Which win would have been the greater legacy builder? Nadal winning AO 2012 or Federer winning W 2019?

Which is it?


  • Total voters
    37

Hitman

Bionic Poster
Nadal beating the two HC GOATs back to back, one of them at his peak on his very own court that he is the GOAT of

or

Federer beating two GOAT contenders, both 5-6 years younger than him, back to to back, while he is almost 38 years old.
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
Fed Wimbledon 2019

Nadal winning that would be incredible for 2012 but not historically. He would be another wawrinka who beat Djokovic at his home. And Nadal has 2 wins at usopen. He owns fed at ao.

The 2019 win would be greatest win ever.
 

Razer

G.O.A.T.
Whats the big deal about AO 2012 ? It adds nothing to Nadal's legacy, a guy with 2 titles or 3 at a slam are pretty much similar...

Wimbledon 2019 would have been truly great for sure... but Fed was still not gonna have the record for most slams today... so that sucks.
 
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nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
Question should be wimby 2008 or 2019

And answer would finally change to wimby 2008 fed allowed rafa to beat him at home
 

Turning Pro

Hall of Fame
Equal. Fed Wimby 19 would be incredible and seal his legacy no matter what at 38 years old.

BUT, Nadal would have been the only player to defeat him in an AO final and at his near peak and means his very impressive 11-7 slam h2h would be be 12-6 and lead Nole 3-2 in hc slams.
 

rigged

Semi-Pro
2019 would have probably guaranteed Fed as the unanymous greatest grass player in history even if Djokovic would've reached 10W titles.
2012 would've just represent a strong argument against the ones who say Nadal slams H2H is greatly inflated by clay.
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
2019 would have probably guaranteed Fed as the unanymous greatest grass player in history even if Djokovic would've reached 10W titles.
2012 would've just represent a strong argument against the ones who say Nadal slams H2H is greatly inflated by clay.
While 2008 would have done the most

7 consecutive Wimbledon titles
Never lost to Nadal on grass
21-21 slam tally
Slam h2h improved where Nadal wins AO and rg and fed defends wimby

That would also restrict Nadal to 1 Wimbledon title and that too in absence of fedkovic and completely end Nadal's goat debates.
 

Djokovic2011

Bionic Poster
Equal. Fed Wimby 19 would be incredible and seal his legacy no matter what at 38 years old.

BUT, Nadal would have been the only player to defeat him in an AO final and at his near peak and means his very impressive 11-7 slam h2h would be be 12-6 and lead Nole 3-2 in hc slams.
Such a shame they only ever met twice at the AO. :(
 

rigged

Semi-Pro
While 2008 would have done the most

7 consecutive Wimbledon titles
Never lost to Nadal on grass
21-21 slam tally
Slam h2h improved where Nadal wins AO and rg and fed defends wimby

That would also restrict Nadal to 1 Wimbledon title and that too in absence of fedkovic and completely end Nadal's goat debates.
I agree, but OP asked only about 2012 and 2019.
 

metsman

Talk Tennis Guru
2012 AO by far. Matches where both are in their prime are far more important to legacy. A match like 2019 Wimby with both guys way past their prime is only good for internet debates.
 

Backspin1183

Talk Tennis Guru
Fed winning Wimbledon at 38 would have been super impressive.

If you're a Djokovic fan, you don't wanna give AO'12 to Nadal. That would have changed everything.
 

uscwang

Hall of Fame
Nadal beating the two HC GOATs back to back, one of them at his peak on his very own court that he is the GOAT of

or

Federer beating two GOAT contenders, both 5-6 years younger than him, back to to back, while he is almost 38 years old.
Probably 2019 WB. It could have changed the ending of the Big 3 marathon.

But 2012 AO has its significance. With it, Nadal would have tied with Novak at 23 major titles now, would have had triple career GS, and would have completed GS against both Novak and Fed. Among the Big 3, only Novak has completed GS against the other two. Fed has never beaten Nadal at RG. Nadal has never beaten Novak at AO. I guess I've just made the point for 2012 AO to be more important.
 
Nadal beating the two HC GOATs back to back, one of them at his peak on his very own court that he is the GOAT of

or

Federer beating two GOAT contenders, both 5-6 years younger than him, back to to back, while he is almost 38 years old.
Neither, Nadal and Federer transcended the sport like no other players have done, maybe Alcaraz might, but legacy wise, Nadal and Federer scaled the peak of the legacy mountain.
 

Neptune

Hall of Fame
Neither, Nadal and Federer transcended the sport like no other players have done, maybe Alcaraz might, but legacy wise, Nadal and Federer scaled the peak of the legacy mountain.

Nah, the duo was helped so much by the powers, but they still ended up as the GOAT's background, lol.
 
Nadal would have been able to claim very high level victories over Fedole in their primes at their undisputed best slam venues while defending himself against that charge at RG. he would also have snapped the 6 loss streak against Djokovic earlier. it's AO '12.
 

