most important events in tennis, on the other hand, if Djokovic of 2023 competed in 2011 he would not win any of the 5 major events in tennis.
:D
Click to expand...
Not really. Djokovic played way better at the ATP Finals in 2023 than he did in 2011. If 2023 Djokovic were placed in 2011, he would have won the ATP Finals imo. (yes, even against 2011 Federer) Especially his performances in the semis and finals this year were nothing short of remarkable. 2011 Djokovic, on the other hand, lost to Tipsarevic of all people!
But yeah, other than that, 2023 Djokovic wins 0 Slams in 2011. Just like 2019 Federer wins 0 Slams in 2007, or 2022 Nadal in 2008.
 
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alexio said:
shame i didnt watch star wars
Click to expand...
af7b183a-843b-4297-82c0-2932a2432d08_text.gif
 
Megafanoftennis100 said:
Not really. Djokovic played way better at the ATP Finals in 2023 than he did in 2011. If 2023 Djokovic were placed in 2011, he would have won the ATP Finals imo. (yes, even against 2011 Federer) Especially his performances in the semis and finals this year were nothing short of remarkable. 2011 Djokovic, on the other hand, lost to Tipsarevic of all people!
But yeah, other than that, 2023 Djokovic wins 0 Slams in 2011. Just like 2019 Federer wins 0 Slams in 2007, or 2022 Nadal in 2008.
Click to expand...
I honestly don't think 36-year-old Djokovic can stand up to 30-year-old Federer indoors.
What I do recognize is that the Serbian player played the 2023 edition of the ATP Finals at a higher level than his 2011 version, who arrived physically and mentally exhausted in the last part of that season.
:)
 
Star Wars was interesting as a monoculture phenomenon with genuine imagination at the core. A mix of the brilliant world-building of the mid-20th century sci-fi writers with the cutting edge frontier of big budget studio spectacle.

However, since being acquired by Disney, it is garbage. Slop, written on demand for eyeballs rather than discovery, reverse engineered from the studio heads downward, and distilled to be fed to the masses similar to the garbage capeshit model. It’s clear they were guided by one thing and one thing only: Disney’s other acquisition - Marvel.

Any superhero or Disney Star Wars movie released after 2010 is actively making you stupider. It has no heart, and moreover, no relevance to modern life. It is simply IP acquired by Disney, bastardized to optimally fit into a corporate projection spreadsheet, and stripped down to its most base, its lowest common denominator. In essence, it represents the 21st century death of the blockbuster.

That being said. I still voted for Option 1.
 
Kralingen said:
Star Wars was interesting as a monoculture phenomenon with genuine imagination at the core. A mix of the brilliant world-building of the mid-20th century sci-fi writers with the cutting edge frontier of big budget studio spectacle.

However, since being acquired by Disney, it is garbage. Slop, written on demand for eyeballs rather than discovery, reverse engineered from the studio heads downward, and distilled to be fed to the masses similar to the garbage capeshit model. It’s clear they were guided by one thing and one thing only: Disney’s other acquisition - Marvel.

Any superhero or Disney Star Wars movie released after 2010 is actively making you stupider. It has no heart, and moreover, no relevance to modern life. It is simply IP acquired by Disney, bastardized to optimally fit into a corporate projection spreadsheet, and stripped down to its most base, its lowest common denominator. In essence, it represents the 21st century death of the blockbuster.

That being said. I still voted for Option 1.
Click to expand...
Rogue One was decent.
 
Some of us started watching Star Wars from Force awakens, then went back to watch from the first movie. I personally think the Reylo plot was better than Anidala, and better than Leia x Solo. So for me episodes 7-9 was the best series.
 
As a Star Wars fan, I haven't even bothered to watch The Rise of Skywalker, which by all accounts is a massive turd.

* * *

As for Djokovic, while the notion that he's overall better is ludicrous, one could make the point that he does some things better now than in 2011.

Oldovic is obviously worse on clay and slower surfaces, but the serve improvements have kept him relatively closer elsewhere.

Also he's added a bit more variety and he's honed his game plans to perfection. He basically never beats himself and always makes his opponents' life as difficult as possible, which wasn't always the case in 2011 when he was more swashbuckling/cavalier.
 
Kralingen said:
I remember thinking similar as I walked out of the theater, and then when I tried to discuss it the following week, I realized that I had forgotten every single detail about the film and had no chance to recall any of it. That sort of sums it up.
Click to expand...
Andor and the MC girl whose name I forgot were as flat as pancakes and nowhere as sweet*. Poor Forrest Whitaker was underused. CGI Tarkin and Leia were very distracting.

The final heist was kinda cool though, and the comic relief decent with the funny robot and the Zatoichi guy.

The ending felt adequately final, with Vader delivering the final punchline.

It's the kind of high production-value fanfic I wouldn't mind watching more of. Mostly because they didn't crap on any legacy characters.

