Which Wegner videos

[Public-courts]

I have a junior in high school, who for years has played club soccer. She is burned out and wants to at least try tennis, which I have unsuccessfully pushed for for years. In short, I have a small window to introduce my child, who is no longer a child, to the game. I am well aware of the Wegner controversy on these threads and do NOT want this deteriorating into a methodology slugfest. I am a tennis mutt having learned from the estimable Dave smith, tennis oxygen, feel tennis, aiming others With that said, for this situation,
I would like to know which Wegner videos to order that would help me (line one, 4.0 player) and her learn the game. Thanks!

 

[Public-courts]

Oops... Inestimable Dave smith...

 

[SFrazeur]

The videos of him on youtube giving lessons are rather conclusive of his approach. I would not recommend videos but a good instructor instead. While it is true that a person can learn from videos it can be done faster with a good instructor.

 

[5263]

the streaming video - it is the deal for all the DVDS that's over 12 hours of material - or the Best Of Oscar DVD would be the optimal single pick -

above is the answer I got by asking for you...

 

[Public-courts]

Thank you.

 

[teachestennis]

I just picked up a junior from Buena High School today given no coach in Ventura knew how to coach him with a severe Western grip hitting the ball with one side of the strings off both sides using a 1HBH. Cleaned him up in no time. I'm an assistant coach at Nordhoff High School in Ojai for the girls team. If you email me at mtmcoach@yahoo.com I'll give you some advice on the side given tennis season starts in August. I'll even evaluate videos on the internet if you take them of her. Maybe the gang on TW would like to see how she advances with MTM solely as a case study. The streaming videos are inexpensive and I believe will suit your wish better than anything. We do use other coaches materials (Dave Smith, Chris Lewit, Doug King...we really love tennisone.com) to supplement understanding given we believe MTM is a biomechanical foundation that allows the best instant success to then choose which path to go. If your daughter then wants to hit closed stance 2HBHs and has better success versus open stance 2HBs, we support that. We just believe in using a naturalistic play by feel method that let's the students discover what works best. Arch3 used MTM to get to a good level and then needed Jeff Salzenstein to take it to his next level. We promote whatever works.

If you prefer anonymity, that is fine also. I've helped build some impressive high school programs and for some reason high school age girls get MTM faster given the boys want to slug the ball while the girls respect feel and instinct much more and we really emphasize ball rotation before we teach them to then flatten out their trajectory and take spin off the ball but always measuring and weighing the risks. Email me and I will personally show you how to find a good coach wherever you are that will appreciate how quickly your daughter will start with a good foundation. Best of luck whatever you decide.

 

[PMChambers]

I would not recommend videos but a good instructor instead.

+1

Even group coaching is good initially. Where I think the video courses shine is fixing specific issues or expand your game. I really like Salzenstein (Sp?) free clips on youtube. They're only 3 to 5 minutes an aim to improve 1 point. Never tried his full training videos as I'm tight and have a coach.

I watched a video training course last night and it has horrible in it's perfection, showing exact biomechanics in my view does not help. There's too much to absorb and learning does not work that way, unless you're using it to compare you're vids of your mechanics, for comparison. Wegner is nice simple compact mechanics.

From what I get from Wegner is he teaches a very compact swing, which helps to simplify the strokes making them easier to initially learn. I think some of the comments about his training are picking on his descriptions rather than his mechanics as he really does not do a great deal different than other coaches teaching a "modern" game except he shorten strokes even further and hit's more open.

 

[teachestennis]

+1

Even group coaching is good initially. Where I think the video courses shine is fixing specific issues or expand your game. I really like Salzenstein (Sp?) free clips on youtube. They're only 3 to 5 minutes an aim to improve 1 point. Never tried his full training videos as I'm tight and have a coach.

I watched a video training course last night and it has horrible in it's perfection, showing exact biomechanics in my view does not help. There's too much to absorb and learning does not work that way, unless you're using it to compare you're vids of your mechanics, for comparison. Wegner is nice simple compact mechanics.

From what I get from Wegner is he teaches a very compact swing, which helps to simplify the strokes making them easier to initially learn. I think some of the comments about his training are picking on his descriptions rather than his mechanics as he really does not do a great deal different than other coaches teaching a "modern" game except he shorten strokes even further and hit's more open.

This is a good description of Wegner's MTM. MTM simplifies strokes down to one basic mechanic: from the ball to the shoulder, emphasizing the bicep as the first muscle to connect with and develop feel to the ball at impact. For years, Oscar was very ahead of everyone in realizing that hitting up and across the ball was the primary way to apply force with a wrap finish built in (up on the shoulder at first) to allow the larger muscles to connect to the ball using what we today call angular momentum or the "coil" or "unit turn."