ND-13

Legend
2012 AO by far. Matches where both are in their prime are far more important to legacy. A match like 2019 Wimby with both guys way past their prime is only good for internet debates.

This group is known for recency bias and cannot remember more than 3 years. Futile bringing 2012 now even though it is only the second year since tennis started
 

GabeT

G.O.A.T.
This group is known for recency bias and cannot remember more than 3 years. Futile bringing 2012 now even though it is only the second year since tennis started
December 2010. A new sport was born. Tennis, they called it.
 
Should have added Djokovic RG 2013, would have been the first to beat Nadal in five-sets on clay and in his prime as well, broken his RG loss streak to Nadal until 2015, and Ferrer a decent final win.
 

Clay lover

Legend
In terms of standalone significance probably W2019 as it would cement Fed's W legacy probably straight away and also adding to a bigger total is always more significant than 1->2 because of the difficulty.

But in terms of what it implies I'd probably choose AO 2012 or even W 2018 for Nadal. When Nadal came into his prime on non-clay surfaces in 2010 people predicted him to be the successor of Federer in terms of dominance only for Djoko 2.0 to emerge and best him not only at two non-clay slams and even in Masters on clay. Taking Djokovic down the following year on his favourite surface after a year of difficulty figuring him out would symbolize wiping the slate clean and give Nadal the confidence boost he needs as primarily a momentum-based player on non-clay surfaces.

W 2018 indicated a chance to once again redeem himself in a slightly different way. After basically a 2-year drought in 2015 and 2016 Nadal found the resurgence he needed to enter the AO final, and win the FO and USO. He carried that form into 2018 and despite the mild injury in AO 2018 looked to be in decent form in FO and W. On top of that, he had always been looking to regain his confidence on grass after losses to journeymen players in Rosol, Darcis, Brown and 2nd-tier players like Nick (sorry Nick you are second-tier) and Muller. A win against Djokovic and probably Anderson would mean he could continue to ride that momentum and also prove himself on grass once again.

For Fed the standalone value of 2019 was high but he was never the momentum-based player Nadal was and also was in the twilight of his career - it would have been good to win it but I wouldn't have been indicative of bigger things to come.
 

pirhaksar

Professional
Should be RF in 2019. The grass goat at 37/38 rolling back the years for one last great triumph, stuff for the movies…Novak is facing something similar now with Raz.
 

ConnorH

Rookie
Wimbledon 2019 is BIG. That loss basically disqualified Federer from any GOAT conversation.

But AO 2012 Final is the GREATEST match of all time, in the eyes of most tennis ATGs and professionals, and it is the match that qualifies the GOAT. (The Wimbledon 2008 Final was regarded as the greatest match by tennis amateurs and media for a purpose).
 
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Mustard

Bionic Poster
Whats the big deal about AO 2012 ? It adds nothing to Nadal's legacy, a guy with 2 titles or 3 at a slam are pretty much similar...
It would have meant a win over Djokovic at the Australian Open, but I know what you mean.

Federer's 2019 Wimbledon final loss must be much more haunting, even more so for his fans than for him personally. I doubt Federer himself gives it much thought nowadays as he has a good life and he did win a lot in his tennis career anyway.
 

Sport

G.O.A.T.
It would have meant a win over Djokovic at the Australian Open, but I know what you mean.

Federer's 2019 Wimbledon final loss must be much more haunting, even more so for his fans than for him personally. I doubt Federer himself gives it much thought nowadays as he has a good life and he did win a lot in his tennis career anyway.
You can bet your money Fed will always think about it, no matter how rich he gets.

It is the nature of humankind to think about what you lack instead of appreciating what you have.
 

Rosstour

G.O.A.T.
Fed would have been 38 and back to back slam wins over his 2 career rivals and would have cemented himself a little higher . Would have to be his. 40-15? Crazy

Yeah. No one has ever beaten Djokovic and Nadal at a Slam. No one

Would have been his first time doing that, exorcising both demons consecutively. Would have been bery hard to argue he wasn't a better player than both of them, if he could have gone through both at nearly 38
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
Yeah. No one has ever beaten Djokovic and Nadal at a Slam. No one

Would have been his first time doing that, exorcising both demons consecutively. Would have been bery hard to argue he wasn't a better player than both of them, if he could have gone through both at nearly 38
Wawrinka did
 

Razer

G.O.A.T.
It would have meant a win over Djokovic at the Australian Open, but I know what you mean.

Federer's 2019 Wimbledon final loss must be much more haunting, even more so for his fans than for him personally. I doubt Federer himself gives it much thought nowadays as he has a good life and he did win a lot in his tennis career anyway.