* Which is kind of a pity because apparently there was a better story to be told than what we saw, according to the extended materials.
Basically Andor and what's-her-name are serious characters thrown into a film that's trying too hard to be Guardians of the Galaxy, and so they inevitably feel out of place.
 
Last edited:
kunos said:
I would argue that The Force Awakens is also decent.. extremely derivative for sure but decent, it had potential and it set up a bunch of interesting elements.. I remember walking out of the cinema very intrigued by what was coming... then TLJ happened.
Click to expand...
I don't see what's interesting about a rehash of Episode IV. It tried to do the same thing with characters that are pale imitations of the original ones. JJ Abrams thought he was being smart, but the ligthsaber working like a Harry Potter wand is a pretty representation of the fact he had no idea what he was doing.

I do think it was better than the next 2 movies though.
 
CoolCoolCool said:
I do think it was better than the next 2 movies though.
Click to expand...
Not a tall hurdle to clear. I would go on at length but a) I'm on some pretty strong back pain meds, and b) the video mahesh posted earlier does it far better than I could.

They failed to explore any of the things that made the new characters interesting anyway (Rey's abandonment complex, Finn's indoctrination and Imperial connection, Poe being g**** than Christmas...) and instead dialed the 11 on fanservice and an extremely cookie cutter plot.
 
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Thank goodness there are decent modern sequels, sadly they are so few.

If it wasn't for MadMax FR, Blade Runner 2049 and the SW prequels i would be inclined to say it should be illegal to continue a franchise after more than 10 years of gap between one and the other

The new trilogy of SW never existed and it should never be mentioned.
 
Many filmmakers have been inspired over the years from playing with toys on their kitchen tables.

Lego sets, Meccano, action figures, acting out scenarios from their favourite films and then coming up with their own stories, retaining those stories in their memories, building on them, thinking about them, and then one day putting them on paper and sharing with others.

When shared with others their visions were then challenged, crafted, reimagined, and developed and flourished into new stories and sometimes entire worlds where imaginations can flourish, where anything is possible.

Disney Star Wars - creatively - never left the kitchen table.
 
Megafanoftennis100 said:
I agree. The Rise of Skywalker for Star Wars fans felt like Wimbledon 2019 for Federer fans.
Click to expand...

In a way. But Wimbledon 2019 was a narrow miss. The Rise of Palpatine - if it had existed - would have been a total and unmitigated disaster from start to start and wouldn’t have got beyond that. The first rule at any planning meeting to discuss making the long-awaited Star Wars sequel trilogy must be, “Palpatine does not rise, because he is dead for eternity, as shown in a film that some of you should watch, called The Return of Jedi.


Wurm said:
Somehow Palpatine returned.
Click to expand...

Incorrect: he died in Return of the Jedi and was dead for eternity. Any rumors to the contrary are false rumors.
 
Star Wars went the same way Marvel and DC went. Once everyone and their mother is a Jedi or Batman or Superman start straight-up murdering criminals, or every adversary can destroy planets or the universe, nothing means anything any more.
 
The Blond Blur said:
The 2020 seasons have been the tennis equivalent to the Star Wars sequels so all in all that’s not a bad comparison. Both are equally absurd.
Click to expand...
Haha, good comparison. I would label the tennis eras like this:
2001-2007 - Prequel Trilogy
2008-2016 - Original Trilogy
2017-2023 - Sequel Trilogy

Although I do think that 2023 is where it ends, because next year, we will most likely be seeing guys like Sinner, Rune and Alcaraz becoming much more complete and better players. Also, don't forget Medvedev. He got out of the slump he had in 2022, and delivered one of the best HC performances of the season at the USO semis. Zverev also fully recovered from the ankle injury he suffered in 2022. And maybe even Shelton could show some notable improvements next season.
Perhaps the 2024 season could be the new "A New Hope" season for tennis.
 
Hood_Man said:
Many filmmakers have been inspired over the years from playing with toys on their kitchen tables.

Lego sets, Meccano, action figures, acting out scenarios from their favourite films and then coming up with their own stories, retaining those stories in their memories, building on them, thinking about them, and then one day putting them on paper and sharing with others.

When shared with others their visions were then challenged, crafted, reimagined, and developed and flourished into new stories and sometimes entire worlds where imaginations can flourish, where anything is possible.

Disney Star Wars - creatively - never left the kitchen table.
Click to expand...
I refuse to believes that someone who ever loved Star Wars can put out that crap.

The sequel trilogy tragedy features an unholy mix of corporate mandate and uncaring (Johnson)/incompetent (JJ) creators.
 
MichaelNadal said:
3 and 5 are the only movies that are actually great
Click to expand...
Dunno about great but all the old ones are a real fun watch, and the prequels are such a wealth of memes I can't really hate them

As for 6, the Vader arc alone is so satisfying it makes it an automatic classic. Best FX in the old movies too. And the Emperor is such a memorably cheesy bad guy.
 
OK, here is a good one:
Which is more absurd, "The Rise of Skywalker is a better movie than Empire Strikes Back" or "peak Djokovic is better on grass than peak Federer"?
 
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