A primary axiom of MTM is that beginners must be taught open stance forehands in the beginning stages because open stance is aligned with feel and prevents overuse of linear momentum which Oscar feels with conviction, even more so after 40 years plus of teaching, that overemphasis on (linear momentum) has ruined USA tennis development. MTM is not stance dependent, but believes that the optimal FH for feel and control is open stance but that a closed stance FH may be hit but with an understood risk in that the margin of error is smaller and that compensations must be made to maintain the largest margin of error. This is why pros swing their hips, what Nick B. calls the recovery step on the closed stance 2HBH.


I also believe that because the open stance 2HBH is not taught primarily as the first 2HB to beginners, that overemphasis on the 2HBH is one of the contributing factors to lack of US player development at the higher junior levels. Serena has stated without a doubt her open stance BH is her primary weapon and her stats showing errors on 2HB open vs closed would show why. I notice when I teach the open stance 2HB as a primary BH that it decreases error rates on the BH side though many of my players may hit winners from a closed stance 2HBH, especially if they see an opening to flatten out a shot a bit.

Is he a great deal different than coaches today? I would say that much of entire field of USA advanced tennis is moving towards his tenets, though they may rename it. Brett Hobden adopted much of his tenets. I find nothing new in John Yandell's, Brian Gordon's and Rick Macci's BEST system they just announced that I did not know physiologically or biomechanically from MTM. There is nothing in BEST that I did not know in 2004 once I met with Oscar and he explained to the best St. Louis coaches why pros are the teachers and that there is nothing new in today's players that pros did not use 100 years ago except maybe the Straight Elbow Arm Hitting Structure which when I go to the Tennis Hall of Fame before publication of the Real History of USA Tennis Instruction I would not be surprised if I find evidence of it a century ago.

What teaching breakthroughs have really occcured? I will name who I think evidence shows are real tennis pioneers in the upcoming book. I do show deference to those who thought outside the box and did things that were not running with the herd.

 

[Public-courts]

Thank you for the advice. In an ideal world I would put my child in lessons or group lessons, but because of time restraints, distance and the fact that a high school girl doesn't want to risk being seen as silly, we will try the wegner videos. Success for us will be if she enjoys going out and hitting a ball.
I did buy a selection of the Wegner videos; though I haven't worked my way through all of them I was struck by several things:

Because the videos are old he seems, oddly enough, to be both ahead of his time and behind the times at the same time. I'm not sure when they were filmed but short shorts were the men's fashion. During the short shorts era I don't know how many pros were teaching short take back, open stance, and across the ball (all tenants of his). There are other videos,however, where I am left shaking my head--I think there's got to be more extension on a forehand, for example.

I do like the simplicity that he offers to a non professional whose teaching their own child. And finally, I have found if there's a stroke I am struggling with, I try a Wegner tip and it often does seem to help my stroke--both my volleys and half volleys are much improved .

 

[5263]

Because the videos are old he seems, oddly enough, to be both ahead of his time and behind the times at the same time. I'm not sure when they were filmed but short shorts were the men's fashion. During the short shorts era I don't know how many pros were teaching short take back, open stance, and across the ball (all tenants of his). There are other videos,however, where I am left shaking my head--I think there's got to be more extension on a forehand, for example.

I do like the simplicity that he offers to a non professional whose teaching their own child. And finally, I have found if there's a stroke I am struggling with, I try a Wegner tip and it often does seem to help my stroke--both my volleys and half volleys are much improved .

Well be patient because like you, there were several things that were so different than I was used to, I figured to be al a carte with things too. Over the years, almost everything has become quite clear as I understood and tried things more. People seem to forget that Oscar was a tour player who spent time with many of the best ever and taught nearly side by side with Pancho quite a bit. Lots to learn in his position if you had the head for it and he did.

 

[Public-courts]

As long as I am prescribing to Wegner al a carte, today I tried his backhand slice technique--it was like butter! slicing through and across, waiting on the ball.

 

[PMChambers]

If you want a good slice technique check out the Federer ultra slow-mo on youtube. It's probably similar to what Wegner is showing. It makes slice a much faster more offensive shot, slicing across the ball. Currently not many players are using extreme semi-western or western grips which was when under spin worked extremely well as it kept the ball bellow the hitting zone, so slicing across the ball still changes up the look and works well against lazy foot foot as it moves the ball sideways, lower and slower, but does not sit the ball up as much or as susceptible to floating long. All the top 10 use slice as change up regularly.