Yeah... W2019 would have meant something special because Djok and Nadal are much younger and so at 38 doing over them would have forever told people that it was the age gap which prevented Fed from emerging on top of the count....losing that haunts the fans forever and it should.... We just know that Fed was the best of the 3 and yet he looks to be 3rd ....terrible
 

metsman

Talk Tennis Guru
Yeah... W2019 would have meant something special because Djok and Nadal are much younger and so at 38 doing over them would have forever told people that it was the age gap which prevented Fed from emerging on top of the count....losing that haunts the fans forever and it should.... We just know that Fed was the best of the 3 and yet he looks to be 3rd ....terrible
He's 3rd in slams, and would still be 3rd in slams if he'd won it so that wouldn't change anything, just like AO 17 doesn't change anything in the eyes of the bean counters.
If Djokovic was at 21 or 22 you might have a point, but still that's strictly public perception among casuals.
 

pirhaksar

Professional
In some ways RF losing Wimby 2019, cruel as it was considering he was the better player and thoroughly deserved to win was probably the better outcome for fan wars as far as I am concerned. The smug arrogant RF fanbase came down a notch since then and are now generally and reluctantly accepting that the big 3 is a single tier and there is no single goat or not much to separate them etc (which actually is a sane position). Had Novak lost that match I have no doubt that the current position of a few clown RF fans here who continue to disrespect Novak would be the majority RF fan position by far… that match was a win for the back benchers in class, the least popular dude in class. Despite those thoughts, do believe that RF is the grass goat and in some ways Raz stopping Novak from 8 wimbys twice now is fair as that record is fittingly with RF.
 
Yeah. No one has ever beaten Djokovic and Nadal at a Slam. No one

Would have been his first time doing that, exorcising both demons consecutively. Would have been bery hard to argue he wasn't a better player than both of them, if he could have gone through both at nearly 38
Imagine if Berdych had won 2010 Wimbledon, would have been wild scenes, or 2012 AO, facing Almagro, Nadal, Federer and Djokovic.
 

Razer

G.O.A.T.
He's 3rd in slams, and would still be 3rd in slams if he'd won it so that wouldn't change anything, just like AO 17 doesn't change anything in the eyes of the bean counters.
If Djokovic was at 21 or 22 you might have a point, but still that's strictly public perception among casuals.

For bean counters it doesn't matter anyway and I must tell you day by day bean counters are increasing, especially the public who never saw Big 3 play in their primes will always do bean counting and the population of that crowd is ever increasing and a time will come when it will become 90+%. As soon as Fed lost the record I quickly accepted he lost because that's the only narrative moving forward.

However, AO 2017 is very pivotal, that win told us that Fed always had it him to pwn Rafa if not for his racquet, gave us a lot of comfort. Wimbledon 2019 could have been the second slam which put a big dent on the subjective discussions. These are slams for the people who've seen the Big 3 Prime for Prime, otherwise nothing was gonna matter in the count, in the end Djokovic was always destined to end up on top as the ultimate winner because he had the mental toughness to force his age advantage on Fed...even that takes a lot....

Then again, if we look at life then perhaps some ways we can still say that Fed enjoyed the things thats most important. He was worshipped at a time when you actually can be worshipped, I mean you are only as relevant as long as your are playing so if he was the ruler of the tour for a better part of 2 decades when he was on it then it was special. Novak can today look Fed+Nadal in the eye in ways that they cannot to him, but Fed enjoyed the adulation which neither of the 2 ever had or will, sure it feels good to know that you won in the end but the process of being booed for 2 decades, hated, doubted, second guessed, insulted etc etc is terrible.
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
For bean counters it doesn't matter anyway and I must tell you day by day bean counters are increasing, especially the public who never saw Big 3 play in their primes will always do bean counting and the population of that crowd is ever increasing and a time will come when it will become 90+%. As soon as Fed lost the record I quickly accepted he lost because that's the only narrative moving forward.

However, AO 2017 is very pivotal, that win told us that Fed always had it him to pwn Rafa if not for his racquet, gave us a lot of comfort. Wimbledon 2019 could have been the second slam which put a big dent on the subjective discussions. These are slams for the people who've seen the Big 3 Prime for Prime, otherwise nothing was gonna matter in the count, in the end Djokovic was always destined to end up on top as the ultimate winner because he had the mental toughness to force his age advantage on Fed...even that takes a lot....

Then again, if we look at life then perhaps some ways we can still say that Fed enjoyed the things thats most important. He was worshipped at a time when you actually can be worshipped, I mean you are only as relevant as long as your are playing so if he was the ruler of the tour for a better part of 2 decades when he was on it then it was special. Novak can today look Fed+Nadal in the eye in ways that they cannot to him, but Fed enjoyed the adulation which neither of them 2 ever had or will, sure it feels good to know that you won in the end but the process of being booed for 2 decades, hated, doubted, second guessed, insulted etc etc is terrible.
:D
 
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